Is it possible to lose salvation?

[GodsGrace]

That's more than troubling about the priest but sadly there are so many stories like that. It's not Francis it's the post Vatican 2 debacle. It severely damaged the church but that's was the point of the people who perverted its message when it was rolled out.

As to the perfect denomination I disagree with you. For good bad or indifferent, and I've said this to you before, only one denomination can even remotely claim a direct line back to Peter. Period. Whether people like it or not that's the case. Scripture, tradition and the magisterium make up the teaching authority of the church. That's perfect but sadly the people in charge aren't. I see people all the time being led astray from the truth because of how a priest behaves. Or there is something they disagree with. The church isn't a democracy. Jesus didn't take a vote on the real presence in the Eucharist.

Agreed.
And I DO believe we can link the CC back to Peter.
As I've said many times...
I'm sorry the CC changed over the years.
Another member and I have debated this many times...
but, it seems to me, that history proves that the changes have taken place.
I do attend a CC right now and am rather involved in it - not as much as I used to be.

 

[nedsk]

Those that were taught by the Apostles believed they were nourishing themselves on the body and blood of Christ.
This is not a salvific issue so I don't like to pursue it.

Re the CC's teaching:
The CC teaches that the eucharist IS the body and blood of Jesus...NOT A SYMBOL...
SOME protestant denominations believe it's a symbol.
Some believe in the Real Presence.
Martin Luther believed it was the body and blood...
interesting how we've gotten away from that through the years.

Agreed.
The bread that does not rot after one day and must constantly be renewed.
The Exodus.
The living manna.

Correct.
But He did not back down...
He doubled up and asked who else would leave Him...

Correct.
The Passover lamb WAS EATEN.
And the blood on the doorways saved them from death.

I agree and it also means this.
I used to also believe it was purely spiritual in nature....
I've come to believe it's more than spiritual.


Agreed.

Could be.


Amen brother.
As I said,,,this is not something I'm willing to debate.
Transubstantiation COULD BE reality.
I leave to each one of us to believe as he will.

It is reality as Jesus said, Whoever feeds upon my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life. John 6:54

If Jesus wasn't speaking literally then his question in verse 61 is nonsensical. Aware of the complaints of his disciples, Jesus said to them, "Does this shock you?" Why would they be shocked if he was speaking symbolically?

And if he was not speaking literally then his question in verse 67 is even more ridiculous, "Do you wish to leave?" Why would they leave if they thought he was only speaking symbolically?

 

[GodsGrace]

It is reality as Jesus said, Whoever feeds upon my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life. John 6:54

If Jesus wasn't speaking literally then his question in verse 61 is nonsensical. Aware of the complaints of his disciples, Jesus said to them, "Does this shock you?" Why would they be shocked if he was speaking symbolically?

And if he was not speaking literally then his question in verse 67 is even more ridiculous, "Do you wish to leave?" Why would they leave if they thought he was only speaking symbolically?

Exactly.

 

[GodsGrace]

It is NOT…




Scripture is Full of Words, you can search, read, accept, believe, doubt, reject…. Your FREEWILL prerogative.
Also by your own POWER you can KEEP your Belief or Discard your Belief.

Inanutshell God Offers TO KEEP your true spiritual Confession TO the Lord…your True Standing of SPIRITUAL Belief “IN HIM”…
Once and Forever….FOR YOU.

Because…
1 John 4
because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.


Glory to God,
Taken

I agree that we have the free will to believe or not believe....discard our belief.
If we discard our belief we will no longer be saved but will return to our previous state like a dog that returns to his vomit.
2 Peter 2:21-22
21For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment handed on to them.
22It has happened to them according to the true proverb, “A DOG RETURNS TO ITS OWN VOMIT,” and, “A sow, after washing, returns to wallowing in the mire.”


We don't do anything by our own power Taken.
Why even bring this up?
Why all these strawmen?

Greater is He that is in YOU?
Right.

IF you allow HIM to REMAIN in you.

John 15:6
6“If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.


ABIDE means to continue living IN CHRIST.
This is the teaching of JESUS....not me.

Check it out....

