Imprisoned

[Hiddenthings]

We’ve got a bit of a dilemma, @Aunty Jane.

I asked a friend of mine, who’s a Jehovah’s Witness in Melbourne whether there have ever been any cases in Australia where a JW was imprisoned for their faith, supposedly by "the Devil."

Their response? There’s no known case of any Jehovah’s Witness in Australia ever being jailed over matters of faith.

Revelation 2:10 "Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and for ten days you will have tribulation. Be faithful unto death, and I will give you the crown of life."

How do you reconcile this conundrum?

 

[Treeline]

I know a christian who tipped off the British police about a black drugs gang but the cowardly cops took no action.
Then the gang complained that he was "harassing" them by watching them through his binoculars, so the police swooped smoothly into action and arrested HIM, and he got a 3 month prison sentence, you couldn't make it up !
Perhaps the devil was behind it and hoped to break his spirit, but he simply laughed it off and took it in his stride.
"It's okay" he said with a smile to his shocked solicitor as he was led out of court in handcuffs, "I hadn't got anything planned for the next 3 months anyway"

 

[Hiddenthings]

Perhaps

No! there is no such thing as a fallen angel and everyone in this forum knows what Revelation 2:10 is really talking about and those who don't should learn.

 

[Stumpmaster]

No! there is no such thing as a fallen angel and everyone in this forum knows what Revelation 2:10 is really talking about and those who don't should learn.

Here's something to learn:

2Pe 2:4-5 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; (5) And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;

 

[Hiddenthings]

Here's something to learn:

2Pe 2:4-5 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; (5) And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;

Yeah, we’re familiar with the story about the earth swallowing Dathan, Korah, and Abiram.

We are talking about today Stumpmaster!

How many faithful people in your community have been thrown in prison for their faith!

 

[Hiddenthings]

Here’s an insight for you @Stumpmaster & @Aunty Jane

Your devil only operates in oppressive third-world countries where Christianity is banned.

Strange that...don't you think?

 

[Hiddenthings]

@Stumpmaster

You know the real issue here is the widespread misunderstanding surrounding this topic. Not once has anyone actually pointed out the Master’s words in Revelation 2:10:

“Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and for ten days you will have tribulation. Be faithful unto death, and I will give you the crown of life.” Rev 2:10

In this context, the authorities act as false accusers who persecute by imprisoning believers.

1. No mention of being able to avoid the test
2. No mention of it being a lack of faith to be incarcerated.
3. For the testing of faith will they be persecuted.

Such a lame doctrine you hold to its ridiculous.

Jane probably won’t respond, and if she does, it will likely be filled with excuses, what-ifs, maybes, and perhaps.

 

[Hiddenthings]

Stumpmaster has left the building!

 

[Debp]

I know a christian who tipped off the British police about a black drugs gang but the cowardly cops took no action.
Then the gang complained that he was "harassing" them by watching them through his binoculars, so the police swooped smoothly into action and arrested HIM, and he got a 3 month prison sentence, you couldn't make it up !
Perhaps the devil was behind it and hoped to break his spirit, but he simply laughed it off and took it in his stride.
"It's okay" he said with a smile to his shocked solicitor as he was led out of court in handcuffs, "I hadn't got anything planned for the next 3 months anyway"

I love the attitude of your friend when he got sentenced! lol

I sometimes watch Tousi TV....Tommy Robinson getting persecuted for trying to warn people of those things happening in the UK now. And even Tousi TV owner said he might have to leave the UK because their content is going to be watched and controlled.

 

[Aunty Jane]

You know the real issue here is the widespread misunderstanding surrounding this topic. Not once has anyone actually pointed out the Master’s words in Revelation 2:10:

“Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and for ten days you will have tribulation. Be faithful unto death, and I will give you the crown of life.” Rev 2:10

Your posts are becoming somewhat of a joke HT.....read the scripture you just quoted..... read the words you didn’t highlight in red....”the devil is ABOUT to throw SOME of you into prison”....
The word “about” was something immanent....and the word “some” indicated that not all would suffer this fate. The Revelation is about our day......and yes “some” of my brotherhood are suffering imprisonment for their faith right now.
Just read like you have comprehension. OK?

In this context, the authorities act as false accusers who persecute by imprisoning believers.

1. No mention of being able to avoid the test
2. No mention of it being a lack of faith to be incarcerated.
3. For the testing of faith will they be persecuted.

