Biblical proof that we the New Testament Church are true Israel today
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Came across these verses this week which does not line up with the thread's claim: -
Deu 14:1-2: - 14:1 "You are the children of the Lord your God; you shall not cut yourselves nor shave the front of your head for the dead. 2 For you are a holy people to the Lord your God, and the Lord has chosen you to be a people for Himself, a special treasure above all the peoples who are upon the face of the fertile soil.
Perhaps we Christians need to become more humble.
Deu 14:1-2: - 14:1 "You are the children of the Lord your God; you shall not cut yourselves nor shave the front of your head for the dead. 2 For you are a holy people to the Lord your God, and the Lord has chosen you to be a people for Himself, a special treasure above all the peoples who are upon the face of the fertile soil.
Perhaps we Christians need to become more humble.
Yes, the then remnant back in Paul's day. But, the 7,000 related to Elijah's day. This was simply presented to reinforce the thought that there has always been a believing spiritual remnant within natural ethnic Israel.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
Perhaps you should learn how to be more clear and explain exactly how you think those verses don't line up with the thread's claim? Do you think any unbelieving Israelite is among God's people?
God draws His Saints to occupy His fertile soil/field and in the two verses they tell us that the Israelites are God's special treasure of all the people who are inhabiting His Fertile field/soil even more special to Him than all of the Gentiles who also worship Him.
Not so! God is no respecter of persons (Acts 10:34-35, Romans 2:11, Galatians 2:6, Ephesians 6:9, Colossians 3:25, 1 Peter 1:17). God shows no favoritism regard to a person’s nationality, color, social status, education, knowledge, family heritage, race, or gender. Basically, your birthplace, birthday or passport carries no merit with God. The exclusive nationalistic favor of one nation has been eternally removed in Christ to embrace both Jew and Gentile equally by faith. This will never be overturned. The sinner (of all nationalities) enters exclusively into communion with God through faith in Christ on an equal basis.
These special treasures?
Numbers 25
3 And Israel joined himself unto Baalpeor: and the anger of the Lord was kindled against Israel.
9 And those that died in the plague were twenty and four thousand.
Or these.
Matthew 23
33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
Or these.
1 Thessalonians 2
14 For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews:
15 Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men:
16 Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the
uttermost.
Exactly! Many cannot seem to let go of the old covenant, even though it is long gone. That is because they use it to support what they have been wrongly taught. They refuse to enter into the freedom and victory of NT truth.
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To think in the way of the OC with Israel and the land, is not how the NC teaches us about Israel, which is according to the Spirit, the true Israel who are of God.
If none of Israel according to the flesh believes, then they are not the Israel of God.
Jesus called them Abraham's descendants, and they were, but this was according to the flesh and not the Spirit.
Those who are in the flesh cannot please God, and God was displeased with most of them and they died in many various judgments.
Those who are in the flesh and not the spirit go astray in their hearts, and they have not known God's ways.
They cannot enter in because of unbelief.
God spoke, they did not listen, God says that is unbelief.
Hebrews 3
7 Therefore, as the Holy Spirit says:
“Today, if you will hear His voice,
8 Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion,
In the day of trial in the wilderness,
9 Where your fathers tested Me, tried Me,
And saw My works forty years.
10 Therefore I was angry with that generation,
And said, ‘They always go astray in their heart,
And they have not known My ways.’
11 So I swore in My wrath,
‘They shall not enter My rest.’ ”
16 For who, having heard, rebelled? Indeed, was it not all who came out of Egypt, led by Moses?
17 Now with whom was He angry forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose corpses fell in the wilderness?
18 And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who did not obey?
19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.
Romans 8
5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be [b]carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the [c]carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
John 8 was true 2000 years ago and is still true today about Israel according to the flesh.
Abraham’s Seed and Satan’s
37 “I know that you are Abraham’s descendants, but you seek to kill Me, because My word has no place in you. 38 I speak what I have seen with My Father, and you do what you have [n]seen with your father.”39 They answered and said to Him, “Abraham is our father.”
Jesus said to them, “If you were Abraham’s children, you would do the works of Abraham. 40 But now you seek to kill Me, a Man who has told you the truth which I heard from God. Abraham did not do this. 41 You do the deeds of your father.”
Then they said to Him, “We were not born of fornication; we have one Father—God.”
42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and came from God; nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me. 43 Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are not able to listen to My word. 44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it. 45 But because I tell the truth, you do not believe Me. 46 Which of you convicts Me of sin? And if I tell the truth, why do you not believe Me? 47 He who is of God hears God’s words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God.”
Before Abraham Was, I AM
48 Then the Jews answered and said to Him, “Do we not say rightly that You are a Samaritan and have a demon?”49 Jesus answered, “I do not have a demon; but I honor My Father, and you dishonor Me. 50 And I do not seek My own glory; there is One who seeks and judges. 51 Most assuredly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My word he shall never see death.”
52 Then the Jews said to Him, “Now we know that You have a demon! Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and You say, ‘If anyone keeps My word he shall never taste death.’ 53 Are You greater than our father Abraham, who is dead? And the prophets are dead. Who do You make Yourself out to be?”
54 Jesus answered, “If I honor Myself, My honor is nothing. It is My Father who honors Me, of whom you say that He is [o]your God. 55 Yet you have not known Him, but I know Him. And if I say, ‘I do not know Him,’ I shall be a liar like you; but I do know Him and keep His word. 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.”
57 Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?”
58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”
59 Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple, going[p] through the midst of them, and so passed by.
Bible Gateway passage: Romans 8 - New King James Version
Free from Indwelling Sin - There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do...
