Spirit filled believer?

[Cross8527]

The things of the spirit are strange because it defies the flesh, I have always believed that through Christ anything is possible and many say this as well but do we truly believe it?
Do you see people performing miracles? are our prayers requests or are the assurance?
I haven't seen many miracles and I have spoken with many Christians about this but few can actually say they saw the hand of God or a miracle or divine intervention

Then there are the cessationalists who outright deny that the spiritual gifts are for today and for the most part they seem to be right because you don't see many Christians who truly walk in the spirit whose presence can be felt when entering a room or who lays on hands and heals someone.

Even prayer for that matter seems to be a I hope he answers kind of thing it is not like when Jesus prayed or when he performed miracles he was assured he was confident he made his request but even just creating all that fish and bread as he did he seemed assured he would recieve it.

There is however another side to this, there are some believers one whom I even got to be in the presence of who are full of the spirit like I mean you can feel them just by being near them there is life in them and there are some believers out there who can actually lay on hands and heal or pray and be assured they will recieve

So what makes the difference I wonder? what makes one believer spiritually rich while the rest are just kind of well not?

 

[Aunty Jane]

The things of the spirit are strange because it defies the flesh, I have always believed that through Christ anything is possible and many say this as well but do we truly believe it?
Do you see people performing miracles? are our prayers requests or are the assurance?
I haven't seen many miracles and I have spoken with many Christians about this but few can actually say they saw the hand of God or a miracle or divine intervention

How many “Christians” pray for things and get no answers at all? What are we to assume? Is God some sort of genie that promises to grant requests....but who then says “nah” sorry, not today....?
Or is he the Creator who has a purpose for everything? A purpose that is outlined in Scripture that most people never read carefully, but are content to be spoon fed by those with theological degrees.

Then there are the cessationalists who outright deny that the spiritual gifts are for today and for the most part they seem to be right because you don't see many Christians who truly walk in the spirit whose presence can be felt when entering a room or who lays on hands and heals someone.

We have all seen the showmen who make people fall down as if this was something Jesus or his apostles ever did. Being “slain in the spirit” is a charismatic practice, but not one that was ever seen in the healings that Jesus or his apostles performed. One glaring omission is that no one seems to have the power to raise the dead....yet it too was part of the miracles given by God’s spirit.
If it is the same powerful spirit that operated in the first century, why did it disappear after the apostles passed away?

Miracles were an early part of the process in becoming a Christian....to show people that God was backing his son...and these miracles were a foregleam of the world to come under the rulership of God’s Kingdom.....when sickness, suffering and death would be no more. (Rev 21:2-4)....But Paul called reliance on them ‘the traits of a spiritual baby’...he said we had to grow up and develop the more important and enduring qualities of “faith, hope and love”. (1 Cor 13:8-13)

Even prayer for that matter seems to be a I hope he answers kind of thing it is not like when Jesus prayed or when he performed miracles he was assured he was confident he made his request but even just creating all that fish and bread as he did he seemed assured he would recieve it.

Being the possesser of God’s powerful spirit at his baptism, Jesus did not have to doubt that what he said would fail somehow. The disciples were able to perform miracles in Jesus name at first, but after Christ’s death, the apostles and others were granted the power of God’s spirit to grow and increase the Christian congregations. But it was not to last because it had a purpose and that purpose was served.

There is however another side to this, there are some believers one whom I even got to be in the presence of who are full of the spirit like I mean you can feel them just by being near them there is life in them and there are some believers out there who can actually lay on hands and heal or pray and be assured they will recieve

We have to be very careful in a world ruled by God’s adversary, (1 John 5:19) who can “transform himself into an angel of light” (2 Cor 11:13-15)....he does not always present himself as evil, but as a friend and as a godly one.....it’s a pretence and a misuse of his own power.

The “laying on of hands” was done only through the apostles so when they died, the gifts died with them, and the Christians had to grow to maturity without relying on miracles, because hard times were coming. No time for remaining spiritual babies.

So what makes the difference I wonder? what makes one believer spiritually rich while the rest are just kind of well not?

