Can any of you link or share a good argument against FULL preterism?

[Truth7t7]

28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

How can you not see that REDEMPTION came at the cross? What am I missing here?

What is your logic that makes you think God’s people aren’t redeemed yet?

Do you think our redemption comes at the “second coming”?

Can you not see the future "Literal" second coming of Jesus Christ below, or do you deny this literal second coming that human eyes on this earth will witness?

Luke 21:25-28KJV
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

 

[IndianaRob]

Can you not see the future "Literal" second coming of Jesus Christ below, or do you deny this literal second coming?

Luke 21:25-28KJV
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

If you don’t think Jesus came with great power and glory at the resurrection then what was he lacking in your opinion?

What power or glory did he lack at the resurrection? He brought the kingdom of heaven to earth as he said he would, he conquered sin and death for all of us, he gave us eternal life and the right to live in the earthly kingdom until we leave this world, what is lacking that makes you think that wasn’t the second coming?

 

[Truth7t7]

If you don’t think Jesus came with great power and glory at the resurrection then what was he lacking in your opinion?

What power or glory did he lack at the resurrection? He brought the kingdom of heaven to earth as he said he would, he conquered sin and death for all of us, he gave us eternal life and the right to live in the earthly kingdom until we leave this world, what is lacking that makes you think that wasn’t the second coming?

You deny a future literal second coming of Jesus Christ in the heavens, it's that simple no further explanation needed

 

[HealthyShape]

Can you not see the future "Literal" second coming of Jesus Christ below, or do you deny this literal second coming that human eyes on this earth will witness?

Luke 21:25-28KJV
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

It is irony that you colored the part that debunks your view. In the verse 28, Jesus was talking to the people around Him, i.e. it had to happen in their life.

You also left out that the speech continues and is closed by even stronger indication:
32 “Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened."

Nothing futuristic about it for us, in 2025 AD.

 

[Truth7t7]

It is irony that you colored the part that debunks your view. In the verse 28, Jesus was talking to the people around Him, i.e. it had to happen in their life.

You also left out that the speech continues and is closed by even stronger indication:
32 “Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened."

Nothing futuristic about it for us, in 2025 AD.

No place in history have human eyes upon this earth witnessed Jesus returning in the heavens

The event seen below is "Literal" and "Future" unfulfilled

Luke 21:25-28KJV
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

 

[IndianaRob]

You deny a future literal second coming of Jesus Christ in the heavens, it's that simple no further explanation needed

Good luck explaining that one on judgement day.

 

[rwb]

Jesus was prophetically speaking to 1st century Christians as representatives of the "Future" church regarding his second coming

Jesus prophetically spoke to His first century disciples as well as every new disciple that would enter into the spiritual Kingdom of God as the Gospel of the Kingdom is faithfully proclaimed throughout the earth. His words are speaking to the Church throughout the ages of what faithful disciples of Christ must endure through great tribulation as all the forces of evil come against building the spiritual Kingdom of God.

Did the 1st century Christian church in Jerusalem lift up their heads and witness the Lords second coming "Absolutely Not"

How could they or anyone else since the Lord has not yet come again! It is only faithful disciples still physically alive at His coming that shall see Him coming in the clouds. Those who have physically died shall also know that Christ has come again as ALL that are physically dead shall be resurrected either to condemnation or glory.

The words of God below represent a "Future" Christian church in Jerusalem, that will be eyewitnesses of the signs and the Lord's second coming, simple, clear, easy to understand, if the reader isn't blinded by reformed theology's false preterist teachings in 1st century fulfillment

To literally/physically see with eyes wide open, one must be physically alive. That's why Christ does not say to His first century disciples YOU shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven. How could they since they will have long ago breathed their last. Speaking of all the tribes of the earth who shall be mourning, Christ says: "THEY (not you guys standing here) shall see (with literal eyesight) the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven". As I've already said every eye shall see Him with physical sight, including those long ago dead who pierced Him.

Revelation 1:7 (KJV) Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

Matthew 24:30 (KJV) And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

I have no idea what you mean by "reformed theology's false preterist teachings"??? I do NOT support full preterits! Since the doctrine you follow is premillennialism, you, like the pharisees of old are preoccupied with the physical. Makes one wonder whether you have any understanding of the spiritual Kingdom of God in heaven that Christ ushered in when He came to earth a man?

How long will you continue to fight against God's words of simple truth before your eyes?

