Is it possible to lose salvation?

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LoveYeshua

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Jesus didnt give that "commission" to Paul.
Paul is a "chosen vessel" for a different situation........"the time of the GENTILES"..
So, Paul was not "making disciples"......>He was "preaching the Good news".. "the Gospel of the Grace of God" so that sinners could BELIEVE and become "Sons-Daughters" of God........not just "disciples".
When Jesus told the 11 to make "disciples" he told them about water baptism.
There is no water baptism in Paul's Gospel of the "Grace of God".

Jesus never gave two different gospels—one for His apostles and another for Paul. There is only one gospel, and Jesus said in Matthew 24:14, “And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.” His gospel was the gospel of the kingdom and obedience to God. When He gave the Great Commission in Matthew 28:19–20, He said, “Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you.” That included keeping His commandments. Jesus never told anyone to stop making disciples and only preach about His death. He commanded them to teach everything He commanded, and His commandments were never abolished.

Paul, however, often wrote things that sound different. He focused heavily on the cross and justification, saying in Colossians 2:14 that Christ was “having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.” Many wrongly assume this means the Ten Commandments were abolished, but that is not true. The phrase “handwriting of requirements” refers to the record of our sins—the legal debt that stood against us—not the moral law of God. Our sins and the penalty of death were nailed to the cross, not God’s commandments. If the Ten Commandments were abolished, there would be no standard of sin, yet Paul himself said in Romans 7:7, “I would not have known sin except through the law.” Jesus also declared in Matthew 5:17–18, “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.” Heaven and earth are still here, so God’s law still stands. Jesus even warned that anyone who breaks the least of these commandments and teaches others to do so will be called least in the kingdom of heaven (Matthew 5:19).

Paul spoke much of grace and faith but gave little emphasis to following Jesus’ teachings. Jesus, on the other hand, made obedience central. He said in John 14:15, “If you love Me, keep My commandments,” and again in John 15:10, “If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.” On the last day, we will not be judged by Paul’s words but by the words of Christ Himself, for Jesus said in John 12:48, The word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.”

Those who think obedience is unnecessary should hear Jesus’ warning in Matthew 7:21–23: “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven… And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’ This is serious. Paul never died for us; Christ did. Jesus is the Teacher, the Judge, and the King. He said His gospel will go to all nations and then the end will come, not that it would be replaced by a new gospel focused only on the cross.

There is only one gospel, and it is the gospel Jesus preached—the gospel of the kingdom and obedience to God. In Matthew 13:41–42 He warned that in the end, The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, and will cast them into the furnace of fire.” Anyone teaching a message that excuses lawlessness is in grave danger. The words of Christ, not Paul, will decide every soul’s destiny.
 
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nedsk

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Jesus never gave two different gospels—one for His apostles and another for Paul. There is only one gospel, and Jesus said in Matthew 24:14, “And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.” His gospel was the gospel of the kingdom and obedience to God. When He gave the Great Commission in Matthew 28:19–20, He said, “Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you.” That included keeping His commandments. Jesus never told anyone to stop making disciples and only preach about His death. He commanded them to teach everything He commanded, and His commandments were never abolished.

Paul, however, often wrote things that sound different. He focused heavily on the cross and justification, saying in Colossians 2:14 that Christ was “having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.” Many wrongly assume this means the Ten Commandments were abolished, but that is not true. The phrase “handwriting of requirements” refers to the record of our sins—the legal debt that stood against us—not the moral law of God. Our sins and the penalty of death were nailed to the cross, not God’s commandments. If the Ten Commandments were abolished, there would be no standard of sin, yet Paul himself said in Romans 7:7, “I would not have known sin except through the law.” Jesus also declared in Matthew 5:17–18, “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.” Heaven and earth are still here, so God’s law still stands. Jesus even warned that anyone who breaks the least of these commandments and teaches others to do so will be called least in the kingdom of heaven (Matthew 5:19).

Paul spoke much of grace and faith but gave little emphasis to following Jesus’ teachings. Jesus, on the other hand, made obedience central. He said in John 14:15, “If you love Me, keep My commandments,” and again in John 15:10, “If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.” On the last day, we will not be judged by Paul’s words but by the words of Christ Himself, for Jesus said in John 12:48, The word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.”

