Is it possible to lose salvation?

[Taken]

The BRANCH IN CHRIST is a person.


The teaching of Jesus states that PERSONS that do not bear fruit are going to be burned....
PERSONS that do not bear fruit will be TAKEN AWAY, CUT OFF, SEVERED by God.

Try reading it again:

John 15:2
2“Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away;


John 15:6
6“If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned


If you believe Jesus is speaking about works...
you would be right.
BEARING FRUIT is DOING GOOD WORKS.


Those that DO NOT DO GOOD WORKS
will be cut off by God...taken away....severed from the Vine.

The vine gives LIFE
those that are severed, cut off, taken away, from the vine
NO LONGER HAVE LIFE.

Men with their Salvation do NOT lose their Salvation!

Men CAN lose their Rewards.

Works a man DOES that does NOT Glorify God, ARE Works that Shall be Burned.

Utter lack of understanding!
Insufferable!

 

[Treeline]

How do we know if we're saved?
Many Christians think they're saved but are in for a shock-
Jesus said:-"Not all who call me "Lord,Lord" will enter the kingdom of heaven. Then I'll tell them plainly, I never knew you, get away from me" (Matt 7:21-23)

 

[GodsGrace]

The Saved person, that Does Not produce Fruit (good works)…. Doesn’t lose his Salvation.(as you claim)…

He loses the Reward, he could have had…
IF he did service Glorifying to God

You have the person Losing His Salvation and Becoming cast into the Fire and Burned…



The complete Opposite from Scriptural Truth!

Warning…

Not a mystery.

Not what you claim!

1 Cor 3[a]
[15] If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved;


2 John -1:
[8] Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.

So you DO understand my post on why Jesus came to SAVE US
NOT
to give us rewards...

So why call me a gaslighter?

Perhaps you could read my post to you no. 2337
replying to THIS statement of yours:

No. They LOSE Rewards, Not Salvation, as you wrongly claim.


See Taken...YOU stated that we lose REWARDS and not salvation.
I posted scripture showing WHY Jesus came to us....
and it was not to teach us how to get rewards
but
How to become saved and spend time in heaven with God.

1 corinthians 3:13......
is speaking SPECIFICALLY about the missionary work that Paul and Apollos were doing and how we are to continue it.
If we don't do particularly well...we will still be heaven-bound.

2 John 1
I suppose you mean verses
7For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist.
8Watch yourselves, that you do not lose what we have accomplished, but that you may receive a full reward.

Please note that John is concerned about the deceived losing their FULL REWARD...
That would be SALVATION Taken....
NO NT writer was concerned about losing a reward...
they were concerned about our losing SALVATION.

Note the very next verses of what YOU posted: thanks again for your help....

2 John 1:9-11
9Anyone who goes too far and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God; the one who abides in the teaching, he has both the Father and the Son.
10If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house, and do not give him a greeting;
11for the one who gives him a greeting participates in his evil deeds.


Pay attention:
It states that IF we GO TOO FAR and DO NOT ABIDE in Christ....
we do not have God.

If we do not have God
we are NOT SAVED.

AND
it goes on to state that we are not to heed anyone bringing THIS TEACHING.

WHAT teaching?
That we are not to go too far...
That we are to abide (remain) in Christ.


Try some different verses Taken...
because you cannot fight the truth.

 

[GodsGrace]

Men with their Salvation do NOT lose their Salvation!

Men CAN lose their Rewards.

Works a man DOES that does NOT Glorify God, ARE Works that Shall be Burned.

Utter lack of understanding!
Insufferable!

You can state that one does not understand...

but you're going to have to prove it.

Till now you've proven what I've stated.

Try again.

 

[GodsGrace]

Men with their Salvation do NOT lose their Salvation!

Support with scripture.
NOT your own ideas.

Men CAN lose their Rewards.

Works a man DOES that does NOT Glorify God, ARE Works that Shall be Burned.

Utter lack of understanding!
Insufferable!

Ooops.
1 Corinthians 3 again.

Know why I know it really well Taken?
Because Catholics use these verses to prove purgatory.
They do not prove purgatory...
NEITHER do they prove what YOU propose.

Read it again with an open mind.

 

[soberxp]

So have you really thought about what the reward is?


5:46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?

5:47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?

5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

 

[Treeline]

Incidentally, what are "works"?
For example monks do no "work" in the material sense, so should they be told to get out into the world and look for a job?

 

[soberxp]

Incidentally, what are "works"?
For example monks do no "work" in the material sense, so should they be told to get out into the world and look for a job?

Have faith with obedience to work in the word of God.

 

[Treeline]

Have faith with obedience to work in the word of God

During a spell of being unemployed some years ago, the jobcentre sent me to apply for a job in a convenience store, so I happily went along, but when I walked in and saw booze, cigarettes and porn mags on the shelves I thought "I ain't handling that stuff" and made my excuses and walked out. Did I do right in God's eyes?

Another time, the jobcentre ordered me and other unemployed people to go help refurbish a Hindu building, but I refused pointblank to go, and was punished by having my dole cut for a while.
Should I have gone to help?

