Can any of you link or share a good argument against FULL preterism?

[HealthyShape]

History only recognizes prophecies physically fulfilled! Historical record does NOT recognize SPIRITUAL fulfillment of what is written in the Word of God, especially if those recording history are in unbelief!

Historians recorded what was physically visible. We, by faith, believe also the spiritual, invisible fulfillment.

Jesus predicted when it will happen and also what signs will be seen. And there is a good/independent historical evidence that it happened.

 

[rwb]

When you can see something, it is "physical" enough. I am not sure what else you want.

Jesus predicted when it will happen and also what will happen. And there is a good/independent historical evidence that it happened.

So what??? The historical evidence is based on what others were told. Yes, Jesus did foretell ALL that would come to pass when the Son of man comes again!

 

[HealthyShape]

So what??? The historical evidence is based on what others were told. Yes, Jesus did foretell ALL that would come to pass when the Son of man comes again!

What do you mean by "so what"? Don´t you know what we are talking about? We are talking about 70AD.

 

[rwb]

Where does scripture state that 70AD Jerusalem and Roman soldiers is a judgement of God, im fully aware that reformed theology makes the claim, where is it?

Have you not read the many warnings written throughout the prophets of what would come to pass when Israel became apostate and turned away from God? Even Christ says their house would be left desolate because they would not bless He that cometh in the name of the Lord? This prophesy is both spiritually and physically fulfilled! It was physically fulfilled spiritually when they rejected Christ and hang Him on a cross. And it was fulfilled physically when the Roman Army destroyed Jerusalem, burning down the city and temple.

Luke 13:35 (KJV) Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

 

[rwb]

What do you mean by "so what"? Don´t you know what we are talking about? We are talking about 70AD.

No you're talking about 70 AD, as though you know it proves Christ returned spiritually at that time.

 

[HealthyShape]

No you're talking about 70 AD, as though you know it proves Christ returned spiritually at that time.

Why are you using words "spiritually" or "physically" like something of a key importance? Jesus did not mention any of them.

He mentioned visible signs, though. And these are recorded by independent historians.

 

[rwb]

Why are you using words "spiritually" or "physically" like something of a key importance? Jesus did not mention any of them.

He mentioned visible signs, though. And these are recorded by independent historians.

Yes, Christ says when the Son of man returns in the clouds of heaven, His coming again would be visible to ALL the tribes of earth. But you want us to believe that Christ came invisibly (spiritually?) in 70 AD??? Too bad there is not a single verse to prove your independent historians SAW what they write about.

 

[HealthyShape]

Yes, Christ says when the Son of man returns in the clouds of heaven, His coming again would be visible to ALL the tribes of earth. But you want us to believe that Christ came invisibly (spiritually?) in 70 AD??? Too bad there is not a single verse to prove your independent historians SAW what they write about.

You are either very distracted and not paying attention or you are very manipulative. I did not say "spiritually", I did not say "invisibly". I even quoted historians who recorded the visible signs.

If you stumble on the apocalyptic language of "all the tribes" or "under the whole heaven", it is the easiest thing do explain - it is not a technical, literal language. Like here:

"the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister."
Col 1:23

or here:

"but now is manifested, and by the Scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the eternal God, has been made known to all the nations"
R 16:26

 

[rwb]

You are either very distracted and not paying attention or you are very manipulative. I did not say "spiritually", I did not say "invisibly". I even quoted historians who recorded the visible signs.

How did Christ "invisibly" return in 70 AD if not Spirit? I have little interest in what unbelieving historians record, unless what is recorded can be proven through the Word of God!

If you stumble on the apocalyptic language of "all the tribes" or "under the whole heaven", it is the easiest thing do explain - it is not a technical, literal language. Like here:

"the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister."
Col 1:23

What part or creature within God's creation have not heard the gospel of the Kingdom of God and long for fulfillment of all that is written?