Since Jesus said in John 6:44, 65.....
“No man can come to me unless the Father, who sent me, draws him, and I will resurrect him on the last day. . . . .He went on to say: “This is why I have said to you, no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”

Since no one can come to the Father except through the son....and no one can come to the son without it being granted by the Father....unless they are “drawn”.....and ‘invited’, anyone can claim to be a Christian.... but claiming to be one doesn’t automatically make you one. Jesus said we would know his true disciples by their “fruits”.....or the kind of people they prove themselves to be in a godless world.

They have to be no part of the world (John 18:36) because “friendship with the world is enmity with God” (James 4:4)
What makes the difference is who is feeding us spiritually, and what is the quality of the food we are being fed? Jesus said he would have one channel in this time of the end...”a faithful and wise slave” who was charged with feeding his fellow slaves their “food at the proper time”. (Matt 24:45)
We have to find this slave (not an individual but a composite source of truth who are all 100% scripturally based and evidentially sound in concurring with the entirety of Scripture) and we have to feed at his table.

The Bible gives us only two tables at which to feed ourselves spiritually....so “the table of demons” will have things that represent spiritual junk food...tasty and attractive, but filled with poison. (1 Cor 10:20-21)

“The table of the Lord” will have healthy food that requires chewing, and digesting......like spiritual vegetables that one needs to acquire a taste for, but the health benefits show in the way they live and act.
They will be the ones at peace in a world where it is disappearing rapidly. They will be loving one another as Jesus said this would identify them. (John 13:34-35)

 

[Cross8527]

How many “Christians” pray for things and get no answers at all? What are we to assume? Is God some sort of genie that promises to grant requests....but who then says “nah” sorry, not today....?
Or is he the Creator who has a purpose for everything? A purpose that is outlined in Scripture that most people never read carefully, but are content to be spoon fed by those with theological degrees.

We have all seen the showmen who make people fall down as if this was something Jesus or his apostles ever did. Being “slain in the spirit” is a charismatic practice, but not one that was ever seen in the healings that Jesus or his apostles performed. One glaring omission is that no one seems to have the power to raise the dead....yet it too was part of the miracles given by God’s spirit.
If it is the same powerful spirit that operated in the first century, why did it disappear after the apostles passed away?

Miracles were an early part of the process in becoming a Christian....to show people that God was backing his son...and these miracles were a foregleam of the world to come under the rulership of God’s Kingdom.....when sickness, suffering and death would be no more. (Rev 21:2-4)....But Paul called reliance on them ‘the traits of a spiritual baby’...he said we had to grow up and develop the more important and enduring qualities of “faith, hope and love”. (1 Cor 13:8-13)

Being the possesser of God’s powerful spirit at his baptism, Jesus did not have to doubt that what he said would fail somehow. The disciples were able to perform miracles in Jesus name at first, but after Christ’s death, the apostles and others were granted the power of God’s spirit to grow and increase the Christian congregations. But it was not to last because it had a purpose and that purpose was served.

We have to be very careful in a world ruled by God’s adversary, (1 John 5:19) who can “transform himself into an angel of light” (2 Cor 11:13-15)....he does not always present himself as evil, but as a friend and as a godly one.....it’s a pretence and a misuse of his own power.

The “laying on of hands” was done only through the apostles so when they died, the gifts died with them, and the Christians had to grow to maturity without relying on miracles, because hard times were coming. No time for remaining spiritual babies.

Since Jesus said in John 6:44, 65.....
“No man can come to me unless the Father, who sent me, draws him, and I will resurrect him on the last day. . . . .He went on to say: “This is why I have said to you, no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”

Since no one can come to the Father except through the son....and no one can come to the son without it being granted by the Father....unless they are “drawn”.....and ‘invited’, anyone can claim to be a Christian.... but claiming to be one doesn’t automatically make you one. Jesus said we would know his true disciples by their “fruits”.....or the kind of people they prove themselves to be in a godless world.