 

[Taken]

Support with scripture.

Already did.

Oops..
1 Corinthians 3 again.

Not an oops… intentional on Topic!

Know why I know it really well Taken?

You may know the verse, but you continue to prove you do not know the difference between losing rewards ( which is possible ) and losing salvation ( which is not possible for a man who has received his Gift of Salvation)

Because Catholics use these verses to prove purgatory.
They do not prove purgatory...

Purgatory…a made up fiction.
Irrelevant.

NEITHER do they prove what YOU propose.

Read it again with an open mind.

Why? You think Spiritual Understanding of Spiritual matters comes from the MIND?
It doesn’t… and probably why very simple Spiritual points escape your understanding.

 

[Taken]

So you DO understand my post on why Jesus came to SAVE US
NOT
to give us rewards...

Who said Jesus came TO Give rewards?
No one

Who spoke Against Jesus Offering men Salvation? No one.

Who Keeps repeating what Jesus came TO DO and Did… when the topic was Rewards? You.

Who keeps repeating men Can Have Salvation and Then Lose Salvation? You.

Utterly False.

Don’t you Study Scripture?

Rewards Are Treasures stored up in Heaven.

Rewards are for men Glorifying God.

Jesus brings His Rewards With Him, to give to men…WHEN He Returns!!

 

[soberxp]

During a spell of being unemployed some years ago, the jobcentre sent me to apply for a job in a convenience store, so I happily went along, but when I walked in and saw booze, cigarettes and porn mags on the shelves I thought "I ain't handling that stuff" and made my excuses and walked out. Did I do right in God's eyes?

Another time, the jobcentre ordered me and other unemployed people to go help refurbish a Hindu building, but I refused pointblank to go, and was punished by having my dole cut for a while.
Should I have gone to help?

Do you understand that work is a secular work?
The Ten Commandments say, do all your work for six days. 20:9
Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

And I am talking about our spiritual work, learning to be merciful, not angry, patient, gentle, The virtue of humility, etc., comes from the word of God.

 

[BreadOfLife]

In matters oif how, when and where to worship and what form and how to build its buildings etc.etc. you are correct. Even in morals like what would constitute dress to that is tempting.

BUT in doctrine- the bible is the sole and full authority for the church. Any doctrine that contradicts god's Word is heretical and to be resisted and rejected at all costs.

WRONG. The Church AND the Bible are the Authority needed for doctrine.
Don’t forget – the Bible came out of the CHURCH - and NOIT the other way around.

For the first 300 years of the Church – there NO Canon of Scripture. There were MANY Books that were considered to be Scripture and were read aloud from pulpits during this period. It was the Church, guided by the Holy Spirit (John 16:12-15 ) who weeded out those other Books, compiled and declared the Canon in 382.

Oral Tradition doesn’t “contradict” Scripture – as they are BOTH considered to be the Word of God (2 Thess. 2:15). Traditions like Infant Baptism are implicitly taught in Scripture (Acts 10:1-49, 11:13-14, Acts 16:23-33, 1 Cor. 1:16)

 

[Behold]

-
The reason some of you believe that you can lose your Salvation, is because you are trying to keep yourself saved.

A.) You can't.. You're not the Savior.

So, when you are trying not to lose your Salvation, or believe you can.... its because you do not trust in Christ to keep you saved.
Reader....If you do not trust in Christ to keep you saved, you do not trust in Christ at all.
= This means that you dont yet understand God's Salvation, and you are trying to do it for yourself.
Paul refers to this Christian as "in the Flesh"..

What is the usual reason that a person becomes a : self-saver ?
Its because you have not yet understood, that Salvation is what God has completed through CHRIST... that we receive,.. and our discipleship is what we do for God because we have received His Eternal Salvation that is only found in Christ.

Salvation, is not our discipeship. Salvation is Christ's Sacrifice of Himself to God on THE CROSS so that we can be SAVED... forgiven, born again , having received Eternal life.
And now that we have RECEIVED God's Salvation, that is "the Gift of Salvation" and "the Gift of Eternal Life.....we are born again.

See all that?
That is God's Salvaton.......and we can't do that....and we dont try to keep it, because God's Salvation is completed by Jesus already, 2000 Yrs ago on THE Cross., and we have JESUS in us....

= Jesus is Salvation.

And now that we have Received "the GIFT of Salvation"........we then go and do those works, and live for the Lord, and "present our body as a living Sacrifice to God"".........not to try to stay saved, ....but because we ARE SAVED Already,= forever.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Your guesses are not relevant. If traditions were teachings they would be called teaching. Traditons are the passing on of praactices

tradition /trə-dĭsh′ən/

noun​

1. The passing down of elements of a culture from generation to generation, especially by oral communication.
   "cultural practices that are preserved by tradition."
2. A mode of thought or behavior followed by a people continuously from generation to generation; a custom or usage.
   "the traditions of Tibetan Buddhism."
3. A set of such customs and usages viewed as a coherent body of precedents influencing the present: synonym: heritage.
   "followed family tradition in dress and manners."

