Is it possible to lose salvation?

[Michiah-Imla]

Micah is following their own doctrine

My posts are mostly scripture quotations that speak for themselves.

Your accusation is bizarre.

 

[ProDeo]

Also, I noticed you didn't address anything that I wrote.

Correct.

It appears to me I can't have a normal discussion with you.

 

[pandaflower]

he is no different than a pharisee really

1. He thinks is is by obedience to the law he is saved
2. He pumps his chest prainsing God he is not like us sinners.
3. He does not understand what sin really is.. because he thinks he has none. hence like the pharisee he waters down the law

And what did Jesus say of the Pharisees?

 

[Marymog]

Like I said in my previous post, the Scriptures were hidden from the people, book printing changed everything. And needless to say, not always for the better.

Lol ProDeo.......Scripture wasn't "hidden from the people".

The normal thing to say would be something like: I believe Scriptures were hidden from the people.

Just because YOU believe it, doesn't make it true.

Here is a history lesson on Scripture: Letters were written. It wasn't until 300 years after these letters were written that The Church decided which of these letters were considered Scripture since not all churches agreed with what was Scripture. So for the first 300 year of Christianity there was no defined "Scripture" (NT). Christians, most of whom could not read or afford to buy a expensive handwritten book, heard Scripture from their priests on Sundays or on a daily basis (Romans 10:17) sooooo it wasn't hidden like you believe. These very expensive handwritten bibles were available in the church for those who wanted to go and read it. Then the printing press came along and they were mass produced. Literacy increased and soon everyone who could read the bible and thought they knew how to interpret it better than The Church. Protestantism started and the 'unlearned and unstable twisted Scripture unto their own destruction' (2 Peter 3:16).

You're welcome!

History teacher Mary

 

[Michiah-Imla]

He pumps his chest prainsing God he is not like us sinners.

I have never thanked God that I wasn’t like sinners around me (false accusations my friend).

I have never bragged to anyone that I am superior because of how I walk before God in Christ.

I am simply exposing a false doctrine with the word of God.

Somehow you interpret that as me pumping my chest.

 

[Marymog]

Correct.

It appears to me I can't have a normal discussion with you.

Lol...You crack me up ProDeo.

Yes, you can have a normal discussion with me. But you aren't trying to discuss anything now, are you? You didn't address 1 single point in my post. If you wanted to have a discussion you would have quoted my entire post and responded to it. But you didn't, did you? Instead you quoted 1 sentence out of many sentences I wrote and in your response to that 1 sentence you tried to belittle me and scold me.

Soooo now that I think about it.......I guess we can't have a normal discussion because you don't want ANY discussion.

Be well......Mary

 

[pandaflower]

My posts are mostly scripture quotations that speak for themselves.

Your accusation is bizarre.

No.
Your ideology is contrary to the Gospel.

 

[LoveYeshua]

Are you aware that God's Son has taken the sin of the world upon Himself, and all who call on the Name of Jesus shall be saved?

Do you know what "saved" means?

Its means eternally forgiven, ...

Notice this verse.

"Jesus is the ONE TIME.........ETERNAL.... Sacrifice for sin".

See that word "eternal"?.........that means that Jesus is the ETERNAL Sin bearer, for all who are SAVED.

Like this...."God hath made JESUS... to BE SIN...........for us"..

= The "US" is all the born again.

Behold, then, why did Christ say:

Jhn 15:1 “I am the true vine, and My Father is the keeper of the vineyard.
Jhn 15:2 He cuts off every branch in Me that bears no fruit, and every branch that does bear fruit, He prunes to make it even more fruitful.
Jhn 15:3 You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you.
Jhn 15:4 Remain in Me, and I will remain in you. Just as no branch can bear fruit by itself unless it remains in the vine, neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in Me.
Jhn 15:5 I am the vine and you are the branches. The one who remains in Me, and I in him, will bear much fruit. For apart from Me you can do nothing.
Jhn 15:6 If anyone does not remain in Me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers. Such branches are gathered up, thrown into the fire, and burned.
Jhn 15:7 If you remain in Me and My words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you.
Jhn 15:8 This is to My Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, proving yourselves to be My disciples.
Jhn 15:9 As the Father has loved Me, so have I loved you. Remain in My love.