How long will you continue to remain in spiritual darkness, unable to discern the Kingdom of God is spiritual, not physical? And that the Kingdom of God shall never be found physically upon THIS earth???

You quote Luke 21:27, and even highlight THEY, but you simply ignore what is plainly stated to force fit your doctrine into the Word of God.

Luke 21:27 (KJV) And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

 

[Scott Downey]

Matthew 26:63-65

New King James Version

​

63 But Jesus kept silent. And the high priest answered and said to Him, “I put You under oath by the living God: Tell us if You are the Christ, the Son of God!”
64 Jesus said to him, “It is as you said. Nevertheless, I say to you, hereafter you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven.”
65 Then the high priest tore his clothes, saying, “He has spoken blasphemy! What further need do we have of witnesses? Look, now you have heard His blasphemy!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This truly does prove that every eye shall see Him coming on the clouds of heaven, seated at the right hand of the Father, because those guys Christ talked to are dead and gone. And they did not ascend into heaven since then, as they did not believe in Christ.

They won't be coming back with Christ as all the physically dead in Christ will be, they are in hell, under the earth, in the pit of death.
So they will also look up and see Christ's return from hell itself.

Imagine that!

 

[Scott Downey]

The Comfort of Christ’s Coming​

13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen [b]asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who [c]sleep in Jesus.

15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are [d]asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The unbelieving worlds sorrows as it walks in darkness, and the light of Christ does not shine on them, nor on their hearts, or from them, they are perishing and without hope or God in the world.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ephesians 2
11 Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh—who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands— 12 that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.

14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, 15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, 16 and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. 17 And He came and preached peace to you who were afar off and to those who were near. 18 For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father.

19 Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone, 21 in whom the whole building, being fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, 22 in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

2 Corinthians 4, God however has shown His light in our hearts, and that is why we believed.

The Light of Christ’s Gospel​

1 Therefore, since we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we do not lose heart. 2 But we have renounced the hidden things of shame, not walking in craftiness nor [a]handling the word of God deceitfully, but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of God.

3 But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, 4 whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them. 5 For we do not preach ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord, and ourselves your bondservants for Jesus’ sake. 6 For it is the God who commanded light to shine out of darkness, who has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

Cast Down but Unconquered​

7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellence of the power may be of God and not of us. 8 We are hard-pressed on every side, yet not crushed; we are perplexed, but not in despair; 9 persecuted, but not forsaken; struck down, but not destroyed— 10 always carrying about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our body. 11 For we who live are always delivered to death for Jesus’ sake, that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our mortal flesh. 12 So then death is working in us, but life in you.

13 And since we have the same spirit of faith, according to what is written, “I believed and therefore I spoke,” we also believe and therefore speak, 14 knowing that He who raised up the Lord Jesus will also raise us up with Jesus, and will present us with you. 15 For all things are for your sakes, that grace, having spread through the many, may cause thanksgiving to abound to the glory of God.

Seeing the Invisible​

16 Therefore we do not lose heart. Even though our outward man is perishing, yet the inward man is being renewed day by day. 17 For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, is working for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory, 18 while we do not look at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen. For the things which are seen are temporary, but the things which are not seen are eternal.

 

[rwb]

If you don’t think Jesus came with great power and glory at the resurrection then what was he lacking in your opinion?

What power or glory did he lack at the resurrection? He brought the kingdom of heaven to earth as he said he would, he conquered sin and death for all of us, he gave us eternal life and the right to live in the earthly kingdom until we leave this world, what is lacking that makes you think that wasn’t the second coming?

Good point! The resurrection of Christ proves that not even death could prevent the Kingdom of God from being built through the power of the Gospel and Spirit. The thing that so many fail to understand is that the Kingdom of God in this age of grace is NOT a Kingdom of flesh and blood (human beings). His Kingdom NOW, that is NOT of this world is a spiritual Kingdom and is WITHIN faithful saints. We (believers) are the Church, represented by a congregational body coming together to worship Him in spirit and truth. The representation of the Kingdom of God called Church in this world has an end because among the saints on this earth there are both wheat and tares (believers & unbelievers). The spiritual Kingdom of God believers enter into, possessing eternal life, that is within us, through Christ's Spirit shall never end. Now, in this age of time, the spiritual Kingdom of God is in heaven, and when Christ comes again all who are spiritually found in the Kingdom of God in heaven shall return with Christ after this first earth passes away. The Church then in the eternal age to come shall be pure, without spot or blemish, no more evil and no more death, ready to live with Christ forever on the new earth!