§Those who ENDURE to the end will be saved.
Need scripture?

 

[GodsGrace]

Ignatius
Aristides
Jesuits
St. Justin
Clement

And here are more Quote from Vaious Catholics that pretend that Mary has Spiritual Power to help, to redeem, and to comfort.

Total MaryCult nonsense.
-
O sinner, be not discouraged, but have recourse to Mary in all you necessities. Call her to your assistance, for such is the divine Will that she should help in every kind of necessity."
- Saint Basil the Great

"If you invoke the blessed Virgin when you are tempted, she will come at once to your help, and Satan will leave you."
- Saint John Vianney

"If you ever feel distressed during your day, call upon our Lady, just say this simple prayer: 'Mary, Mother of Jesus, please be a mother to me now.' I must admit, this prayer has never failed me."
- Blessed Mother Teresa

"Let us run to Mary, and, as her little children, cast ourselves into her arms with a perfect confidence."
- Saint Francis de Sales

"The Son of God became man for our salvation but only in Mary and through Mary."
- Saint Louis Marie de Montfort

"The world being unworthy to receive the son of God directly from the hands of the Father, he gave his son to Mary for the world to receive him from her."
- Saint Augustine

"Even while living in the world, the heart of Mary was so filled with motherly tenderness and compassion for men that no-one ever suffered so much for their own pains, as Mary suffered for the pains of her children."
- Saint Jerome

You won't know this Behold...
but the above are NOT Apostolic Fathers or Early Church Fathers.

BUT that's besides the point....
your OTHER POST was rediculous and I asked you for the source of THAT post....
NOT a new one.

BTW,,,I can agree to all of the above.
No problem here.

How about giving the source of that other post of yours that was rather silly.
Thanks.

 

[nedsk]

Agreed.
And I DO believe we can link the CC back to Peter.
As I've said many times...
I'm sorry the CC changed over the years.
Another member and I have debated this many times...
but, it seems to me, that history proves that the changes have taken place.
I do attend a CC right now and am rather involved in it - not as much as I used to be.

The Catholic Church is the church and has been since day one. Has it changed yes in practices it has sadly but Jesus promised to send the spirit to guide his church. We all have a choice to make, listen and be obedient to Jesus and his church or decide for ourselves what God can and cannot do.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Saying "out of context" is the debate equivalent of "nah uh". It's meaningless. All your saying is, you disagree with me so you must be wrong. That's mindless.

Not at all. but maybe that is above your learning. You have horribly ripped many verses out of their context to try to defend an unbiblical position.

You just don't like being told you have done so.

 

[nedsk]

Not at all. but maybe that is above your learning. You have horribly ripped many verses out of their context to try to defend an unbiblical position.

You just don't like being told you have done so.

Sounds like you

 

[BreadOfLife]

Not at all. but maybe that is above your learning. You have horribly ripped many verses out of their context to try to defend an unbiblical position.

You just don't like being told you have done so.

The point here is that I didn't rip Rev. 5:8 out of context . . .

It illustrates people in Heaven interceding on OUR behalf by taking OUR prayers to God as "golden bowls of incense".

You ALSO dodged my questions and never answered them:
1. Can YOU show me where the Bible says that we are ONLY yo adhere to what is in the Bible??
2. What did the Christians do for the first 300 years of the Church when there was NO Canon of Scripture??

 

[Behold]

1. Can YOU show me where the Bible says that we are ONLY yo adhere to what is in the Bible??

The MaryCult is built on Mary and "Tradtions", which are non-bibllical teachings created by MaryCult members.

If you remove Mary and these man made Teachings ("Traditions). from the MaryCult...... it collapses, because the MaryCult's foundation is not built on the word of God, itself.
-

'""""Thus you nullify the word of God by your TRADITION that you have handed down. And you do many things like that.”""""

New Living Translation
And so you cancel the word of God in order to hand down your own tradition. And this is only one example among many others.”

English Standard Version
thus making void the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And many such things you do.”

Berean Standard Bible
Thus you nullify the word of God by the tradition you have handed down. And you do so in many such matters.”

Berean Literal Bible
making void the word of God for your tradition, which you have handed down. And you do many things like such."

