Is it possible to lose salvation?

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Eternally Grateful

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τὰ γὰρ ὀψώνια τῆς ἁμαρτίας θάνατος Because some wages of a sin death. Thanatos is the deprivation of life and prosperity. It is not nekros, i.e. decaying life. ἁμαρτίας is nominative singular feminine. Sin in translated a plural which is the biggest error.

And he wasn't in the garden?
the wage of sin is death, in the day you eat you shall surely die

Satan did not force eve to sin, nor did he force adam.

Adam and eve chose of their own free will to sin, and they both died instantly (spiritual death) the moment they sinned.
 

Ronald Nolette

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First of all - NONE of those false doctrines are taught in Scripture.
Secondly
there's NO such thing as "Romanism" . . .

Now, I'll make it easy for you. Just show me where Sola Scriptura is taught in Scripture.

I'll wait right here for your well-researched answer . . .
We have already gone down this road. Go back and read what was discussed.

And they are all found in Scripture. The real problem is you do not understand the Scriptures due to the teaching of Romansim.
 

Eternally Grateful

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We have already gone down this road. Go back and read what was discussed.

And they are all found in Scripture. The real problem is you do not understand the Scriptures due to the teaching of Romansim.
they are man followers.

The bible itself says it is able to make a man throughly complete

if the word of God can do this, what more is needed?
 

Ronald Nolette

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lol..

But as many as have recieved him, to THEM he gave the right to become children of God.

Grammatical concept is a person freely recieves the word. and when they do in faith. they are made children of God.

I would go to the rest. But if you can not see it here you will not see it anywhere
Bu8t once again, the passage says nothing about how they receive HIm. Is it by free will or because as Ephesians says they were chosen before the foundation of the world!

The passage in John is merely a simple statement of fact. It says thus: If one does A (receive Him) then B happens(beomce children of God) . It says absolutely nothing about HOW they can receive him.

that is found in romans here:

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

It is the gospel that empowers someone to be able to receive Jesus. Not some imagined free will.

Remember what God says about the unsaved man:

Ephesians 2:1
And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

Romans 8:8

King James Version

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

1 Corinthians 2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

The bible says the unsaved man cannot erceive the things of God, but you say that the unsaved man has some innate capacity to know what is good for salvation and choose it in their own unsaved nature!​

 

Eternally Grateful

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Bu8t once again, the passage says nothing about how they receive HIm. Is it by free will or because as Ephesians says they were chosen before the foundation of the world!
just read what it says.

Who did he give the right to become children of God.

Those who recieve him.

You have God forcing people to believe in him.. this is not a good look for a God trying to prove to the universe he is a God of love
 

BreadOfLife

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We have already gone down this road. Go back and read what was discussed.

And they are all found in Scripture. The real problem is you do not understand the Scriptures due to the teaching of Romansim.
Then, it shouldn't be hard for you to show me.
In fact - it's your DUTY to show me, acording to Scripture . . .

1 Pet. 3:15

But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,

If you can't prove your doctres from Scripture - then your entire Sola Scriptura defense goes right down the drain . . .
 

pandaflower

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τὰ γὰρ ὀψώνια τῆς ἁμαρτίας θάνατος Because some wages of a sin death. Thanatos is the deprivation of life and prosperity. It is not nekros, i.e. decaying life. ἁμαρτίας is nominative singular feminine. Sin in translated a plural which is the biggest error.

And he wasn't in the garden?


The serpent was in the garden.
The serpent beguiled Adam and Eve who were together when they met the serpent. They were at the forbidden tree located in the center of the garden.

They didn't know how to rationalize Gods ultimatum in the face of a wiser serpent who did know right from wrong,good and evil.
And was there with God's permission. Knowing which tree was forbidden. He's the tester.

Adam and Eve disobeyed. God cursed them to suffer separation from him for having eaten of the tree God planted.

God broke Adam and Eve. Satan persuaded them merely to eat what God forbade. Why plant what would be the gateway for sin to enter this world in a garden,in creation on this earth,that God called good.

The trials of Job show us,Satan can do nothing unless God allows it.

