if i wanted to become a catholic

[GodsGrace]

calvin is a death sentence , there is no denying that fact .
But do allow me some words
LET US GET IN THE BIBLE AND STAY IN THE BIBLE and if any man , even a talking donkey
or an angel appears and speaks one word contrary , DO NOT HEED IT .
calvin was not even SOLA SCRIPTA . HE was sola HOW CALVIN VIEWS what little scrips HE DID KNOW .
HE was not sola scripta . HE was sola calvin . as are many who even use the term sola scripta .
THEY aint sola bible anything , they sola whatever my ears wanted hear and whatever men say is scripta .
THESE people didnt even KNOW the scrips . NOT WELL , just enough to be dangerous .
They knew enough truth to have an appearance of knowing TRUTH , but anyone
who knew the TRUTH would realize , THEY DONT know THE TRUTH , only truths twisted .

I agree.
But I really dislike when a denomination is misrepresented.
I dislike Calvinism...but I know why.
I studied it for myself for a really long time.

The other member clearly stated that he learned from a priest that left the church
and is condemning it. I'm sure he has his reasons for this.

I respect those that CORRECTLY state what the CC teaches but disagree with it.
Those that hate any denomination without first knowing what it teaches...
are not to be respected....

The CC teaches that TO BE SAVED....the correct scripture is Ephesians 2:8-9
He also stated that Christ is recrucified at every Mass. This is just not true.

If the other member wishes to discuss other teachings...that's on him to bring them up and not give a blanket denunciation
of the entire church.

 

[amigo de christo]

A member on a different Forum just posted that our good works are like dung to God.
We sound pretty bad to outsiders.
Pretty bad.

It depends on what one means by that .
If our works are done in the lens of attaining righteousness
looking good of men , THEN THEY TOTAL DUNG in the eyes of GOD .
EVEN our praises mean NOTHING to GOD if the HEART IS NOT TRULY FOR HIM .
many do as they do to either be seen of men
or beleive its what makes them good and or good enough in the eyes of GOD . IF SO they have DECIEVED THEMSELVES .
HOWEVER , with that said
MANY use that line as a means TO continue IN SIN and to attack those who DO correct sin
and remind folks about FAITH WITHOUT WORKS as in ITS TOTALLY DEAD . i see men do both my friend .
AND BOTH are super deadly .
But i am telling us all
IF folks are like i once was and could lip HIS NAME and yet love sin , justify themselves ,
preach some kind of hyper grace THAT DARN SURE AINT GRACE
as it sure does allow sin and sins upon people . THEY LOST .
many love thier sin
many love the cares and pleasures in life , the lusts
MANY are AS DEAD AS I ONCE WAS . many follow another jesus and i am TELLING US
that one wont be saving them . IT has led them only into rebellion against THE TRUE CHRIST and TRUE GOD .

 

[bdavidc]

Actually bdavidc
The CC teaches Ephesians 2:8-9 for salvation.

And I haven't posted ANYTHING from the CCC...
ALL my posts are from the bible --- I hope you at least believe the bible because I'm finding that some don't even do that.

Some believe obedience to God is not necessary....
Now THAT is a different gospel....

I agree and this is also what the CC teaches.


Please post something I posted that is from "Rome" instead of the bible.
You repeat because you don't really know what the CC teaches...
so you babble about something you heard here or there.


You haven't said anything yet.
You STILL haven't.

For instance,,,why haven't you posted something from a Catholic source that states that Jesus is RECRUCIFIED at every Mass?

I'll tell you why...
because you won't find such a statement because it isn't true.

So why come on here and spew lies about a denomination you know nothing about?

I haven't seen any verses bdavidc.
You haven't provided any.

And you've gotten 1 Cor 2:14 way out of context.

Are we discussing the natural man here?
I thought we were discussing believers.


Wow.
Yeah.
This is the 3rd time now that I'm stating that what you've posted above is what the CC teaches.
The problem is that you're not really interested.

