The Coming of Christ and the Kingdoms — a Clear Chronology of events.

[Scott Downey]

More verses supporting a single Day of Judgement for the righteous and the wicked

Romans 2
Therefore you are inexcusable, O man, whoever you are who judge, for in whatever you judge another you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things. 2 But we know that the judgment of God is according to truth against those who practice such things. 3 And do you think this, O man, you who judge those practicing such things, and doing the same, that you will escape the judgment of God? 4 Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance?

5 But in accordance with your hardness and your [a]impenitent heart you are [b]treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,

6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:

7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;

8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,

9 tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the [c]Greek;

10 but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God.


Matthew 16:27
For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works.


Revelation 20:13
The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works.

 

[LoveYeshua]

Fake news, dispensationalism believes in 2 great judgment days.
Scripture only ever teaches one Day of Judgment where Christ who is God officiates.

So in your opinion the events described by John in revelations is fake news? Please take your time and DO provide the verses that proves convincingly what you say. as for dispensationalism I do not adhere to ANY doctrine but Biblical truths. I am non denominational. if you need to categorize me use follower or disciple of Christ.

ill give people here a Hint about the New earth.

When Moses stood before the burning bush on Mount Horeb, God told him to remove his sandals because the ground was holy. This shows that wherever God’s presence dwells, that place must be holy. In the same way, the Lord will not place His eternal dwelling, the New Jerusalem, upon the old earth, for this world has been marked by sin, violence, and corruption. Revelation tells us that the first heaven and earth will pass away, and a new heaven and a new earth will appear, for in that new creation there will be no more sea. This alone proves it cannot be the same earth, since our present planet is mostly covered by oceans. The New Jerusalem itself is described as a perfect square, about two thousand two hundred kilometers on each side and equally high, so vast that it could not rest upon this present world. But in the new creation, there will be no barrier of seas, no corruption, and no trace of sin. It will be pure, holy, and prepared for God Himself to dwell with His people. This is why Jesus said, “Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God” (Matthew 5:8). Only in a new earth made holy can the New Jerusalem stand, and only in such holiness can God’s people live in His presence forever.

 

[Zao is life]

You are making something out of nothing
Acts 13:48
Now when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.

John 10:28
And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.

1 Timothy 6:12
Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, to which you were also called and have confessed the good confession in the presence of many witnesses.

1 Timothy 6:19
storing up for themselves a good foundation for the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.

Romans 2:6-8
who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,

1 John 5:20
And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us an understanding, that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.

John 17
Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You, 2 as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He [a]should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him. 3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

When you know the true God, you have eternal life
Jesus here shows Himself as the true God.

John 12

44 Then Jesus cried out and said, “He who believes in Me, believes not in Me but in Him who sent Me.
45 And he who sees Me sees Him who sent Me.
46 I have come as a light into the world, that whoever believes in Me should not abide in darkness.

47 And if anyone hears My words and does not [g]believe, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world.

48 He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him—the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.

49 For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak. 50 And I know that His command is everlasting life. Therefore, whatever I speak, just as the Father has told Me, so I speak.”

The Bible tells you that Eternal life is in Christ, who alone has life [zoe] in Himself. Only God has life [zoe] in Himself: John 1:2 & 4; John 5:26; 1 John 5:11-12.

All I did was ask you a very simple question, to which you have not responded.

According to scripture, in whom is that eternal life that you have received from God. In yourself?

Read John 1:4; John 5:26 and 1 John 5:11-12 before you answer.

Why can't you respond and answer the question?

 

[Scott Downey]

One Day of Judgment to come. to give to every one according to his work.
Revelation 22:11-13

11 He who is unjust, let him be unjust still; he who is filthy, let him be filthy still; he who is righteous, let him [a]be righteous still; he who is holy, let him be holy still.”

12 “And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”

 

[Scott Downey]

So in your opinion the events described by John in revelations is fake news? Please take your time and DO provide the verses that proves convincingly what you say. as for dispensationalism I do not adhere to ANY doctrine but Biblical truths. I am non denominational. if you need to categorize me use follower or disciple of Christ.

ill give people here a Hint about the New earth.

