Amil interpretation of 2 Peter 3:10-12 vs Genesis 9:15

[Davidpt]

Let me be clear here. By Amil I'm not meaning every single Amil. I'm only meaning Amils falsely teaching these things, that God is literally going to engulf the entire planet in fire the same same way He literally engulfed the entire planet in water during Noah's flood.

I fully agree with Amil about the timing of 2 Peter 3:10-12 regardless that I'm Premil . I disagree with certain Amils that the entire planet is going to be literally engulfed in flames, therefore, burning to death infants, children, adults, the entire animal kingdom, etc.

And no, I'm not interested in hearing these Amils possibly argue that He is going to spare infants and children though, when these Amils know good and well He never spared them during Noah's flood. And since it is absurd that He would burn to death infants and children to begin with, let alone the entire animal kingdom, this tells any reasonable person He's not going to literally set the entire planet on fire to begin with.

Genesis 9:13 I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth.
14 And it shall come to pass, when I bring a cloud over the earth, that the bow shall be seen in the cloud:
15 And I will remember my covenant, which is between me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh.
16 And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth.
17 And God said unto Noah, This is the token of the covenant, which I have established between me and all flesh that is upon the earth.

Unlike certain Amils in this case, I believe what God said here. I do not think God is a liar here, but apparently they do.

If God plainly said that He is never going to do this ever again--- and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh. We are to believe He has found a loophole, that He is going to do something a million times more profound, burn all flesh to death this time around?

Picture being on a small ship at sea that has caught on fire and that there is no way to put it out, that it is raging fiercer by the minute. What fate do you assume one might choose per that scenario? Staying aboard the ship risking being burned to death eventually? Or jumping overboard risking being drowned to death eventually?

Surely these Amils have heard of cases where people were trapped in buildings numerous stories up that have caught on fire. And that some of them literally jumped out of windows to their death below rather than choosing to be burned to death instead. Clearly, being burned to death is one of the most cruelest ways to die, otherwise, why would anyone jump out of a window to their death below instead of being burned to death? They are going to die either way, regardless.

These Amils seriously need to repent of not believing God when He said what He said in verse 15 above, just so that they can make their Amil view supposedly work. No habitable planet = no millennium can follow, right? Yet, once again, if He's never going to do that ever again, He certainly isn't going to do something a million times more profound instead.

In my case, Premil has nothing to do with why I initially reject the Amil literal interpretation of 2 Peter 3:10-12. I reject it because I have better common sense than these certain Amils do in this case, since I know full well, if God is never going to bring a flood upon the earth to destroy all flesh, He certainly isn't going to do something even more profound, burn all flesh to death via the entire planet being literally engulfed in flames the way the entire planet was literally engulfed in water during Noah's day.

 

[Truth7t7]

I disagree with certain Amils that the entire planet is going to be literally engulfed in flames, therefore, burning to death infants, children, adults, the entire animal kingdom, etc.

Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving This Existing Earth By Fire, Immediately After The Tribulation

This Existing Heaven And Earth Will Be (Replaced) By The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, A New Creation, At The Return Of Jesus Christ

(Behold, I Make All Things New)

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Psalm 46:6KJV
6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.

Psalm 50:3KJV
3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.

Psalm 97:5KJV
5 The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.

Isaiah 66:15KJV
15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

Zechariah 14:12KJV
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Nahum 1:5-6KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.
6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.

Revelation 20:9KJV
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

 

[grafted branch]

Let me be clear here. By Amil I'm not meaning every single Amil. I'm only meaning Amils falsely teaching these things, that God is literally going to engulf the entire planet in fire the same same way He literally engulfed the entire planet in water during Noah's flood.

I fully agree with Amil about the timing of 2 Peter 3:10-12 regardless that I'm Premil . I disagree with certain Amils that the entire planet is going to be literally engulfed in flames, therefore, burning to death infants, children, adults, the entire animal kingdom, etc.

And no, I'm not interested in hearing these Amils possibly argue that He is going to spare infants and children though, when these Amils know good and well He never spared them during Noah's flood. And since it is absurd that He would burn to death infants and children to begin with, let alone the entire animal kingdom, this tells any reasonable person He's not going to literally set the entire planet on fire to begin with.