Do you see the intended meaning?, to me it is clear.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

No.
Your ideology is contrary to the Gospel.

Do you have any scripture to back up this claim?

I see scripture isn’t important to you since none of the Bible verses I quoted had no impact on you.

 

[LoveYeshua]

how can you tell a person who has true faith in God and those who do not really have faith God?

by their works!, simple!

 

[pandaflower]

Do you have any scripture to back up this claim?

I see scripture isn’t important to you

That's a lie.

since none of the Bible verses I quoted had no impact on you.

Of course they didn't. You're trying to lead Christians into your realm of insecurity.

You think Christians can lose their Salvation. You think Christians have to work to stay Saved.

You insist that's true.
It isn't.

So what you are accusing me of is your transferring how you think to Christians you oppose.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

none of the Bible verses I quoted had no impact on you.

Of course they didn't

You're trying to lead Christians into your realm of insecurity.

No, not in any wise.

I’m trying to lead Christians into the realm of biblical truth.

 

[LoveYeshua]

That's a lie.

Of course they didn't. You're trying to lead Christians into your realm of insecurity.

You think Christians can lose their Salvation. You think Christians have to work to stay Saved.

You insist that's true.
It isn't.

So what you are accusing me of is your transferring how you think to Christians you oppose.

“The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom, And the knowledge of the Holy One is understanding."
proverbs 9:10

 

[LoveYeshua]

you did not answer my question..

can you show me where Jesus (and paul) mentioned any works are required in those passages I showed.

John 1: 11: 11 He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. 12. But AS MANY AS HAVE RECIEVED HIM, to THEM he gave the right to become children, even TO THEM WHO BELIEVE 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. (no works)

John 3, FOR God so loved the world he gave his only son that WHOEVER BELIEVES (trusts) in him will NEVER PERISH, and LIVE FOREVER (eternal life) for the son was not sent to judge, but that the world might be saved, he who BELIEVES is NOT CONDEMNED, he who does not believe is condemned already (no works)

John 4: 13 Jesus answered and said to her, “Whoever drinks of this water will thirst again, 14 but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will NEVER THIRST. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into EVERLASTING LIFE” (no works)

John 5: 24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he whoever HEARS MY WORD and BELIEVES IN HIM WHO SENT ME who sent Me HAS ETERNAL LIFE and SHALL NOT COME INTO JUDGMENT but HAS PASSED FROM DEATH TO LIFE (No works)

John 6: 35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. HE WHO COMES TO ME shall NEVER HUNGER and he who BELIEVES IN ME shall NEVER THIRST (NO WORKS)

John 6: 37: and THE ONE WHO COMES TO ME I WILL BY NO MEANS CAST OUT 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, thatof all He has given Me I SHAL LOSE NOTHING, but SHOULD RAISE IT UP ON THE LAST DAY. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that EVERYONE WHO SEES AND BELIEVES IN HIM MAY HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE AND I WILL (NOT MIGHT) RAISE HIM ON THE LAST DAY (NO WORKS)

John 6: 47 Most assuredly, I say to you, HE WHO BELIEVES IN ME HAS EVERLASTING LIFE. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and are dead. 50 This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that THAT ONE MAY EAT OF IT AND NOT DIE 51 am the living bread which came down from heaven. IF ANYONE EATS THIS BREAD HE WILL LIVE FOREVER (NO WORKS)

John 6: 63 It is the SPIRIT WHO GIVES LIFE ; the flesh profits nothing. THE WORDS THAT I SPEAK to you ARE SPIRIT AND THEY ARE LIFE (SIGNIFYING THE BREAD FROM HEAVEN, THE FLESH AND BOOD ARE THE WORDS JESUS SPOKE. NOT THE PHYSICAL FOOD OR WORKS,)