They have to be no part of the world (John 18:36) because “friendship with the world is enmity with God” (James 4:4)
What makes the difference is who is feeding us spiritually, and what is the quality of the food we are being fed? Jesus said he would have one channel in this time of the end...”a faithful and wise slave” who was charged with feeding his fellow slaves their “food at the proper time”. (Matt 24:45)
We have to find this slave (not an individual but a composite source of truth who are all 100% scripturally based and evidentially sound in concurring with the entirety of Scripture) and we have to feed at his table.

The Bible gives us only two tables at which to feed ourselves spiritually....so “the table of demons” will have things that represent spiritual junk food...tasty and attractive, but filled with poison. (1 Cor 10:20-21)

“The table of the Lord” will have healthy food that requires chewing, and digesting......like spiritual vegetables that one needs to acquire a taste for, but the health benefits show in the way they live and act.
They will be the ones at peace in a world where it is disappearing rapidly. They will be loving one another as Jesus said this would identify them. (John 13:34-35)

So you don't believe that the spiritual gifts are for today then? Because while rare yes I have seenmiracles happen one with healing another with speaking in tongues though that is not a miracle but yes I know there are many fakes out there and the enemy wants it that way because he does not want God's children to be properly equiped he does not want the spirit to be alive and real in the believers lives.

and there is no scripture that says the gifts have died off so I don't know where this idea that they died off came from

 

[quietthinker]

How many “Christians” pray for things and get no answers at all? What are we to assume? Is God some sort of genie that promises to grant requests....but who then says “nah” sorry, not today....?
Or is he the Creator who has a purpose for everything? A purpose that is outlined in Scripture that most people never read carefully, but are content to be spoon fed by those with theological degrees.

We have all seen the showmen who make people fall down as if this was something Jesus or his apostles ever did. Being “slain in the spirit” is a charismatic practice, but not one that was ever seen in the healings that Jesus or his apostles performed. One glaring omission is that no one seems to have the power to raise the dead....yet it too was part of the miracles given by God’s spirit.
If it is the same powerful spirit that operated in the first century, why did it disappear after the apostles passed away?

Miracles were an early part of the process in becoming a Christian....to show people that God was backing his son...and these miracles were a foregleam of the world to come under the rulership of God’s Kingdom.....when sickness, suffering and death would be no more. (Rev 21:2-4)....But Paul called reliance on them ‘the traits of a spiritual baby’...he said we had to grow up and develop the more important and enduring qualities of “faith, hope and love”. (1 Cor 13:8-13)

Being the possesser of God’s powerful spirit at his baptism, Jesus did not have to doubt that what he said would fail somehow. The disciples were able to perform miracles in Jesus name at first, but after Christ’s death, the apostles and others were granted the power of God’s spirit to grow and increase the Christian congregations. But it was not to last because it had a purpose and that purpose was served.

We have to be very careful in a world ruled by God’s adversary, (1 John 5:19) who can “transform himself into an angel of light” (2 Cor 11:13-15)....he does not always present himself as evil, but as a friend and as a godly one.....it’s a pretence and a misuse of his own power.

The “laying on of hands” was done only through the apostles so when they died, the gifts died with them, and the Christians had to grow to maturity without relying on miracles, because hard times were coming. No time for remaining spiritual babies.

Since Jesus said in John 6:44, 65.....
“No man can come to me unless the Father, who sent me, draws him, and I will resurrect him on the last day. . . . .He went on to say: “This is why I have said to you, no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”

Since no one can come to the Father except through the son....and no one can come to the son without it being granted by the Father....unless they are “drawn”.....and ‘invited’, anyone can claim to be a Christian.... but claiming to be one doesn’t automatically make you one. Jesus said we would know his true disciples by their “fruits”.....or the kind of people they prove themselves to be in a godless world.

They have to be no part of the world (John 18:36) because “friendship with the world is enmity with God” (James 4:4)
What makes the difference is who is feeding us spiritually, and what is the quality of the food we are being fed? Jesus said he would have one channel in this time of the end...”a faithful and wise slave” who was charged with feeding his fellow slaves their “food at the proper time”. (Matt 24:45)
We have to find this slave (not an individual but a composite source of truth who are all 100% scripturally based and evidentially sound in concurring with the entirety of Scripture) and we have to feed at his table.