Actually, biblically it means teachings.

Paradiosis

2Th 2:15
Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

1. giving up, giving over
   1. the act of giving up
   2. the surrender of cities
2. a giving over which is done by word of mouth or in writing, i.e. tradition by instruction, narrative, precept, etc.
   1. objectively, that which is delivered, the substance of a teaching
   2. of the body of precepts, esp. ritual, which in the opinion of the later Jews were orally delivered by Moses and orally transmitted in unbroken succession to subsequent generations, which precepts, both illustrating and expanding the written law, as they did were to be obeyed with equal reverence

So Paul is speaking of his teachings he passed on to them. not cultural things.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

WRONG. The Church AND the Bible are the Authority needed for doctrine.
Don’t forget – the Bible came out of the CHURCH - and NOIT the other way around.

For the first 300 years of the Church – there NO Canon of Scripture. There were MANY Books that were considered to be Scripture and were read aloud from pulpits during this period. It was the Church, guided by the Holy Spirit (John 16:12-15 ) who weeded out those other Books, compiled and declared the Canon in 382.

Oral Tradition doesn’t “contradict” Scripture – as they are BOTH considered to be the Word of God (2 Thess. 2:15). Traditions like Infant Baptism are implicitly taught in Scripture (Acts 10:1-49, 11:13-14, Acts 16:23-33, 1 Cor. 1:16)

So wrong. The bible came from god as He inspired the authors to speak and write it! they were in the church but the church did not create the bible-God did!

2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in

2 Peter 1:19-21

King James Version

​

19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
But there was a canon- though not codified. It was the collective letters and gospels written down and copied and passed from church to church.

Many of Romanisms oral traditions do!

And sorry infant baptism is not even implied in any of those verses. there is no hint of Baptism except for 1 Cor. 1. and a cursory understanding of the culture and history would have let you know that people counted in the household were all of age (teens andabove)

 

[GodsGrace]

Already did.




Not an oops… intentional on Topic!



You may know the verse, but you continue to prove you do not know the difference between losing rewards ( which is possible ) and losing salvation ( which is not possible for a man who has received his Gift of Salvation)



Purgatory…a made up fiction.
Irrelevant.



Why? You think Spiritual Understanding of Spiritual matters comes from the MIND?
It doesn’t… and probably why very simple Spiritual points escape your understanding.

I don't see any scripture supporting your idea that Jesus came to us to teach us how to get REWARDS.

And you should really read some commentaries on 1 Cor 3.......
It's about missionary work
NOT
about just barely getting by so our works are burned and not US.

In John 15:2 JESUS taught that those IN HIM that DO NOT bear fruit...
will be cut off, taken away, severed from the vine.

Jesus taught that we could lose our salvation....
I just post scripture.

It's just 12 words Taken:

2“Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away...

 

[GodsGrace]

Incidentally, what are "works"?
For example monks do no "work" in the material sense, so should they be told to get out into the world and look for a job?

Who told you monks do no works?

Do you understand what works are?
Do you think it means going to work in an office from 9 to 5?

 

[GodsGrace]

During a spell of being unemployed some years ago, the jobcentre sent me to apply for a job in a convenience store, so I happily went along, but when I walked in and saw booze, cigarettes and porn mags on the shelves I thought "I ain't handling that stuff" and made my excuses and walked out. Did I do right in God's eyes?

Another time, the jobcentre ordered me and other unemployed people to go help refurbish a Hindu building, but I refused pointblank to go, and was punished by having my dole cut for a while.
Should I have gone to help?

You followed your conscience and did not disobey God.

Again...
What do you think a work is?

 

[GodsGrace]

Who said Jesus came TO Give rewards?
No one

Who spoke Against Jesus Offering men Salvation? No one.

Who Keeps repeating what Jesus came TO DO and Did… when the topic was Rewards? You.

Who keeps repeating men Can Have Salvation and Then Lose Salvation? You.

Utterly False.

Don’t you Study Scripture?

Rewards Are Treasures stored up in Heaven.

Rewards are for men Glorifying God.

Jesus brings His Rewards With Him, to give to men…WHEN He Returns!!

Taken....really brother,
you need to calm down because you are NOT understanding my posts and this has never happened before.

YOU have stated that God gives and takes away rewards.
YOU stated this in posts 2331, 2333, 2337, 2340, 2341

You even state right above that the topic is REWARDS !!
Although, it is not.

I don't come on here and type away because we might lose a REWARD.
I take the time to post here because what we can lose is our SALVATION.
THIS is what Jesus taught.


In John 15:2 Jesus CLEARLY states that if a believer does not bear fruit
he will be taken away....cut off....severed.

If you can show how this is false....
IOW, IF you can show how a simple, plain teaching from Jesus is false,,,,
it will require scripture that DOES prove your idea that salvation cannot be lost.

Please don't post 1 Cor 3 again because it just shows that you are not understanding what it speaks of.