King James Bible
Making the word of God of none effect through your Tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

New King James Version
making the word of God of no effect through your tradition which you have handed down. And many such things you do.”

New American Standard Bible
thereby invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”

NASB 1995
thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”

NASB 1977
thus invalidating the word of God by your Tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”

Legacy Standard Bible
thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”

Amplified Bible
so you nullify the [authority of the] word of God [acting as if it did not apply] because of your tradition which you have handed down [through the elders]. And you do many things such as that.”

Christian Standard Bible
You nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many other similar things.”

Holman Christian Standard Bible
You revoke God’s word by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many other similar things.”

American Standard Version
making void the word of God by your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things ye do.

Contemporary English Version
And you ignore God's commands in order to follow your own teaching. You do a lot of other things just as bad.

English Revised Version
making void the word of God by your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things ye do.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
Because of your traditions you have destroyed the authority of God's word. And you do many other things like that."

Good News Translation
In this way the teaching you pass on to others cancels out the word of God. And there are many other things like this that you do."

International Standard Version
You are destroying the word of God through your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many other things like that."

NET Bible
Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like this."

New Heart English Bible
making void the word of God by your tradition, which you have handed down. You do many things like this."

Webster's Bible Translation
Making the word of God of no effect through your traditions, which ye have delivered: and many such like things ye do.

Weymouth New Testament
thus nullifying God's precept by your tradition which you have handed down. And many things of that kind you do."

 

[nedsk]

The MaryCult is built on Mary and "Tradtions", which are non-bibllical teachings created by MaryCult members.

If you remove Mary and these man made Teachings ("Traditions). from the MaryCult...... it collapses, because the MaryCult's foundation is not built on the word of God, itself.
-

'""""Thus you nullify the word of God by your TRADITION that you have handed down. And you do many things like that.”""""

New Living Translation
And so you cancel the word of God in order to hand down your own tradition. And this is only one example among many others.”

English Standard Version
thus making void the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And many such things you do.”

Berean Standard Bible
Thus you nullify the word of God by the tradition you have handed down. And you do so in many such matters.”

Berean Literal Bible
making void the word of God for your tradition, which you have handed down. And you do many things like such."

King James Bible
Making the word of God of none effect through your Tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

New King James Version
making the word of God of no effect through your tradition which you have handed down. And many such things you do.”

New American Standard Bible
thereby invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”

NASB 1995
thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”

NASB 1977
thus invalidating the word of God by your Tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”

Legacy Standard Bible
thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”

Amplified Bible
so you nullify the [authority of the] word of God [acting as if it did not apply] because of your tradition which you have handed down [through the elders]. And you do many things such as that.”

Christian Standard Bible
You nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many other similar things.”

Holman Christian Standard Bible
You revoke God’s word by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many other similar things.”

American Standard Version
making void the word of God by your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things ye do.

Contemporary English Version
And you ignore God's commands in order to follow your own teaching. You do a lot of other things just as bad.

English Revised Version
making void the word of God by your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things ye do.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
Because of your traditions you have destroyed the authority of God's word. And you do many other things like that."

Good News Translation
In this way the teaching you pass on to others cancels out the word of God. And there are many other things like this that you do."

International Standard Version
You are destroying the word of God through your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many other things like that."

NET Bible
Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like this."

New Heart English Bible
making void the word of God by your tradition, which you have handed down. You do many things like this."

Webster's Bible Translation
Making the word of God of no effect through your traditions, which ye have delivered: and many such like things ye do.

Weymouth New Testament
thus nullifying God's precept by your tradition which you have handed down. And many things of that kind you do."

You people think volume of content makes you right. It's hilarious

I praise you because you remember me in everything and you maintain the traditions just as I handed them down to you. 1Cor 11:2

Therefore stand firm brethern and hold fast to the traditions they you have been taught whether by word of mouth or by letter if ours. 2 Thes 2:15.

What specific traditions is Paul referring to here? Be specific and show it from scripture.