God told Satan he could torture Job to test his resolve to stay in faith to God. The only prohibition to that allowance was,Satan could not kill job. So,Satan killed everyone Job loved.

Because that's what God allowed.

Jesus was sacrificed for the sins of the world,the lamb slain, before the world was created.

Some claim that was a standby. In the event Adam and Eve did disobey.

Omniscient Omnipresent Sovereign God sacrificed himself for a possible outcome of a hypothetical? Before he created the world where the possible hypothetical could play out? In a world he'd later call good?


Isaiah 45​

English Standard Version​

Cyrus, God's Instrument​

45 Thus says the Lord to his anointed, to Cyrus,
whose right hand I have grasped,
to subdue nations before him
and to loose the belts of kings,
to open doors before him
that gates may not be closed:
2 “I will go before you
and level the exalted places,[a]
I will break in pieces the doors of bronze
and cut through the bars of iron,
3 I will give you the treasures of darkness
and the hoards in secret places,
that you may know that it is I, the Lord,
the God of Israel, who call you by your name.
4 For the sake of my servant Jacob,
and Israel my chosen,
I call you by your name,
I name you, though you do not know me.
5 I am the Lord, and there is no other,
besides me there is no God;
I equip you, though you do not know me,
6 that people may know, from the rising of the sun
and from the west, that there is none besides me;
I am the Lord, and there is no other.
7 I form light and create darkness;
I make well-being and create calamity;
I am the Lord, who does all these things.

8 “Shower, O heavens, from above,
and let the clouds rain down righteousness;
let the earth open, that salvation and righteousness may bear fruit;
let the earth cause them both to sprout;
I the Lord have created it.
9 “Woe to him who strives with him who formed him,
a pot among earthen pots!
Does the clay say to him who forms it, ‘What are you making?’
or ‘Your work has no handles’?
10 Woe to him who says to a father, ‘What are you begetting?’
or to a woman, ‘With what are you in labor?’”
11 Thus says the Lord,
the Holy One of Israel, and the one who formed him:
“Ask me of things to come;
will you command me concerning my children and the work of my hands?[b]
12 I made the earth
and created man on it;
it was my hands that stretched out the heavens,
and I commanded all their host.
13 I have stirred him up in righteousness,
and I will make all his ways level;
he shall build my city
and set my exiles free,
not for price or reward,”
says the Lord of hosts.

The Lord, the Only Savior​

14 Thus says the Lord:
“The wealth of Egypt and the merchandise of Cush,
and the Sabeans, men of stature,
shall come over to you and be yours;
they shall follow you;
they shall come over in chains and bow down to you.
They will plead with you, saying:
‘Surely God is in you, and there is no other,
no god besides him.’”
15 Truly, you are a God who hides himself,
O God of Israel, the Savior.
16 All of them are put to shame and confounded;
the makers of idols go in confusion together.
17 But Israel is saved by the Lord
with everlasting salvation;
you shall not be put to shame or confounded
to all eternity.
18 For thus says the Lord,
who created the heavens
(he is God!),
who formed the earth and made it
(he established it;
he did not create it empty,
he formed it to be inhabited!):
“I am the Lord, and there is no other.
19 I did not speak in secret,
in a land of darkness;
I did not say to the offspring of Jacob,
‘Seek me in vain.’[c]
I the Lord speak the truth;
I declare what is right.
20 “Assemble yourselves and come;
draw near together,
you survivors of the nations!
They have no knowledge
who carry about their wooden idols,
and keep on praying to a god
that cannot save.
21 Declare and present your case;
let them take counsel together!
Who told this long ago?
Who declared it of old?
Was it not I, the Lord?
And there is no other god besides me,
a righteous God and a Savior;
there is none besides me.
22 “Turn to me and be saved,
all the ends of the earth!
For I am God, and there is no other.
23 By myself I have sworn;
from my mouth has gone out in righteousness
a word that shall not return:
‘To me every knee shall bow,
every tongue shall swear allegiance.’[d]
24 “Only in the Lord, it shall be said of me,
are righteousness and strength;
to him shall come and be ashamed
all who were incensed against him.
25 In the Lord all the offspring of Israel
shall be justified and shall glory.”