Is not the whole of creation, being subjected to death patiently waiting for the manifestation of the sons of God, the redemption of our body? Then the whole of creation shall be made new, as in the beginning before sin and death through sin marred for destruction and death all that was created "very good"! The curse pronounced by God when A&E disobeyed God is not limited to man, all of creation, because of sin is ordained to grow old and die.

 

[HealthyShape]

How did Christ "invisibly" return in 70 AD if not Spirit?

I give up. No point in continuing.

 

[rwb]

I give up. No point in continuing.

I concur! It's obvious FP is not biblical to anyone who studies the Bible without having been taught to embrace full preterism!

 

[Bladerunner]

The second coming of Jesus Christ, the resurrection and final judgement of all are seen in multiple places in the book of revelation, these are future events unfulfilled

You and the Christian board need to reread what I said.Read the whole context....

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I concur! It's obvious FP is not biblical to anyone who studies the Bible without having been taught to embrace full preterism!

Right. Full preterism is a joke and can't be taken seriously whatsoever.

 

[Truth7t7]

Right. Full preterism is a joke and can't be taken seriously whatsoever.

Same Applies To Reformed Theology's "Partial Preterism" That Teaches Items 1 & 2 Below Were Fulfilled In The 70AD Destruction Of Jerusalem By Roman Armies

The Events Below Are "Future" Unfulfilled

1.) Matthew 24:15 "Daniel's AOD"
2.) Matthew 24:21 "The Great Tribulation"
3.) Matthew 24:29-31 "The Second Coming"

 

[HealthyShape]

Right. Full preterism is a joke and can't be taken seriously whatsoever.

Full preterism is simply believing what the New Testament says. Without a need to create complicated systems, periods, intersections and another Jewish temple unknown to the NT writers.

 

[Davy]

I am studying preterism and while I think some of what is claimed by full preterists is true I'm not inclined to believe that all of the prophecies have been fulfilled. In other words, I'm on the proverbial fence. I appreciate any good insights that you can share. Thank you in advance!

Quit listening to seminary doctrine and study what your Bible says first.

Full Preterism holds the false belief that Lord Jesus' future 2nd coming already happened back in the days of His Apostles.

So HOW MANY Bible Scriptures exist AFTER Jesus' death and resurrection that speak of a still FUTURE 2ND COMING AT THE END OF THIS WORLD? Many... too many to list here; easier to just READ your Bible to KNOW their Full Preterism ideas are false.

Partial Preterism is almost... as bad, because it treats most of the Book of Revelation prophecies as already past history. They still hold to the Biblical prophecy about Jesus' future 2nd coming though. But once again, READ your Bible and you will know where men's doctrines stray.

 

[HealthyShape]

Full Preterism holds the false belief that Lord Jesus' future 2nd coming already happened back in the days of His Apostles.

I would be careful with this wording, because it is what Jesus and the apostles taught.

So HOW MANY Bible Scriptures exist AFTER Jesus' death and resurrection that speak of a still FUTURE 2ND COMING AT THE END OF THIS WORLD? Many... too many to list here; easier to just READ your Bible to KNOW their Full Preterism ideas are false.

Full preterism does not mean that the resurrection of Jesus was the second coming, so your reasoning does not make much sense, here.

 

[Davy]

I would be careful with this wording, because it is what Jesus and the apostles taught.

NO, they taught no such idea that Jesus' 2nd coming happened back in the days of His 12 Apostles. So I'm not the one who need worry about twisting what Jesus and His Apostles actually taught.

Full preterism does not mean that the resurrection of Jesus was the second coming, so your reasoning does not make much sense, here.

I NEVER said that Full Preterism teaches the death and resurrection of Jesus was the 2nd coming. Obviously, you don't know how to READ either.