When Moses stood before the burning bush on Mount Horeb, God told him to remove his sandals because the ground was holy. This shows that wherever God’s presence dwells, that place must be holy. In the same way, the Lord will not place His eternal dwelling, the New Jerusalem, upon the old earth, for this world has been marked by sin, violence, and corruption. Revelation tells us that the first heaven and earth will pass away, and a new heaven and a new earth will appear, for in that new creation there will be no more sea. This alone proves it cannot be the same earth, since our present planet is mostly covered by oceans. The New Jerusalem itself is described as a perfect square, about two thousand two hundred kilometers on each side and equally high, so vast that it could not rest upon this present world. But in the new creation, there will be no barrier of seas, no corruption, and no trace of sin. It will be pure, holy, and prepared for God Himself to dwell with His people. This is why Jesus said, “Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God” (Matthew 5:8). Only in a new earth made holy can the New Jerusalem stand, and only in such holiness can God’s people live in His presence forever.

My post is in reaction to your assertion of 2 Days of Judgment, not about the New Earth and New heavens.
Which I am glad to see you agree there will be New Earth as people lately responding to me in this forum say it is just the same earth like getting a 'make over', like God putting lipstick on a pig!

 

[LoveYeshua]

More verses supporting a single Day of Judgement for the righteous and the wicked

Romans 2
Therefore you are inexcusable, O man, whoever you are who judge, for in whatever you judge another you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things. 2 But we know that the judgment of God is according to truth against those who practice such things. 3 And do you think this, O man, you who judge those practicing such things, and doing the same, that you will escape the judgment of God? 4 Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance?

5 But in accordance with your hardness and your [a]impenitent heart you are [b]treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,

6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:

7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;

8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,

9 tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the [c]Greek;

10 but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God.


Matthew 16:27
For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works.


Revelation 20:13
The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works.

I think the book of Revelations is clear and precise enough, I fully believe the version of apostle John that contain all the necessary details.

 

[LoveYeshua]

My post is in reaction to your assertion of 2 Days of Judgment, not about the New Earth and New heavens.
Which I am glad to see you agree there will be New Earth as people lately responding to me in this forum say it is just the same earth like getting a 'make over', like God putting lipstick on a pig!

it is not my assertion if is written in Revelations!, take your time and read it gain and see!

 

[LoveYeshua]

I don't want to take over the thread, but after I made the point (quoted below) that each of the chronological events of biblical history have a greater perspective to be considered --these are those same points from God's perspective:


1)

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth and all that is in it, stating His greatest creation as mankind, giving form to what He referred to as an "image"--man is the evidence of God's purpose for, and means of, all of creation. Which was not so clearly stated until Solomon wrote of the body returning to the dust, and until Peter wrote of that dust being of the same elements of the earth--which was to be destroyed.

Thus, the world and all of creation was to give an "image" or revelation by form made manifest by God--or what? As the Beginning and the End, the book of Revelation tells us, it is all a revelation of Jesus Christ. By whom all things were made. Whom "was before the foundation of the world." "Was." Meaning, this world is a revelation by image and form of all that "was" before it ever came to be revealed.

Wherein, the present age could be considered every age of this world, or just that part or age after the flood, or that age after Christ. Whichever way one looks at it hardly matters--that is not what is important. What is important is why? Which the times of this world declare in a form of chronology, unlike their timeless beginning--before the foundation of the world began. The purpose then--in short--according to those God sent to speak, was to reveal what "was" "here a little there a little" down through the ages, "but each one in his own order." Again, the question becomes, why? The answer of which Christ gave, saying, "For there is nothing hidden which will not be revealed, nor has anything been kept secret but that it should come to light." Which, is to say, this is the evidence that comes before the Judgement. Wherein we all walk out what we believe, leading to our own eternal fate "each one in his own order."

As for 70 AD, the entire matter and cause of this world being revealed, was presented in summary--the Beginning and the End--in the lifetime of the man Jesus Christ. Although it had all occurred before the foundation of the world (the Lamb slain, etc.), and came fully in His "hour", His whole lifetime is the greater summary. Which meant an enactment fulfilling--if only in part...as all time and this world were represented--70 AD shows it all being fulfilled during that generation of Christ. Which has become a stumbling block for many, thinking it all happened then and is finished. And yet, the greater word of God reveals it all being finished before the foundation of the world, or even at that moment of Christ dying on the cross--which Paul eluded to, saying "I was crucified with Christ" (past tense). Which he gave as an example of all who are "in Christ"--including "the dead" and "the living", "but each one in his own order."