You'd rather feed your hate instead.
And Jesus said to love our neighbor.
No love in you bdavidc.


How do you know what I know or do not know or accept or do not accept?
Have we had a serious discussion about this?
I think not.

You know what happens to those that ASSUME.

Yes sir.
Your mouth must be stopped.
Seem like YOU don't obey scripture at all.

It is nothing less than rudeness to tell me that I am full of hate and that I “say nothing and lie.” You even had the audacity to ask for my “mouth to be stopped.” Foolish person! Does the Bible not say, “Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?” (Galatians 4:16). The truth has a way of shutting down those who try to silence it.

You said that I should not “argue the same old recycled garbage,” and that the Catholic Church teaches the same gospel. NO it does not! The gospel is that “Christ died for our sins… was buried, and… rose again the third day” (1 Corinthians 15:3–4). The Bible says we are “justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus” (Romans 3:24). Catholicism requires sacraments, purgatory, mediators, and rituals. That is “another gospel” (Galatians 1:6–9). Deny it all you want, but the system of Rome itself binds salvation to baptism, confession, Mass, and obedience to its authority. That is not grace through faith alone.

You made fun of me for parroting Scripture. I parrot it because it never changes! God commands, “Preach the word… reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine” (2 Timothy 4:2). You throw verses back at me like “out of context.” Yet you never provide from Scripture where I am wrong. Instead, you simply repeat Catholic tradition and then pretend it is the Bible. Jesus warned, “Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition” (Mark 7:13). That is exactly what Catholicism has done.

And the love thing , love is not telling me to keep quiet. Real love warns. Ezekiel 33: 8 says if we do not warn the wicked, their blood is on our hands. If I am telling you the truth of salvation in Christ alone, that is love. What you perceive as “hate” is obedience to God.

The point is this: salvation is in Christ alone and nowhere else. It is not in Rome, not in sacraments, not in works. “Neither is there salvation in any other” (Acts 4:12). If you trust a false system, then you are rejecting the finished work of Christ. That is why I will keep on spewing Scripture, whether you like it or call it rude.

You said, “For instance,,,why haven't you posted something from a Catholic source that states that Jesus is RECRUCIFIED at every Mass?” well here it is:

The reason is simple: Catholic sources don’t use the word “re-crucify” because they know that would expose the false teaching too plainly. Instead, they cloak it with terms like “the sacrifice of the Mass,” or say it is the “same sacrifice of Calvary made present again.” The Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC 1367) says:

“The sacrifice of Christ and the sacrifice of the Eucharist are one single sacrifice… the same Christ who offered himself once in a bloody manner on the altar of the cross is contained and is offered in an unbloody manner.”

That’s their wording. But no matter how they phrase it, the teaching is clear: they claim the Mass is the same sacrifice of Christ offered again and again.

 

[amigo de christo]

I agree.
But I really dislike when a denomination is misrepresented.
I dislike Calvinism...but I know why.
I studied it for myself for a really long time.

The other member clearly stated that he learned from a priest that left the church
and is condemning it. I'm sure he has his reasons for this.

I respect those that CORRECTLY state what the CC teaches but disagree with it.
Those that hate any denomination without first knowing what it teaches...
are not to be respected....

The CC teaches that TO BE SAVED....the correct scripture is Ephesians 2:8-9
He also stated that Christ is recrucified at every Mass. This is just not true.

If the other member wishes to discuss other teachings...that's on him to bring them up and not give a blanket denunciation
of the entire church.

