Death will be no more, due to no more births.

[Earburner]

A. There shall be no more death,
Because:
B. There shall be no more births.

A. Rev. 21
[4] And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
Because:
B. 2 Thes. 1
[7] And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
[8] In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
[9] Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

 

[Marty fox]

A. There shall be no more death,
Because:
B. There shall be no more births.

A. Rev. 21
[4] And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
Because:
B. 2 Thes. 1
[7] And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
[8] In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
[9] Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

No there will be no more death. Think about it even if no one else was born in the world everybody would still die

 

[Earburner]

That is my point!

IF for you 2 Thes. 1:7-10 is a legitimate prophetic reality in your view of when the symbolic 1000 years take place and for what reason, then you will be acutely aware that upon Jesus' sudden and Glorious return from heaven in flaming fire, there will be no one of mortal flesh that shall be left alive! Hence, there will be no one available to procreate the human species. The results?
No more DEATH.

 

[KUWN]

That is my point!

If 2 Thes. 1:7-10 is a legitimate prophetic reality in your view of when the symbolic 1000 years take place and for what reason, then you will be acutely aware that upon Jesus' sudden and Glorious return from heaven in flaming fire, there will be no one of mortal flesh that shall be left alive! Hence, no one available to procreate the human species. The results?
No more DEATH.

Are you referring to Heaven of the Millennium? In the Millennium, which Daniel said would be after Christ's Second Coming, people in their natural bodies will enter the Millennium, and there will be death in the Millennium. I interpret all Scripture literally. so our prophetic interpretive model is radically different.

 

[Earburner]

Are you referring to Heaven of the Millennium? In the Millennium, which Daniel said would be after Christ's Second Coming, people in their natural bodies will enter the Millennium, and there will be death in the Millennium. I interpret all Scripture literally. so our prophetic interpretive model is radically different.

Ok, then what do you make of KJV Heb. 9:26?
[26] For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

I perceive that since the day of Jesus' crucifixion and resurrection, we are STILL in the end of the world, but it is only as long as God allows it to exist during the extension of His Grace and longsuffering, for us to have faith in His Son Jesus.
2 Peter 3
[9] The Lord is not slack concerning his promise [of salvation], as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
[15] And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation [during the 1000 years]; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

For me and many others, we understand that the period of "a 1000 years" is spiritually discerned as being figurative, having no defined end date except when God the Father decides His Age of Grace shall end, and sends Jesus suddenly to redeem His Saints.

Surely you don't think that there was a different reason for describing the period of "a thousand years" in 2 Peter ch. 3?

 

[Truth7t7]

That is my point!

If 2 Thes. 1:7-10 is a legitimate prophetic reality in your view of when the symbolic 1000 years take place and for what reason, then you will be acutely aware that upon Jesus' sudden and Glorious return from heaven in flaming fire, there will be no one of mortal flesh that shall be left alive! Hence, there will be no one available to procreate the human species. The results?
No more DEATH.

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

 

[Truth7t7]

Are you referring to Heaven of the Millennium? In the Millennium, which Daniel said would be after Christ's Second Coming, people in their natural bodies will enter the Millennium, and there will be death in the Millennium. I interpret all Scripture literally. so our prophetic interpretive model is radically different.

Daniel wrote no such a thing as you claim

Paul clearly taught that when Jesus returns the resurrection of the dead takes place, (Then Cometh The End) its that simple (The End) not a 1,000 year kingdom on this earth as many "Falsely" claim

1 Corinthians 15:21-24KJV
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

The scripture above is in perfect agreement with Jesus being revealed in fire and brimstone as seen below (Then Cometh The End) as all the unsaved wicked are destroyed at the Lord's return

(Destroyed Them All)

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

The resurrection of "All" is seen below and the wicked are judged to eternal damnation, this is when the "Final Judgement" takes place (The End)

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

 Jesus clearly taught that the resurrection of "All" takes place on "The Last Day" this is in perfect agreement with the scripture above

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

 

[HealthyShape]

Ok, then what do you make of KJV Heb. 9:26?
[26] For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

I perceive that since the day of Jesus' crucifixion and resurrection, we are STILL in the end of the world, but it is only as long as God allows it to exist during the extension of His Grace and longsuffering, for us to have faith in His Son Jesus.
2 Peter 3[15] And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

For me and many others, we understand that the period of "a 1000 years" is spiritually discerned as being figurative, having no defined end date except when God the Father decides His Age of Grace shall end, and sends Jesus suddenly to redeem His Saints.

