Bible Study: The Gospel is in the Torah

[Episkopos]

As i said "ZION" is not in the NT.
Its only in your Legalism theology. @Episkopos

And if you can comprehend this.?????????? ......you notice your "Paul's verse" says its FREE.

"FREE"

Whereas = Your false theology says you have to work good works, and do righteousness to achieve it.

Remember?

See, you dont even realize your own posted verse, accuse you of false theology.

Just ask Paul....

LOL. You will say anything to escape reason...a real joke. The free is FREEDOM...not having no cost like your false gospel. Zion is FREE from sin. In Him is no sin. Entering the kingdom costs you ALL. Being born again costs nothing.

Your quest for freebies misses the truth of a liberty from sin by being in Christ and to be where He is in Zion.

 

[Episkopos]

Anyone who watched the Matrix movies, probably has a better understanding of Zion, as fans, then those who post against you. (I say this as a joke, but also as a truth in ways).

Any non-believer is miles ahead of head cases like @Behold and others here. At least many non-believers still have some honesty and sense.

 

[Behold]

Hebrews 12:22 ... you have come to Mount Zion...

OOPS!

LOL I'm sure you'll scramble this one up, too. Just wait. Let's see the justification of the unjustifiable ignorance he comes up with.

Yes i know the verse.
Its a vision from JOHN.
Its not Paul's verse.

Epikopos stated that all of this was "Paul's".
I asked him to post that...and it can't be posted, becasue its not Paul's.
You might want to remind him of that, as He's confused, among other things.

 

[Behold]

. Zion is FREE from sin. In Him is no sin.

'"""Zion is the mother of us all"""".,

""""to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the Judge of all, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect"".

Now, ive posted the verses for you, Paul didnt write them, as you falsely reported.... and what ive asked you to do, is explain how you are born again, and why.

Still waiting for you to explain it.

 

[GracePeace]

LOL. You will say anything to escape reason...a real joke. The free is FREEDOM...not having no cost like your false gospel. Zion is FREE from sin. In Him is no sin.

Your quest for freebies misses the truth of a liberty from sin by being in Christ and to be where He is in Zion.

See, I partially agree with you, but I also partially agree with the other side (ie, so-called "positional" truth), because God set me free from slavery to porn over 12 years ago by faith alone, and I assume it works for all of life (though I admit I'm not sure how). In other words, yes, we have a "positional" reality, yet, also, yes, if we have faith in that "positional" reality, it is supposed to bear fruit, overcome the world and all that is of the world. What interest would God have in saving people from sin who still live in sin? How does that glorify God? On the contrary, "that men may see your good works and glorify your Father in Heaven".

 

[GracePeace]

Yes i know the verse.
Its a vision from JOHN.
Its not Paul's verse.

Epikopos stated that all of this was "Paul's".
I asked him to post that...and it can't be posted, becasue its not Paul's.
You might want to remind him of that, as He's confused, among other things.

Authorship of Hebrews is contended, with some attributing it to Paul, but no one attributes it to John.

 

[Behold]

What interest would God have in saving people from sin who still live in sin?

"Live in sin" is a perspective.

A lot of people have the perspective that if they are not downloading porn, or stealing from a bank, or committing incest or committing their idea of a BIG SIN, then they must be no longer living in it.
And then they Binge on Netflix, and spend their money on anything and everything but God's work, or they post lies about the Jewish State's leadership.....like you did.. and can't realize they are living carnally.

 

[Episkopos]

See, I partially agree with you, but I also partially agree with the other side (ie, so-called "positional" truth), because God set me free from slavery to porn over 12 years ago by faith alone, and I assume it works for all of life (though I admit I'm not sure how). In other words, yes, we have a "positional" reality, yet, also, yes, if we have faith in that "positional" reality, it is supposed to bear fruit, overcome the world and all that is of the world. What interest would God have in saving people from sin who still live in sin? How does that glorify God? On the contrary, "that men may see your good works and glorify your Father in Heaven".

How many Jewish rabbis do you think are addicted to porn? Maybe a few. But your own depravity doesn't take divine intervention to stop. Stop exaggerating your claim. Just become as you are supposed to be in obedience...just be at least like a Jewish rabbi who is not a believer. and leave it at that. Holiness is not a freedom from a particular sin...it is freedom from ALL sin...in thought or deed.