Which describes our experience. They do not wildly protest their arrest, but actually expect what Jesus said would take place.....nor do they incite others to riot, because of the injustice, but quietly accept what Jehovah allows, and appeal to higher authorities for justice to be done. Some of those nations have freedom of religion in their constitution, but fail to honour it. Jehovah can take care of his own.

Such a lame doctrine you hold to its ridiculous.

Jane probably won’t respond, and if she does, it will likely be filled with excuses, what-ifs, maybes, and perhaps.

Perhaps you should read some of your own lame doctrines.....? Your own posts are filled with “excuses, what-ifs, maybes, and perhaps.”

The devil is a real entity because Jesus was a sinless man who was not at all challenged by a sinful human nature that he did not have. If you don’t believe the devil is real....he’s already gotcha.

Why must you challenge people so rudely and with derision? You come across as a prideful individual, not at all Christ-like. Take a good look in the mirror.....the one finger you are pointing at others means there are three pointed back at you.

You are a legend only in your own lunchtime.....back off.....you are making a fool of yourself.

 

[Hiddenthings]

Your posts are becoming somewhat of a joke HT.....read the scripture you just quoted..... read the words you didn’t highlight in red....”the devil is ABOUT to throw SOME of you into prison”....

"Correct — the authorities had been influenced by the Judaizers and were preparing to imprison the believers

The word “about” was something immanent....and the word “some” indicated that not all would suffer this fate. The Revelation is about our day......and yes “some” of my brotherhood are suffering imprisonment for their faith right now.
Just read like you have comprehension. OK?

The letter is dealing with the church in Smyrna Jane.

Which describes our experience. They do not wildly protest their arrest, but actually expect what Jesus said would take place.....nor do they incite others to riot, because of the injustice, but quietly accept what Jehovah allows, and appeal to higher authorities for justice to be done. Some of those nations have freedom of religion in their constitution, but fail to honour it. Jehovah can take care of his own.

The Roman authorities were to be feared Jane for their treatment of early beleivers was terrible.

No supernatural fallen angel here though - you know this to be true and as for JW's being thrown in prison - well you know the truth of that also.

The devil is a real entity because Jesus was a sinless man who was not at all challenged by a sinful human nature that he did not have. If you don’t believe the devil is real....he’s already gotcha.

Notice how you have failed to answer the OP?

Not one mention of the JW's in Australia and not one of them thrown into prison, not one Jane!

Why is that?

Why must you challenge people so rudely and with derision? You come across as a prideful individual, not at all Christ-like. Take a good look in the mirror.....the one finger you are pointing at others means there are three pointed back at you.

You are a legend only in your own lunchtime.....back off.....you are making a fool of yourself.

The fact that you're making this personal suggests you don't have a consistent interpretation of Revelation 2:10, just as you couldn't provide one for Genesis 3:1.

How many passages do I need to raise before it's clear you can't offer a sound response?

Why imprisonment for Smyrna Jane?

The word diabolos means "false accuser." In this context, it refers to the civil authorities in Smyrna. The Spirit warned that these authorities would soon begin persecuting the local ecclesia, falsely accusing believers of crimes they did not commit and imprisoning them as a result.

In Ephesians 6:11, Paul also refers to the civil authorities using the term diabolos. Similarly, in 1 Peter 5:8, we read about "your adversary the devil" (diabolos), where the word adversary (antidikos) refers to a legal opponent. These opponents, often involved in legal persecution would bring false charges against the brethren, thus earning the label diabolos.

In the case of Revelation 2:10, these false accusers were successful in their legal actions, leading to the imprisonment of some believers.

Jane, if you take time to understand how these words are used in their proper context, you might not find yourself in this situation.

 

[Muna]

Here are some connections between Satan, tribulation, the use of human agency and the patience of the saints (see the patience of Job) as tribulation worketh patience.

James 5:10 Take, my brethren, the prophets, who have spoken in the name of the Lord, for an example of suffering affliction, and of patience.

And tribulation worketh patience Rom 5:3

The patience of Job that is mentioned, has to do with the tribulation he endured

As James write,

James 5:11 Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.

The LORD turning his captivity in th end

Job 42:10 And the LORD turned the captivity of Job, when he prayed for his friends: also the LORD gave Job twice as much as he had before.

Job's tribulation begins here

Job 1:9 Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?

