Is the New World Translation a valid version of the Bible?

[MonoBiblical]

Christians don't attack the Bible like the Devil!

Define Bible.

 

[Jack]

Define Bible.

Gen - Rev : The written Word of God, that's coming to pass right under your nose!

 

[TrevorHL]

Greetings again PS95 and Greetings HealthyShape,

We spoke probably 20 years ago on carm before their new boards started.
It's a darned shame that all of those threads are gone. We really had some good deep discussions. Many of those strong Christian apologists are no longer with us.

I cannot specifically recall what we discussed. I joined Carm over 25 years ago when there was a long running thread by Elpis that eventually ran into 143 thorough meaningful posts on both sides on the subject of The Christadelphian Understanding of the Yahweh Name. He advocated for "I will be" while three Trinitarians advocated for "I AM". At the end of the discussion, two of the Trinitarians agreed with Elpis, and one of these only a few years ago confirmed to me on Carm his continued acceptance of "I will be", even though this has not meant his acceptance of the Christadelphian development of this as proof that Jesus is the Son of God, not God the Son.

Yes, I have had great difficulty posting on Carm. I have added one thread "A few thoughts on Psalm 1", but my tablet which works on this Forum gets an error message on Carm, and my computer also fails.

So yes, I know what you think and I absolutely can not agree that Jesus had no pre-existence.

Perhaps a discussion of this aspect is off topic, but a brief response to the following:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. J 1:1-3

This should reference verse 14. I believe that The Word in John 1:1 is a personification similar to the Wise Woman Wisdom in Proverbs 8. Jesus is the only begotten as narrated in Matthew 1:20-21 and Luke 1:34-35 and as such Jesus is the Son of God, not God the Son.

And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began. J 17:5

I believe that Jesus is alluding to the anticipated glory mentioned in Psalm 8:3-6. Note the Genesis creation and the New Creation context, hence Jesus speaking of "before the world began".

The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For in him all things were created. Col 1:15

Jesus is the firstborn of the New Creation, and he is also the Creator of the New Creation. Psalm 8 reveals the fact that even with the Genesis Creation, God anticipated the final outcome with Jesus as the recipient of glory and honour and his rule and dominion.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Jack]

I got banned from Carm. Someone was telling blatant lies about me and I was calling them lies. They banned me! Not the liar.

 

[MonoBiblical]

Gen - Rev : The written Word of God, that's coming to pass right under your nose!

And the autographs are nothing to you then, evidently.

 

[PS95]

Greetings again PS95 and Greetings HealthyShape,

I cannot specifically recall what we discussed. I joined Carm over 25 years ago when there was a long running thread by Elpis that eventually ran into 143 thorough meaningful posts on both sides on the subject of The Christadelphian Understanding of the Yahweh Name. He advocated for "I will be" while three Trinitarians advocated for "I AM". At the end of the discussion, two of the Trinitarians agreed with Elpis, and one of these only a few years ago confirmed to me on Carm his continued acceptance of "I will be", even though this has not meant his acceptance of the Christadelphian development of this as proof that Jesus is the Son of God, not God the Son.

Personally, I have never looked at it as, I am- that would be due to my JW upbringing. - but I fail to see how that is proof of the Christadelphian or the Jw view on anything. I come from a very different place than most Christians who were raised differently. I had to start from scratch and trusted no man to teach me, once I realized I had been deceived by the jw religion in so many ways.

Yes, I have had great difficulty posting on Carm. I have added one thread "A few thoughts on Psalm 1", but my tablet which works on this Forum gets an error message on Carm, and my computer also fails.

Perhaps a discussion of this aspect is off topic, but a brief response to the following:

This should reference verse 14. I believe that The Word in John 1:1 is a personification similar to the Wise Woman Wisdom in Proverbs 8. Jesus is the only begotten as narrated in Matthew 1:20-21 and Luke 1:34-35 and as such Jesus is the Son of God, not God the Son.

I've had issues with their site also, but I have them on here too.
Yes, I know how you see John 1 and then there is the Jw view. I can't agree with either. Prov 8 is actually pivotal to my
I am not a sticker for creeds by any means-- I see it as man's attempt to explain what they see in the scriptures. Different people have different ways of explaining the Father/Son relationship and that includes many Christians who accept a form of a trinity but not all of the creed. Too many do not seem to even understand what it actually does teach. That causes a lot of confusion because they say silly things. Most churches do not teach on it in any depth.
I do not think a creed save anyone. What matters is do we have a relationship with the Lord, are we born anew and walking in the Spirit. That, He causes a person knows deep in their heart and the Lord certainly knows His own.

I believe that Jesus is alluding to the anticipated glory mentioned in Psalm 8:3-6. Note the Genesis creation and the New Creation context, hence Jesus speaking of "before the world began".

Jesus is the firstborn of the New Creation, and he is also the Creator of the New Creation. Psalm 8 reveals the fact that even with the Genesis Creation, God anticipated the final outcome with Jesus as the recipient of glory and honour and his rule and dominion.

Ps 3 is echoed in Hebrews where Jesus is clearly show to have pre-existence. We have to agree to disagree my friend, as this will go nowhere- we are both dug in to our views.
Take good care of yourself and I was nice to connect again.

 

[Jack]

And the autographs are nothing to you then, evidently.

Wake up! The Bible is TRUTH! We are in the VERY last days.

