Rock Peter

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Behold

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“And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overpower it.”

Your MaryCult theology is garbage propaganda.

Listen,
The NT Church is not built on Peter.
Its built on the revelation that Peter stated, that Jesus is the Son of God.

The Gates of Hell will not prevail against the Son of God and His "body"....., whereas Peter already failed when He denied Jesus 3 times.

Now if you want the actual ROCK.....then Here He is.. as taught by Paul.

"And that ROCK was Christ".... 1 Corin 10: 3-4 (KJV).

If you want the ROCK then Here He is.

Jesus is the "Cornerstone of the Church"... the MAIN foundation. Eph 2:19-22 (KJV)
 

Matthias

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“(iv) But there was something even more impressive yet at Caesarea Philippi. In the time of Jesus Caesarea Philippi was one of the most beautiful cities in the East. In 20 BC Augustus had given it as a gift to Herod the Great; and Herod had built on the hill-top a great white temple of gleaming marble with the bust of Caesar in it for the worship of Caesar. ‘Herod,’ says Josephus in the passage which we have already quoted in part, ‘adorned this place, which was already a very remarkable one, still further by the erection of this temple which he dedicated to Caesar.’ In another place Josephus again describes the temple and the cave: ‘When Caesar had further bestowed on Herod another country, he built there also a temple of white marble, hard by the fountains of Jordan. The place is called Paneion, where there is the top of a mountain which is raised to an immense height, and, at its side, beneath, or at its bottom a dark cave opens itself, within which there is a horrible precipice that descends abruptly to a vast depth. It contains a mighty quantity of water, which is immovable, and when anyone lets down anything to measure the depth of earth beneath the water, no length of cord is sufficient to reach it.’ In due time Herod‘s son Philip inherited the area and the city. He further beautified the already lovely city and the temple, and he changed the name from Panias to Caesarea, ‘the City of Caesar’, and to the name Caesarea he added his own name Philippi, ‘Philip’s City of Caesar’, to distinguish it from the other Caesarea in the south, which was the seat of government of Judaea, and where Paul was imprisoned. So, then, at Caesarea all the majesty of imperial Rome and the worship of the Emperor looked down on Jesus and his men. Still later Herod Agrippa was to call Caesarea Philippi by the name Neroneas in honour of the Emperor Nero.”

(William Barclay, The Mind of Jesus, p. 169)
 

Matthias

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Your MaryCult theology is garbage propaganda.

Listen,
The NT Church is not built on Peter.
Its built on the revelation that Peter stated, that Jesus is the Son of God.

Now if you want the acutal ROCK.....then Here He is.. as taught by Paul.

"And that ROCK was Christ".... 1 Corin 10: 3-4 (KJV).

If you want the ROCK then Here He is.

Jesus is the "Cornerstone of the Church"... the MAIN foundation. Eph 2:19-22 (KJV)

I’m not Catholic and it isn’t my theology. I’m a Jewish monotheist. You will see - if you take the time to do it - that’ve I’ve posted commentary which opposes the Catholic position.
 

Behold

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I’m not Catholic and it isn’t my theology. I’m a Jewish monotheist.

Then.....Why are you posting Catholic Cult Theology, regarding how THEY view Peter?

What is your purpose in posting MaryCult lies?

Will you next be posting that Peter is the 1st Pope, or that Water Baptism saves you?
 

Matthias

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Behold

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The Protestant commentaries I quoted addressed it.

And the phonebook addresses phone numbers.

So.... SO what..... if you found a "Protestant" who is a Catholic dupe.
There are a lot of Protestants who are Catholic Dupes and a lot of them wrote books and commentaries.
Does that make you one also, if you post THEIR perspecrtive?
Are you agreeing with it?
Apparently you are as you posted a Thread to support it. @Matthias
 

Matthias

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“(v) There remains one strange fact to add. It seems that Caesarea Philippi possessed the right of asylum; it was a place where the fugitive could find shelter and be safe. An inscription describes it as: ‘August, sacred, with the rights of sanctuary, under Paneion.’ In its history Caesarea Philippi must have sheltered many a fugitive, and it was there that Jesus went for shelter before the breaking of the gathering storm.”

(William Barclay, The Mind of Jesus, pp. 169-170)
 

Matthias

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And the phonebook addresses phone numbers.

So.... SO what..... if you found a "Protestant" who is a Catholic dupe.
There are a lot of Protestants who are Catholic Dupes and a lot of them wrote books and commentaries.
Does that make you one also, if you post THEIR perspecrtive?
Are you agreeing with it?
Apparently you are as you posted a Thread to support it. @Matthias

None of the Protestant commentators I’ve quoted are Catholic dupes. They oppose the Catholic position. I oppose the Catholic position. Catholics are welcome to support it in my thread. All options should be considered.
 

jaybird

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i have trouble believing when Jesus called Peter "rock" He was establishing a pope line of succession that would lead to people like alexander vi and leo x. alexander killing his son in law so he could use his daughter for a better political alliance and leo bankrupting the vatican for lavish parties, stories of debauchery are so bad they are not appropriate here.
and just to not sound bias, the non Catholic leaders were little better, James and his witch hunts, Irish genocide and soup tents, henry viii killing anyone that hurt his feelings.
 