Matthew 12:28 (KJV) But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.

John 3:3 (KJV) Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

John 3:5 (KJV) Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

 

[HealthyShape]

The event seen below is "Literal" and "Future" unfulfilled

Luke 21:25-28KJV
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

The text itself debunks your view, it was not meant to be about our future. It was meant to be about their future. Just read the text, who are the addressees?

 

[IndianaRob]

Good point! The resurrection of Christ proves that not even death could prevent the Kingdom of God from being built through the power of the Gospel and Spirit. The thing that so many fail to understand is that the Kingdom of God in this age of grace is NOT a Kingdom of flesh and blood (human beings). His Kingdom NOW, that is NOT of this world is a spiritual Kingdom and is WITHIN faithful saints. We (believers) are the Church, represented by a congregational body coming together to worship Him in spirit and truth. The representation of the Kingdom of God called Church in this world has an end because among the saints on this earth there are both wheat and tares (believers & unbelievers). The spiritual Kingdom of God believers enter into, possessing eternal life that is within us, through Christ's Spirit shall never end. Now, in this age of time, the spiritual Kingdom of God is in heaven, and when Christ comes again all who are spiritually found in the Kingdom of God in heaven shall return with Christ after this first earth passes away. The Church then in the eternal age to come shall be pure, without spot or blemish, no more evil and no more death, ready to live with Christ forever on the new earth!

Matthew 12:28 (KJV) But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.

John 3:3 (KJV) Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

John 3:5 (KJV) Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

I agree with most of that but why are you under the impression that grace has an expiration date?

 

[rwb]

I agree with most of that but why are you under the impression that grace has an expiration date?

Not grace, mortal flesh & blood!

 

[Scott Downey]

Matthew 26:63-65​

​

New King James Version​

​

​

63 But Jesus kept silent. And the high priest answered and said to Him, “I put You under oath by the living God: Tell us if You are the Christ, the Son of God!”
64 Jesus said to him, “It is as you said. Nevertheless, I say to you, hereafter you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven.”
65 Then the high priest tore his clothes, saying, “He has spoken blasphemy! What further need do we have of witnesses? Look, now you have heard His blasphemy!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This truly does prove that every eye shall see Him coming on the clouds of heaven, seated at the right hand of the Father, because those guys Christ talked to are dead and gone. And they did not ascend into heaven since then, as they did not believe in Christ.

They won't be coming back with Christ as all the physically dead in Christ will be, they are in hell, under the earth, in the pit of death.
So they will also look up and see Christ's return from hell itself.

Imagine that!

Another speculative possibility at His returning, He raises all the dead from Hell into bodies again, they look up and see Him coming on the clouds of heaven, and then they will be incinerated along with the world and appear at the judgment seat where He sits on His glorious throne, the holy angels and all the people of God throughout time appear there along with the wicked, all those born from the beginning to the ending of the world.

I have not given much thought as to when exactly all the dead are resurrected, all I know is it happens at the return of Christ on the Last Day.

John 11:24
Martha said to Him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.”

Someday everyone will find out as they and YOU will be there. Whose side will you be on?

 

[Scott Downey]

Definitely the destruction of them of the world is certain​

Here God compares this destruction as very complete and thorough using imagery that all people can relate to.
Prophecies of destruction often had a near term fulfillment spoken against a nation and people, but also pointed to the final judgment of destruction, meaning it has a dual purpose.

Isaiah 34​

Judgment on the Nations​

1 Come near, you nations, to hear;
And heed, you people!
Let the earth hear, and all that is in it,
The world and all things that come forth from it.

2 For the indignation of the Lord is against all nations,
And His fury against all their armies;
He has utterly destroyed them,
He has given them over to the slaughter.

3 Also their slain shall be thrown out;
Their stench shall rise from their corpses,
And the mountains shall be melted with their blood.

4 All the host of heaven shall be dissolved,
And the heavens shall be rolled up like a scroll;
All their host shall fall down
As the leaf falls from the vine,
And as fruit falling from a fig tree.

5 “For My sword shall be bathed in heaven;
Indeed it shall come down on Edom,
And on the people of My curse, for judgment.

6 The sword of the Lord is filled with blood,
It is made [a]overflowing with fatness,
With the blood of lambs and goats,
With the fat of the kidneys of rams.
For the Lord has a sacrifice in Bozrah,
And a great slaughter in the land of Edom.