Those who think obedience is unnecessary should hear Jesus’ warning in Matthew 7:21–23: “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven… And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’ This is serious. Paul never died for us; Christ did. Jesus is the Teacher, the Judge, and the King. He said His gospel will go to all nations and then the end will come, not that it would be replaced by a new gospel focused only on the cross.

There is only one gospel, and it is the gospel Jesus preached—the gospel of the kingdom and obedience to God. In Matthew 13:41–42 He warned that in the end, The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, and will cast them into the furnace of fire.” Anyone teaching a message that excuses lawlessness is in grave danger. The words of Christ, not Paul, will decide every soul’s destiny.
Some of these folks prefer Paul to Jesus.
 
M

Muna

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Some of these folks prefer Paul to Jesus.
Jesus also said,

John 13:20 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.
 

amigo de christo

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LOL
That's exactly what he said !
He learned from another person.

I also hear that we're living in the tribulation period.
I don't know...
I get to eat every day and I'm wearing pretty new shoes.
Doesn't seem like the tribulation to me.
Maybe Jesus wasn't very precise in explaining how bad it would be??
Yeah. Sad stuff.

Amen to that!

The CC got some right and a lot wrong.
Have you ever read the Early Church Fathers?
These would be those that were taught by the Aposltes.
As close as we're going to get to speaking to Jesus.
I found it very helpful.
They mostly agree with what is written in the NT.
I have read some of their letters .
THE CC got some right and a lot wrong
THAT pretty much is now the story of about all , almost all even within christendom .
But we both know that is how the deciever decieves .
Show me one time the serpent , later the devil himself did not quoate A TRUTH
and yet used that truth to promote a lie .
Ponder on that for a while my friend . THEN know and understand , as you probably already do ,
MARVEL NOT if satans ministirs can wear wool .
Would you like two examples of how even the serpent that ol diablo can quoate a truth to support a lie .
Number one .
WHEN the serepent told eve Ye shall become as gods knowing good and evil , THAT WAS TRUE and EVEN GOD says the same thing later . BUT HE USED THAT LINE in order to make her beleive a lie . YE SHALL NOT SURELY DIE
all that is gonna happen to ya is you will become as gods to know good and evil .
WELL they did become as such , BUT WE ALSO BOTH KNOW THEY DIED .
Now forward to also when satan TEMPTED CHRIST .
TEMPTATION . LEAP OFF THIS CLIFF . For it IS WRITTEN HE WILL GIVE HIS ANGELS CHARGE OVER THEE .
BUT my oh my how he used a truth which he twisted to imply IT WAS OKAY TO TEMPT GOD in the first place
BY JUMPING OFF the cliff .
PEOPLE DO NOT KNOW how to rightly divide the scrips at all . WHY
because most dont even KNOW HIM , they have come to another jesus , another god all together .
AND of course i know some might beleive and are simply in danger of getting caught up into this dissumlation .
AND ITS WHY I CORRECT . ITS WHY i correct . KNOWING full well
THIS , many will reject the correction . BUT the sheep , THEY WILL HEAR .
AS DID EVEN PETER HEAR PAUL , as did barnabas and others hear the correction and REPENTED .
But many are not his sheep . Its not for me to judge them , as in condemn them .
BUT IT IS FOR ME TO CORRECT ANY and all error , for i desire good for all and that none perish .
KNOWN TO GOD is who are HIS . I can only SPEAK THE TRUTH and do my part .
WHO so ever hears TRUTH amen , who so ever might be in error and repents amen
and who so ever rejects ITS ON THEM . but at least out of love for them I DID CORRECT .
 

