Webers_Home
Well-Known Member
That would be a useful verse were it not for the fact that the whole thing,
word for word, is an editorial fantasy, viz: it's not in the available Greek
manuscripts.
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WHAT IS THE WATER IN JOHN 3:5?
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That would be a useful verse were it not for the fact that the whole thing,
word for word, is an editorial fantasy, viz: it's not in the available Greek
manuscripts.
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I did not miss this
I think I might be missing your point as you may understand it, but thats okay, regardless, its good to hear how everyone might understand a thing.
I heard neither is John 8 with the woman caught in adultery.
But what you can do, is indulge in that same fantasy where it might exist elsewhere
For example,
Acts 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
Webers_Home
Well-Known Member
Multiplied thousands of people were imprisoned in Nazi camps like Auschwitz,
Dachau, and Buchenwald during WW2. Well, It's my guess that a percentage
of them were believing Christians who did what they could to share the gospel
with unbelieving prisoners.
The thing is: those folks had scarcely adequate water for thirst and hygiene,
so what did they do for baptisms?
It seems utterly preposterous to me that that the supreme being would go
to all the trouble of setting up His son to be crucified for the sins of the world
only to lose a number of souls merely because they were unable to get
themselves baptized in a timely manner.
Well; I strongly suspect that there's a glitch in some people's thinking about
baptism; comparable to the glitch in some people's thinking about tongues.
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I don't think its utterly preposterous, if your nailed to a cross like the thief crucified with Jesus I am certain exceptions can be made.
Webers_Home
Well-Known Member
The new covenant wasn't ratified until Jesus died, and Mark 16:15-16 didn't become
a standing order till after his resurrection.
Eph 4:5 says there is one faith and one baptism. If God were to start making
exceptions He'd have to offer the world two faiths instead of the one, plus
give folks a chance to opt out of baptism.
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What did not become a standing order
It reads
Ephes 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
Jesus coming out to John for water baptism before he was crucified
Matt 3:13 Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.
Jesus himself baptizing with water after his own baptism by water, although not he himself, but his disciples before he was crucified
John 4:1-2 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John, (Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,)
Then after Jesus was crucified his disciples instructed those of the circumcision to be baptized before having received the Holy Ghost
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
Also after Jesus was crucified, his disciples are instructing those of the uncircumcision to be baptized with water after having received the Holy Ghost
Acts 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
Same as John the baptist. John the baptist had the Holy Ghost from his mothers womb (Luke 1:15) and when Jesus come out to him to be baptized by water, it says
Mat 3:14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
John said he had need to be baptized of Jesus Christ wo would baptize with the Holy Ghost (when John already had the Holy Ghost). But Jesus also baptized with water (Though, as it says, Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,)
Matt 3:13 Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.
Jesus himself baptizing with water after his own baptism by water, although not he himself, but his disciples before he was crucified
John 4:1-2 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John, (Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,)
Then after Jesus was crucified his disciples instructed those of the circumcision to be baptized before having received the Holy Ghost
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
Also after Jesus was crucified, his disciples are instructing those of the uncircumcision to be baptized with water after having received the Holy Ghost
Acts 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
Same as John the baptist. John the baptist had the Holy Ghost from his mothers womb (Luke 1:15) and when Jesus come out to him to be baptized by water, it says
Mat 3:14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
John said he had need to be baptized of Jesus Christ wo would baptize with the Holy Ghost (when John already had the Holy Ghost). But Jesus also baptized with water (Though, as it says, Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,)
Webers_Home
Well-Known Member
I'm not entirely against Christian baptism; in point of fact I had it done on
myself back around 1978, and I highly recommend that folks not yet
baptized get it done and get it over with lest they find themselves marked
with a scarlet letter, so to speak.
However, I have suspected for a number of years that the ritual isn't an
essential requirement though in many new testament references it appears
to be. I sincerely believe we're missing something pivotal somewhere relative
to Christianity's development.
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I on the otherhand have thought, why do people make so much of being against it?
Although, even I do not understand infant water baptism, because they cannot believe,
(I was baptized as an infant) but I wouldnt reckon that, but chose for myself when I come
to believe in Jesus Christ.
Water baptism has been a part of almost every Christian church since its inception with the exception
of the Quakers (which was formed in 1648) and the Salvation Army (which was formed
in 1865). They are the only two churches that I know of that do not.
Hello Friend here is my answer I pondered on it for a few days and things gave become clear to me. So
when Jesus told Nicodemus in John 3:5, “Unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God,” He was speaking of a spiritual birth that He alone could give. This connects directly to what John the Baptist had already declared about Him.