I sure hope when say CC
you talk not about that wicked and dire vatican or them popes .
Now i have done very good research my friend .
I examined their own words as well as history .
And i am telling us , that as far back , at least to around the first actual record of popes
which was probably around two hundreds and etc , THEY BEEN IN DEADLY ERROR .
I read a book of the history of the popes . AND The man who wrote it IS catholic , DOES support THE RCC .
BUT AT LEAST HE WAS HONEST ENOUGH
to say the first centuries THEY HAD NO RECORD of popes .
That they merely assumed peter and made a list .
LEAST he was honest . BUT i did read that book .
And what he recorded about the actual RECORDED popes , what little info he had
Specially on the earliest ones , THEY HAD ERROR ALREADY . now he didnt say they did , BUT I SEEN IT .
NO man should ever have called any man MOST HOLY ANYTHING .
And it seems they got worse and worse , SPECIALLY at the merging of the times of constantine .
OH i have no doubt there has always been THE CHRUCH
and that peter and the twelve were the original men of said church .
And that it has always been in the world , BUT NOT OF THE WORLD .
ITS ALIVE TODAY as much as it ever has been . BUT YOU wont find it in many places of men now .
The sheep are scattered my friend . OH BUT THEY KNOW JESUS all right , THEY WONT COMPROMISE EITHER .
THEY WILL NOT conform to this world . THEY AINT GONNA DO IT . you talking to one my friend .
AND no i dont think i am better than anyone , BUT THANK GOD HE PULLED ME OUT OF DARKNESS is all i can say
and put me into the BIBLE to learn and to grow . TO HE I OWE ALL . AND I will not sit by
and watch men in wool LEAD this people into rebellion against GOD and CHRIST . I AINT GONNA DO IT .
And no matter the cost to me , IT WILL JUST be the cost i have to pay for LOVING THE LORD GOD ALL MIGHTY
and the peoples . no matter HOW hated it has made me .

 

[rockytopva]

In whatever church you wish to join I would recommend first getting to know the senior pastor (or priest). If you got a good feeling towards the guy I would look into getting more involved.

 

[bdavidc]

How do you know what I know or do not know or accept or do not accept?
Have we had a serious discussion about this?
I think not.

You know what happens to those that ASSUME.

I know what you accept by what you continually defend. Your words expose your allegiance, and right now, it is not to the pure gospel of Christ alone.

"You know what happens to those that ASSUME." Yes I sure do. That is exactly what Catholics do when they assume their man-made traditions carry the same weight as Scripture. They put men’s opinions above God’s Word. But the Bible warns what happens to people who do that. Jesus said, “Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition” (Mark 7:9). Paul said, “Though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel… let him be accursed” (Galatians 1:8–9). And Revelation 22: 18 warns that if anyone adds to God’s Word, “God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book.”

 

[amigo de christo]

In whatever church you wish to join I would recommend first getting to know the senior pastor (or priest). If you got a good feeling towards the guy I would look into getting more involved.

Okay so if i got a good feeling about joel osteen YA REALLY think i should just go and get more involved .
What i say is GET TO KNOW THY BIBLE .
THEN test all men against the scripture . IF they do or teach contrary to it
Correct them . IF they hear you amen , YOU can work with them
IF NOT and they JUSTIFY THEIR LIES AND SINS , YOU GOTS TO GET OUT , that church is coming DOWN on the DAY OF THE LORD
and the blind cannot lead the blind .

 

[bdavidc]

If you believe in SOLA SCRIPTURA you're a Reformed/Calvinist believer.

There is NO faith system more far from God's love and nature than the Calvinist belief system.

Hear this, I am not a Calvinist. I do not follow a man-made system. I believe what the Bible says and nothing else. Scripture alone is the authority, because “All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness” (2 Timothy 3:16). That is not Calvin, that is the Word of God. You may not believe the bible but don’t think you are saved when you don’t.

The problem is not labels. The problem is truth. Jesus said, “Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth” (John 17:17). When I stand on Scripture alone, I am not holding to a theology men made up, I am bowing to what God has said. Paul said, “Learn not to think of men above that which is written” (1 Corinthians 4:6). That is why I will not add to traditions, philosophies, or systems that explain away or override God’s Word.

