When exactly do you become a Christian?

[walter]

Jesus taught in parables so that not all would understand and come to repentance.

Those weren't extra details. My observation was the Jesus teachings in context.

And same to you and yours. :)

Please provide the scriptures that explain the details exactly what you wrote.

I don't change the meaning of Jesus words unless in another place Jesus explains some other detail, Jesus own words explain the meaning, especially when he's talking to his disciples in private, talking to his Father in prayer and when he is talking to believing followers.

 

[rockytopva]

My Christian experience is similar to GC Rankins 150 years before me... And to retell the story...

Faith in the old Methodist Way

I came to faith in the old Methodist way and exactly the way George Clark Rankin 150 years before me. I have heard the difference between the Baptist and the Methodist is that the Baptist do not believe in backsliding but the Methodist practice it. For this cause I do not recommend any...

www.christianityboard.com

In which the minister makes things easy....

"To love God and accept Jesus Christ as your Savior, turning away from all sin, and living a godly life, is the substance of true religion." - Methodist Circuit Rider of the 1800's

 

[pandaflower]

Please provide the scriptures that explain the details exactly what you wrote.

I don't change the meaning of Jesus words unless in another place Jesus explains some other detail, Jesus own words explain the meaning, especially when he's talking to his disciples in private, talking to his Father in prayer and when he is talking to believing followers.

parable
/păr′ə-bəl/

noun
A simple story illustrating a moral or religious lesson.
A comparison; a similitude; specifically, a short fictitious narrative of something which might really occur in life or nature, by means of which a moral is drawn.
"the parables of Christ"
Similar: comparisonsimilitude
A short narrative illustrating a lesson (usually religious/moral) by comparison or analogy.
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, 5th Edition • More at Wordnik


I didn't change the meaning of the words of Jesus.

Have a good one.

 

[walter]

I didn't change the meaning of the words of Jesus.

I let the Bible speak for itself #3,185 my words are of no value.

Please look at these scriptures about parables: Mark 4:11, 33, 34, Matthew 13:11

Luke 8:10
He replied, “The knowledge of the mysteries of the kingdom of God has been given to you, but to others I speak in parables, so that, ‘though seeing, they may not see; though hearing, they may not understand.’
Berean Standard Bible

If the actual words in the scriptures do not explain all the meaning we need, what does? Something that is not written in the Bible?


I don't care to have an argument back and forth endlessly, thank you for your comments.

 

[Hillsage]

How Conflict Began The Pre-Adamic Period | Sermon | Derek Prince Ministries

Watch How Conflict Began The Pre-Adamic Period, a powerful full-length sermon by Derek Prince, revealing Bible-based truth and wisdom for Christians everywhere.

www.derekprince.com

For those who never even heard of this subject, which I mentioned earlier. You might want to check his credentials. He's dead now, but I started following his teachings in the 70's.

Derek Prince Ministries USA | Ultimate Bible Teaching Collection

 

[Aunty Jane]

How Conflict Began The Pre-Adamic Period | Sermon | Derek Prince Ministries

Watch How Conflict Began The Pre-Adamic Period, a powerful full-length sermon by Derek Prince, revealing Bible-based truth and wisdom for Christians everywhere.

www.derekprince.com

For those who never even heard of this subject, which I mentioned earlier.

What “conflict” does the Bible mention in the “pre-Adamic period”? None whatsoever.

I could not open the link but I’d like to be able to read what this fellow wrote in order to refute his claims.

Since Adam and his wife are the only humans mentioned in the creation account, all that transpired in the garden of Eden was about them and how the devil tempted the woman in order to influence the man into disobedience, and in so doing, he led the entire human race away from the true God and took his place....eventually demonstrating the dire consequences of sin and death, when Cain murdered his brother in cold blood......this is the very reason why Christ came from heaven to rescue Adam’s offspring....the whole human race were born into this situation through no fault on their part.

The Genesis account tells us exactly what happened....and this was reiterated by Jesus.
When answering a question about the valid grounds for divorce, Jesus said....(quoting Gen 1:27) “Have you not read that the one who created them from the beginning made them male and female 5 and said: ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and his mother and will stick to his wife, and the two will be one flesh’?”

