Is it possible to lose salvation?

[Behold]

Right from God though the church he established on the rock of Peter.

The Church is established on Jesus.
How do you know?
Its because Jesus, and not Peter died on The Cross which birthed the NT Church.
If Peter died for the sin of the world.... JOHN 3:16..... then keep shoveling your MaryCult lies, as you've been trained and if not ,then put your shovel away. @nedsk .
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[nedsk]

God never rejects faith in Christ.

where did I say he did? This is why you are not to be taken seriously

 

[nedsk]

The Church is established on Jesus.
How do you know?
Its because Jesus, and not Peter died on The Cross which birthed the NT Church.
If Peter died for the sin of the world.... JOHN 3:16..... then keep shoveling your MaryCult lies, as you've been trained and if not ,then put your shovel away. @nedsk .
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And I say to you: You are Peter and on this rock I will build my church and the gates of the netherworld will not prevail against it.

What that means is all your hatred for the church is meaningless and will never destroy it. You will be destroyed before the church will. Another reason you should be ignored. Your "teachings" are heretical.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Right from God though the church he established on the rock of Peter. Only one church can even begin to trace it's history back to Peter and it sure as heck isn't whatever "church" you might go to.

See this is where you err. Jesus did ot establish the church on Peter, but on what Peter said:

Matthew 16:16-19

King James Version

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16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

See, Jesus called Cephas Petros= a pebble or small stone, And Jesus called what Peter said: "Thou art the christ, the son of the living God" Petra which is a massive ledge or cliff or huge boulder!

The church is built upon the fact that jesus is the christ!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

You need Bible citations for 1 and 2

Well those are the definitional uses of the word tradition. If you want biblical usages- a concordance is your good friend.

 

[nedsk]

See this is where you err. Jesus did ot establish the church on Peter, but on what Peter said:

Matthew 16:16-19​

​

King James Version​

​

​

16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

See, Jesus called Cephas Petros= a pebble or small stone, And Jesus called what Peter said: "Thou art the christ, the son of the living God" Petra which is a massive ledge or cliff or huge boulder!

The church is built upon the fact that jesus is the christ!

That's not what Jesus said

 

[nedsk]

Well those are the definitional uses of the word tradition. If you want biblical usages- a concordance is your good friend.

No YOU used them now show the definition from Scripture. You're the sola scriptura guy here

 

[GodsGrace]

Jesus said - "The work God requires is to believe in the one he has sent" (John 6:28)
So full marks to monks for shutting themselves away from the distractions of the world in order to get closer to God.
At the other extreme are worldly workaholics who are work-obsessed.
For example my late dad was a workaholic, he once said to my mother "That shoe factory's my life" and he wanted me to be like him.
When I left school he used to hammer on my bedroom door at the crack of dawn yelling "Get out of bed and look for a job, they're crying out for people at the glue factory", but I thought "Oh stick it" and turned over and went back to sleep because i didn't feel it was my calling.

No one is shut away from the world Treeline.
Have you ever visited a Sanctuary?
I don't think so.

They have to grow their food, depend on others for some things...
keep up their bldg....
deal with the same problems we deal with.

They wake up at 5AM to pray,,,some even earlier.
They devote their life to God even more than a priest does.

And the work of God is to believe in the one He sent.

Do we all know what BELIEVE means?
It sure doesn't seem like it to me reading what some post on these Forums (not you).

 

[nedsk]

No one is shut away from the world Treeline.
Have you ever visited a Sanctuary?
I don't think so.

They have to grow their food, depend on others for some things...
keep up their bldg....
deal with the same problems we deal with.

They wake up at 5AM to pray,,,some even earlier.
They devote their life to God even more than a priest does.

And the work of God is to believe in the one He sent.

Do we all know what BELIEVE means?
It sure doesn't seem like it to me reading what some post on these Forums (not you).

Did you mean a cloister ?

 

[GodsGrace]

Did you mean a cloister ?