I do reject the Catholic false teachings. The Bible teaches salvation is “by grace… through faith… not of works” (Ephesians 2:8–9). Any system that adds works, rituals, or mediators is another gospel. My goal is only to preach Christ, who said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me” (John 14:6). That is the truth I stand on and no more and no less.

 

[rockytopva]

Okay so if i got a good feeling about joel osteen YA REALLY think i should just go and get more involved .
What i say is GET TO KNOW THY BIBLE .
THEN test all men against the scripture . IF they do or teach contrary to it
Correct them . IF they hear you amen , YOU can work with them
IF NOT and they JUSTIFY THEIR LIES AND SINS , YOU GOTS TO GET OUT , that church is coming DOWN on the DAY OF THE LORD
and the blind cannot lead the blind .

It would be nice to know that biblically correct doctrine alone was the solution to all the worlds problems. I have learned the hard way that you can have two people in agreement to correct biblical doctrine. One a wonderful guy... The other full of problems.

Joel Osteen... I uploaded a "Be Good to People" sermon of his to my YouTube site and his legal team filed copyright infringement against me. With so many these days the issues are "Profits" instead of "Prophets." Hard for me to recommend a single church because of issues like these.

 

[GodsGrace]

It is nothing less than rudeness to tell me that I am full of hate and that I “say nothing and lie.” You even had the audacity to ask for my “mouth to be stopped.” Foolish person! Does the Bible not say, “Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?” (Galatians 4:16). The truth has a way of shutting down those who try to silence it.

You said that I should not “argue the same old recycled garbage,” and that the Catholic Church teaches the same gospel. NO it does not! The gospel is that “Christ died for our sins… was buried, and… rose again the third day” (1 Corinthians 15:3–4). The Bible says we are “justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus” (Romans 3:24). Catholicism requires sacraments, purgatory, mediators, and rituals. That is “another gospel” (Galatians 1:6–9). Deny it all you want, but the system of Rome itself binds salvation to baptism, confession, Mass, and obedience to its authority. That is not grace through faith alone.

You made fun of me for parroting Scripture. I parrot it because it never changes! God commands, “Preach the word… reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine” (2 Timothy 4:2). You throw verses back at me like “out of context.” Yet you never provide from Scripture where I am wrong. Instead, you simply repeat Catholic tradition and then pretend it is the Bible. Jesus warned, “Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition” (Mark 7:13). That is exactly what Catholicism has done.

And the love thing , love is not telling me to keep quiet. Real love warns. Ezekiel 33: 8 says if we do not warn the wicked, their blood is on our hands. If I am telling you the truth of salvation in Christ alone, that is love. What you perceive as “hate” is obedience to God.

The point is this: salvation is in Christ alone and nowhere else. It is not in Rome, not in sacraments, not in works. “Neither is there salvation in any other” (Acts 4:12). If you trust a false system, then you are rejecting the finished work of Christ. That is why I will keep on spewing Scripture, whether you like it or call it rude.

You said, “For instance,,,why haven't you posted something from a Catholic source that states that Jesus is RECRUCIFIED at every Mass?” well here it is:

The reason is simple: Catholic sources don’t use the word “re-crucify” because they know that would expose the false teaching too plainly. Instead, they cloak it with terms like “the sacrifice of the Mass,” or say it is the “same sacrifice of Calvary made present again.” The Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC 1367) says:

“The sacrifice of Christ and the sacrifice of the Eucharist are one single sacrifice… the same Christ who offered himself once in a bloody manner on the altar of the cross is contained and is offered in an unbloody manner.”

That’s their wording. But no matter how they phrase it, the teaching is clear: they claim the Mass is the same sacrifice of Christ offered again and again.

You enjoy arguing.
I don't.

But you STILL have not said anything of substance.
You've posted something from the CCC...
THAT is how you debate your point.

WHERE in CCC 1367 does it state that Jesus is RECRUCIFIED at every Mass?
He is offered....
NOT recrucified.