Gen 5:1-2...”This is the book of Adam’s history. In the day that God created Adam, he made him in the likeness of God. 2  Male and female he created them. On the day they were created, he blessed them and named them Man.”

Acts 17:26...”And he made out of one man every nation of men to dwell on the entire surface of the earth, and he decreed the appointed times and the set limits of where men would dwell.”

And since Eve had to “become the mother of everyone living”, (Gen 3:20) was God remiss in neglecting to tell Adam that there were other humans in existence before him?

This man’s teaching rewrite the whole Genesis account, undermining the entire reason why Jesus had to become a human being and sacrifice his life for ours.

Have you just blindly accepted what he taught without doing your own research? Forget what any man teaches...look at what Jesus taught. He knew the Scriptures well, and so should we.

You might want to check his credentials. He's dead now, but I started following his teachings in the 70's.

Credentials? Becoming a religious leader of a “following” is what Jesus did, but not once did his teachings argue with Scripture. He and his apostles taught from Scripture alone.
2 Tim 3:16-17 tells us that there is no greater authority for settling all matters.

Countless men and women have risen up in the post-Reformation era to lead people off after themselves (2 Pet 2:1-3).....and you can tell the frauds because they glorify their own name on everything they write.

Derek Prince glorified himself....and so do all who use his name and point to his “credentials”.....

 

[Behold]

And since Eve had to “become the mother of everyone living”, (Gen 3:20) was God remiss in neglecting to tell Adam that there were other humans in existence before him?

Not everything that God and Adam discussed is found in a Bible., exactly as all that Jesus did is not found in a Bible.

Also, notice something carefully....

Genesis 9:1........God told Noah and family to "replenish The Earth"..
Why "Repenish"?
Its because God had just destroyed all the people in the World......and they are Dead.
So, go and "replenish",= what was previously there.

Now, Look at Genesis 1:28..........God is talking to Adam and Eve....and told them to "replenish the Earth".

See, you "replenish",= what USE TO BE THERE.....previously. (You fill it back up with the SAME).

 

[Hillsage]

What “conflict” does the Bible mention in the “pre-Adamic period”? None whatsoever.

I could not open the link but I’d like to be able to read what this fellow wrote in order to refute his claims.

I am truly sorry that the link did not work. Because if it did, and you did what you just said you would do, you would not be asking the question you just did. I will try to figure out why it won't open. I entered the url from the video and the transcript. But it always copy/cut/pastes as you see it. Honestly, I didn't even watch the video, which I never knew he had preached. But I did skim through the transcript enough to appreciate what he did teach and what he did admit he felt challenged , concerning what he did not know. He demonstrated a degree of humility I've never seen on any "Christian" forum.

Since Adam and his wife are the only humans mentioned in the creation account, all that transpired in the garden of Eden was about them and how the devil tempted the woman in order to influence the man into disobedience, and in so doing, he led the entire human race away from the true God and took his place....eventually demonstrating the dire consequences of sin and death, when Cain murdered his brother in cold blood......this is the very reason why Christ came from heaven to rescue Adam’s offspring....the whole human race were born into this situation through no fault on their part.

The Genesis account tells us exactly what happened....and this was reiterated by Jesus.
When answering a question about the valid grounds for divorce, Jesus said....(quoting Gen 1:27) “Have you not read that the one who created them from the beginning made them male and female 5 and said: ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and his mother and will stick to his wife, and the two will be one flesh’?”

Gen 5:1-2...”This is the book of Adam’s history. In the day that God created Adam, he made him in the likeness of God. 2  Male and female he created them. On the day they were created, he blessed them and named them Man.”

Acts 17:26...”And he made out of one man every nation of men to dwell on the entire surface of the earth, and he decreed the appointed times and the set limits of where men would dwell.”

And since Eve had to “become the mother of everyone living”, (Gen 3:20) was God remiss in neglecting to tell Adam that there were other humans in existence before him?

This man’s teaching rewrite the whole Genesis account, undermining the entire reason why Jesus had to become a human being and sacrifice his life for ours.

You admittedly haven't even heard or read anything he said. Your quote above speaks loudly AJ. His teaching doesn't even come close to your above claim. That's my opinion

Have you just blindly accepted what he taught without doing your own research? Forget what any man teaches...look at what Jesus taught. He knew the Scriptures well, and so should we.