Yet, although all of this is written--we are more inclined to see things as they come to us, according to the history of this world--which is not the kingdom of Christ.

Of course there is more...His feet standing on the Mount of Olives, etc.--which all have there eternal perspective explanation--but really, what is the Mount of Olives, but that eternal mount of His anointing--His revealing? Is it not all His (mountain)?

Hi Scott A, I appreciate your thoughts, and I agree with you that we should always seek God’s perspective in all things. At the same time, I believe we need to be careful not to lose sight of how Jesus Himself taught us to view history and the unfolding of God’s plan.

When the disciples asked about the end of the age and His return, Jesus gave a very clear outline: the kingdom begins like a mustard seed and grows in this present world, but the harvest—the separation of the righteous and the wicked—happens at the end of the age (Matthew 13:24–43). He described specific signs that would take place before His coming, including cosmic disturbances and His visible appearance to all nations (Matthew 24:27–31). None of that happened in AD 70. What did happen, as He also foretold, was the fall of Jerusalem and the destruction of the Temple (Luke 21:20–24). That judgment was real and terrible, but it was not the Second Coming.

The “greater purpose” you mentioned is indeed there—everything does point back to Christ as the Beginning and the End (Revelation 1:8). But Jesus Himself did not leave us with vague symbols only. He spoke of real, concrete events, and the angels confirmed at His ascension that “this same Jesus” will return in the same way He departed—bodily and visibly (Acts 1:11). Zechariah also spoke of His feet standing on the Mount of Olives (Zechariah 14:4), which again shows us this is not only a spiritual truth, but also a reality that will take place in the world.

So, while we must always remember the eternal perspective, we should not dismiss the timeline that Jesus Himself gave us, step by step. God’s revelation is both: the heavenly purpose that was established “before the foundation of the world,” and the unfolding of that purpose in history until all is fulfilled in Christ.

Let us also be careful not to let the desire for a “greater perspective” lead us to ignore what Christ clearly said and showed. To claim that the events of AD 70 or the present age somehow fulfill all prophecy is to stumble over the words of Jesus Himself. True understanding comes when we hold both perspectives—God’s eternal plan and the real, observable history—without twisting either to fit our preference.

 

[LoveYeshua]

off for today going cycling back tomorrow.

 

[Scott Downey]

it is not my assertion if is written in Revelations!, take your time and read it gain and see!

You know that Christ is God ?
He is not God the Father.
He is God the Son.

In Rev 20, I read all of them standing before God.

What did Christ say about the Judgment?

John 5
21 For as the Father raises the dead and gives life to them, even so the Son gives life to whom He will.

22 For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment to the Son,

23 that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.

Consider that if you please when deciding if there is a judgment by the Son and a judgment by the Father.
Honor the Son's teaching please.

 

[Scott Downey]

Truth is right here in the scriptures

Revelation 20
11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before [c]God, and books were opened.

John 5

21 For as the Father raises the dead and gives life to them, even so the Son gives life to whom He will.

22 For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment to the Son,

23 that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.

John 5

26 For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself,
27 and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man.

28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

30 I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Judge for yourself the words of Jesus and the scripture, in all your ways acknowledge Him, and He shall direct your paths
Lean not to your own understanding.

 

[Scott Downey]

Proverbs 3

My son, do not forget my law,
But let your heart keep my commands;

2 For length of days and long life
And peace they will add to you.

3 Let not mercy and truth forsake you;
Bind them around your neck,
Write them on the tablet of your heart,

4 And so find favor and [a]high esteem
In the sight of God and man.

5 Trust in the Lord with all your heart,
And lean not on your own understanding;

6 In all your ways acknowledge Him,
And He shall [b]direct your paths.

7 Do not be wise in your own eyes;
Fear the Lord and depart from evil.

8 It will be health to your [c]flesh,
And strength[d] to your bones.

 

[Randy Kluth]

BibleGateway - Keyword Search: eternal earth

www.biblegateway.com

Did a search for earth eternal in several versions and find nothing.
Only one unrelated verse

I do appreciate that you looked and took note of the argument. There are several places where the earth is said to be "forever."