Genesis 9:13 I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth.
14 And it shall come to pass, when I bring a cloud over the earth, that the bow shall be seen in the cloud:
15 And I will remember my covenant, which is between me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh.
16 And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth.
17 And God said unto Noah, This is the token of the covenant, which I have established between me and all flesh that is upon the earth.

Unlike certain Amils in this case, I believe what God said here. I do not think God is a liar here, but apparently they do.

If God plainly said that He is never going to do this ever again--- and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh. We are to believe He has found a loophole, that He is going to do something a million times more profound, burn all flesh to death this time around?

Picture being on a small ship at sea that has caught on fire and that there is no way to put it out, that it is raging fiercer by the minute. What fate do you assume one might choose per that scenario? Staying aboard the ship risking being burned to death eventually? Or jumping overboard risking being drowned to death eventually?

Surely these Amils have heard of cases where people were trapped in buildings numerous stories up that have caught on fire. And that some of them literally jumped out of windows to their death below rather than choosing to be burned to death instead. Clearly, being burned to death is one of the most cruelest ways to die, otherwise, why would anyone jump out of a window to their death below instead of being burned to death? They are going to die either way, regardless.

These Amils seriously need to repent of not believing God when He said what He said in verse 15 above, just so that they can make their Amil view supposedly work. No inhabitable planet = no millennium can follow, right? Yet, once again, if He's never going to do that ever again, He certainly isn't going to do something a million times more profound instead.

In my case, Premil has nothing to do with why I initially reject the Amil literal interpretation of 2 Peter 3:10-12. I reject it because I have better common sense than these certain Amils do in this case, since I know full well, if God is never going to bring a flood upon the earth to destroy all flesh, He certainly isn't going to do something even more profound, burn all flesh to death via the entire planet being literally engulfed in flames the way the entire planet was literally engulfed in water during Noah's day.

Have you looked at the Biblical case for a local flood instead of a global flood? Perhaps a local flood means a local 2 Peter 3:10-12 event which might work with your view of the millennium, I don’t know. There are some good arguments for a local flood.

For example, kol eretz and ha eretz (translated as whole earth, the earth) have a much more localized and grounded meaning in Hebrew. I could go further on this but I don’t want to derail your thread into something that you didn’t intend.

 

[Davidpt]

Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving This Existing Earth By Fire, Immediately After The Tribulation

This Existing Heaven And Earth Will Be (Replaced) By The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, A New Creation, At The Return Of Jesus Christ

(Behold, I Make All Things New)

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Psalm 46:6KJV
6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.

Psalm 50:3KJV
3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.

Psalm 97:5KJV
5 The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.

Isaiah 66:15KJV
15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

Zechariah 14:12KJV
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Nahum 1:5-6KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.
6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.

Revelation 20:9KJV
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

I have no clue from what you submitted here as to how you interpret all this fire imagery. Just because it contains fire imagery, it doesn't necessarily mean literal fire is meant. Therefore, you need to be clearer here. Are you one of these Amils that don't believe what God said in Genesis 9:15? Or are you one of these Amils that do believe what God said and meant in Genesis 9:15?

After all, there are actually Amils that don't need to interpret 2 Peter 3:10-12 in the same manner these Amils in question need to interpret it. And guess what? It's not preventing them from being Amils just because they choose to believe what God said in Genesis 9:15, therefore, they don't take 2 Peter 3:10-12 in the literal sense where it then means the entire planet is literally engulfed in flames, the way the entire planet was literally engulfed in water during Noah's day.

What I'm arguing against is the manner the lost die when He returns. It's not going to be by literal fire just because the flood was by literal water. Meaning in the same manner. As in---Noah's flood equaled the entire planet literally engulfed in water---therefore, 2 Peter 3:10-12 MUST equally mean the entire planet is literally engulfed in flames. At least during the flood God was able to preserve the animal kingdom. How does one propose He does that this time around if He causes the entire planet to be engulfed in flames? Where is the ark that one can build that can withstand millions of degrees of heat so that animals can be boarded upon it in order to preserve them during this?

 

[Marty fox]

Let me be clear here. By Amil I'm not meaning every single Amil. I'm only meaning Amils falsely teaching these things, that God is literally going to engulf the entire planet in fire the same same way He literally engulfed the entire planet in water during Noah's flood.