 

[shepherdsword]

See, I partially agree with you, but I also partially agree with the other side (ie, so-called "positional" truth), because God set me free from slavery to porn over 12 years ago by faith alone, and I assume it works for all of life (though I admit I'm not sure how). In other words, yes, we have a "positional" reality, yet, also, yes, if we have faith in that "positional" reality, it is supposed to bear fruit, overcome the world and all that is of the world. What interest would God have in saving people from sin who still live in sin? How does that glorify God? On the contrary, "that men may see your good works and glorify your Father in Heaven".

I think there is some truth to a positional aspect by which God views us. An example in the OT can be found here:

Surely there is no enchantment against Jacob

 

[GracePeace]

"Live in sin" is a perspective.

A lot of people have the perspective that if they are not downloading porn, or stealing from a bank, or committing incest or committing their idea of a BIG SIN, then they must be no longer living in it.
And then they Binge on Netflix, and spend their money on anything and everything but God's work, or they post lies about the Jewish State's leadership.....like you did.. and can't realize they are living carnally.

I definitely won't be worshipping the State of Israel like you do.

 

[GracePeace]

I think there is some truth to a positional aspect by which God views us. An example in the OT can be found here:

Surely there is no enchantment against Jacob

Yeah, I saw that--but the difference, I think, is that some people think it doesn't matter if believing in a positional blessing bears fruit or not. I think it does matter. If you believe, you ought to overcome. The intent is that there be a transformation.

 

[Episkopos]

I think there is some truth to a positional aspect by which God views us. An example in the OT can be found here:

Surely there is no enchantment against Jacob

God's position is that we obey His commandments...at least physically...for righteousness...or FULLY, by walking in the Spirit.

I see "positional theology" as a human means of explaining away or "spiritualizing" what they can't understand.

 

[GracePeace]

How many Jewish rabbis do you think are addicted to porn? Maybe a few. But your own depravity doesn't take divine intervention to stop. Stop exaggerating your claim. Just become as you are supposed to be in obedience...just be at least like a Jewish rabbi who is not a believer. and leave it at that. Holiness is not a freedom from a particular sin...it is freedom from ALL sin...in thought or deed.

I'm sorry, but there are programs out there to help religious Jews stop watching porn, because IT IS A PROBLEM FOR THEM.

I agree with your perspective on holiness--I'm just saying I'm glad to be free, as the thought never even crosses my mind to even watch the filth, and that was by faith alone that I was set free/had the strength.

 

[Behold]

Authorship of Hebrews is contended, with some attributing it to Paul, but no one attributes it to John.

The reason i "attribute it" to John, is because John, Peter, and James, went to the Jews, and Paul to the gentiles.

Hebrews is not written to the Church as you find with most epistles that are dictated to "the CHURCH At".........Hebrews is written to the Hebrews... = Jews.

John's theology, is very similar to Paul's........in that He understands the Cross of Christ in way that is unique to Paul's vision and "shed blood" theology.
So, When you get into Hebrews 9 and beyond you start reading about the BLOOD covenant.......and that is Paul's doctrine, as Paul is always talking about being "blood bought"..
I can't prove John had a hand in writing Hebrews, but, as i said, John went to the JEWS.......His message is very Jewish..... as are James's epistles.

 

[GracePeace]

The reason i "attribute it" to John, is because John, Peter, and James, went to the Jews, and Paul to the gentiles.

Hebrews is not written to the Church.......its written to the Hebrews... = Jews.

John's theology, is very similar to Paul's........in that He understands the Cross of Christ in way that is unique to Paul's vision and "shed blood" theology.
So, When you get into Hebrews 9 and beyond you start reading about the BLOOD covenant.......and that is Paul's doctrine, as Paul is always talking about being "blood bought"..

Right, well, your view is absent in the historical record--I'm sure people would've been happy to have attributed it to John--and the writing style doesn't resemble that of John whatsoever.

Anyway.

 

[GracePeace]

@Episkopos

I'm sorry, but there are programs out there to help religious Jews stop watching porn, because IT IS A PROBLEM FOR THEM.

I agree with your perspective on holiness--I'm just saying I'm glad to be free, as the thought never even crosses my mind to even watch the filth, and that was by faith alone that I was set free/had the strength.

