Elijah shall come before Christ?

[Zao is life]

Friends, John the Baptist himself confessed that he is not Elijah, what am i missing here?

"Write the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be after this." (Revelation 1:19).

The things they had seen was John the Baptist, who had pointed them to Jesus.

The things which were (at the time), was Christ talking to Moses and Elijah, and then answering their question.

The things which shall be is the first part of the reply Jesus gave:

The things which shall be:

"And answering Jesus said to them, Elijah truly shall come first and shall restore all things."

The things they had seen:

"But I say to you that Elijah has come already, and they did not know him, but have done to him whatever they desired. Likewise also the Son of man shall suffer from them."

This: "Then His disciples understood that He spoke to them about John the Baptist"

- is related to the things which they had seen, IMO.

ALSO (very importantly) Jesus commanded those whom He appointed, to declare whatever He tells them in secret openly, shouting it from the rooftops. God does not hide mystery in vague and intriguing statements and then make people pay money to hear the rest.
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If/when Elijah comes, he will not be vague and intriguing, attempting to wet people's appetite with a mystery while withholding part of that mystery (as is the practice in mystery cults) and then ask for money for the revelation of the rest ("buy my book and I will reveal the rest to you in there"). A false prophet will do things like that, in my opinion.

But if Elijah truly shall come, then until then what Jesus said, is a mystery, IMO.

 

[Muna]

As far as the last prophet Jesus said,

Matt 23:34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:

And so we see here this is so

Acts 11:27 And in these days came prophets from Jerusalem unto Antioch.

 

[WitnessX]

But wasn't the prophecy in Malachi 4:5 be speaking of John (Luke 1:17) as the one coming in the spirit and power of Elijah, And so "he (John) shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse."

Because it does show Elisha (who follows aftet Elijah) even as Jesus comes after John was the one that turned back and cursed these mocking children

2 Kings 2:24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.

THEY WERE CUTOFF REQUIRING A SECOND COMING.

stop asking the same question in different ways. I provided THE answer. PERIOD.

 

[Muna]

THEY WERE CUTOFF REQUIRING A SECOND COMING.

stop asking the same question in different ways. I provided THE answer. PERIOD.

I am not taking your word for anything.

What is it with all these Karens today

 

[ScottA]

But wasn't the prophecy in Malachi 4:5 be speaking of John (Luke 1:17) as the one coming in the spirit and power of Elijah, And so "he (John) shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse."

Because it does show Elisha (who follows aftet Elijah) even as Jesus comes after John was the one that turned back and cursed these mocking children

2 Kings 2:24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.

You are perhaps finding and loosing things in the same passages. I mean, the details are likely not helping.

The parallel--and perhaps the confusion--is that the "forty-two" refers only to the house of Israel for which Christ first came. This is the first half of seven days, which Daniel spoke of--but that is just more confusing detail if you are not first understanding that Daniel's prophecy was not a new prophecy, but a retelling of the prophecy given in the beginning of the seven days of creation--after which came the confusion upon all language at Babel.

It is actually better to start fresh knowing that everything past Babel is full of confusing pitfalls, causing "Of making many books there is no end, and much study is wearisome to the flesh" (Ecclesiastes 12:12)...which many never recover from.

 

[marks]

I have no idea what you are even talking about here

This is the say that the Mosaic Covenant, as it is often called, was when Israel made a covenant with God at Mt. Horeb. God said that He'd make them His special people, in return for their obedience. The people answered "All that you say we will do", promising to obey. So beginning with the Law, and continuing through the Prophets, God gave His commands to Israel for them to obey. This began with Moses, and ended with John the Baptist.

Much love!

 

[Zao is life]

They were in fact cursed with the diaspora to last another almost 2000 years. So God did come and smite the earth with a curse.

But, praise God, Jesus became a curse - for them, and for us. So they were not cursed forever.

But I agree. He was cut off:

Isaiah 53:8 says "for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.";

and Daniel 9:26 says, "after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself."

He was cut off because those for whom He had come (His own) had handed Him over to be crucified, and ironically He died for their sins and ours as a result. By their actions they helped fulfill that half of the prophecy, but the suffering servant did not complete the 70th seven because though He became the suffering servant, the Lamb of God, He was cut off in the midst of it (after the first 69 weeks), and He was thus prevented from fulfilling the rest to become the Lion of Judah, the King who would save them from their enemies in a literal sense.

Maranatha!