I fully agree with Amil about the timing of 2 Peter 3:10-12 regardless that I'm Premil . I disagree with certain Amils that the entire planet is going to be literally engulfed in flames, therefore, burning to death infants, children, adults, the entire animal kingdom, etc.

And no, I'm not interested in hearing these Amils possibly argue that He is going to spare infants and children though, when these Amils know good and well He never spared them during Noah's flood. And since it is absurd that He would burn to death infants and children to begin with, let alone the entire animal kingdom, this tells any reasonable person He's not going to literally set the entire planet on fire to begin with.

Genesis 9:13 I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth.
14 And it shall come to pass, when I bring a cloud over the earth, that the bow shall be seen in the cloud:
15 And I will remember my covenant, which is between me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh.
16 And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth.
17 And God said unto Noah, This is the token of the covenant, which I have established between me and all flesh that is upon the earth.

Unlike certain Amils in this case, I believe what God said here. I do not think God is a liar here, but apparently they do.

If God plainly said that He is never going to do this ever again--- and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh. We are to believe He has found a loophole, that He is going to do something a million times more profound, burn all flesh to death this time around?

Picture being on a small ship at sea that has caught on fire and that there is no way to put it out, that it is raging fiercer by the minute. What fate do you assume one might choose per that scenario? Staying aboard the ship risking being burned to death eventually? Or jumping overboard risking being drowned to death eventually?

Surely these Amils have heard of cases where people were trapped in buildings numerous stories up that have caught on fire. And that some of them literally jumped out of windows to their death below rather than choosing to be burned to death instead. Clearly, being burned to death is one of the most cruelest ways to die, otherwise, why would anyone jump out of a window to their death below instead of being burned to death? They are going to die either way, regardless.

These Amils seriously need to repent of not believing God when He said what He said in verse 15 above, just so that they can make their Amil view supposedly work. No inhabitable planet = no millennium can follow, right? Yet, once again, if He's never going to do that ever again, He certainly isn't going to do something a million times more profound instead.

In my case, Premil has nothing to do with why I initially reject the Amil literal interpretation of 2 Peter 3:10-12. I reject it because I have better common sense than these certain Amils do in this case, since I know full well, if God is never going to bring a flood upon the earth to destroy all flesh, He certainly isn't going to do something even more profound, burn all flesh to death via the entire planet being literally engulfed in flames the way the entire planet was literally engulfed in water during Noah's day.

You said all this but didn't provide your interpretation of what Peter said.

Revelation 20
9 And I saw them as they went up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded God’s people and the beloved city. But fire from heaven came down on the attacking armies and consumed them.

Just like the harsh judgements God did in the OT it was because God is just not a sadist. God doesn't send anyone to the lake of fire they send themselves

 

[Davidpt]

Have you looked at the Biblical case for a local flood instead of a global flood? Perhaps a local flood means a local 2 Peter 3:10-12 event which might work with your view of the millennium, I don’t know. There are some good arguments for a local flood.

For example, kol eretz and ha eretz (translated as whole earth, the earth) have a much more localized and grounded meaning in Hebrew. I could go further on this but I don’t want to derail your thread into something that you didn’t intend.

Per my view of things, since none of the following, meaning what I submitted per Luke 19 below, can possibly be meaning after the time of the great white throne judgment, it then requires there has to be a habitable earth still existing in order to fulfill these things post Christ's bodily return in the end of this age, yet prior to the GWTJ, regardless what it might look like when these things are fulfilled. An example below. and I'm sure I can find more. Yet this should be sufficient to prove the point I'm attempting to make.

Luke 19:12 He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return

Luke 19:15 And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.

Luke 19:27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.


Verse 27 alone proves this is meaning before not after the time of the GWTJ. Verse 15 alone proves these things are happening on the earth after He has returned. After all, verse 12 plainly records that He is to return and that verse 15 plainly records that He has returned. Has returned to where? The moon? Mars? Pluto? How about the earth? Would that be as far fetched as Him returning to the moon or some other planet? I don't think so. No reasonable person could possibly think it is far fetched that it is the earth He has returned to per verse 15. Therefore, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that the entire planet is not engulfed in flames at the time.