The Bible gives us only two tables at which to feed ourselves spiritually....so “the table of demons” will have things that represent spiritual junk food...tasty and attractive, but filled with poison. (1 Cor 10:20-21)

“The table of the Lord” will have healthy food that requires chewing, and digesting......like spiritual vegetables that one needs to acquire a taste for, but the health benefits show in the way they live and act.
They will be the ones at peace in a world where it is disappearing rapidly. They will be loving one another as Jesus said this would identify them. (John 13:34-35)

You don't seem to get it AJ. The more words you make the less credibility you display!

 

[Hiddenthings]

You don't seem to get it AJ. The more words you make the less credibility you display!

Jane believes miracles ceased with the apostles, real Christians are identified by their fruits and separation from the world, and God uses one faithful channel (JW's???) to provide truth and spiritual nourishment in the last days.

 

[Azim]

The things of the spirit are strange because it defies the flesh, I have always believed that through Christ anything is possible and many say this as well but do we truly believe it?
Do you see people performing miracles? are our prayers requests or are the assurance?
I haven't seen many miracles and I have spoken with many Christians about this but few can actually say they saw the hand of God or a miracle or divine intervention

Then there are the cessationalists who outright deny that the spiritual gifts are for today and for the most part they seem to be right because you don't see many Christians who truly walk in the spirit whose presence can be felt when entering a room or who lays on hands and heals someone.

Even prayer for that matter seems to be a I hope he answers kind of thing it is not like when Jesus prayed or when he performed miracles he was assured he was confident he made his request but even just creating all that fish and bread as he did he seemed assured he would recieve it.

There is however another side to this, there are some believers one whom I even got to be in the presence of who are full of the spirit like I mean you can feel them just by being near them there is life in them and there are some believers out there who can actually lay on hands and heal or pray and be assured they will recieve

So what makes the difference I wonder? what makes one believer spiritually rich while the rest are just kind of well not?

I've been wondering about this myself, and have been observing other Christians in my life, especially at my current church. A difference in the two types of Christians you are talking about, I would compare to how far or closely they follow Jesus. Someone who wouldn't show much spirit or fruits in their life, maybe following Jesus a mile behind him, and are still too attached to this world. While someone who is more spirit filled, and shows fruits, could be walking closely behind, or even right next to Jesus.

Another thing is the church which people belong to. My last church, which I left this year, had elders who were happy with just "Sunday Christians", and did not want to open the church up during the week for bible studies, where further discipleship could take place. They were even against the current interim pastor, when I left, from having opportunities for people to come up to him, and get prayers, after the Sunday service. The church I am currently attending is the opposite, and encourage people to attend various bible studies during the week. With a group of prayer warriors also available after the service for those who need prayer.

 

[Aunty Jane]

You don't seem to get it AJ. The more words you make the less credibility you display!

Thank you for your opinion....not everyone has the attention of a goldfish....and no one is forcing you to read beyond your limited capacity.....move on...nothing to see here....

 

[quietthinker]

Thank you for your opinion....not everyone has the attention of a goldfish....and no one is forcing you to read beyond your limited capacity.....move on...nothing to see here....

That's just it. You assume volume of words underscores wisdom when in fact it reveals the desperate need to hear.
There is definitely not invitation.

 

[Aunty Jane]

So you don't believe that the spiritual gifts are for today then?

No...and for the reasons already outlined. One of the main reasons is that if God and the devil were in competition with one another in an environment where Christianity is in a hopelessly divided state, how on earth would people know who was responsible for them? In the first century there was just one Christian Faith, but now there are literally thousands of sects, all claiming to be the genuine article....the devil’s playground...