Footnotes​

  1. Isaiah 45:2 Masoretic Text; Dead Sea Scroll, Septuagint level the mountains
  2. Isaiah 45:11 A slight emendation yields will you question me about my children, or command me concerning the work of my hands?
  3. Isaiah 45:19 Hebrew in emptiness
  4. Isaiah 45:23 Septuagint every tongue shall confess to God
Isaiah 44
Isaiah 46
 

Taken

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how would these be losing something you never received?

It is a Loss Via a “Forfeiture”.

“Received”… is The act of “possessing”.

“Possessing”… is the Act of One Taking, an Offering of Another.

Possessing… then losing is an act via a “confiscation”.

Not possessing…then losing is an act via a “forfeiture”.

* bank Loans Are “Offered”. You “Take / “Receive Funds”. Failure to “Repay the Funds”, (as agreed) can “Result” in “confiscation” of other assets, you have OFFERED, equaling the Value of the Funds you took, but failed to repay.

* Lottery…Offers you a “Chance to Win Money”… IF you buy a Ticket.
You can “WIN” the “prize money”, IF your numbers Match the Draw. The Prize IS “Yours”, before you “Posses” the Prize.
IF you Fail To Claim, Take, Posses the Prize…Before the Deadline…You LOSE your prize via Forfeiture.

The Receiving of Gods offering of His Gift of Salvation “As well”… Has “IF…THEN”…
Agreements, Deadlines and Results.


Gods Gift Offering is to Alive Living men.
The Agreement to Have / Take is from an Alive Living man.
The Deadline to Agree To Have the Gift, is Made “Before the deadline of a mans bodily Death.”

Once the Gift… IS Given, Taken, Received…
The Gift “so Given” Is Never…
(Rescinded, Revoked, Annulled, Reversed, Canceled, Nullified, Returned, Voided).


How and Why can that Gift… GIVEN and RECEIVED NOT be Revoked / Forfeited?

Because of the “Agreement TO Receive Requires The the one Receiving…
To Literal Giving, or Vow, Promise to Give “His Body unto Death, To the Lord God”… as a “Condition” TO Receive the Gift”.


It is “so to speak” a mans “cost, collateral, thank you, payment of debt to the Lord God” for Accepting His Gift.

The Actual “Gift” is Agreed to WHEN the man is Living.

The Actual “Gift” is Received unto the man IS AFTER an “accounted Dead Body” is Received unto The Lord God.

The Actual Gift is “Given “ to a “mans Body that IS “RENEWED”…AS Scripture teaches, the man being Accounted A New Creature”.

To Revoke such “Gift” would Require the RENEWED body to become Dead and the OLD Dead Body to be Revived.


I find Zero Scriptures Teaching of a man BECOMING a New Creature…THEN becoming AGAIN his OLD Creature to Then Have his Gift “Revoked”.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

MonoBiblical

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the wage of sin is death, in the day you eat you shall surely die

Satan did not force eve to sin, nor did he force adam.

Adam and eve chose of their own free will to sin, and they both died instantly (spiritual death) the moment they sinned.
Rather they didn't live or prosper on this sin.
 

MonoBiblical

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Then, it shouldn't be hard for you to show me.
In fact - it's your DUTY to show me, acording to Scripture . . .

1 Pet. 3:15

But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,

If you can't prove your doctres from Scripture - then your entire Sola Scriptura defense goes right down the drain . . .
Rome has this problem.
 

BreadOfLife

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Rome has this problem.
Not at ALL.
We don't believe in the false Protestant invention of Sola Scriptura.

That's never been a teaching oif the 2000 year-old Church.
Why is it than NONE of you can show me this doctrine fro Scripture??
 

MonoBiblical

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Not at ALL.
We don't believe in the false Protestant invention of Sola Scriptura.

That's never been a teaching oif the 2000 year-old Church.
Why is it than NONE of you can show me this doctrine fro Scripture??
They don't believe the bible much in Rome. There was no separation of Elder and Bishop under the first system. Rome is not 2000 years old, the Roman Church began with the great schism and invented many new heresies.