 

[rwb]

Have you looked at the Biblical case for a local flood instead of a global flood? Perhaps a local flood means a local 2 Peter 3:10-12 event which might work with your view of the millennium, I don’t know. There are some good arguments for a local flood.

For example, kol eretz and ha eretz (translated as whole earth, the earth) have a much more localized and grounded meaning in Hebrew. I could go further on this but I don’t want to derail your thread into something that you didn’t intend.

How do you reconcile a localized flood in days of Noah with what is written?

2 Peter 3:4-7 (KJV) And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

The world, including the inhabitants in the days of Noah perished, but the heavens and the earth which are now are reserved for fiery judgment and perdition of ungodly man when Christ comes again. Only 8 souls of man upon the ark were spared, with the animals that were also brought into the ark.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Let me be clear here. By Amil I'm not meaning every single Amil. I'm only meaning Amils falsely teaching these things, that God is literally going to engulf the entire planet in fire the same same way He literally engulfed the entire planet in water during Noah's flood.

I fully agree with Amil about the timing of 2 Peter 3:10-12 regardless that I'm Premil . I disagree with certain Amils that the entire planet is going to be literally engulfed in flames, therefore, burning to death infants, children, adults, the entire animal kingdom, etc.

2 Pet 10 10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare.
11 Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives 12 as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. 13 But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells.

This does seem to be a problem for Premills like myself. When we speak of the "destruction of the heavens," it sounds like the entire universe is on fire, which, of course, is not possible unless the entire universe is destroyed to make way for a completely new creation of the universe. The universe does not burn. Not even a sun exploding destroys the entire universe. The "heavens" appears to be a reference to the *sky* within the domain of earth.

The 1st creation is the one the Bible says will remain. It does say there will be a new heavens and a new earth, but at the same time we are told that the earth is forever. We're told that several times in the Scriptures. It's talking about the *present earth* and not some future new earth.

So, God has no intention of re-creating the universe. He just is going to make the present one new, or eternal. In its current form it is not eternal--it is heading towards extinction. But God said He would make the heavens and the earth "new." By that I think He is saying He will make it eternal, or change its form.

If God is not going to completely annihilate the current heavens and earth what does Peter mean by saying the heavens will be "destroyed?" God doesn't have to actually "destroy" the heavens and the earth to make way for a new one. He could simply make one disappear and the new one appear. But the concept of "destruction" is employed to show a judgment, and that is, I think, the point.

I think Peter is looking at a global event in terms of local judgments throughout the world. When an enemy burns down a village and the fields, the fire rises high into the sky, or heavens, and the smoke turns the sun dark. The moon looks like blood. And the result is that all of the works of wicked men are destroyed in a short period of time, exposing them as cursed, ungodly people.

Keep in mind that Peter does not appear to be talking about the annihilation of everything. If the heavens "disappaear" the elements do not melt! Once the heavens disappear there is no longer any earth or material to burn! Therefore, I think Peter is speaking in terms of the destruction of fire such as he saw in his own time, with great fires rising to consume the oxygen in the heavens, and with the heat getting so hot that metal melts.

The idea has to do with God destroying the works of wicked men, who do not deserve to have their works last. It is an exposing of how God views all that they've done on earth. My view only....

 

[Davidpt]

You said all this but didn't provide your interpretation of what Peter said.

Revelation 20
9 And I saw them as they went up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded God’s people and the beloved city. But fire from heaven came down on the attacking armies and consumed them.

Just like the harsh judgements God did in the OT it was because God is just not a sadist. God doesn't send anyone to the lake of fire they send themselves

I'm not arguing that God does not destroy the lost. I'm arguing that He doesn't need to engulf the entire planet in literal fire in order to do so. It contradicts what He said and meant in Genesis 9:15. Even if I took Revelation 20:9 to be meaning in the end of this age the same way you and other Amils do, I still wouldn't interpret 2 Peter 3:10-12 in the same manner some Amils do since it contradicts what God said and meant in Genesis 9:15.

And it's not like the examples I used in the OP don't prove that it is million times worse to be burned to death as opposed to being drowned to death. Therefore, if God is not going to ever drown all flesh ever again, He certainly isn't going to do something a million times worse, burn them to death instead. Which would also obviously mean, there goes the entire animal kingdom then. No way for them to survive that if the entire planet is literally engulfed in flames at the time.