EPH 1: 13 In Him YOU ALSO TRUSTED , after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also ,HAVING BELIEVED YOU WERE SEALED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT OF PROMISE 14 who IS THE GAURANTEE OF OUR INHERITANCE until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

THE INHERITANCE HE SAID WE ALREADY HAD IN THE 1ST 12 VERSES. (AGAIN, NO WORKS)

eph 2: 4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses,MADE US ALIVE together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and RAISED US UP TOGETHER , and MADE US SIT TOGETHER IN HEAVENLY PLACES 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For BY GRACE YOU HAVE BEEN SAVED (A COMPLETED ACTION) THROUGH FAITH , (AS MANY AS HAVE RECIEVED) and that NOT OF YOURSELVES ; it IS THE GIFT OF GOD, 9 NOT OF WORKS LEST ANYONE SHOULD BOAST (NO WORKS)

rom 4: 3 For what does the Scripture say? “ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD AND HE ACOUNTED IT TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS.” 4 Now TO HIM WHO WORKS, THE WAGES ARE NOT COUNTED AS GRACE BUT DEBT (Works cancels out grace. and makes it a wage) 5 But TO HIM WHO DOES NOT WORK but BELIEVES ON HIM WHO JUSTIFIES THE UNGOLDY , his HIS FAITH IS ACCOUNTED FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS (AGAIN NO WORKS. PERIOD)

rom 4: 16 Therefore IT IF OF FAITH THAT IT MAY BE ACCORDING TO GRACE , so that THE PROMISE MAY BE SURE TO ALL THE SEED not only to those who are of the law, but also TO THOSE WHO ARE OF THE FAITH OF ABRAHAM , who is the father of us all (AGAIN, NO WORKS, IT IS OF GRACE THROUGH FAITH)

Rom 4: 23 Now it was not written for his sake alone that it was imputed to him, 24 but ALSO FOR US, IT SHALL BE IMPUTED TO US WHO BELIEVE IN HIM WHO RAISED UP JESUS OUR LORD FROM THE DEAD , 25 who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was RAISED BECAUSE OF OUR JUSTIFICATION (AGAIN NO WORKS)

Rom 11: 6 And IF BY GRACE, THAN IT IS NO LONGER OF WORKS, ; otherwise GRACE IS NO LONGER GRACE.But IF IT IS OF WORKS, THEN IT IS NO LONGER OF GRACE. OTHERWISE WORK IS NO LONGER WORK (AS i HAVE SAID NUMEROUS TIME, GRACE + WORKS = WORKS.. GRACE AND WORKS CAN NOT MIX IN THE AREA OF SALVATION. ITS LIKE MIXING OIL AND WATER)

2 Tim 1: 9 who HAS SAVED US (A COMPLETED ACTION) and called us with a holy calling, NOT ACCORDING TO OUR WORKS , but ACCORDING TO HIS OWN PURPOSE AND GRACE which was GIVEN TO US in Christ Jesus BEFORE TIME BEGAN (AGAIN, NO WORKS. BUT GRACE)

Titus 3: 4 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, 5 NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS (GOOD DEEDS) WHICH WE HAVE DONE , but ACCORDING TO HIS MERCY HE SAVED US through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 that HAVING BEEN JUSTIFIED BY HIS GRACE we should become HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE
(AGAIN, NO QUESTION HERE. PAUL LEAVES NO QUESTION. NO GOOD DEED CAN SAVE US,. WE ARE SAVED BY GODS MERCY, AND GIVEN THE HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE. WHICH IS PROMISED BEFORE TIME BEGAN

Titus 1: 2 in HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE which GOD WHO CAN NOT LIE PROMISED BEFORE TIME BEGAN

this is what our faith is in, the grace and mercy of God. not our deeds.

and I am not sure why you mentioned behold. Him and I are not on the same wavelength in all areas.

I have answered already did you read the text? you asked scripture and I delivered scripture as you asked. I take a lot of time to research things and people do not read. I and others on this forum work hard for you guys also in case you did not notice.