No, I have added my opinion which I shared and it shares the same judgment as you have already expressed. But if you watch/read Derek's sermon first, then we can discuss this further.

Credentials? Becoming a religious leader of a “following” is what Jesus did, but not once did his teachings argue with Scripture. He and his apostles taught from Scripture alone.
2 Tim 3:16-17 tells us that there is no greater authority for settling all matters.

Countless men and women have risen up in the post-Reformation era to lead people off after themselves (2 Pet 2:1-3).....and you can tell the frauds because they glorify their own name on everything they write.

Derek Prince glorified himself....and so do all who use his name and point to his “credentials”.....

Did Derek start a denomination? No, he never once even tried to become a Martin Luther, or Joseph Smith or a Charles Taze Russel. But I'm sure you don't want to throw those names under the "Christian" bus of modern denominational-ism.... do you?

I think I just figured out his international website. I needed to hit en-us which specified english and united states

Derek Prince Ministries USA | Ultimate Bible Teaching Collection

Equip and inspire your faith with a range of Bible teaching resources featuring the timeless wisdom and trusted biblical insights of Derek Prince.

www.derekprince.com

How Conflict Began The Pre-Adamic Period | Sermon | Derek Prince Ministries

Watch How Conflict Began The Pre-Adamic Period, a powerful full-length sermon by Derek Prince, revealing Bible-based truth and wisdom for Christians everywhere.

www.derekprince.com

 

[JohnDB]

At what point does infinity start?

My best guess is the moment light was created.
But I'm probably wrong....

Those of the Old Covenant, together with those from the New Covenant are the righteousness of God.

So....
I'm not really sure of the merit of the question of "when, at what point is a believer saved"

We speak about it as if it's a done deal. But our bodies have yet to die....however we believe God will do as He has promised so much so that we refer to this as past tense.

Might as well ask what the color of blue tastes like.

 

[pandaflower]

Just a note. Derek Prince,a Pentecostal, died of heart failure in Jerusalem many years ago.

https://doms2cents.com/how-derek-prince-a-renowned-bible-teacher-died-of-heart-failure-in-jerusalem/

It's curious that there are self-identified Christians who will say our church began at Pentecost and yet they're bias against Pentecostals and Pentecostalism.

No,I'm not Pentecostal.

 

[Behold]

It's curious that there are self-identified Christians who will say our church began at Pentecost and yet they're bias against Pentecostals and Pentecostalism.

Pentecost is a Jewish holiday called Shavuot (meaning "weeks" or "sevens"), which is celebrated 50 days after Passover.

"Pentecostalism" is not that.
Pentecostalism, is a specific type of domonation , that tries to manifest "Acts of the Apostles".

 

[Aunty Jane]

Not everything that God and Adam discussed is found in a Bible., exactly as all that Jesus did is not found in a Bible.

Also, notice something carefully....

Genesis 9:1........God told Noah and family to "replenish The Earth"..
Why "Repenish"?
Its because God had just destroyed all the people in the World......and they are Dead.
So, go and "replenish",= what was previously there.

Have you done a study on the word “mālā”? Apparently not, because “replenish” is so far down on its list of meanings as to be ridiculous in those verses. Look at all the meanings of this word in Hebrew....

“mālā” carries these meanings.....

1. to fill, be full
   1. (Qal)
      1. to be full
         1. fulness, abundance (participle)
         2. to be full, be accomplished, be ended
      2. to consecrate, fill the hand
   2. (Niphal)
      1. to be filled, be armed, be satisfied
      2. to be accomplished, be ended
   3. (Piel)
      1. to fill
      2. to satisfy
      3. to fulfil, accomplish, complete
      4. to confirm
   4. (Pual) to be filled
   5. (Hithpael) to mass themselves against” (Strongs)

Look at all the ways that this word is used in other Scripture......and find ones that translates it as “replenish”..... Strongs translation of “mala”......only the KJV translates it as “replenish” and only in 7 verses in the entire Bible of the same word, proving once again that you are no Bible student....and have no clue as to what you are talking about. You can’t “replenish” what was never there...