BILLIONS of humans will burn in Hell fire who don't believe in Hell!

 

[MonoBiblical]

Wake up! The Bible is TRUTH! We are in the VERY last days.

BILLIONS of humans will burn in Hell fire who don't believe in Hell!

Jesus' has already come back. Read Revelation.

[Rev 3:11 KJV] 11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.
[Rev 22:7, 12, 20 KJV] 7 Behold, I come quickly: blessed [is] he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book. ... 12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward [is] with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. ... 20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

 

[Jack]

Jesus' has already come back. Read Revelation.

[Rev 3:11 KJV] 11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.
[Rev 22:7, 12, 20 KJV] 7 Behold, I come quickly: blessed [is] he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book. ... 12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward [is] with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. ... 20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Boy are you gonna be SURPRISED!

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

You sound like stevie!

 

[PS95]

Theologically, yes, But I am a non-donimational Bible Unitarian.

Just curious.. if theologically a Christadelphian- why are you not one?
I have always thought that it was very important to them to be a member.

 

[PS95]

Jesus' has already come back. Read Revelation.

[Rev 3:11 KJV] 11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.
[Rev 22:7, 12, 20 KJV] 7 Behold, I come quickly: blessed [is] he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book. ... 12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward [is] with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. ... 20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus

Ok well.. maybe that answered my question. Christadelphians dont teach that, or do they?

 

[PS95]

Boy are you gonna be SURPRISED!

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

You sound like stevie!

There has never been a time that I have seen when a person rejects the deity of Jesus when there isn't a trashpile of other false teachings.
THAT is when speaking to people who reject Jesus' deity- instead of arguing that with them- it's better to find out what else they believe.
That's one thing I've learned.

 

[Jack]

Jesus' has already come back. Read Revelation.

[Rev 3:11 KJV] 11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.
[Rev 22:7, 12, 20 KJV] 7 Behold, I come quickly: blessed [is] he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book. ... 12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward [is] with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. ... 20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

There has never been a time that I have seen when a person rejects the deity of Jesus when there isn't a trashpile of other false teachings.
THAT is when speaking to people who reject Jesus' deity- instead of arguing that with them- it's better to find out what else they believe.
That's one thing I've learned.

You are absolutely right! And they usually reject the EVERLASTING FIRE that Jesus clearly taught also. They are guided by Satan the ultimate HATER of God's Word the Bible.

 

[PS95]

You are absolutely right! And they usually reject the EVERLASTING FIRE that Jesus clearly taught also. They are guided by Satan the ultimate HATER of God's Word the Bible.

It's a sad state.. so many are falling away from the faith now.-

 

[Jack]

It's a sad state.. so many are falling away from the faith now.-

1 Timothy 4:1-2
1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons,
2 speaking lies in hypocrisy,

We see it all over this forum!

 

[TrevorHL]

Greetings again PS95,

I've had issues with their site also, but I have them on here too.

I appreciate your response. I came back to adjust my mention of "25 years" to 21 years. I was able to keep a copy of Elpis' thread on the Yahweh Name.

I can access this Forum's site with my old tablet, but the Forum's use of advertisements locks up my old computer and makes access to this forum almost impossible. I am writing this on my old tablet.

We have to agree to disagree my friend, as this will go nowhere- we are both dug in to our views.
Take good care of yourself and I was nice to connect again.

Yes, nice to make contact. My interest in the theme of the Yahweh Name goes back to my youth, at a Young Peoples' Study Weekend in the Southern Highlands of NSW. This has been a subject that has been of importance to me over the years, I am now 81 y.o. I left my original Sydney Ecclesia and joined a smaller Ecclesia and then moved on to a larger more mature Ecclesia in Sydney. I moved to a Regional area some 45 years ago, and had no access to my Sydney Ecclesias since then until Covid allowed access via video. I hope to listen to my Sydney Bible Class that was given last night on the subject of Exodus 3:14 and see if the 40 year old speaker maintains the standard of exposition consistent with what I was taught and delighted in.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[David Lamb]

Dunamis also means power. Thayer gives a better description, but the word is also masculine which is noun that delivers an action. The all-creating? I don't think so.

"Dunamis" does indeed mean power. It is the word we get "dynamite" and "dynamo" from. But it isn't the word that is translated as "almighty." That is "pankrator."

 

[MonoBiblical]

Just curious.. if theologically a Christadelphian- why are you not one?
I have always thought that it was very important to them to be a member.

I am a post-Millenialist. I also disagree with Christadelphian advice.

 

[MonoBiblical]

"Dunamis" does indeed mean power. It is the word we get "dynamite" and "dynamo" from. But it isn't the word that is translated as "almighty." That is "pankrator."

Yep.

 

[HealthyShape]

I believe that The Word in John 1:1 is a personification similar to the Wise Woman Wisdom in Proverbs 8.

How? John says that the Word became flesh. Personification became flesh?

Jesus is the only begotten as narrated in Matthew 1:20-21 and Luke 1:34-35 and as such Jesus is the Son of God, not God the Son.

For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son
J 3:16

God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him.
J 3:17

I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me
J 6:38

I am the living bread that came down from heaven.
J 6:51

"Very truly I tell you," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!"
J 8:58

"I came from the Father and entered the world; now I am leaving the world and going back to the Father."
John 16:28

Jesus existed before He was sent/given/descended from heaven. And, as John records in his Prologue, He was God and one with Father before that.