Which traditions were passed on by "word of mouth"? Be specific and show from scripture

 

[Behold]

Therefore stand firm brethern and hold fast to the traditions

Its foolish to post "traditions" (verses) from the Bible, and the Bible has not one MaryCult Tradition, found in it.
You realize this yet, little one?
So, there are Traditions found in the Bible, but none of the MaryCult Traditions are found in the bible, and those are the "man made that make the word of God, of no Authority".
And This is why the bible has no authority in your life .... whereas you want to rant to the skies about MaryCult authority written as "church fathers" teachings that are not found in any bible. @nedsk

 

[BreadOfLife]

The MaryCult is built on Mary and "Tradtions", which are non-bibllical teachings created by MaryCult members.

If you remove Mary and these man made Teachings ("Traditions). from the MaryCult...... it collapses, because the MaryCult's foundation is not built on the word of God, itself.
'""""Thus you nullify the word of God by your TRADITION that you have handed down. And you do many things like that.”""""

New Living Translation
And so you cancel the word of God in order to hand down your own tradition. And this is only one example among many others.”

English Standard Version
thus making void the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And many such things you do.”

Berean Standard Bible
Thus you nullify the word of God by the tradition you have handed down. And you do so in many such matters.”

Berean Literal Bible
making void the word of God for your tradition, which you have handed down. And you do many things like such."

King James Bible
Making the word of God of none effect through your Tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

BLAH, BLAH, BLAH . . .

Ummm, Jesus was speaking of the Pharisees and scribes who were living hypocritical lives and placing their traditions ABOVE the word of God and the spirit of the Law (Matt. 15:9, Mark 7:5-9). He was NOT condemning ALL Tradition. Time for a Bible Lesson . . .

Paul tells us that we are to "Stand firm and hold fast to the Traditions you were taught, whether by an ORAL STATEMENT or by a LETTER from us" (2 Thess. 2:15; see 2 Thess. 3:6, 1 Cor. 11:2). He goes on to say in 1 Tim. 3:15, that the Church is the “pillar and foundation of truth.” He doesn’t say that the Bible is the pillar and foundation of truth because it hadn’t been compiled yet and MUCH of it hadn’t yet been written.

As for Jesus and the Apostles believing in and teaching Sacred Traditions – here are a few examples . . .
Matt. 2:23 - the prophecy "He shall be a Nazarene" is ORAL TRADITION. It is not found in the Old Testament. This demonstrates that the apostles relied upon oral tradition and taught by oral tradition.

Matt 23:2 - Jesus relies on the ORAL TRADITION of acknowledging Moses' seat of authority (which passed from Moses to Joshua to the Sanhedrin). This is not recorded in the Old Testament.

1 Cor. 10:4 - Paul relies on the ORAL TRADITION of the rock following Moses. It is not recorded in the Old Testament. See Exod. 17:1-17 and Num. 20:2-13.

2 Timothy 3:8 - Paul relies on the ORAL TRADITION when speaking of Pharoah’s magicians, Jannes and Jambres. Their names are not recorded in the Old Testament.

Heb. 11:37 - the author of Hebrews relies on the ORAL TRADITION of the martyrs being sawed in two. This is not recorded in the Old Testament.

Jude 9 - Jude relies on the ORAL TRADITION of the Archangel Michael's dispute with satan over Moses' body. This is not found in the Old Testament.

Jude 14-15 - Jude relies on the ORAL TRADITION of Enoch's prophecy which is not recorded in the Old Testament.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Its foolish to post "traditions" (verses) from the Bible, and the Bible has not one MaryCult Tradition, found in it.
You realize this yet, little one?
So, there are Traditions found in the Bible, but none of the MaryCult Traditions are found in the bible, and those are the "man made that make the word of God, of no Authority".
And This is why the bible has no authority in your life .... whereas you want to rant to the skies about MaryCult authority written as "church fathers" teachings that are not found in any bible. @nedsk

Good grief, this is a frighteningly stupid remark . . .

“Tradition”, by definition is something that is NOT written down in Scripture.
WHY would you insist that they would be?? John tells us that Jesus did MANY things that were NOT written down (John 21:25).

He left a Church - NOT a Book to teach His flock (Matt. 16:18-19, Luke. 10:16. John 20:21-23) and promised to lead that Church to ALL Truth (John 16:12-15).

