When Christ returns, we shall all be changed, including heaven and earth, actually all things are changed out for something better.

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Spiritual Israelite

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Revelation 1:7 does not exist on its own; it is quoting Zechariah 12:10, whose context specifically limits that mourning of the tribes to those "IN JERUSALEM" - not the entire world.
No, it is not quoting Zechariah 12:10. Do you never look at context? It seems not. The context of Zechariah 12:10 is in relation to people mourning the death of Christ. And Jesus quoted the verse in John 19:37 in direct relation to those who pierced Him, so it has nothing to do with 70 AD or the future return of Christ.

John 19:34 But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water. 35 And he that saw it bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe. 36 For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken. 37 And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced.

Mourning His death and witnessing Jesus being crucified is the context of Zechariah 12:10, but is NOT the context of Revelation 1:7. The context of Revelation 1:7 is people wailing in fear at seeing Jesus because of His impending wrath upon His enemies.
 
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3 Resurrections

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He goes out of his way to deny the truth. Scripture is clear that Jesus would return only once and it most certainly was not in 70 AD. His 3 comings of Christ and 3 resurrections theory belongs in the garbage bin.
You are inventing a "one return ONLY", which is an artificial limitation that is never stated as such in Scripture. Since you were not alive in AD 70 to disprove Christ's second coming return back then, your statement has no ground to stand on, since all the Scripture authors contradict you.

I am not the only person who has recognized THREE comings of Christ, with THREE group bodily resurrection events. This has already been written about by an Ernest Hampden-Cook back in 1894, whose book introduction states his intentions to prove from all the Scripture testimony both a future Third Advent as well as an AD 70 Second Advent.

No, it is not quoting Zechariah 12:10. Do you never look at context? It seems not. The context of Zechariah 12:10 is in relation to people mourning the death of Christ.
The prophecy in Zechariah 12-14 begins with a message dedicated to "the burden of the word of the Lord for Israel...Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem. And IN THAT DAY..." etc., etc.. Zechariah goes on to detail all the multiplied events which would take place "IN THAT DAY" when Judah and Jerusalem was being besieged in the AD 66-70 years - which is not speaking of the crucifixion scene. John used prophetic license to make a double application of this Zech. 12:10 verse for the crucifixion as well as for Christ's return, but originally, Zechariah 12-14 was predicting the AD 66-70 siege years in Judah and Jerusalem when the tribes of Israel would be mourning when they saw the one they had pierced.
 
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WPM

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Revelation 1:7 does not exist on its own; it is quoting Zechariah 12:10, whose context specifically limits that mourning of the tribes to those "IN JERUSALEM" - not the entire world.


The word "also" is NOT THERE - it is inserted in italics, which means the translators are simply adding it by their own choice. You aren't considering this logically. For the sake of argument, let's say that this verse really should be translated as meaning "every eye of everybody in the world shall see Him, and also they who pierced Him". Don't you understand the redundancy of this statement? If everybody in the entire world is already going to simultaneously see Christ's return to the Mount of Olives, then why bother adding those who pierced him, since they are already included in the number of "everybody in the world"? This doesn't even make sense - not even with the "parallelism" theme you are discussing.

In Scripture, the Greek words "tes ges" for "the earth" invariably mean that the author was speaking of "the land of Israel", as opposed to the Gentile nations. The "tribes of the earth" (tes ges) who would be mourning is speaking of the tribes in the land of Israel - not the globe at large. This is especially noticeable in Luke 21:23's prediction of "great distress in the land (tes ges), and wrath upon THIS PEOPLE" - meaning those in Judea who were to flee Judea for the mountains to avoid those first-century disasters.
LOL.

You're full of complete nonsense! It is hard to take you serious. You butcher text after text and original word after original word. You place theological limitations upon the straightforward interpretations of multiple versus and numerous topics, in order to support your error. Your hermeneutics are a joke. No text is safe with you. You cannot be taken serious. All kindreds (or races) does not mean all kindreds (or races), it means the Jews, "earth" does not mean "earth," it means Jerusalem, wholesale destruction of the heavens and earth does not mean wholesale destruction of the heavens and earth, it means a localized destruction of Jerusalem. You are a false prophet that is deceiving people.
 
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WPM

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The word "also" is NOT THERE - it is inserted in italics, which means the translators are simply adding it by their own choice.