One point of the OP is this. Sometimes all we need to do is use a little common sense rather than allowing our doctrines to be placed above common sense. Common sense says, if God is not ever again going to destroy all flesh via a flood like He did during Noah's day, He certainly isn't going to do something even more profound, engulf the entire planet in flames and destroy all flesh in that manner this time around instead.

 

[grafted branch]

How do you reconcile a localized flood in days of Noah with what is written?

2 Peter 3:4-7 (KJV) And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

The world, including the inhabitants in the days of Noah perished, but the heavens and the earth which are now are reserved for fiery judgment and perdition of ungodly man when Christ comes again. Only 8 souls of man upon the ark were spared, with the animals that were also brought into the ark.

There is nothing to lead us to believe that humans had spread over the entire globe in the days of Noah, they were concentrated and localized. The story in Genesis regarding the tower of Babel seems to imply at the very least the human custom of staying closely together was both cultural and normative during this time period.

This means a severe, but local flood would have been enough to wipe out all of mankind, because all of mankind was centralized around the Garden of Eden and surrounding areas.

 

[Truth7t7]

I have no clue from what you submitted here as to how you interpret all this fire imagery. Just because it contains fire imagery, it doesn't necessarily mean literal fire is meant. Therefore, you need to be clearer here. Are you one of these Amils that don't believe what God said in Genesis 9:15? Or are you one of these Amils that do believe what God said and meant in Genesis 9:15?

After all, there are actually Amils that don't need to interpret 2 Peter 3:10-12 in the same manner these Amils in question need to interpret it. And guess what? It's not preventing them from being Amils just because they choose to believe what God said in Genesis 9:15, therefore, they don't take 2 Peter 3:10-12 in the literal sense where it then means the entire planet is literally engulfed in flames, the way the entire planet was literally engulfed in water during Noah's day.

What I'm arguing against is the manner the lost die when He returns. It's not going to be by literal fire just because the flood was by literal water. Meaning in the same manner. As in---Noah's flood equaled the entire planet literally engulfed in water---therefore, 2 Peter 3:10-12 MUST equally mean the entire planet is literally engulfed in flames. At least during the flood God was able to preserve the animal kingdom. How does one propose He does that this time around if He causes the entire planet to be engulfed in flames? Where is the ark that one can build that can withstand millions of degrees of heat so that animals can be boarded upon it in order to preserve them during this?

Did God "Literally Destroy Sodom and Gomorrah" by fire and brimstone, or was that just a fairy tale found in God's Holy Words?

Luke 17:29-÷0KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

 

[Truth7t7]

This means a severe, but local flood would have been enough to wipe out all of mankind, because all of mankind was centralized around the Garden of Eden and surrounding areas.

Your localized flood doesn't agree with God's words below, the entire earth's mountains were covered, every living creature that had breath "Died" just as God's words clearly teach below

Genesis 7:17-23KJV
17 And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bare up the ark, and it was lift up above the earth.
18 And the waters prevailed, and were increased greatly upon the earth; and the ark went upon the face of the waters.
19 And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered.
20 Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.
21 And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man:
22 All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.
23 And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.

 

[rwb]

There is nothing to lead us to believe that humans had spread over the entire globe in the days of Noah, they were concentrated and localized. The story in Genesis regarding the tower of Babel seems to imply at the very least the human custom of staying closely together was both cultural and normative during this time period.

This means a severe, but local flood would have been enough to wipe out all of mankind, because all of mankind was centralized around the Garden of Eden and surrounding areas.

Whether humans covered the globe or not is irrelevant! The fact remains that every living breathing creature left upon the earth when the flood waters came utterly perished. Only those who were in the ark were spared! So it shall be when the fiery judgment of God comes down upon the earth, every single living breathing creature left upon the whole earth (ALL life) shall also perish in the flames in the same way none outside the ark were left alive, neither shall any outside of Christ shall be left alive when the flames of God's wrath is poured out upon the whole earth. .

 

[Marty fox]

I'm not arguing that God does not destroy the lost. I'm arguing that He doesn't need to engulf the entire planet in literal fire in order to do so. It contradicts what He said and meant in Genesis 9:15. Even if I took Revelation 20:9 to be meaning in the end of this age the same way you and other Amils do, I still wouldn't interpret 2 Peter 3:10-12 in the same manner some Amils do since it contradicts what God said and meant in Genesis 9:15.