 

[Muna]

This is the say that the Mosaic Covenant, as it is often called, was when Israel made a covenant with God at Mt. Horeb. God said that He'd make them His special people, in return for their obedience. The people answered "All that you say we will do", promising to obey. So beginning with the Law, and continuing through the Prophets, God gave His commands to Israel for them to obey. This began with Moses, and ended with John the Baptist.

Much love!

I'm not even there marks, this is not what I am doing here

 

[Muna]

You are perhaps finding and loosing things in the same passages. I mean, the details are likely not helping.

The parallel--and perhaps the confusion--is that the "forty-two" refers only to the house of Israel for which Christ first came. This is the first half of seven days, which Daniel spoke of--but that is just more confusing detail if you are not first understanding that Daniel's prophecy was not a new prophecy, but a retelling of the prophecy given in the beginning of the seven days of creation--after which came the confusion upon all language at Babel.

It is actually better to start fresh knowing that everything past Babel is full of confusing pitfalls, causing "Of making many books there is no end, and much study is wearisome to the flesh" (Ecclesiastes 12:12)...which many never recover from.

I have no idea where you are going here

 

[ScottA]

Elijah comes to turn God's heart toward us? We love Him because He first loved us.

Much love!

Yes, and our hearts to Him.

But the point is--the passage does not only refer to the future, but to the times of all God's children. Elijah lived as a witness of ascension without dying, fulfilled in Christ...who was slain before the foundation of the world--thereby including those who were, who are, and are to come.

In other words, the lives set before all since Adam, God gave to "turn The hearts of the fathers to the children, And the hearts of the children to their fathers."

 

[Zao is life]

I have no idea where you are going here

Without saying it openly he implies not only that he's a prophet, but THE prophet - who he claims has been sent by God to reveal whatever the seven thunders uttered that were sealed - because he claims the seventh trumpet is now about to sound

- but you must pay money for the rest, because you need to buy his book for the rest.

That's why when I said that it's a mystery what Jesus said and that IMO Elijah may still come, he replied that the mystery is his: "Mine is the mystery", he said.

 

[Muna]

Without saying it openly he implies not only that he's a prophet, but THE prophet - who he claims has been sent by God to reveal whatever the seven thunders uttered that were sealed - because he claims the seventh trumpet is now about to sound

- but you must pay money for the rest, because you need to buy his book for the rest.

That's why when I said that it's a mystery what Jesus said and that IMO Elijah may still come, he replied that the mystery is his: "Mine is the mystery", he said.

Thanks for the heads up,

I had always wondered, if this here

Rev 10:4 when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me,

Seal up those things which the Seven thunders uttered, and write them not.

Was somehow being spoken of here in some way

2 Cr 12:4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter

But this was speaking of ScottA
(who might have a special persission not given to either John or Paul )

 

[WitnessX]

I am not taking your word for anything.

What is it with all these Karens today

You’re like a child that keeps asking why when you were clearly provided the answer.

I provided the scripture, context and evidence. You’re dismissed to the ignore list.

 

[Muna]

You’re like a child that keeps asking why when you were clearly provided the answer.

I provided the scripture, context and evidence. You’re dismissed to the ignore list.

What did I do to deserve such a gift?

Thank you!

 

[Zao is life]

Thanks for the heads up,

I had always wondered, if this here

Rev 10:4 when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me,

Seal up those things which the Seven thunders uttered, and write them not.

Was somehow being spoken of here in some way

2 Cr 12:4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter

But this was speaking of ScottA
(who might have a special persission not given to either John or Paul )

I do not think Paul was speaking of anyone who posts in these boards!! That person lived a long time ago.

I don't even want to know or ask Scott to clarify what this below is:

This specifically refers to our Father God, or Satan.

The coming of Christ diverted the complete annihilation of this world, including all who sin.

 

[Muna]

I do not think Paul was speaking of anyone who posts in these boards!! That person lived a long time ago.

I could have put that tongue n' cheek response a little better

I agree, it certainly wasn't prophesying of such a one that would come to reveal what was never written down for us or even shown as lawful for a man to speak in either case.

There would be no way to prove anything someone said were just made up out of their own heads, so it would be ridiculous to send someone forth with such a message. I would never buy it.

But some folks are gullible.

I don't even want to know or ask Scott to clarify what this below is:

Wowza, alrighty then.

 

[Zao is life]

I could have put that tongue n' cheek response a little better

I agree, it certainly wasn't prophesying of such a one that would come to reveal what was never written down for us or even shown as lawful for a man to speak in either case.