It is the main meaning of kai. 540 times it is translated "also":

Mat 3:10, Mat 5:39-40 (2), Mat 6:14, Mat 6:21, Mat 10:4, Mat 12:45, Mat 13:26, Mat 15:3, Mat 15:16, Mat 16:1, Mat 17:12, Mat 18:33, Mat 18:35, Mat 19:3, Mat 19:28, Mat 20:4, Mat 20:7, Mat 22:26-27 (2), Mat 23:26, Mat 23:28, Mat 24:27, Mat 24:37, Mat 24:39, Mat 24:44, Mat 25:11, Mat 25:17, Mat 25:22, Mat 25:41, Mat 25:44, Mat 26:13, Mat 26:35, Mat 26:69, Mat 26:71, Mat 26:73, Mat 27:44, Mat 27:57, Mar 1:19, Mar 2:15, Mar 2:21, Mar 2:26, Mar 2:28, Mar 3:19, Mar 7:18, Mar 8:7, Mar 8:38, Mar 11:25, Mar 12:6, Mar 12:22, Mar 14:9, Mar 14:31, Mar 14:67, Mar 15:31, Mar 15:40-41 (2), Mar 15:43, Luk 1:35-36 (2), Luk 2:4, Luk 2:35, Luk 3:9, Luk 3:12, Luk 3:21, Luk 4:23, Luk 4:41, Luk 4:43, Luk 5:10, Luk 5:36, Luk 5:39, Luk 6:4-6 (3), Luk 6:13-14 (2), Luk 6:16, Luk 6:29 (2), Luk 6:31-34 (4), Luk 6:36, Luk 7:8, Luk 7:49, Luk 8:36, Luk 9:61, Luk 10:1, Luk 10:39, Luk 11:1, Luk 11:4, Luk 11:18, Luk 11:30, Luk 11:34 (2), Luk 11:40, Luk 11:45-46 (2), Luk 11:49, Luk 12:8, Luk 12:34, Luk 12:40, Luk 12:54, Luk 13:8, Luk 14:12 (2), Luk 14:26, Luk 16:1, Luk 16:10 (2), Luk 16:14, Luk 16:22, Luk 16:28, Luk 17:24, Luk 17:26, Luk 17:28, Luk 18:15, Luk 19:9, Luk 19:19, Luk 20:12, Luk 20:31-32 (2), Luk 21:2, Luk 22:20, Luk 22:24, Luk 22:39, Luk 22:56, Luk 22:58-59 (2), Luk 22:68, Luk 23:7, Luk 23:27, Luk 23:32, Luk 23:35-36 (2), Luk 23:38, Luk 23:51, Luk 23:55,
 

WPM

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WPM

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Revelation 1:7 does not exist on its own; it is quoting Zechariah 12:10, whose context specifically limits that mourning of the tribes to those "IN JERUSALEM" - not the entire world.
Is there anything in the inspired texted you can actually interpret correct? You need eyes to see for that to happen. Revelation 1:7 has absolutely nothing to do with Zechariah 12:10. What is talking about the second comment, the other is talking about the cross.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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You are inventing a "one return ONLY", which is an artificial limitation that is never stated as such in Scripture. Since you were not alive in AD 70 to disprove Christ's second coming return back then, your statement has no ground to stand on, since all the Scripture authors contradict you.

I am not the only person who has recognized THREE comings of Christ, with THREE group bodily resurrection events. This has already been written about by an Ernest Hampden-Cook back in 1894, whose book introduction states his intentions to prove from all the Scripture testimony both a future Third Advent as well as an AD 70 Second Advent.


The prophecy in Zechariah 12-14 begins with a message dedicated to "the burden of the word of the Lord for Israel...Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem. And IN THAT DAY..." etc., etc.. Zechariah goes on to detail all the multiplied events which would take place "IN THAT DAY" when Judah and Jerusalem was being besieged in the AD 66-70 years - which is not speaking of the crucifixion scene. John used prophetic license to make a double application of this Zech. 12:10 verse for the crucifixion as well as for Christ's return, but originally, Zechariah 12-14 was predicting the AD 66-70 siege years in Judah and Jerusalem when the tribes of Israel would be mourning when they saw the one they had pierced.
You just completely ignored everything I said. This is pointless. If you want to insist on believing false doctrine, that's your choice, but you have no excuse for believing the nonsense that you believe in. Ask God for wisdom (James 1:5-7).
 

Spiritual Israelite

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Is there anything in the inspired texted you can actually interpret correct? You need eyes to see for that to happen. Revelation 1:7 has absolutely nothing to do with Zechariah 12:10. What is talking about the second comment, the other is talking about the cross.
I'm not aware of any verse of scripture that he interprets correctly. He does say he believes in a future return of Christ, but I wonder which scripture he thinks speaks of that? Regardless, he is obviously very lacking in spiritual discernment. He has this 3 resurrections doctrine all to himself. These lone wolves who have their own doctrines must be desperate for attention or something. And they must be very arrogant to think that God only reveals the truth to them.
 