Rome does not believe in oral tradition, because it writes down its rules in Latin, which nobody but a linguist should learn.
 

pandaflower

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What Is Sola Scriptura? Sola Scriptura, translated as "Scripture alone," is one of several Latin phrases that came to prominence during the Protestant Reformation. This idea asserts that the Bible alone should be treated as the ultimate and most trustworthy authority in all matters of faith, doctrine, and Christian living.


2 Timothy 3:16-17

All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.
 
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LoveYeshua

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@Eternally Grateful doesn't espouse that.

False teachers here who insist we choose to save ourselves and conversely can also choose to lose salvation do.

If that's against the rules, there are many rule breakers still at it.




If they were they wouldn't feel insecure thinking it can be lost.

That's a shame. Jesus never died for,maybe.


Here's the thing about that liberal ideology.

Jesus never said it. Eternal Salvation. Eternally irrevocably saved by God and his grace.

No Christian should be amenable to that ideology that insists God didn't mean what he taught and died to guarantee forever.

If God can save us,he can keep us . When he knew us before he created the world,he knew who were his before we existed.

Hubris and human worldly passion thinks we can undo what God predestined?

That's not just blasphemy. That's stupidity. And wilful denial of scripture that teaches just the opposite .

Tolerance for those who think human ego can undo God's will?
Heaven forbid!

Because they aren't .


You're not just picking on...

Error is one thing. Insisting on reiterating it after it is proven false and umbilical is quite another.

All that need be done is to think of what happens when a sinner repents and is reborn in Christ. All of it.

And then ask,where in Scripture does Jesus detail all that will be lifted,eradicated and reversed,if the redeemed choose it?

And if they later realize their mistake? God works all over again? Reapplies his seal,etc?
Hello Panda, please read to the end. I answer your questions based on scripture.

When a sinner repents and is born again, it is a true work of God, but the Scriptures also show that a person can turn back if they choose. Jesus said in John 15:6, “If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.” This makes it clear that we must continue in Him, not only begin with Him. The question was asked, if someone who was redeemed falls away, does God have to work all over again? The answer is that God never changes and His work is perfect, but man can depart from Him by his own choice. Ezekiel 18:24 says, “But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness and commits iniquity, and does according to all the abominations that the wicked man does, shall he live? All the righteousness which he has done shall not be remembered; because of the unfaithfulness of which he is guilty and the sin which he has committed, because of them he shall die.” The cleansing God gave was real, but it can be lost if someone deliberately goes back into sin. Jesus also said in Revelation 3:5, “He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life,” which shows that a name can indeed be blotted out if one does not remain faithful.

This does not mean God is redoing His work each time, but that His gift must be held firmly with faith and obedience. If someone truly turns back, God is merciful and will receive them again, as He promised in 1 John 1:9, “If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” Jesus also gave the parable of the lost son in Luke 15:11–24. The son was part of his father’s house but chose to leave and waste everything. He became lost and dead in his sins, yet when he came to his senses and returned in repentance, the father welcomed him with love and restored him. This shows that even when someone walks away, if they repent sincerely, God does not need to create a new salvation but gladly restores them to what was lost.

So the teaching of Scripture is simple: salvation is real, God is faithful, but we must remain in Him. If we turn away, it is not because His work failed, but because we chose to depart. And if we repent, He is ready to forgive and bring us back, just as the father ran to embrace his lost son who came home again.

Peace be with you Panda.
 
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Ronald Nolette

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just read what it says.

Who did he give the right to become children of God.

Those who recieve him.

You have God forcing people to believe in him.. this is not a good look for a God trying to prove to the universe he is a God of love
When it comes to God it doesn't matter what we think it looks like! He chooses what He does whether we think it looks good to us or not! He is God and sovereign of the universe.

But as to the passage you refer to. Once again it is a simple statement of fact! whoever does A (receives Him, gets B(become a child of God). It doesn't say who, when, where, why or how-those are found elsewhere in Scripture.