John the Baptist said, “I indeed baptize you with water; but One mightier than I is coming… He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire” (Luke 3:16; Matthew 3:11; Mark 1:8; John 1:33). John’s water baptism was for repentance, but he made it clear that the true and greater baptism would come from Jesus — the baptism with the Holy Spirit.
Jesus Himself described this “water” as living water, saying, “Whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst… the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain… into everlasting life” (John 4:14) and, “He who believes in Me… out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.” John then explains, “This He spoke concerning the Spirit” (John 7:38–39).
So when Jesus told Nicodemus about being born of water and the Spirit, He was pointing to the same promise John the Baptist had announced — that the Messiah would give the Holy Spirit, cleansing and giving new life to those who believe and obey. Water baptism is the outward sign of repentance, but the living water — the Holy Spirit — is the inward power that causes the true new birth. Without both repentance and the Spirit given by Christ, no one can enter the kingdom of God.
Blessings and Have a good Sabbath.
Gary Mac
Member
That isnt true at all. Adam was the very first to receive that new covenant in the garden when he gains Gods knowledge of Spirit in himself and became like God to know the difference proven in Gen 3;22. Abraham received that new covenant from God Himself, so did Moses so did Mary, so did Jesus in Matt 3:16, so did 120 in an upper room.
That new covenant is God Himself will come to you just as He did all of these and open in you that new heaven and earth as He did in all of these. He is at your door knocking this day waiting for you to pen it to him that He may come to you and sup with you and give you that renting of mind, His covenant, that you may be as He is and in His same age of Love that God is.
And obviously you have made exceptions when you stated "The new covenant wasn't ratified until Jesus died," If that was the case then Adam, Abraham, Moses and all of those we read of who met God to have that new covenant as their own spirit of mind was all a lie.
Jesus received that new covenant, that renewing of his mind when he was about 30 years old proven in Matt 3:16 from God Himself just as all of those did before Jesus and after. You cant know what that new covenant is at all least you receive the very same from God Himself as these received from God Himself.
all wrong, all of it, read Jeremiah 31:31-35, look also of the context preceding Jer 31 and the following chapters clearly this is for the end times.
What is the covenant, how did GOD define it?
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@LoveYeshua, you had also brought in the woman at the well (not quoted in the above). But that encounter with her follows Jesus baptizing the people in water with his disciples in this place here
John 4:1 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees (who reject water baptism) had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John,
John 4:2 (Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,)
John 4:3 He left Judaea, and departed again into Galilee.
John 4:4 And he must needs go through Samaria.
And so its right after this Jesus comes to Samaria (next verse)
John 4:5 Then cometh he to a city of Samaria, which is called Sychar, near to the parcel of ground that Jacob gave to his son Joseph.
John 4:6 Now Jacob's well was there. Jesus therefore, being wearied with his journey, sat thus on the well: and it was about the sixth hour.
John 4:7 There cometh a woman of Samaria to draw water: Jesus saith unto her, Give me to drink.
So Jesus (with his disciples) are still baptizing with water as was John just before he was thirsty and asks her for a drink and testifies to the drink he would give if she only knew (that she would never thirst)
As is noted,
John 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
However, after Jesus was glorified, water baptism continued, both among the circumcision and the uncircumcision
Here among the Circumcision (before having received the Holy Ghost)
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
As well as here among the Uncircumcision (after having received the Holy Ghost)
Acts 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
Acts 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
Which makes sense that John the baptist (who himself baptized the people with water) and who also had the Holy Ghost from his mothers womb
Luke 1:15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.
Said to Jesus in Matt 3:14 .... I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
Regardless of that John had the Holy Ghost from his mothers womb, when Jesus came to John to be baptized with water (John at the first did forbid him) but John also understood that he still had need to be baptized of Jesus.
Matt 3:14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
And so water baptism is shown in (John, before Jesus was baptized) then in Jesus and his disciples (before he was crucified) and in Acts (after Jesus was crucified and glorified). And not just with the Circumcision (before they received the Holy Ghost) but also with the Uncircumcision (after they themselves received the Holy Ghost) even as John was filled with the Holy Ghost at the time he said to Jesus he had need to be baptized of him.
Some say being born of woman (as John was) was being born of the water there and go right into the Spirit, but John was both of those, but even John stated he had need of being baptized by Jesus, and if he had the Holy Ghost what baptism would that be? Because even though those who had the Holy Ghost of the uncircumcision, the same were commanded to be baptized, and the verses indicated it was with water (Acts 10:47-48)
Ironically, it was Nicodemus who came to Jesus by night to whom the statement "born of water and Spirit" was directed at and Nicodemus was of the Pharisees who reject John's water baptism.
Luke 7:30 But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him.