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3 Resurrections

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It is the main meaning of kai. 540 times it is translated "also":
Good. Then you understand that "kai" has more than just one meaning. "Kai" can be used in an explanatory sense, meaning "namely" or "even", which is the way Revelation 1:7 should be translated in order to match how Zechariah originally prophesied that it would be the tribes of the land of Israel mourning IN JERUSALEM when they looked on Him whom they pierced (which Israelite families and tribes he names for us in Zech. 12:12-13).

I'm not aware of any verse of scripture that he interprets correctly. He does say he believes in a future return of Christ, but I wonder which scripture he thinks speaks of that? Regardless, he is obviously very lacking in spiritual discernment. He has this 3 resurrections doctrine all to himself. These lone wolves who have their own doctrines must be desperate for attention or something. And they must be very arrogant to think that God only reveals the truth to them.
A list of those scriptures which teach a future third coming of Christ are as follows:

•Paul wrote of three bodily resurrection events taking place in a certain "order" in 1 Cor. 15:20-24, one after the other. To begin with, "Christ the First-fruits", second on the list "Afterwards" they that were Christ's at his coming, and third in the list "Then the end, when He shall have delivered up the kingdom to God..."

•Christ told a parable in Luke 12:35-40 about the returning Lord whose servants would be blessed if they were found watching when he came in the second watch AND the third watch. The "third watch" representing the third coming in our future.

•There is also Revelation 10:4 which lists the prophecies which the seven thunders uttered, which John was not allowed to write down because these prophecies were all "sealed up" for the generations AFTER all of Revelation's "at hand" prophecies were fulfilled in that first-century generation. Prophecies future to AD 70, such as our own future today.

•Both Zechariah 14:16 and Matthew 24:21 cp 24:29-30 teach about the years of regular history continuing on this earth AFTER Christ's second coming return. That means at the future final judgment seat of Christ, anyone who has died between AD 70 and that future judgment will also stand before the judgment seat of Christ, to receive the things done while in the body, whether it be good or evil. Another future Great White Throne judgment, in addition to the GWT judgment back in AD 70. Because nobody gets out of that judgment encounter. Eventually, we must all stand before that judgment seat (2 Cor. 5:10), whether in AD 70 or in our future.

I have given above just one example of an author writing in 1894 a book entitled: "The Christ Has Come: The Second Advent an Event of the Past" by Ernest Hampden-Cook. His work teaches from all the Scriptures which he lists a third bodily resurrection and judgment in our future as well as Christ's second bodily coming with a bodily resurrection and judgment in AD 70. I've also been told of another author named Henry Hammond whose work in 1839 held to a third coming of Christ. So my manner of presenting these Scriptures is certainly not unique to me alone. I'm not a "lone wolf". "There is nothing new under the sun." And it is premature of you to assign arrogance to my motives, when you do not know me personally except for the words coming across this screen. For myself, I try not to assign motives to anyone whose material I am reading online. It is impossible to know the heart in these cases, so I try to presume only the best of people's intent for what they write.
 

WPM

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I'm not aware of any verse of scripture that he interprets correctly. He does say he believes in a future return of Christ, but I wonder which scripture he thinks speaks of that? Regardless, he is obviously very lacking in spiritual discernment. He has this 3 resurrections doctrine all to himself. These lone wolves who have their own doctrines must be desperate for attention or something. And they must be very arrogant to think that God only reveals the truth to them.
The cults are like this. He is fixated with the coming of Titus in AD70. Go figure! What a life. What a delusion! Believers are captivated with Christ's future return.
 
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WPM

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You just completely ignored everything I said. This is pointless. If you want to insist on believing false doctrine, that's your choice, but you have no excuse for believing the nonsense that you believe in. Ask God for wisdom (James 1:5-7).
Bro, that is what he does. Look at how many posts (with attached Scriptures and biblical arguments) have been stepped around above. He is all over the place! There is nothing that is absolute in the Word. Everything is fluid. Anything goes!
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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A list of those scriptures which teach a future third coming of Christ are as follows:

•Paul wrote of three bodily resurrection events taking place in a certain "order" in 1 Cor. 15:20-24, one after the other. To begin with, "Christ the First-fruits", second on the list "Afterwards" they that were Christ's at his coming, and third in the list "Then the end, when He shall have delivered up the kingdom to God..."
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Have you no shame when you twist scripture like this? The end comes at Christ's second coming. Like Premils do, you are trying to insert an imaginary time gap between His second coming and the end. And you are adding an imaginary resurrection in verse 24 that is not mentioned there. Your twisting of God's holy word is utter foolishness and is completely unacceptable.