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Matthias

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“The history of Caesarea Philippi is written in the changes of its name. Originally it was Balinas, for it was the centre of the worship of Baal; then it became Panias, for men regarded it as the birthplace of the Greek god Pan; then it became Caesarea, because it was the city where Caesar was worshipped; later it was to become Neroneas, named in honour of Nero; today it has reverted to its ancient name, for it is called Banias, which is the Arabic form of Panias, since Arabic does not have the sound of the letter p.

It was here that Jesus asked his greatest question and flung down his greatest challenge, and surely there could be no more dramatic set of circumstances. Here was a wandering Galilaean preacher, who had begun as a carpenter in Nazareth and who had now no place to lay his head. With him was a little company of men without education, without money and without prstige. At that very moment the orthodox religious authorities were resolved on his death as a dangerous heretic, and he well on the way to being an outlaw for whom a cross was waiting. He stood in a place surrounded by the memories of the ancient gods of Canaan, a place where men worshipped the gods of Greece, a place around which the memories of the history of Israel gathered, a place where the eye could not miss the white splendour of the temple where men worshipped the majesty of Imperial Rome; and there against the backcloth of the world’s religions, the world’s history and the world’s power, Jesus asked the question which demanded the answer that he was the Son of God. It sounds like preposterous madness. But the fact remains that the ancient gods are but a memory. Great Pan is dead. The Empire of Rome is dust. As H.V. Morton says, the great white marble stones of the imperial temp,e have become building material for the house of an Arab sheik. But Jesus Christ is still gloriously and triumphantly alive. The old faiths died; the old kingdoms fell; but the kingdom of the homeless Galilaean still stands and still enlarges its borders throughout the world.”

(William Barclay, The Mind of Jesus, p. 170)
 

Matthias

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i have trouble believing when Jesus called Peter "rock" He was establishing a pope line of succession that would lead to people like alexander vi and leo x. alexander killing his son in law so he could use his daughter for a better political alliance and leo bankrupting the vatican for lavish parties, stories of debauchery are so bad they are not appropriate here.

My position is that he wasn’t.

and just to not sound bias, the non Catholic leaders were little better, James and his witch hunts, Irish genocide and soup tents, henry viii killing anyone that hurt his feelings.

My position is that he wasn’t establishing them either.

I’m neither Catholic nor Protestant. I’m a primitive 1st century Christian living in the 21st century.
 

JohnDB

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i have trouble believing when Jesus called Peter "rock" He was establishing a pope line of succession that would lead to people like alexander vi and leo x. alexander killing his son in law so he could use his daughter for a better political alliance and leo bankrupting the vatican for lavish parties, stories of debauchery are so bad they are not appropriate here.
and just to not sound bias, the non Catholic leaders were little better, James and his witch hunts, Irish genocide and soup tents, henry viii killing anyone that hurt his feelings.

Peter had long since been tapped as leader of the Apostles. In the story of the "sending of the 12" which is recorded in several Gospel accounts....Mark's account is completely different from the others. (The inclusion of a staff) Because where Mark wrote it, Peter had already spoken it. The gospel account of Mark's is actually a collection of stories Peter told of his time with Jesus.

The staff Peter was to carry was the symbol of leadership over the others. Jesus was still the Rabbi (ultimate leadership) for all his Apostles but Peter was often their spokesman anyway....saying what they were thinking and asking the questions they didn't understand.

This is why Jesus gave Peter such a hard time after His resurrection. (Feed my sheep) And Peter was there at the transfiguration. The others weren't. Peter also got out of the boat....the others just watched.

One other thing....
James was the Jerusalem Synogogue leadership. Not Apostolic leader. Completely different set of responsibilities as they understood them. (Our understanding needs to mirror theirs.)

No, James did not preach every Sunday....he was responsible for appointing who did preach every Sunday and what scripture they were to speak about...a rotating schedule designed to cover all of the Tehillim, Prophets, and Torah. He might have been on the list and assigned a date...but not necessarily.
 

Bladerunner

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“And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overpower it.”

(Matthew 16:18, NET)

”There can be no higher tribute than to call a man a rock.”

(William Barclay, The Mind of Jesus, p. 173)
Jesus was using the Rock to describe himself...He did not say, 'your are Peter, the rock and I will build my church on it.'
 
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dak

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acts 12 16
you have Peter leaving, on his way out he says “Tell these things to James and to the brothers.” of all the brothers only one is mentioned by name.
Gal 2 when Peter does something controversial its "men of James" that come to see him.
combined with James giving final judgment which i already mentioned, its basic common sense to see James had a higher level of authority, and IMO a much greater argument than Peter being called "rock" which has to be "interpreted" to mean leader and if your using interpretations it could mean all kind of things.