Because while rare yes I have seenmiracles happen one with healing another with speaking in tongues though that is not a miracle but yes I know there are many fakes out there and the enemy wants it that way because he does not want God's children to be properly equiped he does not want the spirit to be alive and real in the believers lives.
and there is no scripture that says the gifts have died off so I don't know where this idea that they died off came from

And there you have the very reason why the “miracles” or “speaking in tongues” was withdrawn back in the time after the apostles passed away....they are not from God...and it explains why so many walk away from healing sessions the same way as they came in.
In the first century there were no failures, so the people knew that God spirit was operating in the midst of them.
The devil can do tricks too....very convincing ones to those who are taken in by them. He has highjacked the Christian Faith and indeed had created all false religion.....a huge number of fakes. The “wheat” are in the world, but the “weeds” greatly outnumber them as Jesus said they would. (Matt 7:13-14)

So called miracles have only one source today.....because God does not need to compete with the devil.

 

[Rockerduck]

The things of the spirit are strange because it defies the flesh, I have always believed that through Christ anything is possible and many say this as well but do we truly believe it?
Do you see people performing miracles? are our prayers requests or are the assurance?
I haven't seen many miracles and I have spoken with many Christians about this but few can actually say they saw the hand of God or a miracle or divine intervention

Then there are the cessationalists who outright deny that the spiritual gifts are for today and for the most part they seem to be right because you don't see many Christians who truly walk in the spirit whose presence can be felt when entering a room or who lays on hands and heals someone.

Even prayer for that matter seems to be a I hope he answers kind of thing it is not like when Jesus prayed or when he performed miracles he was assured he was confident he made his request but even just creating all that fish and bread as he did he seemed assured he would recieve it.

There is however another side to this, there are some believers one whom I even got to be in the presence of who are full of the spirit like I mean you can feel them just by being near them there is life in them and there are some believers out there who can actually lay on hands and heal or pray and be assured they will recieve

So what makes the difference I wonder? what makes one believer spiritually rich while the rest are just kind of well not?

Look up the Higher Life Movement. Some Christians receive a 2nd blessing. This empowers the spiritual gifts and knowledge. It's like receiving a turbocharge of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Cross8527]

I've been wondering about this myself, and have been observing other Christians in my life, especially at my current church. A difference in the two types of Christians you are talking about, I would compare to how far or closely they follow Jesus. Someone who wouldn't show much spirit or fruits in their life, maybe following Jesus a mile behind him, and are still too attached to this world. While someone who is more spirit filled, and shows fruits, could be walking closely behind, or even right next to Jesus.

Another thing is the church which people belong to. My last church, which I left this year, had elders who were happy with just "Sunday Christians", and did not want to open the church up during the week for bible studies, where further discipleship could take place. They were even against the current interim pastor, when I left, from having opportunities for people to come up to him, and get prayers, after the Sunday service. The church I am currently attending is the opposite, and encourage people to attend various bible studies during the week. With a group of prayer warriors also available after the service for those who need prayer.

This makes perfect sense and I understand as I have been to churches like that.

 

[Cross8527]

No...and for the reasons already outlined. One of the main reasons is that if God and the devil were in competition with one another in an environment where Christianity is in a hopelessly divided state, how on earth would people know who was responsible for them? In the first century there was just one Christian Faith, but now there are literally thousands of sects, all claiming to be the genuine article....the devil’s playground...

And there you have the very reason why the “miracles” or “speaking in tongues” was withdrawn back in the time after the apostles passed away....they are not from God...and it explains why so many walk away from healing sessions the same way as they came in.
In the first century there were no failures, so the people knew that God spirit was operating in the midst of them.
The devil can do tricks too....very convincing ones to those who are taken in by them. He has highjacked the Christian Faith and indeed had created all false religion.....a huge number of fakes. The “wheat” are in the world, but the “weeds” greatly outnumber them as Jesus said they would. (Matt 7:13-14)

So called miracles have only one source today.....because God does not need to compete with the devil.

Your disbelief is heartbreaking, yes the enemy has done a great job at making fakes but to say that the real thing is now gone and away with you would have to deny God's power and ability.