I mentioned Behold because the answer I gave could help him if he reads it, I provide scripture and no personal interpretation, remember I am non denominational and am a follower of Christ, I listen to his voice and His only.

 

[ProDeo]

I just told you that the fear of the Lord keeps me from sinning. I quoted the verse to you. I trust in the word of God for guidance in remaining saved.

Your false doctrine has you saying unwise and unbiblical things, like equating your loss of salvation by your failures as a limit on God’s abilities.

God will not keep an unjust person saved who has returned to a life of sin and was moved away from the hope of the gospel after he was reconciled.

“And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel…” (Col 1:21-23, KJV)

Exactly, it ain't over till death.

Rev 2:10 Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and for ten days you will have tribulation. Be faithful unto death, and I will give you the crown of life.

Luke 22:31 “Simon, Simon, behold, Satan demanded to have you, that he might sift you like wheat,
Luke 22:32 but I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail. And when you have turned again, strengthen your brothers.”

Serious warnings, the idea alone the devil may demand to have you.

Knowing my weaknesses I asked the Lord Jesus also to pray for me.

Judas 1:24 Now to him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you blameless before the presence of his glory with great joy,

So there is where my trust is, not in myself.

 

[ProDeo]

Apostle Paul did:

“…I keep under [control] my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.” (1Co 9:27, KJV)

Does not sound very OSAS to me.

 

[pandaflower]

“The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom, And the knowledge of the Holy One is understanding."
proverbs 9:10

Which means,given your impermanence and works based doctrine, you lack understanding.

And fear,respect,of the Lord is not in you. Or,you wouldn't argue counter to the Gospel he gave his life to and for .

 

[pandaflower]

No, not in any wise.

I’m trying to lead Christians into the realm of biblical truth.

False.

As your own posts prove.

Yes or no. Can an indwelt sealed Christian lose Salvation?

Yes or no.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Can an indwelt sealed Christian lose Salvation?

This tells me that you did not read the last few pages of this thread.

But the answer is, Yes.

The Bible is clear on this fact.

 

[LoveYeshua]

False.

As your own posts prove.

Yes or no. Can an indwelt sealed Christian lose Salvation?

Yes or no.

Jesus promised His followers that the Holy Spirit would come to live in them: “And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever—the Spirit of truth… for He dwells with you and will be in you” (John 14:16–17). On the day of Pentecost this promise was fulfilled, for the Spirit came and filled the disciples (Acts 2:4). From then on, believers are said to be temples of God: “Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?” (1 Corinthians 3:16). This is the indwelling of the Spirit.

The question is—can a Christian who has received the Spirit lose salvation? Jesus gave strong warnings. He said, “Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away” (John 15:2). Notice these branches were already “in Him,” but if they became fruitless, they were removed. Again He said, “If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned” (John 15:6). This shows that continuing to abide in Christ is necessary. Faith must remain alive. Do you believe What Christ said Panda?

The Old Testament also warns us: “But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness and commits iniquity… all the righteousness which he has done shall not be remembered; because of the unfaithfulness of which he is guilty… he shall die” (Ezekiel 18:24). This principle is echoed in the New Covenant, for Jesus said, “He who endures to the end shall be saved” (Matthew 24:13). Salvation is not something we hold by a single moment of belief and then live as we please—it must be kept through faithfulness, obedience, and perseverance.

Furthermore, “He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels” (Revelation 3:5).

This means that the names of believers are written in the Book of Life, but the Lord makes clear that not everyone who once believed will remain there. Only those who overcome and endure to the end will keep their name written. This shows us that it is possible for someone to begin in faith, to even be written in the Book, but if they turn away and no longer abide in Christ, their name can be blotted out.

So yes, a believer can fall away if they choose to no longer abide in Christ. That is why we are warned, “Watch and pray, lest you enter into temptation” (Matthew 26:41). The Spirit indwells to guide, strengthen, and seal us for the day of redemption, but God will not force anyone to remain. True salvation is secure for those who continue in faith, but if a person hardens their heart and turns away, they cut themselves off from the very life that saves them.