And what makes you think you know more than a monk or a priest?
You believe in some conspiracy?

Nothing much more need be said.
I repeat: You have hate in your heart.
Get rid of the hate and learn to love your brothers in Christ.

 

[GodsGrace]

I know what you accept by what you continually defend. Your words expose your allegiance, and right now, it is not to the pure gospel of Christ alone.

"You know what happens to those that ASSUME." Yes I sure do. That is exactly what Catholics do when they assume their man-made traditions carry the same weight as Scripture.

Where does it state this?

They put men’s opinions above God’s Word. But the Bible warns what happens to people who do that. Jesus said, “Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition” (Mark 7:9). Paul said, “Though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel… let him be accursed” (Galatians 1:8–9). And Revelation 22: 18 warns that if anyone adds to God’s Word, “God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book.”

Calvinism has not only added to the word of God...
It has changed the character of God.
Do you also hate Calvinists?

 

[GodsGrace]

Hear this, I am not a Calvinist. I do not follow a man-made system. I believe what the Bible says and nothing else. Scripture alone is the authority, because “All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness” (2 Timothy 3:16). That is not Calvin, that is the Word of God. You may not believe the bible but don’t think you are saved when you don’t.

The problem is not labels. The problem is truth. Jesus said, “Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth” (John 17:17). When I stand on Scripture alone, I am not holding to a theology men made up, I am bowing to what God has said. Paul said, “Learn not to think of men above that which is written” (1 Corinthians 4:6). That is why I will not add to traditions, philosophies, or systems that explain away or override God’s Word.

I do reject the Catholic false teachings. The Bible teaches salvation is “by grace… through faith… not of works” (Ephesians 2:8–9). Any system that adds works,

You don't believe we Protestants are to do good works?

rituals, or mediators is another gospel. My goal is only to preach Christ, who said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me” (John 14:6). That is the truth I stand on and no more and no less.

Is John 6:44 correct or is John 12:32 correct?

6:44
44 "No one can come to Me unless * the Father who sent Me draws him;


12:32
32 "And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself."

 

[bdavidc]

You enjoy arguing.
I don't.

But you STILL have not said anything of substance.
You've posted something from the CCC...
THAT is how you debate your point.

WHERE in CCC 1367 does it state that Jesus is RECRUCIFIED at every Mass?
He is offered....
NOT recrucified.

And what makes you think you know more than a monk or a priest?
You believe in some conspiracy?

Nothing much more need be said.
I repeat: You have hate in your heart.
Get rid of the hate and learn to love your brothers in Christ.

You said, “You enjoy arguing. I don't.”

That's hilarious. You claim to not like arguing, yet here you are going out of your way to defend every single point of false doctrine that Catholicism spews. The fact is, I am not the one arguing, I am simply pointing to Scripture. You are the one holding fast to man-made tradition and trying to rationalize it. When the Bible says one thing and Rome says another, somebody is wrong, and it isn't the Bible.

You’re also playing word games. “Where does it say recrucify?” The Bible doesn’t need the word “recrucify.” It plainly says Christ’s sacrifice was once for all. Hebrews 9: 26 says, “He hath appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.” Hebrews 10:10 says, “We are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.” Hebrews 10:14 says, “By one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.” That’s final. That’s complete. No repeat. No do-over. No re-offering. No continuation.

The Catechism declares the Mass to be “the same sacrifice of Calvary offered in an unbloody manner.” That is re-presenting His sacrifice again and again. Name it what you want, but it denies the finished work of the cross. Scripture says one offering, once for all, perfected forever. Rome says the offering is still going on. You just can’t have it both ways. It’s a direct contradiction.

Your appeal to priests, monks, or tradition is irrelevant. The Bible says we are “justified by faith without the deeds of the law” (Romans 3: 28) and that “neither is there salvation in any other” (Acts 4:12). The moment you add sacraments, rituals, or the authority of man, you’ve stepped outside the gospel and into “another gospel” (Galatians 1:6–9).