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
That's total nonsense and contradicts the entire New Testament. Try reading the New Testament some time so that you can learn the truth.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
Absolutely agree. It couldn't be more clear. That is taught over and over again in the New Testament. Some people here have apparently never read the New Testament. It's just sad to see. I think Judaism probably appeals to some of them more than Christianity does.
They want to be Old Covenant Christians.
Your rebuttal does not refute what is recorded in Deuteronomy 14:1-2.
Your statement, "The sinner (of all nationalities) enters exclusively into communion with God through faith in Christ on an equal basis." is true and I have no disagreement with it, however I also cannot dispute what God said in Deu 14:1-2 like you have done.
I agree that the actions of Israel and their continual idolatrous worship during the last four ages will not stand well with them and as such during the last two ages of the existence of the nation of Israel their iniquities of the father's continual idolatrous worship has been and still is being visited upon their children and their children's children during the third and the fourth ages of their existence. However, God has also stated that He will redeem Israel and wash them clean once again so that they can become a nation of Priests, a Holy Nation and His Possession among the Nation. It is God's prerogative to decide if the Israelites will become His special treasure or not. This decision is not ours to question.
Behold
Well-Known Member
Sorry SI, but Christ first came in the personhood of His only begotten Son to the Israelites. Why? Because Israel was a special treasure to Him and He was giving them an opportunity to repent first of their idolatrous worship.
When they would not repent as a nation, God sent His apostles also to the Gentile nation in an attempt to make the Israelites jealous of the Gentile nations and their newfound relationship with God/Christ.
Now is that not the message embedded within the NT. Does not Paul inform us that after the Daniel 8 prophecy of Israel being trampled for 2,300 years has become completed, that then all of Israel would be saved. Sadly, too many theologians are disputing who among the Israelites will be "saved."
For me, the fact that after 2,300 years of Israelites be trampled because they were God Special People that He would once more draw them back to Himself, suggests, beyond any doubt that I might have, that the nation of Israel is still a special treasure to Him.
Even the Church will have their "kings" assembling against Israel at the place called Armageddon in scripture.
Go figure.
The New Testament is the only Testament in force since it was effected by Christ's death at Calvary. Hebrews 9:14-17
Where does the New Testament make your claims?
Books/chapters/verses please.
Something for you to ponder.
In God's New Will and Testament, all covenants and promises are fulfilled only in Christ, and in those who are in Christ.
The OT covenants and promises are the promissory clauses of God's Old Will and Testament, and they are both revoked and fulfilled in the promissory clauses of His New Will and Testament, written in the Blood of His Son Jesus Christ, the Divine Testator, coming into full force and effect upon His death.
If you have written your own Will and Testament, you will see that the very first clause states the following or its equivalent:
"I HEREBY REVOKE all former Wills and other testamentary dispositions by me at any time therefore made and declare this to be my Last Will and Testament."
This means that all former wills and testaments, and all of their promissory clauses in their entirety, are completely null and void. In their place, the promissory clauses of the current last new will and testament are the only ones in force and effect. Any promissory clause which appeared in the old will and testament, but does not appear in the new will and testament, is irrevocably null and void unless yet another new will and testament is made which re-includes it.
Thus we see:
Hebrews 9
15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
Hebrews 10
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
Hebrews 8
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
God`s New Will and Testament is everlasting:
Hebrews 13
20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant.
There is none greater.
We see other new promissory clauses of the New Will and Testament in:
Matthew 21:33-45
In this parable, the son, who is identified as the heir, typifies Christ.
Galatians 3:16
Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
2 Corinthians 1:20
For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.
Hebrews 1:1,2
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
In them, we see that the Heir and Beneficiary is Christ alone, that all of the promises are affirmed and confirmed in Him, and that He is Heir of all things. All includes the OT land promises, the restoration promises, the blessings promises, and all else. There are no exceptions.
God has appointed His Son alone as heir of all things. Unbelieving Israel is not an heir. Galatians 4:30-31.
His New Will and Testament contains even better promises:
Hebrews 8
6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
Such as:
Hebrews 11
16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.
Additional promissory clauses in...:
Romans 8:16-17
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
Galatians 3:29
And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
...declare that those who are in Christ are heirs and joint heirs with Him.
But it is clear, plain, and undeniable:
There are no promissory clauses for anyone, Jew or Gentile...
Who is not in Christ under His New Covenant/Testament.
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Verse 15 should read as, And, for this cause, He is the mediator of the refreshed testament/covenant that by means of death, . . ."
It seems to me that you have no understanding of the meaning of G:305 which is a reference to age, whereas G:2537 is a reference to the refurbishment/refreshing of something that has deteriorated over a period of time.
Jesus pointed out in Mat 13:52 that a man who is well versed in the things of the kingdom will bring out something that is ancient, from the time of Adam but which has been refreshed so that it has the air of being like new again.
Remember that God's promise of Salvation is the same today as it was in the distant past and will be in the distant future.
My understanding that there is no brand-new salvation covenant but there is a refreshed Salvation covenant whereby the process for our redemption now been changed to being redeemed in Christ Blood, that is we are washed clean by the spilt blood of Christ.
So when Scripture doesn't agree with you, it "should read as".
No it shouldn't.
For some reason, you've ignored these Scriptures. Here they are again. They directly refute your errors. There is no "refurbishment/refreshing".
Everything is new and better.
Hebrews 8
6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
Hebrews 8
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
Hebrews 10
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
2537 [e]
kainēs
καινῆς
new
Adj-GFS
"new, which as recently made is superior to what it succeeds: διαθήκη, Matthew 26:28 (T WH omit καινά); Mark 14:24 R L; Luke 22:20 (WH reject the passage); 1 Corinthians 11:25; 2 Corinthians 3:6; Hebrews 8:8, 13; Hebrews 9:15
Stop trying to exhume your decayed old vanished carcass.
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