Now, Look at Genesis 1:28..........God is talking to Adam and Eve....and told them to "replenish the Earth".

Since there were no humans on earth prior to Adam and his wife, it would be pointless to even suggest that they needed to replenish what was never there in the first place. Eve had to become “the mother of everyone living”.....you guys ignore so much Scripture to promote one mistranslated verse.
This is rather pathetic....any wonder that your narrative fails to fit the entirety of Scripture, which translates itself when you know what it says.

See, you "replenish",= what USE TO BE THERE.....previously. (You fill it back up with the SAME).

Maybe it’s time for you to “SEE” what is written in the whole Bible, not just in the mistranslated verses upon which your belief system depends. If anyone undermines your interpretation of one thing, you just ignore them, knowing that your whole belief system collapses in a heap if what you want to believe is in error....

 

[Berean]

what exactly is a Christian and at what point does it start? Is it once we start following Christ instructions and lifestyle as best as possible with hope in Him, some say the baptism is mandatory....with of course His grace.

You asked, "What exactly is a Christian?" You know the majority of people in North America consider themselves Christians. Even most criminals in the U.S. prison system label themselves as "Christians." How far back can we trace the term "Christian"? It was first used in the First Century A.D., roughly five years after Pentecost. "And the disciples were called Christians first at Antioch." In the "church at Antioch," these individuals were also referred to as "disciples." Acts 11:26; 13:1, "Church" means "called out ones," while "disciple" refers to a "learner or pupil" and/or an "adherent and follower of a teacher." Thus, "Christians" are defined as those "called out" from the world to follow and learn from Jesus Christ. Can 200 million people in North America genuinely be true Christians? Jesus stated, "I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you" (John 15:19). He described his followers as a "little flock" (Luke 12:32). Jesus set very strict conditions for being a disciple.

Jesus' followers would understand and follow the truth. John 8:31,32 states, "If you continue in my word, then you are truly my disciples. And you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free." Jesus' followers would persist in his teachings, meaning they would study the Bible every day. They would gain a deep understanding of his truth that would captivate them so much that they would give up everything they possess (Luke 14:33) in terms of materialism and possessions to follow him. In Mark 8:35, Jesus said, "Whoever wants to save his life will lose it; but whoever loses his life for my sake and for the gospel will save it." This implies dedicating everything to the Lord and using it in his service as he guides us. More strict requirements for being a disciple are found in Luke 14:26: unless a person "hates" (loves less) his father, mother, wife, children, brothers, and even his own life, "he cannot be my disciple." Again in Luke 9:23: "If anyone wants to follow me, let him deny himself, take up his cross daily, and follow me."

Jesus' requirements for being a Christian are quite strict. It's not surprising that he foresaw that only a "little flock" would meet the criteria. Indeed, many will identify as Christians, just as Jesus mentioned in Matthew 7:22,23: "Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name and in thy name... done many wonderful works? And then I will profess unto them, I never knew you..." (as Christians). The demands of discipleship are indeed high. A true Christian does not primarily seek financial or health rewards. However, the spiritual rewards are immensely greater in this life and lead to eternal life (Mark 10:30). In Western society, the term "Christian" refers to a culture that most people identify with. In the Bible, "Christian" describes a way of life that is typical of a very small group. Clearly, 200 million individuals have not given up everything to follow Christ. Let me ask, have you made that sacrifice to follow Him?

 

[Hillsage]

Have you done a study on the word “mālā”? Apparently not, because “replenish” is so far down on its list of meanings as to be ridiculous in those verses. Look at all the meanings of this word in Hebrew....

“mālā” carries these meanings.....

1. to fill, be full
   1. (Qal)
      1. to be full
         1. fulness, abundance (participle)
         2. to be full, be accomplished, be ended
      2. to consecrate, fill the hand
   2. (Niphal)
      1. to be filled, be armed, be satisfied
      2. to be accomplished, be ended
   3. (Piel)
      1. to fill
      2. to satisfy
      3. to fulfil, accomplish, complete
      4. to confirm
   4. (Pual) to be filled
   5. (Hithpael) to mass themselves against” (Strongs)

Look at all the ways that this word is used in other Scripture......and find ones that translates it as “replenish”..... Strongs translation of “mala”......only the KJV translates it as “replenish” and only in 7 verses in the entire Bible of the same word, proving once again that you are no Bible student....and have no clue as to what you are talking about. You can’t “replenish” what was never there...


