Revelation 12 walk through

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Douggg

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this beast you speak of is the antichrist who apparently is dead because of a head wound that Satan brings back to life.
The beast-king person will the Antichrist person who will have been killed and brought back to life. Not brought back to life by Satan, as Satan does not have that sort of power.

In Isaiah 14:18-20, in disdain for the person, God returns the person back to life.

Isaiah 14:
19 But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet.
20 Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.

Verse 20 indicates that the person will be a Jew.
 

TribulationSigns

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It does means EXACTLY HALF.

No! ‘Midst of the week’ does not mean some precise halfway mark on a calendar. The numbers in Revelation are symbolic, not meant for stopwatch prophecy charts. The ‘1,260 days’ is not about the Church preaching for exactly 1,260 literal days—that is a gross distortion of the text. The midst can represent any point within God’s appointed time in which the true testimony is proclaimed until all of spiritual Israel is sealed. Then, and only then, is Satan loosed. Stop forcing Revelation into carnal timelines. God is speaking in spiritual symbols, not in your man-made math games.

You can't mess with my ability to measure, I trained as a machinist-mechanic. I know how to read a measuring tape, vernier calipers, etc.

And here you go... the carnal mind on full display. You honestly think the prophecies of Revelation can be unraveled with a measuring tape and calipers, as if God’s Word were a machine part to be sized up by inches and days. Ridiculous! Spiritual truth is not discovered by your toolbox of math and mechanics, but by the Spirit of God. Stop reducing Revelation to your childish number-crunching.
 

Douggg

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It does means EXACTLY HALF.

You can't mess with my ability to measure, I trained as a machinist-mechanic. I know how to read a measuring tape, vernier calipers, etc.
I am a retired engineer. So do I. I prepared project drawings and specifications. I also worked on project time lines.

The word midst in Daniel 9:27 does not mean exact middle.

Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
 

Douggg

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My post #149, and I didn't even have to use fancy pictures and sensationalism like your chart does!
You wrote:
[.................."one week" = 7 years (2520 days)---------][-Jesus comes-]
[------1260 days------][AOD][------1260 days-------][day of the Lord]
[-------------------------------------------------------][----30 days----][--45-- days]
[-------------------------------------------------------][---cleansing---][--blessing--]


You can call what you typed - a time line. But not a chart. And the second, third, fourth, lines are incorrect.
 

TribulationSigns

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I thought you did not believe in literal time frames - time-line charts ?

You are completely missing the point. The chart is not some puzzle for you to pull out your calculator and calendar and start counting days, weeks, and months like a carnal mathematician. These numbers are not given so that man can set dates as soon as your so-called antichrist signs a peace treaty, get it?! Hello?!

They are spiritual timeframes, symbolic in meaning, and their fulfillment lies in God’s perfect timing—hidden from man and revealed only in His plan.

Your obsession with turning prophecy into a calendar exercise and charts is exactly what blinds you.

The chart is simply an illustration to show the order and framework of prophecy—not a tool for you to create a literal time period with literal numbers. Stop trying to reduce the mysteries of God into fleshly calculations. You need to understand this with a spiritual mind, not a carnal..(ahem) engineering one.
 
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Douggg

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You are completely missing the point. The chart is not some puzzle for you to pull out your calculator and calendar and start counting days, weeks, and months like a carnal mathematician. These numbers are not given so that man can set dates as soon as your so-called antichrist signs a peace treaty, get it?! Hello?!

They are spiritual timeframes, symbolic in meaning, and their fulfillment lies in God’s perfect timing—hidden from man and revealed only in His plan.

Your obsession with turning prophecy into a calendar exercise and charts is exactly what blinds you.

The chart is simply an illustration to show the order and framework of prophecy—not a tool for you to create a literal time period with literal numbers. Stop trying to reduce the mysteries of God into fleshly calculations. You need to understand this with a spiritual mind, not a carnal..(ahem) engineering one.
Did you make the timeline chart or did you copy and pasted what someone else made ?
 

