Question for Premils (Amils welcome to answer): How many times are the dead judged?

[Zao is life]

There seems to be only one judgment of the dead mentioned in the New Testament and in the Revelation:

The door that had been opened in heaven for John (immediately before he was made aware of the scroll's existence), allowed John to be able to see the throne of God, and he saw "lightnings and thunderings and voices" coming out from the throne (Revelation 4:5).

We read of "voices, thunderings, lightnings, and an earthquake" at the time of the receiving of the testimony (Exodus 20:18),

and we see it again in the scroll when the seventh trumpet sounds, and again when the seventh plague or bowl of wrath is poured out. The events of both the seventh trumpet and the seventh plague or "bowl of wrath" symbolize God's judgment.

Exodus 20:18: Receiving of the testament:

"And all the people saw the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking: and when the people saw it, they removed, and stood afar off."

7th TRUMPET

"And the temple of God was opened in Heaven, and there was seen in His temple the ark of His testament, and occurred lightnings and voices, and thunders and an earthquake, and a great hail." (Revelation 11:19).

7th PLAGUE

"And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air. And a great voice came out of the temple of Heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done! And voices and thunders and lightnings occurred. And there was a great earthquake, such as has not been since men were on the earth, so mighty and so great an earthquake." (Revelation 16:17-18).

7th SEAL (Note: a scroll is only sealed after the scroll has been written in order to seal its contents):

"And the angel took the censer and filled it with fire from the altar, and cast it into the earth. And voices and thunderings and lightnings and an earthquake occurred."

The scroll unrolled after the 7th seal was loosened, so we could view its contents - which were in place BEFORE the scroll was sealed:

"And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound." (Revelation 8:5-6).

This is not an end-times chart. Just a summary of what the passages are talking about that use the symbolism of lightnings and thunderings:

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In Joshua chapter 6 there were seven priests blowing seven trumpets announcing the decree of Jericho's impending judgment, and the walls of Jericho fell when the 7th trumpet sounded, the 7th time the Israelite tribes marched around the city, on the 7th of 7 days.

In the Revelation there are seven angels with seven trumpets announcing to the nations the decree of God regarding their impending judgment; and the cities of the nations are said to fall when the seventh of the seven angels pours out his bowl of wrath.

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Revelation 15: The temple of the tabernacle of the testimony was opened in Heaven (verse 5):

* Four beasts
* sea of glass
* those who had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, are seen standing on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

Revelation 4:

* 24 elders.
* clothed in white raiment.
* crowns of gold on their heads.
* sea of glass.
* Four beasts.
* Out of the throne proceeded lightnings, thunderings, and voices.

* The earthly tabernacle was a pattern of the 'tabernacle' in heaven.

* The testament that was in the ark of the testament in the earthly tabernacle consisted of the 10 Commandments representing all the law - and it's a testimony against us - see Jeremiah 31:31-33.

The nations seen being judged in the 7th trumpet (Revelation 11:19) are judged by the 10 commandments because without the blood of Christ covering "the mercy seat" there is no forgiveness for sins - which is the transgression of the law.

Revelation 11 (7th trumpet)

18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

Revelation 20

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

How many times are the dead judged? (there seems to be only one judgment of the dead mentioned in the New Testament and in the Revelation).

 

[Muna]

This is a fascinating approach, I haven't seen this one yet.

I cannot answer for myself in these things yet, but I hadnt noticed the thunderings and lightnings at precise times, that is pretty cool.

 

[Zao is life]

This is a fascinating approach, I haven't seen this one yet.

I cannot answer for myself in these things yet, but I hadnt noticed the thunderings and lightnings at precise times, that is pretty cool.

Hopefully placing the picture at the top won't cause readers to think I'm making an end-times chart, lol. That's not what it is. It's just a summary of what those passages are talking about to show how the symbolism they're using, is the same in each passage with regard to thunderings and lightnings.