For those who like to clean the outside of the cup and dish its like they had rabies when it come to water or something
Edit :typo
Gary Mac
Member
SO Adam didnt gain Gods knowledge and become like Him to know the difference from Carnality and spirituality proven in Gen 3:22? Looks to me if he became like God to know that difference he had a change in education. How about Abraham, Moses, Mary, Jesus, 120. they didnt receive knowledge from God Himself by the Spirit that He is and become like Him where all of His heaven is opened in us and who He really is?
You havent met Him ave you?
The end times is the day they lay you in a grave. If you have not met God by then as these did, it is to late for you to know Him by then. The kingdom of God does not come with observation, it isnt a place you go to and observe for the sweet by and by, it is with you. or is supposed to be. Luke 17:20-21, but not very many actually follow Jesus, nor believe him in what he says about it do they.
The covenant is that God will come to you and sup with you and be in you, Rev 3:20, just as He did starting in Adam, and all of these we read of who received Gods same disposition of Spirit, mind. That is His covenant that you will walk as He walks in His same light, you will be perfect even as your Father in heaven is perfect Matt 5:48, same signs will follow you that follows His same Spirit be your own mind, the mind of Christ, with simply is to be your mind anointed of God, which would be Christ in you. He will save anyone who will let Him in, for He is at your door knocking this day waiting on you. Rev 3:20.
You are stuck in that old mentality for a belief instead of letting God come open in you the truth in you just as He did these we read who accepted the Spirit of Gods mind to be their own spirit of mins. Born again of God Himself.
And Jesus was quite clear in John 16:23. And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.
No need to speculate about those things when you can know the simple truth from God Himself. All one has to do as these did is repent from self beliefs and receive from God Himself instead of mans religious laws about it.
You have no clue what you are talking about, you do not know what the covenant God made with it's people is. Do you want to know or not?
Behold
Well-Known Member
The 11 remaining Apostles received the Holy Spirit in John 20:22, which is before Acts 2:38......and none were water baptized, and none spoke in "tongues".
Paul came later, after Pentecost, and said...
"Jesus sent me not to water baptise"
The water baptism, is not why 3000 souls were "added".
See, Salvation is based on FAITH in Christ........not water baptism.
So, 3000 BELIEVERS (faith)...., were accepted by God... and then they were water baptised , afterwards.
Paul also said not all spake in tongues, and Paul said that he was sent to preach the gospel not sent to baptize, if you think you can change LovedYeshua's mind with Paul's words (when he/she?) rejects Paul good luck!
You are completely lost on the conversation.
Edit correction: mind not words
I stand corrected on my post here as far as @LoveYeshua's stand might be on this. Because to the contrary (in this case) @LoveYeshua could have very easily utilized Paul's words, "For Christ sent me not to baptize but to preach the gospel" in 1 Cr 1:17 to try and validate his/her position further. So Paul's words (in this instance) is pretty pointless for me to bring up here.
Gary Mac
Member
I know -- Jesus didnt have a clue what he was talking about either to those with the same carnal mentality who had him crucified for his ignorance.
How about you would you like to know what Gods covenant is? Hint, the answer is in John 17, where Jesus prayed to his God that God be in you and you be in Him as one as the Father was in Jesus and Jesus was in the Father as one.
And the hint is in Luke 17:20-21, the kingdom of God doesnt come with observation, it is with you. or is supposed to be but obviously you have your own covenant with the god that you can dictate to your own beliefs for a god.
\And the hint for God covenant is in 1 John 3:2 when you see Him as He is ye shall be like Him.
And the hint is in 1 John 3:9 we who are born of God are as He is, impossible to be in sin, cannot sin because wee are of Gods covenant.
And hint, Matt 5:48, the covenant is be ye therefore perfect even as your Farther in heaven is perfect.
And walk as He walks in His same light,
I live the covenant that God makes with man, you however have your own laws to regulate your gods covenant. And I know what your covenant is. I use to be of the same until God Himself came just as He did in Adam, Abraham, Moses Mary, Jesus in Matt 3:16 120 in an upper room and established His covenant Himself within me. Jesus described this new covenant as born again with the very same renewing of mind, covenant, that he received from God Himself proven in Matt 3:16. That is the covenant that obviously you do not have a clue about.
But the real truth is, the Onbe who makes that covenant is at your door knocking this day waiting for you to receive that new covenant where God Himself will come to you, and sup with you and be in you IF, you will open that knowledge and let Him in instead of dictating your own will and make your own laws to control Him.
You said I have no clue what I am taking about. According to what Jesus said and God says, you have no clue who God is or what His covenant is in man is by your elementary immature snide remarks. I live His covenant so did Jesus and others who met Him face to face, they also saw Him as He really is and became like Him. Something that would be wise for you to consider in yourself.
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