Since there were no humans on earth prior to Adam and his wife, it would be pointless to even suggest that they needed to replenish what was nev

If you would have pushed the next button in your BLUE LETTER BIBLE search, quote above, guess what you would have found?

You would have found which 1 of the 7 verses in the OT that THEOLOGIANS DID INTERPRET that word as "REPLENISH". And it appears to me that the THEOLOGIANS don't agree with your opinion above.

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Gen 1:28

And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish H4390 the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

[behold]

 

[Aunty Jane]

I am truly sorry that the link did not work. Because if it did, and you did what you just said you would do, you would not be asking the question you just did.

As a seasoned Bible student, I seriously doubt that anything Derek Prince has to say will alter my view of the Bible in any way. I accept what Scripture says, and reject the opinions of anyone who wants to alter the narrative. Let the Bible interpret itself.

I will try to figure out why it won't open. I entered the url from the video and the transcript. But it always copy/cut/pastes as you see it. Honestly, I didn't even watch the video, which I never knew he had preached. But I did skim through the transcript enough to appreciate what he did teach and what he did admit he felt challenged , concerning what he did not know. He demonstrated a degree of humility I've never seen on any "Christian" forum.

You didn’t watch the video or read the transcript, but “skimmed” through it...? And you are a serious Bible student? His humility won you over because even though he wasn’t sure of what he taught, you believe him because he was humble...?

You admittedly haven't even heard or read anything he said. Your quote above speaks loudly AJ. His teaching doesn't even come close to your above claim. That's my opinion

The Scriptures speak louder than Derek Prince or anyone else. What did those Scriptures tell you ?
Your failure to address them speaks volumes.

No, I have added my opinion which I shared and it shares the same judgment as you have already expressed. But if you watch/read Derek's sermon first, then we can discuss this further.

I would like to read it for myself.

Did Derek start a denomination?

Yes...he did....why is it called Derek Prince Ministries? Whose name is identified with the teachings?

I think I just figured out his international website. I needed to hit en-us which specified english and united states

I am using an older device so will try reading it on a newer one.....I’ll let you know...

 

[Aunty Jane]

I am using an older device so will try reading it on a newer one.....I’ll let you know...

@Hillsage …..I managed to open Prince’s “Pre- Adamic” study on my newer iPad….and I have to say after reading it, that it is the greatest load of garbage I have ever read. It is a complete rewriting of the Genesis account…..it seems as if he is insinuating that the reason why the earth was “without form and void” in Genesis 1:2, was because God had wiped out another civilization of rebellious humans before Adam was created. Do you believe this?

You think God allowed the first one to fail, and then did it again, only to have it fail a second time????

There were no pre-Adamic humans….and no amount of musing or redefining words will make it fit with the Bible’s overall narrative. There is no indication of any humans being created before Adam.

We saw with the flood, that God caused a reset because of demonic interference, leading to an excess of wickedness way too soon…..but he kept his purpose on track by doing what he did.….and gave us an example of things to come in the process. (Matt 24:37-39) Nothing happens for no good reason…..and if there was a good reason for a pre-Adamic civilization, we would know about it and have something to learn from it.
The whole scenario make no sense.

 

[Behold]

Have you done a study on the word “mālā”? Apparently not, because “replenish” is so far down on its list of meanings as to be ridiculous in those verses. Look at all the meanings of this word in Hebrew....

I dont try to use commentaries or word studies to correct the Bible, as thats a fool's rabbit trail they play with themselves.

So, "Repenish the earth" means what it says........and you find it in Gen 1 and Gen 9.

 

[Hillsage]

As a seasoned Bible student, I seriously doubt that anything Derek Prince has to say will alter my view of the Bible in any way. I accept what Scripture says, and reject the opinions of anyone who wants to alter the narrative. Let the Bible interpret itself.