 

[Muna]

Hopefully placing the picture at the top won't cause readers to think I'm making an end-times chart, lol. That's not what it is. It's just a summary of what those passages are talking about to show how the symbolism they're using, is the same in each passage with regard to thunderings and lightnings.

I usually think doing that is kind of corny, but I can make an exception lol

I just never saw anyone set forth the times for the thunders and lightnings before, never even thought to compare between those places. So I am glad you posted them.

Following along

 

[WPM]

There seems to be only one judgment of the dead mentioned in the New Testament and in the Revelation:

The door that had been opened in heaven for John (immediately before he was made aware of the scroll's existence), allowed John to be able to see the throne of God, and he saw "lightnings and thunderings and voices" coming out from the throne (Revelation 4:5).

We read of "voices, thunderings, lightnings, and an earthquake" at the time of the receiving of the testimony (Exodus 20:18),

and we see it again in the scroll when the seventh trumpet sounds, and again when the seventh plague or bowl of wrath is poured out. The events of both the seventh trumpet and the seventh plague or "bowl of wrath" symbolize God's judgment.

Exodus 20:18: Receiving of the testament:

"And all the people saw the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking: and when the people saw it, they removed, and stood afar off."

7th TRUMPET

"And the temple of God was opened in Heaven, and there was seen in His temple the ark of His testament, and occurred lightnings and voices, and thunders and an earthquake, and a great hail." (Revelation 11:19).

7th PLAGUE

"And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air. And a great voice came out of the temple of Heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done! And voices and thunders and lightnings occurred. And there was a great earthquake, such as has not been since men were on the earth, so mighty and so great an earthquake." (Revelation 16:17-18).

7th SEAL (Note: a scroll is only sealed after the scroll has been written in order to seal its contents):

"And the angel took the censer and filled it with fire from the altar, and cast it into the earth. And voices and thunderings and lightnings and an earthquake occurred."

The scroll unrolled after the 7th seal was loosened, so we could view its contents - which were in place BEFORE the scroll was sealed:

"And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound." (Revelation 8:5-6).

This is not an end-times chart. Just a summary of what the passages are talking about that use the symbolism of lightnings and thunderings:

View attachment 68854

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx​

In Joshua chapter 6 there were seven priests blowing seven trumpets announcing the decree of Jericho's impending judgment, and the walls of Jericho fell when the 7th trumpet sounded, the 7th time the Israelite tribes marched around the city, on the 7th of 7 days.

In the Revelation there are seven angels with seven trumpets announcing to the nations the decree of God regarding their impending judgment; and the cities of the nations are said to fall when the seventh of the seven angels pours out his bowl of wrath.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx​

Revelation 15: The temple of the tabernacle of the testimony was opened in Heaven (verse 5):

* Four beasts
* sea of glass
* those who had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, are seen standing on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

Revelation 4:

* 24 elders.
* clothed in white raiment.
* crowns of gold on their heads.
* sea of glass.
* Four beasts.
* Out of the throne proceeded lightnings, thunderings, and voices.

* The earthly tabernacle was a pattern of the 'tabernacle' in heaven.

* The testament that was in the ark of the testament in the earthly tabernacle consisted of the 10 Commandments representing all the law - and it's a testimony against us - see Jeremiah 31:31-33.

The nations seen being judged in the 7th trumpet (Revelation 11:19) are judged by the 10 commandments because without the blood of Christ covering "the mercy seat" there is no forgiveness for sins - which is the transgression of the law.

Revelation 11 (7th trumpet)

18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

Revelation 20

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

How many times are the dead judged? (there seems to be only one judgment of the dead mentioned in the New Testament and in the Revelation).

Once! That means the dead are judged at the one and future coming of Christ, which renders the millennium current and ongoing.

 

[IndianaRob]

Once! That means the dead are judged at the one and future coming of Christ, which renders the millennium current and ongoing.