Are you saying that God did not know in the first century that the end will not come in the first century and suddenly decided to "postpone it" after the New Testament was written down?

 

[Earburner]

Are you saying that God did not know in the first century that the end will not come in the first century and suddenly decided to "postpone it" after the New Testament was written down?

If it were not for the longsuffering of God's Grace towards us (both Jews and Gentiles), through Jesus, the end of the world would have taken place in Jesus' first coming.

However, make no mistake!! In a sense the end did come FOR ISRAEL as being God's chosen people (KJV Dan. 9:24-27).
Since the inception of them by God, He had been keeping in Remembrance all those of Israel, who were of faith in the "Promise to come". KJV Malachi 3:16-18.

Many are not aware that no one "under the altar" of the OC had yet received the permanent Gift of the Holy Spirit (Eternal Life) until after Jesus' death, resurrection and Ascension.
Please see the figurative 144,000 of OC Israel in KJV Rev. 7:1-17, Rev. 6:9-11, and also the many OC. saints that rose from their graves upon Jesus' crucifixion in KJV Mat. 27:50-55. All three references are describing the same event of the figurative 144,000 of OC Israel!!
Of the OC., God did not forget those of whom He had Remembered! Mal. 3:16.

 

[HealthyShape]

If it were not for the longsuffering of God's Grace towards us (both Jews and Gentiles), through Jesus, the end of the world would have taken place in Jesus' first coming.

However, make no mistake!! In a sense the end did come FOR ISRAEL as being God's chosen people (KJV Dan. 9:24-27).
Since the inception of them by God, He had been keeping in Remembrance all those of Israel, who were of faith in the "Promise to come". KJV Malachi 3:16-18.

Many are not aware that no one "under the altar" of the OC had yet received the permanent Gift of the Holy Spirit (Eternal Life) until after Jesus' death, resurrection and Ascension.
Please see the figurative 144,000 of OC Israel in KJV Rev. 6:9-11, and also the many saints that rose from their graves upon Jesus' crucifixion in KJV Mat. 27:50-55. Both are the same event!!
Of the OC., God did not forget those of whom He had Remembered! Mal. 3:16.

I do not understand what you are saying.

Were Jesus, James, Peter, John, Paul, Apollos all wrong/mistaken? Did God not know that He will be longsuffering, before He has been longsuffering?

 

[Davy]

That is my point!

If 2 Thes. 1:7-10 is a legitimate prophetic reality in your view of when the symbolic 1000 years take place and for what reason, then you will be acutely aware that upon Jesus' sudden and Glorious return from heaven in flaming fire, there will be no one of mortal flesh that shall be left alive! Hence, there will be no one available to procreate the human species. The results?
No more DEATH.

Still not a proper staying in the Bible Scripture. Apostle Paul in 1 Cor.15:53-54, PER THE GREEK, gave 4 different Greek words to describe the "changed" that will occur to everyone still alive at the "last trump". That "last trump" represents the "day of the Lord", which is the LAST DAY of this present world when Jesus' future 2nd coming will occur.

The wicked will be "changed" on that day also, just as the wicked dead also will be resurrection to their own resurrection type ("resurrection of damnation" per John 5:28-29).

On that last day of this world, God's consuming fire will burn man's works off the surface of this earth (2 Peter 3:10). That is how all still alive on the day will be "changed", with their flesh being cast off, instantly, "at the twinkling of an eye". And that is how our "spiritual body" that we each already have living inside our flesh today, will be suddenly revealed.

So the constant allusion to our flesh body becoming the "spiritual body" of the world to come is just an illusion of carnal fleshy thinking. Apostle Paul said in 1 Cor.15:50 that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, neither does corruption (flesh) inherit incorruption (spiritual body).

 

[KUWN]

Ok, then what do you make of KJV Heb. 9:26?
[26] For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

I perceive that since the day of Jesus' crucifixion and resurrection, we are STILL in the end of the world, but it is only as long as God allows it to exist during the extension of His Grace and longsuffering, for us to have faith in His Son Jesus.
2 Peter 3
[9] The Lord is not slack concerning his promise [of salvation], as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
[15] And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation [during the 1000 years]; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

For me and many others, we understand that the period of "a 1000 years" is spiritually discerned as being figurative, having no defined end date except when God the Father decides His Age of Grace shall end, and sends Jesus suddenly to redeem His Saints.

Surely you don't think that there was a different reason for describing the period of "a thousand years" in 2 Peter ch. 3?