 

[Taken]

I agree that we have the free will to believe or not believe....discard our belief.
If we discard our belief we will no longer be saved but will return to our previous state like a dog that returns to his vomit.

Men are NOT Sav-ED then “UN-SAVED”.

I agree that we have the free will to believe or not believe....discard our belief.
We don't do anything by our own power…

Oxymoron.

IF you allow HIM to REMAIN in you.

No.
You think a man can Call on the Lord, Confess his Belief..AND The ALL knowing God…WILL Save the man… and then be like… oh Darn… Gee WHO KNEW that man would stop believing?

Elaborate…on that nonsense…

 

[Taken]

The MaryCult is built on Mary and "Tradtions", which are non-bibllical teachings created by MaryCult members.

Agree.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Men are NOT Sav-ED then “UN-SAVED”.

According to YOU – but NOT according to Scripture (Matt. 7:19-23, Matt. 10:22, Matt. 24:13, Matt. 25:31–46, John 15:1-6, Rom. 11:22, 1 Cor. 4:4, 1 Cor. 9:27, 1 Cor. 10:12, 1 Tim. 4:1, 1 Tim. 4:16, 2 Tim. 2:12, Heb. 3:6, Heb. 3:12-14, Heb. 6:4-6, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Pet. 2:20-21, 2 Pet. 3:17, 1 John 2:24, 1 John 5:13, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19).

No.
You think a man can Call on the Lord, Confess his Belief..AND The ALL knowing God…WILL Save the man… and then be like… oh Darn… Gee WHO KNEW that man would stop believing?

Elaborate…on that nonsense…

YUP.

If YOU saved a man from drowning in the middle of the ocean - and you knew that he would jump off the boat later - you would STILL rescue him. That's what a benevolent person does.

God's entire plan is to SAVE - not to condemn us . . .

 

[GodsGrace]

Men are NOT Sav-ED then “UN-SAVED”.




Oxymoron.




No.
You think a man can Call on the Lord, Confess his Belief..AND The ALL knowing God…WILL Save the man… and then be like… oh Darn… Gee WHO KNEW that man would stop believing?

Elaborate…on that nonsense…

Taken....
I wonder if we all read the entire bible and WHICH bible we read.
Are we all reading the same bible?
This is really beginning to bother me seriously.
What's happening to Christianity?
Do we not know what THE TRUTH is anymore?

It's JESUS that states that we could lose/forfeit our salvation...not me.

Please explain the following verses IF you are correct:

Luke 8:13
13“Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away.


JESUS teaches that they BELIEVE FOR A WHILE
and then, for whatever reason - in this case due to temptation-
they FALL AWAY.

What exactly does this mean Taken?
What does it mean if someone BELIEVES?
What exactly are they FALLING AWAY FROM?


Luke 15:24
24for this son of mine was dead and has come to life again;


JESUS is teaching that a person could come to life AGAIN.
What does AGAIN mean?

I've given these verses before...
maybe not to you...
never get a reply, but get other verses instead...
just proving that the poster is creating a conflict in the NT teachings.

So how about exegeting the above two verses?

 

[GodsGrace]

Men are NOT Sav-ED then “UN-SAVED”.




Oxymoron.




No.
You think a man can Call on the Lord, Confess his Belief..AND The ALL knowing God…WILL Save the man… and then be like… oh Darn… Gee WHO KNEW that man would stop believing?

Elaborate…on that nonsense…

BTW,,,,sad to see that you believe what JESUS teaches is nonsense!

 

[BreadOfLife]

The MaryCult is built on Mary and "Tradtions", which are non-bibllical teachings created by MaryCult members.

If you remove Mary and these man made Teachings ("Traditions). from the MaryCult...... it collapses, because the MaryCult's foundation is not built on the word of God, itself.

Uhhh - STILL waiting on an answer to the following questions you've been running from . . .

1. Can YOU show me where the Bible says that we are ONLY yo adhere to what is in the Bible??
2. What did the Christians do for the first 300 years of the Church when there was NO Canon of Scripture??