It is the HEART that is conquered by sin, the desires, so it makes sense that only the heart needs salvation from sin in order for the entire life to be transformed. When you have faith, and the heart gains the victory over the darkness, then you are freed from those chains to walk in freedom, with no struggle. Flawless victory. Because the HEART is freed by grace through faith. But it must bear fruit. None of this "I live in sin but I'm positionally righteous" nonsense--people who walk after the flesh, not in faith, will die, and yet it costs nothing (no works) to RECEIVE the gift WHEREBY they may walk in the light.

 

[Behold]

. Entering the kingdom costs you ALL.

Your false "head case" theology, states that you becoming a Christian, "costs you all" = to BECOME ONE.
But that is a false Gospel, that is stating that God saves only those who commit to the cost of everything .

Whereas the True Gospel, (Paul's) teaches that Salvation is a Gift,......that is not earned, .. its received because its based on God's GRACE.

 

[GracePeace]

I think there is some truth to a positional aspect by which God views us. An example in the OT can be found here:

Surely there is no enchantment against Jacob

The Torah had various types of commands, and some of them were to REMEMBER WHAT GOD DID--so, also, I think "remembering what God did" is what Paul says "God forbid that I would boast in anything but the Cross whereby I was crucified to the world and the world to me", and how he emphasizes "accounting yourself" this way and that BECAUSE OF CHRIST. There really is something to it--as I was nightly terrorized by terrifying satanic visitations until I stopped judging myself by my works and just believed that I was already saved by Christ (not that I'm even close to perfect in belief).

 

[Behold]

Right, well, your view is absent in the historical record--

All "NT" scholarship is the "Historical Record", and much of it does not agree with itself.

MaryCult pretends to the only Church History, including the Doctrine, and Yet it is not built on Paul's doctrine that is THE Doctrine for the Church,
So, all this depends on who you are wanting to believe, is where you end up.

I'm sure people would've been happy to have attributed it to John--and the writing style doesn't resemble that of John whatsoever.

HEBREWS resembles Paul., most of all., and its written toward the end of Paul's ministry.
However its also well within the time frame of John......

John's style is to refer to the Christians as "little children" but he didnt always use this "style".
Paul's letters, are much more the same "style" so, its easier to realize his Teaching.

Now, i do also teach that Paul wrote Hebrews.
I'll show you why.

If you read the Acts of the Apostles'......... look at (KJV) Chapter 28:28.

We see Paul being annoyed with JEWS, (Hebrews) who keep rejecting their Messiah.and he tells them, "im taking the gospel to the gentiles, as they will believe it".

Now, compare this to HEBREWS 10:26......and we see that they are "mirrors"..
Its the apostle being very upset with JEWS, who wont receive Christ as their Messiah.
This is ACTs 28:28, and that is PAUL.

So, that is why i also teach that Paul wrote them both., and the student can just keep all that in their notes and head, and think about it.

 

[GracePeace]

All "NT" scholarship is the "Historical Record", and much of it does not agree with itself.

MaryCult pretends to the only Church History, including the Doctrine, and Yet it is not built on Paul's doctrine that is THE Doctrine for the Church,
So, all this depends on who you are wanting to believe, is where you end up.



HEBREWS resembles Paul., most of all., and its written toward the end of Paul's ministry.
However its also well within the time frame of John......

John's style is to refer to the Christians as "little children" but he didnt always use this "style".
Paul's letters, are much more the same "style" so, its easier to realize his Teaching.

Now, i do also teach that Paul wrote Hebrews.
I'll show you why.

If you read the Acts of the Apostles'......... look at (KJV) Chapter 28:28.

We see Paul being annoyed with JEWS, (Hebrews) who keep rejecting their Messiah.and he tells them, "im taking the gospel to the gentiles, as they will believe it".

Now, compare this to HEBREWS 10:26......and we see that they are "mirrors"..
Its the apostle being very upset with JEWS, who wont receive Christ as their Messiah.
This is ACTs 28:28, and that is PAUL.

So, that is why i also teach that Paul wrote them both.

I'm just saying that John's writing has unfathomable depths, continuously enfolding, and building on itself, and reiterating, adding to itself, on unfathomable levels, by God's grace and for His glory, but Hebrews doesn't have that quality IMO.