amigo de christo

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Some of these folks prefer Paul to Jesus.
OH i understand why you would say that .
Just as one could say many prefer paul to CHRIST
or paul to peter
or etc .
BUT ITS NOT PETER they loved
ITS NOT paul they loved
ITS NOT CHRIST they loved
IT WAS THE VERSION that men preached TO THEM THEY LOVED .
MANY WILL WAIL in unbelieveable torments on the day of the LORD .
BECAUSE I KNOW with no doubt
that NOT A APOSTEL ONE contradicted EVEN ONE WEE TINY WORD OF JESUS HIMSELF
NOR ONE ANOTHER . but men love what please their flesh
whether its the false pauline or false peter , false christ .
PERHAPS NOW you might be seeing exactly WHY i been saying , HEY FOLKS ITS BIBLE TIME .
cause men are fleecing THEY HECK OUT OF ALL DENOMINATIONS , THE RCC IS TOTALLY BANKRUPT
the polticians are dead and bankrukpt . BUT NOT GOD . NOT HIS WORDS , NOT HIS TRUTH . ITS BIBLE TIME in the house .
haters will hate the truth that exposes their sin
BUT SHEEP WILL LOVE TRUTH and those who do rebuke and correct them .
ITS BIBLE TIME , BIBLE TIME and BIBLE TIME IN THE HOUSE .
 
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amigo de christo

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But they didn't even teach differently.
BINGO .
so now go and read what i wrote to him .
The peter that contradicts paul and the paul that contradicts peter
and Christ and etc
ITS THE ONE INVENTED OF MEN . NOW YOU SEE WHY I BEEN CRYING so often with such urgency
WE GOT TO GET THIS PEOPLE into the BIBLE
i see more false versions of jesus , of a pual , of a peter and etc
CAUSE MEN BE THE ONES DOING THIS AND THAT HAVE DONE THIS .
 

nedsk

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Jesus also said,

John 13:20 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.
And? None of that means there aren't some people who prefer Paul to Jesus or any of the other people that Jesus sent like James who says faith is completed by works.
 

nedsk

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OH i understand why you would say that .
Just as one could say many prefer paul to CHRIST
or paul to peter
or etc .
BUT ITS NOT PETER they loved
ITS NOT paul they loved
ITS NOT CHRIST they loved
IT WAS THE VERSION that men preached TO THEM THEY LOVED .
MANY WILL WAIL in unbelieveable torments on the day of the LORD .
BECAUSE I KNOW with no doubt
that NOT A APOSTEL ONE contradicted EVEN ONE WEE TINY WORD OF JESUS HIMSELF
NOR ONE ANOTHER . but men love what please their flesh
whether its the false pauline or false peter , false christ .
PERHAPS NOW you might be seeing exactly WHY i been saying , HEY FOLKS ITS BIBLE TIME .
cause men are fleecing THEY HECK OUT OF ALL DENOMINATIONS , THE RCC IS TOTALLY BANKRUPT
the polticians are dead and bankrukpt . BUT NOT GOD . NOT HIS WORDS , NOT HIS TRUTH . ITS BIBLE TIME in the house .
haters will hate the truth that exposes their sin
BUT SHEEP WILL LOVE TRUTH and those who do rebuke and correct them .
ITS BIBLE TIME , BIBLE TIME and BIBLE TIME IN THE HOUSE .
The Catholic Church is was existed long before the appearance of the looney little monk. In the earliest days of the Christian Church they taught what you describe as "totally bankrupt". I have little tolerance for you people.
 

amigo de christo

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And? None of that means there aren't some people who prefer Paul to Jesus or any of the other people that Jesus sent like James who says faith is completed by works.
There are many that prefer paul to JESUS or james to paul or paul to james
BUT You aint seeing something .
SO allow me to show you what it is .
THEY LOVE the version of paul , or of peter , or of james , or yes even of JESUS
WHICH TWISTED WORDS OF THEM ALL to fit a lie .
Because what i say and write to you , i now say and write to all
NOT A APOSTLE ONE contradicted each other or CHRIST .
ITS MEN and people just pick and choose their vending machine fast food version of whateever paul
whatever jesus etc They desire to sit under . I TOLD ya MEN will do and heed that which best pleases them .
AND I also told you BUT THE SHEEP WILL HEED AND DO that which PLEASES GOD ALL MIGHTY .
TIME for all to make their choice .
AND OH YEAH ITS BIBLE TIME IN THE HOUSE .
 