And it's not like the examples I used in the OP don't prove that it is million times worse to be burned to death as opposed to being drowned to death. Therefore, if God is not going to ever drown all flesh ever again, He certainly isn't going to do something a million times worse, burn them to death instead. Which would also obviously mean, there goes the entire animal kingdom then. No way for them to survive that if the entire planet is literally engulfed in flames at the time.

One point of the OP is this. Sometimes all we need to do is use a little common sense rather than allowing our doctrines to be placed above common sense. Common sense says, if God is not ever again going to destroy all flesh via a flood like He did during Noah's day, He certainly isn't going to do something even more profound, engulf the entire planet in flames and destroy all flesh in that manner this time around instead.

Okay so once again what is your interpretation?

 

[grafted branch]

Your localized flood doesn't agree with God's words below, the entire earth's mountains were covered, every living creature that had breath "Died" just as God's words clearly teach below

Genesis 7:17-23KJV
17 And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bare up the ark, and it was lift up above the earth.
18 And the waters prevailed, and were increased greatly upon the earth; and the ark went upon the face of the waters.
19 And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered.
20 Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.
21 And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man:
22 All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.
23 And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.

Kol eretz and ha eretz (translated as whole earth, the earth) have a much more localized and grounded meaning in Hebrew. Every time kol eretzis is used in Genesis, it is speaking of a limited area. Eretz itself is actually better translated as soil or ground. (see Robert Alter's translation of Genesis)

When God creates ha shamayim and ha eretz in Genesis 1, the text is not talking about "planet earth" and "space", it is quite literally saying that God created everything between the ground and the skies. It presupposes that everything else that exists was created by God as well (because He is the only creator), but for the sake of men and women, to whom the story is being written, it limits the scope of its descriptions to the things that we are directly familiar with that is the ground and the sky. In the same vein there is no mention of when or where angelic beings or the spirit realm were created, because they don't fall within the purvey or purpose of the story, they're simply presupposed to have been created by God, without any more details given.

When Genesis says that all the earth was covered, including the mountains, the scope of the language is by definition limited and local. Saying in English that all the soil was covered in water is very different from saying the whole earth was covered in water.

 

[grafted branch]

Whether humans covered the globe or not is irrelevant! The fact remains that every living breathing creature left upon the earth when the flood waters came utterly perished. Only those who were in the ark were spared! So it shall be when the fiery judgment of God comes down upon the earth, every single living breathing creature left upon the whole earth (ALL life) shall also perish in the flames in the same way none outside the ark were left alive, neither shall any outside of Christ shall be left alive when the flames of God's wrath is poured out upon the whole earth. .

I would say it is relevant, Sodom and Gomorra were local and the flood was local. That’s important information when we look at 2 Peter 3.

The whole entire planet didn’t perish when He came in 70AD

 

[Wish-it]

Have you looked at the Biblical case for a local flood instead of a global flood? Perhaps a local flood means a local 2 Peter 3:10-12 event which might work with your view of the millennium, I don’t know. There are some good arguments for a local flood.

For example, kol eretz and ha eretz (translated as whole earth, the earth) have a much more localized and grounded meaning in Hebrew. I could go further on this but I don’t want to derail your thread into something that you didn’t intend.

I agree, it totally alters the meaning of scripture. The whole earth seems badly translated.

 

[Wish-it]

I would say it is relevant, Sodom and Gomorra were local and the flood was local. That’s important information when we look at 2 Peter 3.

The whole entire planet didn’t perish when He came in 70AD

The third empire didn't rule over the whole earth Dan 2.39

 

[rwb]

I would say it is relevant, Sodom and Gomorra were local and the flood was local. That’s important information when we look at 2 Peter 3.

The whole entire planet didn’t perish when He came in 70AD

You argue the flood was local, but in doing so you ignore explicit verses that prove your assumption in err!

God did not say the entire planet would perish along with Jerusalem in 70 AD.

 

[grafted branch]

The third empire didn't rule over the whole earth Dan 2.39

Right, and the fourth kingdom was Rome, which did rule over all the earth.