•Christ told a parable in Luke 12:35-40 about the returning Lord whose servants would be blessed if they were found watching when he came in the second watch AND the third watch. The "third watch" representing the third coming in our future.
LOL. Stop this nonsense already. Jesus said it was possible that He could come in the second watch and it was possible that He could come in the third watch. No one knew the day or hour of His coming, including even Him (Matthew 24:36). Notice it says no one knew the day or hour (singular) of His coming, not the days or hours of His coming and then coming again. In no way, shape or form was He saying that He would return in both th second and the third watch. That might be the single most ridiculous and insane belief that I've ever seen. Please ask God for wisdom (James 1:5-7).

I can't read any more of your nonsense. It makes me nauseous. But, it is also hilarious how ridiculous your belief is. But, sad at the same time. And nauseating. Ugh.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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The cults are like this. He is fixated with the coming of Titus in AD70. Go figure! What a life. What a delusion! Believers are captivated with Christ's future return.
It's absolutely pathetic and there's no excuse for it. I keep telling him to ask God for wisdom, like James said to do (James 1:5-7), but he obviously hasn't done it yet.
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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Bro, that is what he does. Look at how many posts (with attached Scriptures and biblical arguments) have been stepped around above. He is all over the place! There is nothing that is absolute in the Word. Everything is fluid. Anything goes!
Eventually, he will probably come up with a fourth coming of Christ and a fourth resurrection of the dead because that's what people like him do. They come up with nonsense in their imaginations in their desire to be different from everyone else and try to show how special they are by being the only one to discover certain truths. It's just unbelievable.
 
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3 Resurrections

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I can't read any more of your nonsense. It makes me nauseous. But, it is also hilarious how ridiculous your belief is. But, sad at the same time. And nauseating. Ugh.
This is exactly the response which Paul received from some of those at Mars Hill in Acts 17:31-32. "Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he is ABOUT TO judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead. And when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked: and others said, We will hear thee again of this matter."

Paul is recorded in Scripture teaching in several places of a resurrection of the just and the unjust which was "about to be" in his own generation. If you decide to mock when I present the very same doctrine that Paul presented, that is certainly one of the responses which this truth engenders. But others are like those at Mars Hill who decided to give thought to these things which Paul was saying. There is a growing number of people who are beginning to question what the church has mistakenly taught them for years on eschatology, and are looking into the various Preterist positions, searching for answers which more closely match what the Scriptures in front of them are saying. If you are not one of those, so be it.

It's absolutely pathetic and there's no excuse for it. I keep telling him to ask God for wisdom, like James said to do (James 1:5-7), but he obviously hasn't done it yet.
Thirteen years ago, I began to beg God for wisdom to understand eschatology. I did not wait for your suggestion to ask God for this. And I have continued to beg Him for wisdom through these past years so that I don't go astray into my own understanding. If the results don't match what you believe, that doesn't mean that I haven't asked my Father God for the meaning of His Scriptures. And why would He give me a stone when I ask for bread? Not even an earthly father does that.
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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This is exactly the response which Paul received from some of those at Mars Hill in Acts 17:31-32. "Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he is ABOUT TO judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead. And when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked: and others said, We will hear thee again of this matter."
Good grief. Get over yourself. Comparing yourself to Paul? You know nothing compared to Paul.

God has not yet judged the world. My goodness you are completely lacking in discernment. Has He judged you yet? No. I'm sure you have not yet stood before the judgment seat of Christ to give an account of yourself. He will judge all people at the same time, as Matthew 25:31-46 indicates and that has not yet happened.

Thirteen years ago, I began to beg God for wisdom to understand eschatology.
You must have had doubt that he would give it to you then because you have almost zero biblical wisdom.

James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. 6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. 7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.

I did not wait for your suggestion to ask God for this.
Ask Him without doubting that He will give it to you. It's very clear to me that you are completely lacking in wisdom as of now.

And I have continued to beg Him for wisdom through these past years so that I don't go astray into my own understanding. If the results don't match what you believe, that doesn't mean that I haven't asked my Father God for the meaning of His Scriptures.
If you're begging, then that would indicate you have doubts. You don't have to beg. You can calmly and confidently ask Him for wisdom and He will give it to you if you don't doubt.
 
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WPM

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This is exactly the response which Paul received from some of those at Mars Hill in Acts 17:31-32. "Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he is ABOUT TO judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead. And when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked: and others said, We will hear thee again of this matter."
LOL. Self praise is no recommendation. You are deluding yourself, just like Joseph Smith. You are nothing like Paul. He was humble and enlightened.
 

Scott Downey

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coming in the clouds means not visible seen . we will however know he is present because of the signs ,earth quakes, wars and reports of war.
Nope, cannot mean that as it says this in refutation

Revelation 1:7
Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.
 
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