Eccles 1.4 Generations come and generations go, but the earth remains forever.
Psalm 78.69 He built his sanctuary like the heights, like the earth that he established forever.
Psalm 104.5 He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved.
Psalm 119.90 Your faithfulness continues through all generations; you established the earth, and it endures.

Though it is true that the current earth is viewed as something transient, it may only be saying that what is corrupt about the earth will pass away. The "earth" is portrayed as Man's eternal home.

Once the corruption passes, the earth will be "new." Same planet, but viewed as "new."

The earth is Man's eternal home in the Scriptures. And it is on the earth that God's faithfulneses is displayed in retaining that home for us forever.

 

[Scott Downey]

I do appreciate that you looked and took note of the argument. There are several places where the earth is said to be "forever."

Eccles 1.4 Generations come and generations go, but the earth remains forever.
Psalm 78.69 He built his sanctuary like the heights, like the earth that he established forever.
Psalm 104.5 He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved.
Psalm 119.90 Your faithfulness continues through all generations; you established the earth, and it endures.

Though it is true that the current earth is viewed as something transient, it may only be saying that what is corrupt about the earth will pass away. The "earth" is portrayed as Man's eternal home.

Once the corruption passes, the earth will be "new." Same planet, but viewed as "new."

The earth is Man's eternal home in the Scriptures. And it is on the earth that God's faithfulneses is displayed in retaining that home for us forever.

God made the earth to be inhabited, and God makes the New earth to also be inhabited.
Even the New earth, God considers the earth.

You did notice how God describes the earth like clothes, They wear out, God gets a new set of clothes, but there will always be an earth in the plan of God, not some other place for God and man to dwell together.

 

[ScottA]

Hi Scott A, I appreciate your thoughts, and I agree with you that we should always seek God’s perspective in all things. At the same time, I believe we need to be careful not to lose sight of how Jesus Himself taught us to view history and the unfolding of God’s plan.

When the disciples asked about the end of the age and His return, Jesus gave a very clear outline: the kingdom begins like a mustard seed and grows in this present world, but the harvest—the separation of the righteous and the wicked—happens at the end of the age (Matthew 13:24–43). He described specific signs that would take place before His coming, including cosmic disturbances and His visible appearance to all nations (Matthew 24:27–31). None of that happened in AD 70. What did happen, as He also foretold, was the fall of Jerusalem and the destruction of the Temple (Luke 21:20–24). That judgment was real and terrible, but it was not the Second Coming.

The “greater purpose” you mentioned is indeed there—everything does point back to Christ as the Beginning and the End (Revelation 1:8). But Jesus Himself did not leave us with vague symbols only. He spoke of real, concrete events, and the angels confirmed at His ascension that “this same Jesus” will return in the same way He departed—bodily and visibly (Acts 1:11). Zechariah also spoke of His feet standing on the Mount of Olives (Zechariah 14:4), which again shows us this is not only a spiritual truth, but also a reality that will take place in the world.

So, while we must always remember the eternal perspective, we should not dismiss the timeline that Jesus Himself gave us, step by step. God’s revelation is both: the heavenly purpose that was established “before the foundation of the world,” and the unfolding of that purpose in history until all is fulfilled in Christ.

Let us also be careful not to let the desire for a “greater perspective” lead us to ignore what Christ clearly said and showed. To claim that the events of AD 70 or the present age somehow fulfill all prophecy is to stumble over the words of Jesus Himself. True understanding comes when we hold both perspectives—God’s eternal plan and the real, observable history—without twisting either to fit our preference.

That is a nice explanation, but it's not just my thoughts, but a word for these times.

Unfortunately, your explanation was only good for a time, and thus suffers the strong delusion foretold of the church growth age. To the contrary, what is now important to understand and to come to grips with, is that those teachings and timeline of Jesus were the very same words that many foretold false teachers used to propagate their destructive doctrines, many of which are still taught and believed, and are evident in your own explanation.

This is a new day. A day that also was foretold.

 

[Zao is life]

One Day of Judgment to come. to give to every one according to his work.
Revelation 22:11-13

11 He who is unjust, let him be unjust still; he who is filthy, let him be filthy still; he who is righteous, let him [a]be righteous still; he who is holy, let him be holy still.”