Using your spiritual/metaphorical method to interpret passages, I have no disagreement with your conclusions. What you wrote in this post is correct, but their could yet be another interpretation method. Some people interpret scripture allegorically, which would radically differ from your method, and final interpretation.

And yet there are other interpretive methods. As I mentioned earlier, I use the literal interpretive method. People don't differ in interpretations, but they differ in interpretive methods which . I suspect there are numerous ways to interpret a passage using the spiritual method. This method makes it hard to refute, because it is up to the interpreter to decide what the spiritual text is saying.

Worse than the spiritual method is the allegorical method. Using this method, there is an endless number of interpretations. You can not refute this method either.

My apologetic approach of literal interpretation gives me the assurance that my interpretation is correct because it can be falsified. There are not numerous interpretations using the literal method. Just as in your spiritual method will yield numerous interpretations, while the literal approach has a limited number of meanings. Let me clarify something. There are shades of meaning within the literal interpretations, but each interpretation is backed by a literal analysis of the words and phrases and only has a few options.

 

[Earburner]

I do not understand what you are saying.

Were Jesus, James, Peter, John, Paul, Apollos all wrong/mistaken? Did God not know that He will be longsuffering, before He has been longsuffering?

God the Father has been longsuffering for a very, very long time, not only for Israel to repent towards Him through faith in Jesus, but even more so, ALL the Gentiles of "whosoever will".

Unfortunately, the very people of Israel, of whom should have known who Jesus was, was rejected by them and then crucified to death. In that act of "abomination", that they committed, in "the shedding of the innocent blood" of God's only begotten Son (Prov. 6:17) they sealed their own fate of destruction and desolation and did receive that judgment in 70AD and onward, whereby altogether they as a people claiming to be of God and for God, have become nothing but a stumbling stone against the opportunity of God's Grace and salvation towards all people.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Are you referring to Heaven of the Millennium? In the Millennium, which Daniel said would be after Christ's Second Coming, people in their natural bodies will enter the Millennium, and there will be death in the Millennium. I interpret all Scripture literally. so our prophetic interpretive model is radically different.

Who exactly are these people you think will enter the Millennium in their natural bodies? It can't be anyone who doesn't know God or who rejected the gospel of Christ.

2 Thessalonians 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; 10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Using your spiritual/metaphorical method to interpret passages, I have no disagreement with your conclusions. What you wrote in this post is correct, but their could yet be another interpretation method. Some people interpret scripture allegorically, which would radically differ from your method, and final interpretation.

And yet there are other interpretive methods. As I mentioned earlier, I use the literal interpretive method. People don't differ in interpretations, but they differ in interpretive methods which . I suspect there are numerous ways to interpret a passage using the spiritual method. This method makes it hard to refute, because it is up to the interpreter to decide what the spiritual text is saying.

Worse than the spiritual method is the allegorical method. Using this method, there is an endless number of interpretations. You can not refute this method either.

My apologetic approach of literal interpretation gives me the assurance that my interpretation is correct because it can be falsified. There are not numerous interpretations using the literal method. Just as in your spiritual method will yield numerous interpretations, while the literal approach has a limited number of meanings. Let me clarify something. There are shades of meaning within the literal interpretations, but each interpretation is backed by a literal analysis of the words and phrases and only has a few options.

Let's put your literal method to the test. How do you interpret these passages...

1 Thessalonians 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. 4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

 

[Earburner]

Using your spiritual/metaphorical method to interpret passages, I have no disagreement with your conclusions. What you wrote in this post is correct, but their could yet be another interpretation method. Some people interpret scripture allegorically, which would radically differ from your method, and final interpretation.

And yet there are other interpretive methods. As I mentioned earlier, I use the literal interpretive method. People don't differ in interpretations, but they differ in interpretive methods which . I suspect there are numerous ways to interpret a passage using the spiritual method. This method makes it hard to refute, because it is up to the interpreter to decide what the spiritual text is saying.

Worse than the spiritual method is the allegorical method. Using this method, there is an endless number of interpretations. You can not refute this method either.

My apologetic approach of literal interpretation gives me the assurance that my interpretation is correct because it can be falsified. There are not numerous interpretations using the literal method. Just as in your spiritual method will yield numerous interpretations, while the literal approach has a limited number of meanings. Let me clarify something. There are shades of meaning within the literal interpretations, but each interpretation is backed by a literal analysis of the words and phrases and only has a few options.