Not to mention the scriptures do not say they have gone so what evidence is there to say they are? the fakes? this is just evidence that the enemy has his way in the world but we are not of the world

 

[Aunty Jane]

Your disbelief is heartbreaking, yes the enemy has done a great job at making fakes but to say that the real thing is now gone and away with you would have to deny God's power and ability.

Not at all.....to read about what the gifts of the spirit accomplished back in the first century is to understand the reason why they were given. It was to bring God’s people back to the faith....which was derailed due to accepting the doctrines of men, instead of God’s word, (Matt 15:7-9) but it was not going to keep them there....why? Because the gifts accomplished their purpose and showed Christ’s disciples what was to come under the rulership of his Kingdom. They had to grow to maturity on the three foundations that Paul spoke about....”faith, hope and love”...not miracles.
1 Cor 13:8-13 ESV...
“...As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away. When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways....So now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love.”

Don’t believe me...believe the apostle Paul.

Not to mention the scriptures do not say they have gone so what evidence is there to say they are? the fakes? this is just evidence that the enemy has his way in the world but we are not of the world

Do you honestly believe only what you see? Do you understand the level that satan’s deception has taken?
He has undermined the very foundations of the Christian Faith, so that what is built on them will crumble when the reality hits....and it is coming. The divided state of Christendom is proof that God’s uniting spirit is not among them, no matter how convinced they are. At the judgment they will be in for a rude shock. (Matt7:21-23)

God does not compete with the devil because the miracles were for spiritual babies who needed to see those miracles in order to believe.....we have to grow up and realize that faith does not depends on what is seen, (2 Cor 5:7) but what is implanted in the heart by God’s spirit.....no one can come to the son without it being granted by the Father. (John 6:65) So no matter what we claim, even if we are fully convinced that the miracles are real because we have seen them.....we need to know that the devil can do tricks too.
But the one thing he cannot do is raise the dead....so there is your real evidence. Let them show you a medically proven resurrection....with no medical intervention whatsoever. A person telling a corpse to get up and walk...as Jesus did. (Luke 7:11-15; 8:49-56; John 11: 38-44)

 

[Cross8527]

Not at all.....to read about what the gifts of the spirit accomplished back in the first century is to understand the reason why they were given. It was to bring God’s people back to the faith....which was derailed due to accepting the doctrines of men, instead of God’s word, (Matt 15:7-9) but it was not going to keep them there....why? Because the gifts accomplished their purpose and showed Christ’s disciples what was to come under the rulership of his Kingdom. They had to grow to maturity on the three foundations that Paul spoke about....”faith, hope and love”...not miracles.
1 Cor 13:8-13 ESV...
“...As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away. When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways....So now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love.”

Don’t believe me...believe the apostle Paul.


Do you honestly believe only what you see? Do you understand the level that satan’s deception has taken?
He has undermined the very foundations of the Christian Faith, so that what is built on them will crumble when the reality hits....and it is coming. The divided state of Christendom is proof that God’s uniting spirit is not among them, no matter how convinced they are. At the judgment they will be in for a rude shock. (Matt7:21-23)

God does not compete with the devil because the miracles were for spiritual babies who needed to see those miracles in order to believe.....we have to grow up and realize that faith does not depends on what is seen, (2 Cor 5:7) but what is implanted in the heart by God’s spirit.....no one can come to the son without it being granted by the Father. (John 6:65) So no matter what we claim, even if we are fully convinced that the miracles are real because we have seen them.....we need to know that the devil can do tricks too.
But the one thing he cannot do is raise the dead....so there is your real evidence. Let them show you a medically proven resurrection....with no medical intervention whatsoever. A person telling a corpse to get up and walk...as Jesus did. (Luke 7:11-15; 8:49-56; John 11: 38-44)

I agree that the devil has had his way within the church and no I don't believe just what I see but the word of God is the ultimate proof and again nowhere does it say that they have gone away not even with when Paul said they would pass away because the perfect he speaks of has not happened yet at least not until Christ returns.

 

[Taken]

Spirit filled believer?