TribulationSigns

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Did you make the timeline chart or did you copy and pasted what someone else made ?

Why are you so fixated on who made the chart? What if it were me—then what? Does that somehow change the truth of the Scriptures I’ve already laid out? Clearly, you’re more concerned about charts than actually listening to the Word of God I presented.

I’m finished with this thread, as I have explained Revelation 12 thoroughly, and the chart only serves as a visual aid. My explanation and the chart stand as a public record for anyone God chooses to lead here. I’m finished with this thread. You guys can go ahead and dig a deeper hole of deception together.
 
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Douggg

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Why are you so fixated on who made the chart? What if it were me—then what?
The timeline chart you posted has many errors. Did you make the chart or was it made by someone else that you copied and pasted it ?
 

Douggg

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@TribulationSigns

Your timeline chart shows 3 1/2 years first half and 3 1/2 years second half to total 7 years.

You did not correctly show when the abomination of desolation is setup on your chart. The abomination of desolation should go under 1185 (i.e. 1335 days before Jesus returns at the end of the 7 years). 1260 to 1335 is 75 days not 3 1/2 years.

Below your chart, I made some corrections, regarding how the 1290 days and the 1335 days should be.

And another chart correcting all of your mistakes.

1757919959179.png

not my chart.jpg
not my chart2.jpg
 
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rwb

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(Chapter 6 - Revelation 12:16 revisit)

I believe that I already explained verse 16 eariler so we will move on to verse 17:

Rev 12:17
(17) And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Satan is enraged or wroth with the woman because she is of God. He goes to make war with the remnant of her seed. Her seed is Christ! The remnant of her seed are all those left after Satan's fall. Namely, the 1/3 who were not cut off but brought through the fire. This is the remnant Chosen by Grace. Satan makes war with those who keep God's word faithfully, and whose testimony is faithful.

Revelation chapter 11 talks about the Church that testifies the same 1260 days (the "2" Candlesticks, Olive Trees, Prophets, Witnesses) and who keep the testimony of Christ and says the is loosed and makes war with them. It's the same symbolism. The Church in the wilderness 1260 days or time, times and a half, until her testimony is finished and Satan is loosed.

NOTE: Makes war with them (scripture says) ONLY AFTER their testimony is finished, only after the 1260 days (synonymous with time, times and a half - Rev. 12:6, 14) are accomplished as in Revelation 11:7. Only then will the beast overcome the Church and "spiritually" kill the Witnesses. That is not an insignificant point!

This is the remnant of the woman's seed whom satan will war with. These are those who have the testimony of Christ. This will take place after the 1260 days (spiritually speaking). The Churches are made Apostate by the beast. It's as if the Two Witnesses (Where two are gathered together in My name, there am I in the MIDST of them; -Mat.18:20) are dead because the Word which is the Life, is no longer in the Churches. When a Church goes Apostate, Christ is taken out of the Midst, and it is as a dead church. That's what Revelation chapter 11 speaks about. The gospel truth is silenced in the Churches, and no one cares that it is no longer preached. When Revelation 11 says they rejoiced when the Lord's witnesses were killed, this is the picture in view. They rejoiced because the truth torments those who don't want to hear it. They are delighted that it's no longer in the Churches because they are deceived into thinking they are true Christians and can exchange gifts of false doctrines. The last 3 and 1/2 (time, times and a half) is what takes place after they are killed. It's the 3 and 1/2 days that they lie in the street, no one caring to bury them, signifies that when the gospel witness is silenced, no one cares that it's dead. It's what's spoken of in:

Dan 7:25-26
(25) And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
(26) But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.