12 “And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”

Pray for each one who belongs to Christ that he realize that the scripture you quote applies to himself, as well as to everyone else - every human being who ever lived and that not one of us becomes preoccupied with bothering ourselves with how it applies to others, or (even worse) pointing fingers at others in our thoughts (hearts) but is only concerned with how the scripture applies to ourselves. Our own works. Not that of others.

PS: According to scripture, in whom is that eternal life that you have received from God. In yourself?

Read John 1:4; John 5:26 and 1 John 5:11-12 before you answer.

 

[LoveYeshua]

That is a nice explanation, but it's not just my thoughts, but a word for these times.

Unfortunately, your explanation was only good for a time, and thus suffers the strong delusion foretold of the church growth age. To the contrary, what is now important to understand and to come to grips with, is that those teachings and timeline of Jesus were the very same words that many foretold false teachers used to propagate their destructive doctrines, many of which are still taught and believed, and are evident in your own explanation.

This is a new day. A day that also was foretold.

Destructive doctrine? I suffer from strong delusion? everything in the chronology of the O.P. if from the book revelations! as is! tell me or rather prove to me in a clear concise way where i was delusional, show me the truth as you know it then so I can understand.

 

[ScottA]

Destructive doctrine? I suffer from strong delusion? everything in the chronology of the O.P. if from the book revelations! as is! tell me or rather prove to me in a clear concise way where i was delusional, show me the truth as you know it then so I can understand.

You know the scriptures, so you know the strong delusion and destructive doctrines I was referring to. But step back a moment (if you can). Do you not see a comparison in your response to that of the Priests and Pharisees? Try to remain objective. Just insert the word "law" where you said "book revelations!" --What you said would look like this: "Everything in the chronology of the history of Israel and from the law as is?"

Yes, the church is now in the hot seat, and you are just as taken by surprise as the Priests and Pharisees were. Except, we were given the opportunity to learn from their mistakes.

Specifically, consider "the end of the age" in your previous post, from Matthew 24:3: He was speaking to those alive at that time, but also to the next generation, and the next until the last and final generation--until the end. Now, what you (and most for 2,000 years) have believed--not based on Jesus' complete word, including all that "must shortly take place" during "this generation" made up of those He was speaking to [specifically] identifying them as "you" of 'that' particular generation (not "they" of a future generation)--but rather on what was taught thereafter by those "false teachers" warned of by Peter.

This is not just quoted words from "the book"--but is prophecy fulfilled--and it is not too late to see it.

So, rather than all scripture pertaining to those words from Christ being kicked down the road to some assumed future "generation", the truth from Christ was and is something else. But it is most abstract to say the least--the epitome of spiritual truth compared with the lowly understanding of men of flesh and blood expecting a worldly fulfillment of a heavenly reality. Can you even do that? Are you even willing?

If so--if you are inclined to hear what the Spirit says and not just more of what the scriptures foretell of the church and for lack of faith, what they assumed to be the "end of the age." Ask yourself, were those who asked Jesus when it would come--for them, when was that? It was at the end of that generation. But what of the same word and answer to the next generation, and the next generation after that, and so on--when did or would the end of the age come for them, and them, and them, and those even to the end of the world? The words are there--and very clear--but only eluded to. Why only eluded to? Because the same word was to be equally given and applicable to each generation unto the last. Does that not describe a perfect distribution "here a little there a little" unto all who are born of God, until the fulness of the gentiles has come? This is what God has done! And the words that only elude to this--are those I have said here more times than I can count: "but each one in his own order"...An elaboration given to us--not by my assertion--but by Paul (1 Corinthians 15:23). Which he gave referring to everyone from the beginning to the end, including all the dead and the living in Christ (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17).

"But each one in his own order." --Each individual--look up the meaning of the words--each in their own order of time--which is the time of His coming (again).

Which yes--changes everything.

 

[ScottA]

2) The Final Birth Pains and the Great Tribulation​

Before Jesus returns, He said there will be a unique time of “great tribulation” unlike anything before or after (Matthew 24:21–22; Mark 13:19–20). He pointed us to “the abomination of desolation” spoken by Daniel as a key sign (Matthew 24:15; cf. Daniel 9:27; 11:31; 12:11).
There will be intense deception and powerful signs to mislead, if possible, even the elect (Matthew 24:23–26). Immediately after that tribulation, the sun and moon will be darkened, stars will fall, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken (Matthew 24:29; Joel 2:30–31; Isaiah 13:10; 34:4).