You say, “Nothing much more need be said. I repeat: You have hate in your heart. Get rid of the hate and learn to love your brothers in Christ.”

That's your problem-you equate correction with hate. The Bible says, "Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?" (Galatians 4: 16) Love doesn't pat false gospels on the back, real love warns of them. Ezekiel 33: 8 makes it clear, if I do not warn, their blood will be on my hands. Since Catholicism does teach another way of salvation, then it is love not hate to expose it. What you are calling hate is obedience to God's Word.

 

[bdavidc]

Where does it state this?

Calvinism has not only added to the word of God...
It has changed the character of God.
Do you also hate Calvinists?

You’re dodging. This isn’t about Calvinism, it’s about the false gospel of Rome that you keep defending. Throwing out “Calvinism” is just a distraction. I don’t follow Calvin, Luther, or any man, I follow Christ and His Word alone. The issue is simple: the Bible says we are saved “by grace… through faith… not of works” (Ephesians 2:8–9). Rome adds works, sacraments, and rituals. That makes it “another gospel” (Galatians 1:6–9).

And no, I don’t “hate” anyone. But I will call out any false system that twists Scripture, whether it’s Catholicism, Calvinism, or anything else. Real love warns. Real obedience speaks truth. Stop deflecting and deal with what God’s Word actually says.

 

[bdavidc]

You don't believe we Protestants are to do good works?


Is John 6:44 correct or is John 12:32 correct?

6:44
44 "No one can come to Me unless * the Father who sent Me draws him;


12:32
32 "And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself."

Both verses are correct, because God’s Word never contradicts itself. John 6: 44 shows that no one can come to Christ apart from the Father’s drawing. John 12: 32 shows that the cross is the means by which Christ draws all men, Jew or Gentile, to Himself. The Greek word for “draw” in both verses is helkō, which means to compel or pull toward. It is not a contradiction, it is two sides of the same truth.

The Father draws by His Spirit through the message of the cross. That’s why Paul wrote, “It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe” (1 Corinthians 1:21). The drawing is real, but it still requires a response of faith. Many resist, which is why Jesus also said, “Ye will not come to me, that ye might have life” (John 5:40).

So yes, John 6: 44 is true, and John 12:32 is true. The Father draws, and the Son draws, and the Spirit convicts. Salvation is God’s work from start to finish, but He calls all men to repent and believe (Acts 17:30).

 

[bdavidc]

You don't believe we Protestants are to do good works?

That has nothing to do with what I said. I never denied that believers are to do good works. The Bible is clear: “We are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works” (Ephesians 2:10). But notice the order—first salvation by grace through faith (Ephesians 2: 8–9), then good works as the fruit of salvation, not the cause of it. Catholicism reverses that by making works, rituals, and sacraments part of the way of salvation. That’s “another gospel” (Galatians 1:6–9).

So don’t twist my words. Yes, true Christians will do good works, but those works are evidence of salvation, not the basis of it.

 

[amigo de christo]

It would be nice to know that biblically correct doctrine alone was the solution to all the worlds problems. I have learned the hard way that you can have two people in agreement to correct biblical doctrine. One a wonderful guy... The other full of problems.

Joel Osteen... I uploaded a "Be Good to People" sermon of his to my YouTube site and his legal team filed copyright infringement against me. With so many these days the issues are "Profits" instead of "Prophets." Hard for me to recommend a single church because of issues like these.

Well my point is that joel osteen , OH HE A MEGA false preacher .
However even the false at times might speak a truth every now and again . IT is what makes them so darn dangerous .
And i do mean VERY and HIGHLY dangerous . we got fleecers all over and amongst christendom now .
I truly never have seen a false sensual love take so many captive so fast . My goodness its leading them as one
to what both they and the false religoins beleive is love and is GOD but it is THE DEVIL HIMSELF and his plan
for world peace . They about to butcher sheep thinking they do the will of GOD too . OH its gonna lead
to the total end of this ol word , ON THE DAY OF THE LORD. I never seen so many run to this false love
they think is of GOD but it is of satan . Never have i truly ever seen a delusoin like this one . NEVER .