What I DID point out was asking how many Bible Scriptures exist about Jesus' 2nd coming that were written later AFTER His death and resurrection. Apparently, you cannot tell time, because Bible Scripture about Jesus' future 2nd coming written about AFTER His death and resurrection means His future 2nd coming STILL EXISTS!

 

[HealthyShape]

NO, they taught no such idea that Jesus' 2nd coming happened back in the days of His 12 Apostles. So I'm not the one who need worry about twisting what Jesus and His Apostles actually taught.

"For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done.
Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”
Mt 16:26-27

And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.
J 14:3

Therefore you do not lack any spiritual gift as you eagerly wait for our Lord Jesus Christ to be revealed.
1 Cor 1:7

"Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come."
1 Cor. 4:5

"The time that remains is short. From now on those who have wives should live as if they do not...For this world in its present form is passing away."
1 Cor. 7:29

..the ends of the ages have come.
1Cor 10:11

The end of all things is at hand.
1 Pt 4:7

"Therefore be patient, brethren, until the coming of the Lord.
The farmer waits for the precious produce of the soil, being patient about it, until it gets the early and late rains.
You too be patient; strengthen your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is near.
Do not complain, brethren, against one another, so that you yourselves may not be judged; behold, the Judge is standing right at the door."
Jm 5:7-9

I NEVER said that Full Preterism teaches the death and resurrection of Jesus was the 2nd coming. Obviously, you don't know how to READ either.

What I DID point out was asking how many Bible Scriptures exist about Jesus' 2nd coming that were written later AFTER His death and resurrection. Apparently, you cannot tell time, because Bible Scripture about Jesus' future 2nd coming written about AFTER His death and resurrection means His future 2nd coming STILL EXISTS!

You are making no sense. Again, the second coming of Jesus was not His resurrection. Therefore, what is your point that the verses about His second coming were written after His resurrection? Maybe I cannot read, maybe you cannot WRITE.

 

[Davy]

"For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done.
Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”
Mt 16:26-27

So you're looking for an argument huh? OK.

These verses go with what Jesus said in Matt.16:28...

Mark 9:1
9 And He said unto them, "Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power."
KJV

Luke 9:27
27 But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.
KJV

Matt 12:28
28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
KJV

Did Lord Jesus cast out devils by the Spirit of God during His Ministry? Yes. Then that was an example of that "power" having come of "the kingdom of God". And His disciples saw it!

Even in Luke 17:20-21 when the blind Pharisees demanded of Jesus when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus said the kingdom of God is within you. That meant at Jesus' 1st coming His Kingdom via The Holy Spirit came then, NOT... His future LITERAL EARTHLY KINGDOM which is still FUTURE to us.

And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.
J 14:3

Above is a favorite verse quote by pre-tribbers. Jesus was pointing to The Father's 'house' with that, in which are many abodes (Greek for "mansions"). Jesus was pointing to His FUTURE MILLENNIAL TEMPLE ON EARTH written of in Ezekiel 40 thru 47. Those mansions are about the abodes of His priests in that future temple in the new Jerusalem on earth. It will include the manifesting of God's River of the Waters of Life and the Tree of Life. Pre-tribbers obviously don't study much of the Old Testament prophets, neither do Full Preterists.

Therefore you do not lack any spiritual gift as you eagerly wait for our Lord Jesus Christ to be revealed.
1 Cor 1:7

When did Apostle Paul write that? before Jesus' death and resurrection, or after? After of course. So that waiting for Lord Jesus Christ to be revealed has to mean for the future even past the time of Apostle Paul!

"Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come."
1 Cor. 4:5

Once again, Paul wrote that long after Christ's death and resurrection. It has to be applied for a time even future to Paul's day.

Same thing for the rest of your New Testament references that were written AFTER Christ's death and resurrection and point to Jesus' coming at a point future to themselves.

You are making no sense. Again, the second coming of Jesus was not His resurrection. Therefore, what is your point that the verses about His second coming were written after His resurrection? Maybe I cannot read, maybe you cannot WRITE.