Satan comes through men (aka false prophets and christs) speaking great Words against God in His Temple (Congregations). THIS is an abomination that will leave it desolate. They will wear out the Saints who are given into his hand. In other words, the false prophets and christs look like they has triumphed over faithful witnesses with lies and false doctrines. People are glad that they don't have to deal with the true Word of God in the Churches anymore. They are happy there is liberal thinking in the churches. They rejoice that those who quote Scripture are dead (symbolically) and they don't care about them. That's the symbolic language of Revelation 11 of people seeing their dead bodies three and half days and not bothering to bury them with respect. For example, when you love someone and they die, you bury them. But these don't love the truth, they don't care that it's gone. They rejoice that it's gone. This is how they are DECEIVED by the beast, but after 3 and 1/2 days, these believers rise up and come out of this Church, as the spirit of life from God enters them to move them.

The first half of the week is what is happening to the Church preaching the Gospel to the world, safe from Satan's harm, for a time, times and a half or 1260 days. They are building the Holy Temple, filling in people who have been sealed by God. We are "LIVING" stones in this Holy Temple. The last half of the week is what happens after their testimony is complete. This is when Satan is loosed and starts to overcome and eventually kill the Faithful Witnesses in the church, again, symbolically. IN other words, the truthful witnesses has been silenced.

Messiah the prince came to confirm (Strengthen) the Covenant by His Death. (Hebrews 9:15,16,17)

View attachment 69943

The overview of Revelation Chapter 12 is of the Church Israel as Christ comes and delivers her to the assault on her by satan and his minions. She is typed as a woman bringing to birth and fed in the wilderness while the time of her testimony is nigh. It starts from before the cross, illustrates the birth of her deliverer, his work, the wilderness journey, to Satan's final attempt to conquer the remnant of her seed for a short season. It's a symbolic picture of the New Covenant with Israel confirmed by Jesus Christ.

Revelation 12 has absolutely nothing to do with counting literal days, with national Israel after Christ’s ascension, with the 70 AD destruction theory, with some future antichrist, with a seven-year peace treaty, or with a so-called third temple. None of that! To twist the chapter into those man-made ideas is to completely miss the point of God’s revelation.

End of study!

@rwb

Thank You TS!
 

rwb

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Why are you so fixated on who made the chart? What if it were me—then what? Does that somehow change the truth of the Scriptures I’ve already laid out? Clearly, you’re more concerned about charts than actually listening to the Word of God I presented.

I’m finished with this thread, as I have explained Revelation 12 thoroughly, and the chart only serves as a visual aid. My explanation and the chart stand as a public record for anyone God chooses to lead here. I’m finished with this thread. You guys can go ahead and dig a deeper hole of deception together.

You may as well be speaking to the wall! I appreciate your thorough study, but dispensationalists never will!
 

TribulationSigns

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You may as well be speaking to the wall! I appreciate your thorough study, but dispensationalists never will!

Yeah I noticed that. You may have noticed how Douggg likes to defend his flawed charts and tried to modify my chart that does not make any sense because he still sees all numbers of Revelation as literal days, adding up to 7 years to build a doctrine on. He will be disappointed one day.
 

Douggg

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Yeah I noticed that. You may have noticed how Douggg likes to defend his flawed charts and tried to modify my chart that does not make any sense because he still sees all numbers of Revelation as literal days, adding up to 7 years to build a doctrine on. He will be disappointed one day.
Go back and look at your chart. Do you see that small line of litter at the bottom ? Next time you do a screen shot, make sure you don't include part of the sentence below it.

What program did you use to make your chart ?
 

TribulationSigns

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Go back and look at your chart. Do you see that small line of litter at the bottom ? Next time you do a screen shot, make sure you don't include part of the sentence below it.

What program did you use to make your chart ?

You’re grasping at childish distractions instead of dealing with the Truth. That ‘little line’ you’re mocking was simply part of the screenshot from my older post—ironically, the very sentence you didn’t want to hear. How convenient. And now you keep obsessing over what program I used to make the chart. What’s the matter—your own tools not working, or is nitpicking easier than actually listening to God’s Word?