Do you really think dead Christians are allowed into to heaven BEFORE the judgement? Are dead lost people “hibernating” in the ground waiting to be judged?

Seriously is that how you believe it works?

 

[WPM]

Do you really think dead Christians are allowed into to heaven BEFORE the judgement? Are dead lost people “hibernating” in the ground waiting to be judged?

Seriously is that how you believe it works?

Their souls/spirits are caught up to heaven and remain there until the bodily resurrection at the one final future coming of Christ.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Do you really think dead Christians are allowed into to heaven BEFORE the judgement?

Yes!

Are dead lost people “hibernating” in the ground waiting to be judged?

Yes!

Seriously is that how you believe it works?

Haven't you read Revelation 20?

Rev 20:4-6

• And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
• But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
• Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

How about the fact that John saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus and for the word of God. Do the "souls of" people who were beheaded live on earth? No, the souls of the dead believers live and reign in heaven with Christ right now, not on earth as ghosts or spirits or whatever. To say anything less is foolishness. So, if God says these are the souls "OF" those who have died, and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. Of necessity, it must be spiritual in heaven, not physical on earth. Souls in heaven where Christ reigns right now and have been since the Cross, not disembodied souls on earth. While the "rest" of those who died, did not live again after their physical death. Pretty straightforward I'd say.

Revelation 20:6

• "Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."

How about the fact that only these souls of the dead (souls, not people) have part in the "First Resurrection" could yet live and reign with Christ. Do you know exactly what the First Resurrection is? It is BORN AGAIN where you are made alive in Christ. So while the rest of the dead could not.

Revelation 20:5

• "But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished..."

What "Rest of those who died?" Obviously, those who died but did not have part in the First Resurrection in Christ. THey were never born again. Never regenerated. So their soul remains in the grave until the Second Coming. Read the context, as it is always important.

Can flesh and blood be raised (or reconstituted) to live and reign with Christ who has ascended to the throne? The whole idea is bankrupt of harmony with the scriptures. Only those who died in the First Resurrection could be souls that live and immediately reign with Christ.

Let me explain. We all walked spiritually dead on Earth since our birth to begin with... until some of us were born again sometimes during our lifetime with the Spirit of Christ, which made us alive again... while we are still standing on Earth. THIS is the first resurrection!

1Co 15:22

• For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

This means that when you are saved, you begin serving in Christ’s Kingdom here on earth by sharing the Gospel, even if it brings persecution or death. This is how Christ has made us kings and priests to reign with Him in His spiritual Kingdom on earth. When your flesh body finally dies, your soul immediately goes to be with Christ and continues to reign with him in heaven. Then, at the Last Trump, you will return with Christ and be united with those believers who are still "alive and remain" on Earth to meet Him together in the air.

BUT the rest of the dead, those who have NOT yet been born again with the Spirit of Christ, their bodies rot in the grave AND in their spirit, they live not again (don't have life) UNTIL they are raised to stand before the throne and be judged at the end of millennial kingdom, when Christ returns! Read the text. That is the second resurrection, which is not of rotted flesh, but of those souls who lived not again until this time of their resurrection. When are these dead raised?

Revelation 20:11-12

• "And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
• And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works."

What are these dead? Certainly not the dead that already lived and reigned with Christ being absent from the body, but the dead who lived not again (not born again yet) until the 1000 years were over. Harmony with the word, but not with Postmillennialism, Premillennialism, nor Preterism.

Selah!

 

[IndianaRob]

Their souls/spirits are caught up to heaven and remain there until the bodily resurrection at the one final future coming of Christ.

So does that mean we are in naked in heaven, unclothed, until the judgement that you say is future?

How do you reconcile us being naked in heaven with 2 Corinthians 5?

2Co 5:3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
2Co 5:4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

 

[WPM]

So does that mean we are in naked in heaven, unclothed, until the judgement that you say is future?

How do you reconcile us being naked in heaven with 2 Corinthians 5?