7 The wild oxen shall come down with them,
And the young bulls with the mighty bulls;
Their land shall be soaked with blood,
And their dust [b]saturated with fatness.”

8 For it is the day of the Lord’s vengeance,
The year of recompense for the cause of Zion.

9 Its streams shall be turned into pitch,
And its dust into brimstone;
Its land shall become burning pitch.

10 It shall not be quenched night or day;
Its smoke shall ascend forever.
From generation to generation it shall lie waste;
No one shall pass through it forever and ever.

11 But the [c]pelican and the [d]porcupine shall possess it,
Also the owl and the raven shall dwell in it.
And He shall stretch out over it
The line of confusion and the stones of emptiness.

12 They shall call its nobles to the kingdom,
But none shall be there, and all its princes shall be nothing.

13 And thorns shall come up in its palaces,
Nettles and brambles in its fortresses;
It shall be a habitation of jackals,
A courtyard for ostriches.
14 The wild beasts of the desert shall also meet with the [e]jackals,
And the wild goat shall bleat to its companion;
Also [f]the night creature shall rest there,
And find for herself a place of rest.
15 There the arrow snake shall make her nest and lay eggs
And hatch, and gather them under her shadow;
There also shall the hawks be gathered,
Every one with her mate.
16 “Search from the book of the Lord, and read:
Not one of these shall fail;
Not one shall lack her mate.
For My mouth has commanded it, and His Spirit has gathered them.
17 He has cast the lot for them,
And His hand has divided it among them with a measuring line.
They shall possess it forever;
From generation to generation they shall dwell in it.”

 

[Scott Downey]

Another speculative possibility at His returning, He raises all the dead from Hell into bodies again, they look up and see Him coming on the clouds of heaven, and then they will be incinerated along with the world and appear at the judgment seat where He sits on His glorious throne, the holy angels and all the people of God throughout time appear there along with the wicked, all those born from the beginning to the ending of the world.

I have not given much thought as to when exactly all the dead are resurrected, all I know is it happens at the return of Christ on the Last Day.

John 11:24
Martha said to Him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.”

Someday everyone will find out as they and YOU will be there. Whose side will you be on?

The resurrected body of the wicked will be able to survive the Lake of Fire, is my thinking.
So into whatever body they are given, at the resurrection, it can be incinerated in flaming fire with the fiery destruction of the world and still be gathered by the angels for judgment before His glorious throne, and then cast into the Lake of Fire to experience everlasting burning.

This is a possibility.

 

[Scott Downey]

Examples of everlasting punishment

Rev 14
9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”

12 Here is the [g]patience of the saints; here[h] are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

13 Then I heard a voice from heaven saying [i]to me, “Write: ‘Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.’ ”

“Yes,” says the Spirit, “that they may rest from their labors, and their works follow them.”

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Matthew 25
41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’

44 “Then they also will answer [d]Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ 45 Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The Rev 14 example is for all the world as before Christ comes again, all worship the Dragon and the beast and His image, And all received his mark

Which at out time in this would be billions of people who remains unbelieving. That is a lot of people.

Luke 13, MANY people will seek to enter and not be able.

The Narrow Way​

22 And He went through the cities and villages, teaching, and journeying toward Jerusalem. 23 Then one said to Him, “Lord, are there few who are saved?”

And He said to them, 24 “Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able. 25 When once the Master of the house has risen up and shut the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock at the door, saying, ‘Lord, Lord, open for us,’ and He will answer and say to you, ‘I do not know you, where you are from,’ 26 then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets.’ 27 But He will say, ‘I tell you I do not know you, where you are from. Depart from Me, all you workers of iniquity.’ 28 There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, and yourselves thrust out. 29 They will come from the east and the west, from the north and the south, and sit down in the kingdom of God. 30 And indeed there are last who will be first, and there are first who will be last.”

 

[Truth7t7]

Jesus prophetically spoke to His first century disciples as well as every new disciple that would enter into the spiritual Kingdom of God as the Gospel of the Kingdom is faithfully proclaimed throughout the earth. His words are speaking to the Church throughout the ages of what faithful disciples of Christ must endure through great tribulation as all the forces of evil come against building the spiritual Kingdom of God.