Grow up Douggg.
 

Douggg

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Douggg likes to defend his flawed charts and tried to modify my chart that does not make any sense because he still sees all numbers of Revelation as literal days, adding up to 7 years to build a doctrine on.
You claim that the time numbers in Revelation are not literal because you don't know how things fit together.

Taking your chart and correcting all the errors, I made this chart. Beginning on day 1 and ending on day 2520 of the 7 years. Notable days as......day 1, day 1185, day 1260, day 2475, day 2520.

not my chart2.jpg
 

TribulationSigns

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You claim that the time numbers in Revelation are not literal because you don't know how things fit together.

How utterly foolish your claim is. The time numbers in Revelation are not given for carnal minds to piece together like a puzzle. These are God’s numbers, set and sealed, and only understood through spiritual discernment. It is not for us to calculate or predict, for the exact moments are already determined by God alone—such as when the last of the Elect is brought in or when Satan is loosed from the pit. Yet here you are, fumbling around with literalism, even imagining the Two Witnesses as fire-breathing men wandering the streets. Absurd. Your entire approach reveals blindness to the spiritual nature of prophecy.

Taking your chart and correcting all the errors, I made this chart. Beginning on day 1 and ending on day 2520 of the 7 years.

There you go again—clinging to your fantasy of a literal 7-year timeline, forcing the numbers of Revelation into your man-made chart. You’re not “correcting errors”; you’re multiplying them. By insisting on literal days, you’ve wandered headlong into a pool of delusion, proving only that you lack spiritual discernment.


Notable days as......day 1, day 1185, day 1260, day 2475, day 2520.

View attachment 69977

This is completely false—your whole chart is a tangled mess. Show me anywhere in Scripture where the 1,185th day magically becomes the starting point for the 1,290 AND 1,335 days, all BEFORE 1,260th day. That’s not interpretation—that’s nonsense. Your math isn’t just bad, it’s laughable. The Abomination of Desolation set up on the 1,185th day? Utter fantasy. You’ve twisted yourself into contradictions because you have no spiritual discernment whatsoever. All you’ve proven is that you don’t know what you’re talking about. And your whole MO here is to sell your false charts to make yourself relevant.
 

Douggg

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And now you keep obsessing over what program I used to make the chart. What’s the matter—your own tools not working,
I use Corel Paint Shop Pro to make my charts. I am pleased with it.

I ask you what program you use because it appears to have limitations.
 

TribulationSigns

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I use Corel Paint Shop Pro to make my charts. I am pleased with it.

I ask you what program you use because it appears to have limitations.

Ah, I see—since you couldn’t gainsay or resist the truth of my posts, or answer my question, "Show me anywhere in Scripture where the 1,185th day magically becomes the starting point for the 1,290 AND 1,335 days, all BEFORE 1,260th day?" Instead, you resorted to the desperate tactic of asking what design program I used. LOL! Truly pathetic. That’s the best you’ve got?
 

Davy

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No! ‘Midst of the week’ does not mean some precise halfway mark on a calendar.

Daniel didn't use the Gregorian calendar we use today, so that idea is definitely irrelevant.

And the source for the measure of that Hebrew word for "midst" is the actual Daniel 9:27 symbolic "one week". So what is the midst of a ONE WEEK period? Easy, 3.5 days.

Since per the Dan.9 seventy weeks prophecy is also the source of that "one week", then how many DAYS does that symbolic "one week" represent per the Dan.9 seventy weeks prophecy? Easy again, a period 7 years. And finally, what is 7 years using a days count? 2520 days. And what is the midst of 2520 days? 1260 days, exactly.


The Hebrew word for KJV "midst" in Daniel 9:27...

OT:2677

chetsiy (khay-tsee'); from OT:2673; the half or middle:

KJV - half, middle, mid [-night], midst, part, two parts.

(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006, 2010 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)