Not sure....
I went to a Sanctuary for over 10 years and studied with a monk....
there were about 8 of them...
they lived there...away from "civilization". (not really).
Priests go to them for confession.

You know,,,I'm not sure!

Here's a link: I see that they're called "eremiti". Hermits.

Eremo Santuario della Beata Vergine del Soccorso - Wikipedia

it.wikipedia.org

 

[nedsk]

Not sure....
I went to a Sanctuary for over 10 years and studied with a monk....
there were about 8 of them...
they lived there...away from "civilization". (not really).
Priests go to them for confession.

You know,,,I'm not sure!

Here's a link: I see that they're called "eremiti". Hermits.

Eremo Santuario della Beata Vergine del Soccorso - Wikipedia

it.wikipedia.org

As I thought it's a hermitage. Thanks.

 

[Muna]

Show where Paul says "don't ring the bells". I'll wait here

I think you missed it, I stated the traditions Paul is speaking of in the context of the tradition in 2 Thes as laid out has nothing to do with "the ringing of bells" sort of things.

Try rereading that again.

 

[nedsk]

I think you missed it, I stated the traditions Paul is speaking of in the context of the tradition in 2 Thes as laid out has nothing to do with "the ringing of bells" sort of things.

Try rereading that again.

I think you missed it, I stated the traditions Paul is speaking of in the context of the tradition in 2 Thes as laid out has nothing to do with "the ringing of bells" sort of things.

Try rereading that again.

No need to. In 2 Thes Paul is not specific about which traditions he is talking about

 

[David Lamb]

No need to. In 2 Thes Paul is not specific about which traditions he is talking about

But the context shows what traditions he means:

“13 ¶ But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth, 14 to which He called you by our gospel, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or our epistle.” (2Th 2:13-15 NKJV)

That word "Therefore" at the start of verse 15 refers the reader back to the previous two verses, salvation, sanctification, belief in the truth.

 

[nedsk]

But the context shows what traditions he means:

“13 ¶ But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth, 14 to which He called you by our gospel, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or our epistle.” (2Th 2:13-15 NKJV)

That word "Therefore" at the start of verse 15 refers the reader back to the previous two verses, salvation, sanctification, belief in the truth.

Salvation, sanctification and belief are not traditions, actions are traditions.

 

[LoveYeshua]

But the context shows what traditions he means:

“13 ¶ But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth, 14 to which He called you by our gospel, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or our epistle.” (2Th 2:13-15 NKJV)

That word "Therefore" at the start of verse 15 refers the reader back to the previous two verses, salvation, sanctification, belief in the truth.

Agreed and I will add my 2 cents;

In 2 Thessalonians 2:15, Paul says: “stand firm and hold to the traditions we taught you, whether by word or by letter.”

The word traditions here means teachings or instructions that were passed on. It does not mean human customs, rituals, or church-made traditions. In the Greek, the word paradosis simply means “what has been handed down.” So Paul is speaking of the same gospel message he had already preached to them. Specifically:

The message about Jesus, that He is the promised Messiah, the Son of God, who was crucified, rose again, and gives eternal life to those who believe in Him. The call to live holy lives, to turn away from idols, sins, and lawlessness, and to walk in obedience to God. The hope of His return, that Jesus will come again in glory, raise the dead, and judge the world.
When Paul says “whether by word or by letter,” he means that whether he spoke it in person or wrote it down, they were to keep holding fast to the same teachings about Jesus that the apostles were passing on.

Blessings.

 

[nedsk]

Agreed and I will add my 2 cents;

In 2 Thessalonians 2:15, Paul says: “stand firm and hold to the traditions we taught you, whether by word or by letter.”