Satan's expressed desire is shared with Simon

Luke 22:31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat

And to Satan's request concerning Job the LORD replies

John 1:12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power

And Jesus to Simon on Satan's desire to sift him

Luke 22:32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren. (Follow through into 1Peter 1:5-7)

And Jesus to one of the Seven churches concerning the devil (which is Satan) says,

Rev 2:12 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

Paul (when Saul) played a hand in the same when he says,

Acts 26:10 Which thing I also did in Jerusalem: and many of the saints did I shut up in prison, having received authority from the chief priests; and when they were put to death, I gave my voice against them.

Satan is shown using human agency also as he did so in Job

Job 1:15 And the Sabeans fell upon them in Job.

As with the Pharsisees (of the which Saul was) who himself shut up the saints in prison. Jesus called the Pharisees (John 8:13) of their father the devil John 8:44

 

[Hiddenthings]

Here are some connections between Satan, tribulation, the use of human agency and the patience of the saints (see the patience of Job) as tribulation worketh patience.

James 5:10 Take, my brethren, the prophets, who have spoken in the name of the Lord, for an example of suffering affliction, and of patience.

And tribulation worketh patience Rom 5:3

The patience of Job that is mentioned, has to do with the tribulation he endured

As James write,

James 5:11 Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.

The LORD turning his captivity in th end

Job 42:10 And the LORD turned the captivity of Job, when he prayed for his friends: also the LORD gave Job twice as much as he had before.

Job's tribulation begins here

Job 1:9 Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?

Satan's expressed desire is shared with Simon

Luke 22:31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat

And to Satan's request concerning Job the LORD replies

John 1:12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power

And Jesus to Simon on Satan's desire to sift him

Luke 22:32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren. (Follow through into 1Peter 1:5-7)

And Jesus to one of the Seven churches concerning the devil (which is Satan) says,

Rev 2:12 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

Paul (when Saul) played a hand in the same when he says,

Acts 26:10 Which thing I also did in Jerusalem: and many of the saints did I shut up in prison, having received authority from the chief priests; and when they were put to death, I gave my voice against them.

Satan is shown using human agency also as he did so in Job

Job 1:15 And the Sabeans fell upon them in Job.

As with the Pharsisees (of the which Saul was) who himself shut up the saints in prison. Jesus called the Pharisees (John 8:13) of their father the devil John 8:44

The satan was a powerless, envious believer, someone familiar with Job and clearly aware of the blessings and favour he enjoyed.

 

[Aunty Jane]

The satan was a powerless, envious believer, someone familiar with Job and clearly aware of the blessings and favour he enjoyed.

For goodness sake…read the story in the Bible…..I mean, read what it says, not what you want it to say….
Your protestations do not mesh with what the Bible says about satan at all….but you have your fingers in your ears and cannot hear a word of truth because you don’t want to. You’d have to abandon your whole belief system.

 

[Hiddenthings]

For goodness sake…read the story in the Bible…..I mean, read what it says, not what you want it to say….
Your protestations do not mesh with what the Bible says about satan at all….but you have your fingers in your ears and cannot hear a word of truth because you don’t want to. You’d have to abandon your whole belief system.

Special pleading does not work Jane.

Explain why your satan / devil is not casting your believers into prison today.

I'm trying to appeal to your sense of logic but its not working.

 

[Muna]

Hebrews 11:36 And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment

 

[Hiddenthings]

Hebrews 11:36 And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment

Yes - not done by a fallen angel but the signs of their times!

 

[Hiddenthings]

Ultimately, what @Aunty Jane needs to acknowledge is that the context of Revelation 2:10 is not referring to the activity of a supernatural evil being, but rather to the political and social circumstances of the time. It was under those pressures that believers were imprisoned, unlike the situation today, where her fellow Jehovah’s Witnesses in Australia are not facing such persecution.

It's intellectually dishonest for her to ignore this reality. Once it's acknowledged, the cracks in her theological framework begin to show, and what remains is the opportunity to face the truth.

 

[Aunty Jane]

The letter is dealing with the church in Smyrna Jane.

Yes...one of the seven congregations that Jesus addressed....types of congregations that exist today.

The Roman authorities were to be feared Jane for their treatment of early beleivers was terrible.

Yes, and their history shows why Jesus said what he did to them.

No supernatural fallen angel here though - you know this to be true and as for JW's being thrown in prison - well you know the truth of that also.