Yes.

In observing confessed converted believers, each have received the Gift of the Lamb of Gods; “Spirit of Truth WITH-IN them”
AND
“one or more of the Seven Spirits of God WITH them…”

And the wondering question seems to be…
“How are some converted in Christ immediately recognized…and others not so much?”

I would say, God blesses every converted individual with the specific blessings that will prepare that individual to Best serve the Lord God, according to His desires.

Some are lifelong students of knowledge, edging on ability to have total recall of nearly the whole of Scripture, and on request share with others.

Some are excellent teachers / counselors.

Some exhibit the power to capture and hold the attention of a gathering.

Some are blessed to hold their tongue, open their ears and exhibit understanding of an others plight.

Some are full of wisdom, that a short to the point quip resonates a phenomenal impact on another.

Some without speaking reveal their enormous Respect for the Lord God.

In short; Gods prepared (converted) men, blessed in the capacity for their own most successful spiritual service unto man, which Glorifies God.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Aunty Jane]

I've been wondering about this myself, and have been observing other Christians in my life, especially at my current church. A difference in the two types of Christians you are talking about, I would compare to how far or closely they follow Jesus. Someone who wouldn't show much spirit or fruits in their life, maybe following Jesus a mile behind him, and are still too attached to this world. While someone who is more spirit filled, and shows fruits, could be walking closely behind, or even right next to Jesus.

Yes, by their fruits, Jesus said we would identify his true disciples.....
After telling his disciples about what awaited him in Jerusalem, and having to rebuke Peter for saying he did not have to do that.....
“Then Jesus told his disciples, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. For whoever would save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul? Or what shall a man give in return for his soul? For the Son of Man is going to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay each person according to what he has done.” (Matt 16:24-27 ESV)

For those who lag behind because they aren’t fully dedicated in their hearts to Christ, his words above should move them....if not then he will not recognize them as his own. (Matt 7:21-23) Becoming a Christian will cost us something....more valuable than gold to Jesus, who paid our debt to God.

Another thing is the church which people belong to. My last church, which I left this year, had elders who were happy with just "Sunday Christians", and did not want to open the church up during the week for bible studies, where further discipleship could take place. They were even against the current interim pastor, when I left, from having opportunities for people to come up to him, and get prayers, after the Sunday service. The church I am currently attending is the opposite, and encourage people to attend various bible studies during the week. With a group of prayer warriors also available after the service for those who need prayer.

Are these two churches of the same denomination? Are you seeing what Jesus saw in the Jewish religion in his day? Led by men who did not value passing their religious education onto others.....they were the shepherds who should have passed on their knowledge to their flocks...but they failed in two very important ways....they not only failed to pass the grade themselves, but actually hindered those who were taught by them...

Jesus said of them in Matt 23:13, 15...
“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because you shut up the Kingdom of the heavens before men; for you yourselves do not go in, neither do you permit those on their way in to go in. . . .Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because you travel over sea and dry land to make one proselyte, and when he becomes one, you make him a subject for Ge·henʹna twice as much so as yourselves. . . . “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because you travel over sea and dry land to make one proselyte, and when he becomes one, you make him a subject for Ge·henʹna twice as much so as yourselves.”

God hates hypocrisy.....what I saw in the churches made me seek a divorce from Christendom.

 

[Aunty Jane]

I agree that the devil has had his way within the church and no I don't believe just what I see but the word of God is the ultimate proof and again nowhere does it say that they have gone away not even with when Paul said they would pass away because the perfect he speaks of has not happened yet at least not until Christ returns.

Paul said he understood things in a less than perfect way whilst still in imperfect flesh, but when he was raised to life in heaven, then he knew that he would understand all things perfectly.
The traits of a child had to give way to the traits of an adult....not needing to see miracles in order to believe.

The gifts that God gave the first Christians did not survive the death of the apostles, whose “laying on of hands” passed the gifts on to others. They served their purpose and are no longer proof of the Holy Spirit.