#2
The "unique time of 'great tribulation'", was the Son of God being sent to the chosen people of God, only to be rejected and crucified (and so much more). By definition...all tribulation was put upon Christ. All--the sum total of every tribulation. Meaning, no other single or assortment of tribulations could ever be greater. The crucifixion was the "great tribulation."

The fact that Christ crucified was the great tribulation was the cause, or was what prompted "the abomination of desolation", is a profound statement of its own-- Because, the scope of great tribulation placed upon Christ--began at the beginning--since Adam, and continues upon all generations unto the end of the world. Which establishes another fact: That, since the crucifixion came before the tribulation that began in the beginning--then the saying "the Lamb slain from* the foundation of the world"--does actually mean: before the world began! (*From" meaning: "separate"--separate from the events of this world.)

As for misleading "if possible, even the elect"-- This too shows the timing as not future, but even to be upon Noah, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, who are among the first of the elect. Again, meaning that the all of tribulation placed upon Christ that began at the beginning, came after the foundation of the world, and thus after the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Which does beg the question... How was Christ both slain before the world began, and also slain in the midst of the times of this world? The answer is: All that was and is made manifest in this world by God, was before the foundation of the world, and is only now being revealed.

As for "the sun and moon will be darkened, stars will fall, and the powers of the heavens" being shaken... Such is war--waging good against evil. But the sun, is not just the source of light and warmth for the earth--it is a sign of Him who rules the day--the Light. Which went dark for those who walk in the shadow of death; and the moon--the ruler of the night--darkness and the evil of this world, is also extinguished during the times of this world--this is the death of him; and the stars, they to are signs--signs from heaven, both good and evil, including Satan who fell like lightening.

But what is important here--is the timing: Everything was before the foundation of the world, then the Lamb slain, then the world made manifest revealing those things of revelation that were before, but only now revealed.

 

[ScottA]

3) The Visible Second Coming of the Son of Man​

Then the sign of the Son of Man appears in heaven; all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds with power and great glory (Matthew 24:30; Mark 13:26; Luke 21:27).
He will send His angels with a great trumpet sound to gather His elect from one end of heaven to the other (Matthew 24:31). His coming will be sudden and open, like lightning from east to west (Matthew 24:27). No one knows the day or hour—so we must watch and be ready (Matthew 24:36–44; Mark 13:32–37).

Where He comes​

Jesus ascended from the Mount of Olives and will return in like manner (Acts 1:9–12). Zechariah adds that the Mount of Olives will split in two when the LORD comes and fights for Jerusalem, and living waters will flow from the city (Zechariah 14:3–8, 16–19).

His judgment as He sits on His throne​

When the Son of Man comes in His glory and all the holy angels with Him, He will sit on the throne of His glory and gather all nations before Him for judgment (Matthew 25:31–32). He separates like a shepherd separates sheep and goats (Matthew 25:33–46).

#3
There is a transition noted in the above verses that, unfortunately, is mingled by many as if Light had communion with darkness. But it--He does not. When the verses say "heaven" it means, "not of", or in, "this world." So "Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven"--that sign is within those born of the spirit of God, and comes to those who hearing the knock of Jesus upon that door within and open to Him. "And then all the tribes of the earth will mourn", speaks of those who have not, or have not yet, heard His knock and opened to Him, therefore they mourn, as it is written: "We all growl like bears, And moan sadly like doves; We look for justice, but there is none; For salvation, but it is far from us" (Isaiah 59:11). And yet, even "they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory", whether they open to His knocking while remaining in the world, or in the resurrection before God when these heavens and earth pass away.

The "like manner" of Jesus' ascension had two sides to it, one visible and in this world, and one not visible and in heaven. But His return was not to be in the "like manner" of this world, but rather in the "like manner"--as it is also written: "in the glory of His Father", in spirit. But men thinking men, not seeing or even considering His own "likeness", have causes many to believe in error.

He comes--returns--"within."

Judgement--is before the throne of God--in heaven.