2Co 5:3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
2Co 5:4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

As it says! Embrace the Word, stop trying to explain it away because if what you have been taught.

 

[TribulationSigns]

So does that mean we are in naked in heaven, unclothed, until the judgement that you say is future?

What kind of dumb question is this? Naked? Unclothed until Christ's return? Can't you study the Scripture more carefully? Upon physical death, the souls of the believers go into heaven, agreed? So exactly what will they do in heaven?

Rev 6:9-11

• And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
• they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
• And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

Obviously, they are the SAME SOULS who are being clothed with white robes in heaven even since they are physically dead...All BEFORE the Second Coming! What is happening here is when they see that God has finished sealing all of his people (Revelation 7:1-4) and the Two Witnesses have finished their testimony, they cried why has not Christ done something about the enemies who have killed them. Christ explains that there will be "little season" (or short season) of Great Tribulation period for the rest of brethren to be killed (silenced), then Christ will judge His unfaithful congregation to avenge us. Here is the answer, as it is written:

Rev 18:18-20

• And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city!
• And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas, that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.
• Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.

This is what Christ promised to do AFTER all the remaining Saints who are still alive today to suffer for a little season of Great Tribulation.

How do you reconcile us being naked in heaven with 2 Corinthians 5?

2Co 5:3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
2Co 5:4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

2Co 5:1-3

• For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
• For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
• If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.

What do you think the earthly house of this tabernacle refers to? Isn't it our flesh bodies - a temporary tabernacle on Earth where Christ resides within us until we die (dissolved)? Think about it.

 

[IndianaRob]

As it says! Embrace the Word, stop trying to explain it away because if what you have been taught.

I’m just asking your opinion, are we naked in heaven - unclothed? Are you able to answer or should I just move on?

 

[TribulationSigns]

I’m just asking your opinion, are we naked in heaven - unclothed? Are you able to answer or should I just move on?

LOL. How will we be "naked" in heaven? The souls of the believers won't be "naked". They won't be physically or spiritually naked in heaven but clothed with white robes. Read my earlier responses.

 

[IndianaRob]

LOL. How will we be "naked" in heaven? The souls of the believers won't be "naked". They won't be physically or spiritually naked in heaven but clothed with white robes. Read my earlier responses.

We won’t be naked in heaven we’ll have our glorified bodies. Which is what Paul is talking about here:

2Co 5:2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
2Co 5:3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
2Co 5:4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

Yes I read your earlier post and we are too far apart in beliefs to have a discussion.

 

[grafted branch]

We won’t be naked in heaven we’ll have our glorified bodies. Which is what Paul is talking about here:

2Co 5:2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
2Co 5:3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
2Co 5:4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

Yes I read your earlier post and we are too far apart in beliefs to have a discussion.

I agree with you, I think most of us would agree that the dead believers are clothed in white robes and those robes were made possible by the work Christ did on the cross.

If there is still one final judgment then that final judgment wouldn’t include the white robe wearing believers, right? I mean I’ve never heard anyone argue that a person can have their white robe stripped off of them at a final judgment.

 

[IndianaRob]

I agree with you, I think most of us would agree that the dead believers are clothed in white robes and those robes were made possible by the work Christ did on the cross.

If there is still one final judgment then that final judgment wouldn’t include the white robe wearing believers, right? I mean I’ve never heard anyone argue that a person can have their white robe stripped off of them at a final judgment.

The white robes are the righteousness of Christ which we do have here and there but what Paul is talking about is the glorified heavenly body. Our heavenly house (body).

2Co 5:2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

 

[TribulationSigns]

We won’t be naked in heaven we’ll have our glorified bodies. Which is what Paul is talking about here:

2Co 5:2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
2Co 5:3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
2Co 5:4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

Yes I read your earlier post and we are too far apart in beliefs to have a discussion.