No the Lord wasn't speaking to the church about a 2,000 year ongoing tribulation that leads up to the second coming

False reformed theology in their ongoing 2,000 year tribulation is no different than dispensationals 2,000 year gap between the 69th & 70th week same thing

The scripture is speaking to a future church in Jerusalem that will be eyewitnesses of the signs and second coming (This Generation Shall Not Pass) not 2,000 years of generations

Have men's hearts been failing, the heavens shaking for the past 2,000 years in preceding the Lord second coming "No", its going to be a specific future time in history, your bending and twisting scripture isn't invisible

How could they or anyone else since the Lord has not yet come again! It is only faithful disciples still physically alive at His coming that shall see Him coming in the clouds. Those who have physically died shall also know that Christ has come again as ALL that are physically dead shall be resurrected either to condemnation or glory.

To literally/physically see with eyes wide open, one must be physically alive. That's why Christ does not say to His first century disciples YOU shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven. How could they since they will have long ago breathed their last. Speaking of all the tribes of the earth who shall be mourning, Christ says: "THEY (not you guys standing here) shall see (with literal eyesight) the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven". As I've already said every eye shall see Him with physical sight, including those long ago dead who pierced Him.

Revelation 1:7 (KJV) Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

Matthew 24:30 (KJV) And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

No denial to the fact every eye shall see him in a future event unfulfilled, this has never been a point of debate

I have no idea what you mean by "reformed theology's false preterist teachings"??? I do NOT support full preterits!

Do you believe Daniel's AOD has taken place in history Matthew 24:15?

Since the doctrine you follow is premillennialism, you, like the pharisees of old are preoccupied with the physical.

I have posted for years before your eyes my open opposition to a future 1,000 year kingdom on this earth, Matthew chapter 24 and the timing of events have absolutely nothing to do with pre-millenialism as you bring a false accusation in diversion

Makes one wonder whether you have any understanding of the spiritual Kingdom of God in heaven that Christ ushered in when He came to earth a man?

How long will you continue to remain in spiritual darkness, unable to discern the Kingdom of God is spiritual, not physical? And that the Kingdom of God shall never be found physically upon THIS earth???

You quote Luke 21:27, and even highlight THEY, but you simply ignore what is plainly stated to force fit your doctrine into the Word of God.

Luke 21:27 (KJV) And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

I've never denied the fact that the Lord's kingdom is spiritually present upon this earth today, and I openly oppose premillennialism that teaches otherwise, just more false claims in diversion

 

[Truth7t7]

The text itself debunks your view, it was not meant to be about our future. It was meant to be about their future. Just read the text, who are the addressees?

Already answered

 

[Truth7t7]

Jesus prophetically spoke to His first century disciples as well as every new disciple that would enter into the spiritual Kingdom of God as the Gospel of the Kingdom is faithfully proclaimed throughout the earth. His words are speaking to the Church throughout the ages of what faithful disciples of Christ must endure through great tribulation as all the forces of evil come against building the spiritual Kingdom of God.



How could they or anyone else since the Lord has not yet come again! It is only faithful disciples still physically alive at His coming that shall see Him coming in the clouds. Those who have physically died shall also know that Christ has come again as ALL that are physically dead shall be resurrected either to condemnation or glory.



To literally/physically see with eyes wide open, one must be physically alive. That's why Christ does not say to His first century disciples YOU shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven. How could they since they will have long ago breathed their last. Speaking of all the tribes of the earth who shall be mourning, Christ says: "THEY (not you guys standing here) shall see (with literal eyesight) the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven". As I've already said every eye shall see Him with physical sight, including those long ago dead who pierced Him.

Revelation 1:7 (KJV) Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

Matthew 24:30 (KJV) And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

I have no idea what you mean by "reformed theology's false preterist teachings"??? I do NOT support full preterits! Since the doctrine you follow is premillennialism, you, like the pharisees of old are preoccupied with the physical. Makes one wonder whether you have any understanding of the spiritual Kingdom of God in heaven that Christ ushered in when He came to earth a man?



How long will you continue to remain in spiritual darkness, unable to discern the Kingdom of God is spiritual, not physical? And that the Kingdom of God shall never be found physically upon THIS earth???

You quote Luke 21:27, and even highlight THEY, but you simply ignore what is plainly stated to force fit your doctrine into the Word of God.

Luke 21:27 (KJV) And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

I'm trying to better understand your belief, a few questions, thanks?

1.) Do you believe (The Beast) of Revelation 13 will be a future literal human man, please explain?

2.) Do you believe the (Two Witnesses) Revelation 11 will be future prophets returned in physical bodies, please explain?