Those whom Christ rejects on judgment day, will offer their excuses to their Lord....
“On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’” (Matt 7:21-23)

The things they did “in his name” were not acknowledged as coming from his Father, as he tells such ones “I never knew you”.....”never” means “not ever”. So, “powerful works” mean nothing in the modern era.
Satan is having a lend of such ones.....his “angel of light” trick.

The true faith is not demonstrated by miracles....but by the demonstration of “faith, hope and love” in all we do...in unity with fellow believers.

 

[Cross8527]

Paul said he understood things in a less than perfect way whilst still in imperfect flesh, but when he was raised to life in heaven, then he knew that he would understand all things perfectly.
The traits of a child had to give way to the traits of an adult....not needing to see miracles in order to believe.

The gifts that God gave the first Christians did not survive the death of the apostles, whose “laying on of hands” passed the gifts on to others. They served their purpose and are no longer proof of the Holy Spirit.

Those whom Christ rejects on judgment day, will offer their excuses to their Lord....
“On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’” (Matt 7:21-23)

The things they did “in his name” were not acknowledged as coming from his Father, as he tells such ones “I never knew you”.....”never” means “not ever”. So, “powerful works” mean nothing in the modern era.
Satan is having a lend of such ones.....his “angel of light” trick.

The true faith is not demonstrated by miracles....but by the demonstration of “faith, hope and love” in all we do...in unity with fellow believers.

And what evidence is there to say that the gifts died with the apostles?

 

[Azim]

Are these two churches of the same denomination? Are you seeing what Jesus saw in the Jewish religion in his day? Led by men who did not value passing their religious education onto others.....they were the shepherds who should have passed on their knowledge to their flocks...but they failed in two very important ways....they not only failed to pass the grade themselves, but actually hindered those who were taught by them...

No, the church I left belonged to the North American Baptist group of churches. The one I am currently attending is more of a Pentecostal church.

 

[ScottA]

The things of the spirit are strange because it defies the flesh, I have always believed that through Christ anything is possible and many say this as well but do we truly believe it?
Do you see people performing miracles? are our prayers requests or are the assurance?
I haven't seen many miracles and I have spoken with many Christians about this but few can actually say they saw the hand of God or a miracle or divine intervention

Then there are the cessationalists who outright deny that the spiritual gifts are for today and for the most part they seem to be right because you don't see many Christians who truly walk in the spirit whose presence can be felt when entering a room or who lays on hands and heals someone.

Even prayer for that matter seems to be a I hope he answers kind of thing it is not like when Jesus prayed or when he performed miracles he was assured he was confident he made his request but even just creating all that fish and bread as he did he seemed assured he would recieve it.

There is however another side to this, there are some believers one whom I even got to be in the presence of who are full of the spirit like I mean you can feel them just by being near them there is life in them and there are some believers out there who can actually lay on hands and heal or pray and be assured they will recieve

So what makes the difference I wonder? what makes one believer spiritually rich while the rest are just kind of well not?

It is a good question. However, the answer is not what one might expect.

The miracles of Jesus's time were amazing--what you might expect from the Son of God. Even those of the twelve apostles. Amazing!

But then again, while Jesus was performing miracles, He also said some things--one of which was "It is an evil generation that seeks a sign" (a miracle). Which was indeed strange, because He himself was providing what that evil generation was seeking. But He also explained, saying, "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father." Greater works than miracles--what? What could be greater works than the miracles Jesus did?

In going to the Father, what did Jesus say He would do? He would send another Helper, the Holy Spirit. And what did He say about spiritual activity? "The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.” In other words--those "greater works" made available by the Holy Spirit--would not be visible in this world, but at His word, would be "greater."

What does that all mean? It means--we should know better than to seek miracles like those Jesus and His twelve apostles did, and instead believe that we are able to participate in the "greater works" of Christ...without them ever being seen is this world. But is that enough, are we to be satisfied with knowing that we are doing what the world cannot see?

But there is a warning in all that--that those who chase after those lessor works and miracles, who make them their everything--have fallen short of the "greater works" promised by Christ.