Hi Jaybird, I remember your screen name from somewhere but cannot remember where from. Anyway there is an interesting note to the passage you've referrenced. In Codex Bezae we find in this passage a mention of "the seven steps".

Acts 12:10 Bezae (D)
10 And when they were past the first and the second ward, they came unto the iron gate that leadeth into the city, which opened to them of its own accord, and they went out, and went down the seven steps, and passed on through one street; and straightway the angel departed from him.

The only reason I can imagine for the author to include this statement is to imply that the whole episode was figuratively an immersion. However I suppose it may have been deemed "too Jewish", and perhaps that may be why it dropped out of the text, (of course I have no way of knowing that for sure, but there are several other things which remain in Bezae that seem to confirm this possibility). Just a side note, not meaning to derail the discussion.
 

Bladerunner

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Peter had long since been tapped as leader of the Apostles. In the story of the "sending of the 12" which is recorded in several Gospel accounts....Mark's account is completely different from the others. (The inclusion of a staff) Because where Mark wrote it, Peter had already spoken it. The gospel account of Mark's is actually a collection of stories Peter told of his time with Jesus.
Problem with that is all books written by the apostles were authored by the God. Each gospel is separate, similar but different. How I know this....God left His fingerprint behind..You see, in each of the books (i.e. Matt, Mark, Luke and John)written, each writer uses words that only he uses...Thus in Mark, there are words within his book that only He uses. (God's fingerprint.) . Matt, Luke and John do the same thing
 

Matthias

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Jesus was using the Rock to describe himself...He did not say, 'your are Peter, the rock and I will build my church on it.'

Barclay - a Protestant scholar - offered four plausible alternatives. While my preference is the confession made by Peter, I have no problem squaring that with Jesus calling Peter “rock”. I think Catholics overreact to what Jesus said to Peter and Protestants tend to overreact to the Catholic reaction and under react to what Jesus said to Peter.

Paul said the apostles and prophets are the foundation, with the Messiah being the cornerstone. A rock foundation is perfectly reasonable to my mind. People must be allowed to be persuaded in their own minds.
 

JohnDB

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Problem with that is all books written by the apostles were authored by the God. Each gospel is separate, similar but different. How I know this....God left His fingerprint behind..You see, in each of the books (i.e. Matt, Mark, Luke and John)written, each writer uses words that only he uses...Thus in Mark, there are words within his book that only He uses. (God's fingerprint.) . Matt, Luke and John do the same thing

Mark was not an Apostle....he was a disciple but not an Apostle. He did receive Sainthood and his Church in Egypt is still in existence today. It's Coptic....but still has several Satellite churches. The Christians are under severe Muslim persecution in Egypt. Most have left but a few remain.
 

Bladerunner

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Hi Jaybird, I remember your screen name from somewhere but cannot remember where from. Anyway there is an interesting note to the passage you've referrenced. In C we find in this passage a mention of "the seven steps".

Acts 12:10 Bezae (D)
10 And when they were past the first and the second ward, they came unto the iron gate that leadeth into the city, which opened to them of its own accord, and they went out, and went down the seven steps, and passed on through one street; and straightway the angel departed from him.

The only reason I can imagine for the author to include this statement is to imply that the whole episode was figuratively an immersion. However I suppose it may have been deemed "too Jewish", and perhaps that may be why it dropped out of the text, (of course I have no way of knowing that for sure, but there are several other things which remain in C that seem to confirm this possibility). Just a side note, not meaning to derail the discussion.
only in the Catholic Church has Peter been called the Rock, they also have decided He was the first pope...Not so....they are lying for Peter is never in Rome in the Bible or in the History. If your jewish you should know better...Peter was in the 'inner circle' of Jesus along with two others.
Barclay - a Protestant scholar - offered four plausible alternatives. While my preference is the confession made by Peter, I have no problem squaring that with Jesus calling Peter “rock”. I think Catholics overreact to what Jesus said to Peter and Protestants tend to overreact to the Catholic reaction and under react to what Jesus said to Peter.

Paul said the apostles and prophets are the foundation, with the Messiah being the cornerstone. A rock foundation is perfectly reasonable to my mind. People must be allowed to be persuaded in their own minds.
Throughout the Bible, Jesus has many names and 'a rock' was one of them...The Hebrew interpretation of Peter is 'stone' not rock....
 

Matthias

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only in the Catholic Church has Peter been called the Rock, they also have decided He was the first pope...Not so....they are lying for Peter is never in Rome in the Bible or in the History. If your jewish you should know better...Peter was in the 'inner circle' of Jesus along with two others.

Throughout the Bible, Jesus has many names and 'a rock' was one of them...The Hebrew interpretation of Peter is 'stone' not rock....

1. Not only in the Catholic Church, as I’ve demonstrated in this thread by quoting Protestant scholarship (from various denominational backgrounds.)

2. A stone is a rock. (Geologist approved.)