Correction: You have not refuted anything that I posted. I have quoted the SAME verses, including verse one that mentions our fleshly bodies. They are still souls who have physically died that received the white robes - all before Christ's return! Period. Not receive their white robes "later" at the Second Coming. Read Revelation 6:9-11 again!

 

[IndianaRob]

Correction: You have not refuted anything that I posted. I have quoted the SAME verses, including verse one that mentions our fleshly bodies. They are still souls that receive the white robes - all before Christ's return! Period. Not receive the white robes at the Second Coming. Read Revelation 6:9-11 again!

Ok thanks.

 

[TribulationSigns]

The white robes are the righteousness of Christ which we do have here and there but what Paul is talking about is the glorified heavenly body. Our heavenly house (body).

2Co 5:2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

This is the warfare that Christ came to end. The Kingdom which He came to bring is one which would transcend the flesh and sin of a man born of a woman. It is the Peace Christ brought by the cross.

Isaiah 40:2

• "Speak ye comfortably to Jerusalem and cry unto her, that her warfare is accomplished, that her iniquity is pardoned: for she hath received of the LORD'S hand double for all her sins."

This is the Prophesied Peace of Israel to end the violence in the Kingdom on earth which John was part of. John was a cryer ushering in this peace, in preparing the way for Christ. He, being a man (flesh and blood which cannot inherit the kingdom of God), though he be the greatest man on earth (humanly speaking) is less than anyone in the kingdom given strength Power by the cross.

But after John died, then this doesn't apply anymore. For then would he be without the burden of the body of flesh, and without the sin he carried as a man "born of a woman." A preview here of our nature being "born of God" by the Cross, that we are without sin. In application John was saved and without sin. But in the flesh John (as are all who toil in this world in their sinful robe of flesh), was still burdened by sin, and therefore not as good as those (in heaven) who are of course without the carnal flesh and blood. This is what is put forth in verses such as

2nd CorinthiansCo 5:2-4

• "For in this we groan earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
• If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
• For we that are in this tabernacle do groan being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed but clothed upon that mortality might be swallowed up of life."

John was also burdened by that robe of flesh, but those in heaven are not, and thus are greater. In death, then are we changed where we are like the messengers in heaven without this burden of the sin in the flesh. When we put off this tabernacle (body) we are as the greatest in the Kingdom of Heaven. And that is what I believe God is saying about John. Even as great as he was on earth, as a man born of a women (from our perspective), those in the Kingdom of heaven are greater, because they have no burden of the sin of the flesh. When Christ went to the Cross, in the real sense the Kingdom came and all of us (believers) were made perfect in Him. But the consummation of the kingdom is at Christ's return, or our death, or our rapture, when we are literally translated into that Kingdom and reign with Him eternally. Then we take possession of that which is already ours. Just as scripture says at His coming, He delivers up the Kingdom to God. i.e., it's a kingdom we have now, and yet it is also a kingdom which is delivered up in consummation with the spiritual Kingdom in heaven we shall fully receive.

Selah

 

[WPM]

We won’t be naked in heaven we’ll have our glorified bodies. Which is what Paul is talking about here:

2Co 5:2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
2Co 5:3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
2Co 5:4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

Yes I read your earlier post and we are too far apart in beliefs to have a discussion.

Where does it say that? Nowhere. You make it up as you go to support your heresy.

Hebrews 12:22-24 says, “But ye are come (plural perfect active indicative) unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect. And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.”

These highlighted references in the original relate to the present, and are active, meaning the subject continues to exist in the state indicated by the verb. They relate to the here-and-now and are ongoing. They speak of our immediate entry into the kingdom of God and our current spiritual standing in the New Jerusalem. The heavenly Jerusalem is more than a future hope (even though it most assuredly is that), it is a present reality.

Interestingly, we see “the spirits of just men made perfect,” who I believe correlate with “the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands.” The beast is simply this world, and his mark is that final mark of reprobation which the damned ultimately receive.