 

[GodsGrace]

Both verses are correct, because God’s Word never contradicts itself. John 6: 44 shows that no one can come to Christ apart from the Father’s drawing. John 12: 32 shows that the cross is the means by which Christ draws all men, Jew or Gentile, to Himself. The Greek word for “draw” in both verses is helkō, which means to compel or pull toward. It is not a contradiction, it is two sides of the same truth.

The Father draws by His Spirit through the message of the cross. That’s why Paul wrote, “It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe” (1 Corinthians 1:21). The drawing is real, but it still requires a response of faith. Many resist, which is why Jesus also said, “Ye will not come to me, that ye might have life” (John 5:40).

So yes, John 6: 44 is true, and John 12:32 is true. The Father draws, and the Son draws, and the Spirit convicts. Salvation is God’s work from start to finish, but He calls all men to repent and believe (Acts 17:30).

OK
You're not a Calvinist.

 

[amigo de christo]

Both verses are correct, because God’s Word never contradicts itself. John 6: 44 shows that no one can come to Christ apart from the Father’s drawing. John 12: 32 shows that the cross is the means by which Christ draws all men, Jew or Gentile, to Himself. The Greek word for “draw” in both verses is helkō, which means to compel or pull toward. It is not a contradiction, it is two sides of the same truth.

The Father draws by His Spirit through the message of the cross. That’s why Paul wrote, “It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe” (1 Corinthians 1:21). The drawing is real, but it still requires a response of faith. Many resist, which is why Jesus also said, “Ye will not come to me, that ye might have life” (John 5:40).

So yes, John 6: 44 is true, and John 12:32 is true. The Father draws, and the Son draws, and the Spirit convicts. Salvation is God’s work from start to finish, but He calls all men to repent and believe (Acts 17:30).

well the all inclusive lie of anti christ and of satan by means of intefaith sure has convinced
even a lot of christains SO CALLED ANYWAY , that its not even necessary to have had to beleive on JESUS .
THEY HUGGING MUSLIMS and KISSING KORANS and beleiving we all coming to the same GOD .
IT didnt suprise me that the false religoins have bought into the lie
BUT CHRISTAINS , WELL me oh my , WE NEVER SHOULD HAVE . it is NOT looking good at all in these last and
yes i said last , and final hours on this earth . JESUS will TREAD the MIGHTY WINEPRESS of the wrath of GOD
upon this people . FOR JESUS has been denied and a false love god has become their GOD . THIS is a very highly
deceptive deceptoin , for it has come in using the phrase GOD IS LOVE and yet BY this love
HAS MADE THE PATH TO HIM VERY BROAD AND SIN ACCEPTING , EVEN UNBELIEF ACCEPTING . many now buy it .
WE BETTER NOT buy it .

 

[GodsGrace]

That has nothing to do with what I said. I never denied that believers are to do good works.

You said this.

Any system that adds works,

(you do not believe in any system that adds works.)

So do you believe you are to do good works or not?

This seems to me to have become a very confused question for some.
They reply that, yes, we are to do good works...
but somehow they are not necessary.

The Bible is clear: “We are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works” (Ephesians 2:10). But notice the order—first salvation by grace through faith (Ephesians 2: 8–9), then good works as the fruit of salvation, not the cause of it. Catholicism reverses that by making works, rituals, and sacraments part of the way of salvation. That’s “another gospel” (Galatians 1:6–9).

So don’t twist my words. Yes, true Christians will do good works, but those works are evidence of salvation, not the basis of it.

I believe our good works keep us saved because we're being obedient to Jesus and Jesus said to do them.

And of course AFTER salvation...
are those unsaved required to do good works?
No.