There would be no way to prove anything someone said were just made up out of their own heads, so it would be ridiculous to send someone forth with such a message. I would never buy it.

But some folks are gullible.



Wowza, alrighty then.

I wasn't sure whether you meant it could be our resident 'prophet' so I was just being clear about what I don't believe. Sorry about that.

But I get that you drew the comparison to what John was told not to write and what Paul said about the man who had been caught up to heaven - but to the very best of Christian historical knowledge, Paul wrote about that man a while before John saw what he saw.

There was more than one prophet during those days. I mean real prophet.

 

[Muna]

I wasn't sure whether you meant it could be our resident 'prophet' so I was just being clear about what I don't believe. Sorry about that.

But I get that you drew the comparison to what John was told not to write and what Paul said about the man who had been caught up to heaven - but to the very best of Christian historical knowledge, Paul wrote about that man a while before John saw what he saw.

There was more than one prophet during those days. I mean real prophet.

I do agree as far as we are informed historically concerning the timing between the two. But I used to wonder if they were speaking of the same thing in one man. Seeing both were apparently caught up (although Paul could not tell whether it was in the body or out of the body) and would both hear things which were not lawful to speak.

I used to wonder, could this be speaking of the same person because the event would fit if one were not after the other. So I can't really do that, it would just be coincidental as far as the event itself being similar but is still shown us between the both of them.

I couldn't make that work because of the supposed dates between them, but it's still cool to see John was not alone in being caught up and both were not to speak of what they heard.

 

[JohnDB]

Mal’aḵi (Malachi) 4:5-6 TS2009
[5] “See, I am sending you Ěliyah the prophet before the coming of the great and awesome day of יהוה. [6] “And he shall turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the hearts of the children to their fathers, lest I come and strike the earth with utter destruction.”

Mal’aḵi (Malachi) 4:5-6 “See, I am sending you Ěliyah the prophet before the coming of the great and awesome day of יהוה. “And he shall turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the hearts of the children to their | The Scriptures 2009 (T

“See, I am sending you Ěliyah the prophet before the coming of the great and awesome day of יהוה. “And he shall turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the hearts of the children to their

bible.com

This is what God said. BUT what did John Say? What scripture was he referencing?

Yeshayah (Isaiah) 40:2-3 TS2009
[2] “Speak to the heart of Yerushalayim, and cry out to her, that her hard service is completed, that her crookedness is pardoned, that she has received from the hand of יהוה double for all her sins.” [3] The voice of one crying in the wilderness, “Prepare the way of יהוה; make straight in the desert a highway for our Elohim.

Yeshayah (Isaiah) 40:2-3 “Speak to the heart of Yerushalayim, and cry out to her, that her hard service is completed, that her crookedness is pardoned, that she has received from the hand of יהוה double for all her sins.” The | The Scriptures 2009 (T

“Speak to the heart of Yerushalayim, and cry out to her, that her hard service is completed, that her crookedness is pardoned, that she has received from the hand of יהוה double for all her sins.” The

bible.com

John the Baptist was telling them that not only the Messiah was here but God Himself was here. It was a nice way of saying that he was the front runner to God. The Malachi passage is the harsher version. John might have said he wasn't Elijah....but he really was. (Jesus said he was....and any other opinion is moot after His declaration)

John is trying to show that those who repent get good rewards from God....
Look at this verse here in chapter 40:
Yeshayah (Isaiah) 40:31 TS2009
[31] but those who wait on יהוה renew their strength, they raise up the wing like eagles, they run and are not weary, they walk and do not faint.

Yeshayah (Isaiah) 40:31 but those who wait on יהוה renew their strength, they raise up the wing like eagles, they run and are not weary, they walk and do not faint. | The Scriptures 2009 (TS2009) | Download The Bible App Now

but those who wait on יהוה renew their strength, they raise up the wing like eagles, they run and are not weary, they walk and do not faint.

bible.com

This is what John is focused on.



And that they either repent or the entire nation was toast was the stick. And the entire Nation was toast in the end. They never saw what they needed to see or hear what they needed to hear. Just like an episode of Undercover Boss....the entire staff and management team was terminated.

 

[ScottA]

I have no idea where you are going here

As it should be. The passage speaks of something above the understanding of men, not to be revealed until...

For now I will end there, because it is obvious that you need to think it through for yourself. But since you are one to think in terms of parallels, do you not think it curious that preceding knowledge of the return of Christ, that there would be similarities to the denials from those supposedly in the know before His first appearing?