So scriptures like 1 John 5:19 and Eph 6:10-12 have no significance to you because you cannot believe in a real devil.....’the wicked “one” who controls the whole world’...and who leads ‘the wicked spirit forces in the heavenly places’.

You have no knowledge of JW’s and what they have endured in these last days.....we try very hard to be law abiding citizens, so you won’t find the jails full of law breakers who identify as Jehovah’s Witnesses....you will however find us on the other side of the law if we are commanded by the government to do what God forbids......or to refrain from doing what God commands.....only then will you find us in prison. We too are conscientious objectors.

Did you know that JW’s have been specific targets in wartime because of our refusal to take up arms and kill our fellow man for purely political reasons. We will not participate in any war related activities because we are not to be part of any of it.
In the Holocaust Museum in NYC there is a special section given to Jehovah’s Witnesses who steadfastly refused to serve in Hitler’s army or to give that leader a religious salute. “Heil Hitler” was the German version of “Hail Caesar”, who was viewed as a Roman god.

Many of my brothers were killed in the concentration camps and died for their faith.
In other nations my brothers are in prison even today for refusing military service, or because they refused to stop their preaching work, because we are to be “no part of the word” therefore no part of its bloodshed and violence, (John 18:36; Rom 12:17-21) and we will not be silenced regarding the work that Jesus gave to all of his disciples. (Matt 24:14; Matt 28:19-20; Acts 20:20)

Notice how you have failed to answer the OP?

The OP is nothing but click bait for you to promote your own beliefs whilst deriding anyone who disagrees with you.....there is no dilemma except in your own imagination. it’s not that you cannot believe in the devil, but that he has led you to believe that he doesn’t exist....he is laughing at how easy it is to fool people. Nothing to see here.....it’s all just normal human behavior. Jesus was talking to himself….

Ever heard of the word “inhuman”? Look it up....it means “not human in nature or character”.....there is a certain level of evil that does not originate from humans made in God’s image. They originate from outside the human race. Where do you suppose that might be?

Not one mention of the JW's in Australia and not one of them thrown into prison, not one Jane!

Why is that?

I have addressed that already. The last days are not over yet.

How many passages do I need to raise before it's clear you can't offer a sound response?

Why imprisonment for Smyrna Jane?

You don’t accept anything but your own responses as “sound”. You have a little “I” trouble.

The word diabolos means "false accuser." In this context, it refers to the civil authorities in Smyrna. The Spirit warned that these authorities would soon begin persecuting the local ecclesia, falsely accusing believers of crimes they did not commit and imprisoning them as a result.

Who do you think controls the world? Who delivered all the kingdoms of the world over to the devil? (Luke 4:5-7) He could not offer to Jesus what was not his to give....did Jesus protest and tell him he was not the ruler of the world he was trying tempt him with? Was he talking to himself?

In Ephesians 6:11, Paul also refers to the civil authorities using the term diabolos. Similarly, in 1 Peter 5:8, we read about "your adversary the devil" (diabolos), where the word adversary (antidikos) refers to a legal opponent. These opponents, often involved in legal persecution would bring false charges against the brethren, thus earning the label diabolos.

Yes…..these civil authorities are all under the control of the devil who rules this world…..and by God’s permission, for a very good reason……one you are not able to even comprehend….are you blind?

The “signs of the times” exist because of the evil adversary who is creating the chaos…..(2 Cor 4:3-4)

In the case of Revelation 2:10, these false accusers were successful in their legal actions, leading to the imprisonment of some believers.

Since Revelation is about what happens in “the Lord’s day” you first have to understand the time frame.
Wait and see what the near future holds…Jesus will inform us all of how it is.

Jane, if you take time to understand how these words are used in their proper context, you might not find yourself in this situation.

I am not in a “situation” HT…..you are creating the situation with your own beliefs.…that is entirely your problem. I know what I believe and why I believe it. You are welcome to yours, but the desperation is beginning to show. Give it a rest or you will force me to put you on “ignore”. Stop tagging me. You have nothing of interest to share with me…..can you be told again to back off….?

 

[Hiddenthings]

@Aunty Jane, it seems clear you're not truly engaging with the truth of Revelation 2:10 or the reality seen in your own community. It might be best if you choose to ignore me going forward, as I intend to carefully examine your replies and highlight how they consistently avoid truth, often twisting or manipulating the text rather than addressing it directly.

It's terrible to watch, painful in fact.