The interpretation of the scriptures is accomplished by two methods:
1. Through the wisdom of men.
2. By the teaching of the Holy Spirit within us.
1 John 2
[27] But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

I urge all to prayerfully and thoroughly study all of 1 Cor. ch. 2, and learn as to which mind you are listening to: the Mind of Christ, or the wisdom of the minds of men,....including that of our own.

 

[Earburner]

On that last day of this world, God's consuming fire will burn man's works off the surface of this earth (2 Peter 3:10). That is how all still alive on the day will be "changed", with their flesh being cast off, instantly, "at the twinkling of an eye". And that is how our "spiritual body" that we each already have living inside our flesh today, will be suddenly revealed.

Are you saying that everyone will be changed, because they have a spiritual body dwelling within them, whether they are born again of the Holy Spirit or not??

 

[Jay Ross]

A. Rev. 21
[4] And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more {second} death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

What this verse is telling us about the "second death" is that after the completion of the final judgement and its determination, that the second death will no longer exist when God begins to renew/refurbish the Heavens and the Earth.

The second premise that there will be no more births does not make sense: -

2Thes 1:2-10: - 3 We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is fitting, because your faith grows exceedingly, and the love of every one of you all abounds toward each other, 4 so that we ourselves boast of you among the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that you endure, 5 which is manifest evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you also suffer; 6 since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with tribulation those who trouble you, 7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, 8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who [d]believe, because our testimony among you was believed.

What does make sense is that after the GWTR judgement, there is no further opportunity to be born again and that our choices to reject God and His statutes is final and cannot be changed.

 

[Earburner]

What this verse is telling us about the "second death" is that after the completion of the final judgement and its determination, that the second death will no longer exist when God begins to renew/refurbish the Heavens and the Earth.

The second premise that there will be no more births does not make sense: -

2Thes 1:2-10: - 3 We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is fitting, because your faith grows exceedingly, and the love of every one of you all abounds toward each other, 4 so that we ourselves boast of you among the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that you endure, 5 which is manifest evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you also suffer; 6 since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with tribulation those who trouble you, 7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, 8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who [d]believe, because our testimony among you was believed.

What does make sense is that after the GWTR judgement, there is no further opportunity to be born again and that our choices to reject God and His statutes is final and cannot be changed.

Jesus said it this way:
John 11
[26] And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

He then explained to the repentant thief on the cross, how and when a person dies in faith believing, he is saved and secured into eternity:
Luke 23
[42] And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
[43] And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

And then as Jesus died on the cross, he proved the reality of His promise, that faithful OC. Israel (the figurative 144,000) had been waiting for. (Malachi 3:16; Rev. 6:9-11):
Mat. 27
[50] Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
[51] And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
[52] And the graves were opened; and MANY bodies of the saints which slept arose,
[53] And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
[54] Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.

 

[KUWN]

The interpretation of the scriptures is accomplished by two methods:
1. Through the wisdom of men.
2. By the teaching of the Holy Spirit within us.
1 John 2
[27] But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

I urge all to prayerfully and thoroughly study all of 1 Cor. ch. 2, and learn as to which mind you are listening to: the Mind of Christ, or the wisdom of the minds of men,....including that of our own.

I can think of about 25 passages where the NT says we are to be taught the word by the leadership in a church. The OT anointing was reserved for the leaders, not the Jews in general. For example, the priests were anointed to teach the people God's word. In the NT, the apostles, the Pastor-Teachers, and the elders were anointed to teach. There may be a different anointing that Christians have to be taught spiritual truth, but the teaching must be present first, and the Holy Spirit does not just do a data dump into your brain. You have to study to show yourself approved unto God. We have to renew our minds to become Christ-like. Jesus prayed that the Father would sanctify the Christians by the truth, the Word is truth.

2nd Cor 1.21 says,

21 Now it is God who makes both us and you (two groups) stand firm in Christ. He anointed us (not you),

22 set his seal of ownership on us (apostles, pastor-teachers, elders, etc), and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

So, the leaders are anointed, the congregation has the Holy Spirit in them to aide their learning of spiritual truth.

1 John 2
[27] But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

The Apostle John is writing to the leaders about the false teachers and advised them that they don't need someone to teach them, they have already been taught by the Apostles and elders. Now it is the pastor's job (obligation) to teach the congregations. The congregation is to sit under the teaching of their pastor-teacher.

Paul even rebukes some of those of the congregation for being babes, they can't handle the meat of the word, not because the Holy Spirit failed, but because the babes were lazy and unmotivated. They don't just say, Holy Spirit give me wisdom and then just wait around for the Spirit to fill them with doctrine.