The word traditions here means teachings or instructions that were passed on. It does not mean human customs, rituals, or church-made traditions. In the Greek, the word paradosis simply means “what has been handed down.” So Paul is speaking of the same gospel message he had already preached to them. Specifically:

The message about Jesus, that He is the promised Messiah, the Son of God, who was crucified, rose again, and gives eternal life to those who believe in Him. The call to live holy lives, to turn away from idols, sins, and lawlessness, and to walk in obedience to God. The hope of His return, that Jesus will come again in glory, raise the dead, and judge the world.
When Paul says “whether by word or by letter,” he means that whether he spoke it in person or wrote it down, they were to keep holding fast to the same teachings about Jesus that the apostles were passing on.

Blessings.

Oh course it means actions because that what the word traditions means. You people think parroting the magic incantation brings salvation. That's a tradition (action) based on your belief and faith that it will bring salvation. When you have to tell me what the words mean than I'm listening to you and not scripture.

 

[Muna]

No need to. In 2 Thes Paul is not specific about which traditions he is talking about

Why not reply to scriptures concerning the tradition as they speak there, rather than simply pulling out my mention that the tradition Paul was speaking about had nothing to do with "the ringing of bells" there?

Traditions again, this way,

2Thes 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle. (See 2 Thes 3:10 below) concerning what was taught them in word (when they were with them).

Tradition here

2 Thes 3:6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.

"WALK disorderly" NOT AFTER (( the tradition )) RECEIVED OF US already (Again 2Thes 3:10)

He is telling them how they ought follow them after the manner of their BEHAVIOR (Paul having set himself out as a specific example for them to follow when they were actually with them). And this they taught them by mouth or in WORD (See 2Thes 3:10 again)

As he goes on to say

2 Thes 3:7 For yourselves KNOW how ye ought to follow us: for WE BEHAVED NOT ourselves DISORDERLY among you

They were witnesses of their behavior and so know how to behave.

But there SOME, which "WALKETH disorderly" NOT AFTER the tradition RECEIVED OF US

This is speaking of THEIR WALKS, whether "WALKING orderly" (as Paul did) when he was among them as a living an example for them. As Paul says, "You yourselves know" or, because "When we were with you" (which he is NOT now) but rather is NOW writing to them exactly what they commanded them IN PERSON (which is by WORD, or by MOUTH) to "walk orderly"

Another example of by word (mouth) and by letter/and or epistle are shown to us in Acts 15:27 which would be a safegard for them. So after sending letters, they say, "We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth."

So again, if this is not clear enough by now, this tradition has to do with ones behavior, which was demonstrated for them in person, which is that which is after the tradition they received of them (both by word/commanded of them but also exemplified by them in person)

2 Thes 3:10 For even WHEN WE WERE with you, ((( this ))) we commanded you, ((( that ))) if any would not work, neither should he eat.

So there it is, Paul is now writing in this very epistle what they actually commanded them in word (when he was actually with them). And he is doing this because they are no longer with them and are HEARING THINGS (being away) about some among them now, who are not walking after the tradition they had previously received of them.

As Paul points out here

2 Thes 3:11 For "WE HEAR" (being away from them now) that there are some which "WALK among you" DISORDERLY, "WORKING NOT AT ALL", but "are busybodies".

These are they who "WALK disorderly" and "NOT after the tradition" they received of them when they were with them

2 Thes 3:12 Now them that are such we command (again, See 2Thes 3:10) and exhort by our Lord Jesus Christ, that "with quietness THEY WORK, and EAT THEIR OWN BREAD."

And so Paul ends with

2 Thes 3:14 And if any man obey not our word (now) by "THIS EPISTLE", note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed.

So whether by word or by epistle they spake the same things, Paul demonstrates this here, and so does Acts 15:27 when a letter was sent what followed were those confirming the same by mouth.

This demonstrates that this is not "the ringing of bells" sort of traditions, but a tradition that after a walk and patern of behavior that the apostles demonstrated and expected them to walk in.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

That's not what Jesus said

That is exactly what Jesus said and if you knew any sense of grammar you would know that.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

No YOU used them now show the definition from Scripture. You're the sola scriptura guy here

I gave you the definitions of the words. Those definitions are what are used by the writers of Scripture. I do not know what else you are looking for.