You said; "Let the Bible", singular, interpret itself??? Which ONE AJ? There are 300 different bibles out there, all interpreted differently. And some of them say replenish, but you can't accept 'that bible'. But then you admit ignorance of the Pre Adamic race of degreed theologians. But then you have a 1,000 different interpretations of the NT. I'm a 'seasoned' bible student too. But, I try to not worship the bibles written by indoctrinated men.

But, I'm still cooking and my theology 'seasoning' has changed more in this last year than it has for a long time. Mainly because I began study a lot more documented early church history as well as holy spirit led seeking of truth, presently. IN MY OPINION

You didn’t watch the video or read the transcript, but “skimmed” through it...? And you are a serious Bible student? His humility won you over because even though he wasn’t sure of what he taught, you believe him because he was humble...?

Derek isn't 'the bible'. But he passed my trust test long ago. Yes, humility test was passed long time ago. And it showed up, even in my skimming.

I would like to read it for myself.

Yes...he did....why is it called Derek Prince Ministries? Whose name is identified with the teachings?

Whose name is identified with yours? Where do you go? I'd like to hear you make that confession.

 

[Aunty Jane]

You said; "Let the Bible", singular, interpret itself??? Which ONE AJ? There are 300 different bibles out there, all interpreted differently. And some of them say replenish, but you can't accept 'that bible'. But then you admit ignorance of the Pre Adamic race of degreed theologians. But then you have a 1,000 different interpretations of the NT. I'm a 'seasoned' bible student too. But, I try to not worship the bibles written by indoctrinated men.

So in his strength and wisdom, you think that God has allowed men to corrupt his word?
No matter what Bible you use, a good Concordance and an interlinear translation can be of great assistance in getting the truth from ANY Bible. This is why it’s called Bible “study”. It requires more than just reading what it says at face value.....that is what has produced so many denominations....”I think” is not the same as “God’s word says”......when you “know the truth”, it “sets you free” as Jesus said.....and there is only one truth.

But, I'm still cooking and my theology 'seasoning' has changed more in this last year than it has for a long time. Mainly because I began study a lot more documented early church history as well as holy spirit led seeking of truth, presently. IN MY OPINION

“Still cooking” is a man unconvinced. (James 1:5-8)
Conviction comes from study and the more you study the words used in Scripture as they were understood in their original languages, the better your understanding becomes. It also requires that we ditch all of Christendom’s foundational doctrines, and start from scratch with what the Bible actually teaches rather than what “degreed theologians” suggest that it teaches.

Why did Jesus choose uneducated men to be his apostles? He knew that the educated ones would be his worst enemies. Look at Paul...what did Jesus need to do to him to bring him down to earth as a humble disciple, rather than an angry educated Pharisee? Did God change, or did the humans need to do that?

Derek isn't 'the bible'. But he passed my trust test long ago. Yes, humility test was passed long time ago. And it showed up, even in my skimming.

Humility is a good trait, but in error humility has no value. Truth is all that matters.

Whose name is identified with yours? Where do you go? I'd like to hear you make that confession.

In case you hadn’t noticed...we are called “Jehovah’s Witnesses”.....like Jesus, who was Jehovah’s greatest witness. (Rev 3:14)
We study the Bible at every meeting and our brotherhood is global with no dissenters or those who want to create divisions. We all subscribe to the same truth, because there is only one. (1 Cor 1:10)

We are preachers of one gospel (good news) which is offered, but not forced on anyone because we see ourselves as “planters and waterers” of truth.....but it is “God who makes it grow”......and we are growing rapidly as “the end” approaches. (Matt 24:14) People who are lost in Christendom are searching for the God they know exists, but who does not appear to be present in that mess of confusion. They all disagree on so many things, but claim Jesus as their “Lord”. Their disunity is the proof that God is not among them. His spirit unites his people...it does not divide them.

 

[Behold]

a good Concordance and an interlinear translation can be of great assistance in getting the truth from ANY Bible.

It didnt help you.

See, you are under the grand delusion that if you study using your logic and your thinking ability, then you can understand the Bible.
This is why you are obsessed with "suppliments"..... as you keep trying to get bible knowledge, outside of the bible, because you can't get any from it. @Aunty Jane
You are not a bible believer.......you are a JW cult member, who twists the bible into your cult's theology.