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amigo de christo

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The Catholic Church is was existed long before the appearance of the looney little monk. In the earliest days of the Christian Church they taught what you describe as "totally bankrupt". I have little tolerance for you people.
Yeah and you seem to forget something
That even in the days of the apostels you had men leading and trying to teach that were false .
I DONT care HOW OLD the RCC IS
In fact i dont care what any denomination cliams .
ALL I CARE ABOUT is , IS IT TRUE . And the RCC is bankrupt of the TRUTH as are many within that prostestant realm .
GOD gave torah to the jews , THEY were in fact the FIRST to recieve such
BUT IT DARN SURE DONT MEAN their leaders WERE TRUE . WE better WATCH OUT .
My advice remains .
AND even though i desire only good for you , only good for you
You nor any gonna silence my mouth .
 
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Muna

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They were dividing against one another using Jesus Christ to do so also

1 Cr 1:12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
 

nedsk

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Yeah and you seem to forget something
That even in the days of the apostels you had men leading and trying to teach that were false .
I DONT care HOW OLD the RCC IS
In fact i dont care what any denomination cliams .
ALL I CARE ABOUT is , IS IT TRUE . And the RCC is bankrupt of the TRUTH as are many within that prostestant realm .
GOD gave torah to the jews , THEY were in fact the FIRST to recieve such
BUT IT DARN SURE DONT MEAN their leaders WERE TRUE . WE better WATCH OUT .
My advice remains .
AND even though i desire only good for you , only good for you
You nor any gonna silence my mouth .
You dont get to decide what's true. You're the last person I would listen to. Heretics like you have led people astray for centuries.
 

nedsk

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They were dividing against one another using Jesus Christ to do so also

1 Cr 1:12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
I have cited other passages from Scripture and actually had people tell me, "Yeah but Paul says,..." as if that decides the question.
 
M

Muna

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I have cited other passages from Scripture and actually had people tell me, "Yeah but Paul says,..." as if that decides the question.
They were probrably trying to recconcile the two and looking for someone with understanding to help them in this. Since even Peter said that some of the things Paul writes are hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest.
 

nedsk

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They were probrably trying to recconcile the two and looking for someone with understanding to help them in this. Since even Peter said that some of the things Paul writes are hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest.
They were probrably trying to recconcile the two and looking for someone with understanding to help them in this. Since even Peter said that some of the things Paul writes are hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest.
Well that doesn't make Paul's writings superior and if they can't be so easily understood how can people know they have an adequate understanding of his writings even today?
 

Rich R

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Who can know?
We each have a different opinion.

Look like Sola Scriptura doesn't function very well.
Did I mention the dark glass we all look through (1 Cor 13:12)? That would explain the difference opinions.

It won't be until Jesus comes back until we know which one of us is correct (or maybe we're both wrong).
 
M

Muna

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Well that doesn't make Paul's writings superior and if they can't be so easily understood how can people know they have an adequate understanding of his writings even today?
Not at all, I wasn't there to hear the conversation, I can only guess, maybe they feel they don't fully understand the things that were given to them who were to make them understand

As Paul said,

1 Cr 4:1 Let a man so account of us, as of the ministers of Christ, and stewards of the mysteries of God.

Since He also says,

Jerm 3:15 And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding.

These would feed the sheep with understanding (feed my sheep)

1 Cr 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
 

nedsk

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Not at all, I wasn't there to hear the conversation, I can only guess, maybe they feel they don't fully understand the things that were given to them who were to make them understand

As Paul said,

1 Cr 4:1 Let a man so account of us, as of the ministers of Christ, and stewards of the mysteries of God.

Since He also says,

Jerm 3:15 And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding.

These would feed the sheep with understanding (feed my sheep)

1 Cr 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
But we have 20,000+ denominations with different "understanding".

The early church fathers sure understood things differently then some Christians today and they were regarded as servants of God
 
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nedsk

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Did I mention the dark glass we all look through (1 Cor 13:12)? That would explain the difference opinions.

It won't be until Jesus comes back until we know which one of us is correct (or maybe we're both wrong).
It doesn't really says dark glass does it? It says we look through the glass darkly. Not quite the same