soberxp
Well-Known Member
AI raw Word of God, if Christians who follow CHRIST, the KING of the JEWS are New Covenant JEWs by definition.. Then how did CI Scofiled, Oxford and Rockefeller convince 80 million Christians that people who follow a 2000 year old dead covenant are still relevant whatsoever at all?
Hmm, this is a highly charged theological and historical question with strong presuppositions embedded in the phrasing. The user is operating from a specific Christian Zionist perspective that views modern Christianity as the true "New Covenant Jews," while dismissing mainstream Judaism as obsolete. The query also references conspiracy-adjacent figures (Scofield, Rockefeller) influencing millions.
Need to address three layers: the theological claim about "New Covenant Jews," the historical mechanism of how Dispensationalism spread, and the underlying polemic about Judaism's relevance. Should acknowledge the user's framework while providing factual counterpoints.
The response should first establish the theological divide (Replacement Theology vs. Dispensationalism) to contextualize the disagreement. Then explain Scofield's role in popularizing the "two peoples of God" concept through his reference Bible and institutional backing. Finally, address the core tension about Judaism's relevance by contrasting supersessionist views with Dispensationalism's eschatological need for earthly Israel.
Important to maintain academic tone while dealing with conspiratorial elements - can reference Rockefeller funding without endorsing full conspiracy narratives. The conclusion should reframe the question away from "relevance" toward differing hermeneutical approaches.
This is a profound and sharply worded question that cuts to the heart of a major theological and historical shift within American Christianity in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. To answer it, we need to break down the components of your question.
Let's first address the premise, then the mechanism.
Part 1: Your Premise - "Christians are New Covenant Jews"
This is a specific theological position, often associated with Covenant Theology. In this view:
The Church is the spiritual successor to Israel, the "true Israel" or "Israel of God" (from interpretations of Galatians 6:16 and Romans 9:6-8).
The New Covenant in Jesus' blood fulfills and replaces the Old (Mosaic) Covenant, which is seen as obsolete (Hebrews 8:13).
Therefore, the promises, covenants, and identity of Israel are now inherited by the Church, composed of both Jewish and Gentile believers.
From this perspective, your statement is logical. If the Church is the continuation of God's covenant people, then modern Judaism, which does not accept Jesus as the Messiah, is following a superseded religious system.
Part 2: The Mechanism - How Scofield, Oxford, and Rockefeller Changed the Narrative
The system that directly challenged your premise and convinced millions of Christians of the ongoing relevance of ethnic Israel and the "Old Covenant" people is known as Dispensationalism.
Here’s how it happened, addressing the figures you named:
1. The Theological Innovation: Dispensationalism
Dispensationalism is a system of biblical interpretation that:
Divides history into distinct "dispensations" or periods where God relates to humanity in different ways.
Makes a sharp distinction between Israel and the Church. In this view, Israel is God's earthly people with earthly promises (land, nation, temple), and the Church is God's heavenly people with spiritual promises. They are two separate entities in God's plan.
Teaches a Literal, Future Fulfillment of Old Testament Promises to National Israel. Because God's promises to Abraham and David were unconditional and given to a specific ethnic nation, they must be literally fulfilled by that same nation in the future. This requires a regathering of the Jewish people to their land and a restoration of the Davidic kingdom.
Popularized the Doctrine of the "Pre-Tribulation Rapture." This teaching, that the Church will be taken to heaven before a period of "Tribulation" focused on Israel, further reinforced the separation between God's plans for Israel and the Church.
2. The Key Figure: C.I. Scofield and His Reference Bible
This is where C.I. Scofield becomes central. He did not invent Dispensationalism (that credit often goes to John Nelson Darby), but he was its most effective popularizer.
The Scofield Reference Bible (1909, 1917): This was a King James Version Bible with extensive study notes printed right on the same page as the biblical text. For millions of Christians, these notes were not just commentary; they were authoritative explanation.
The Power of the Platform: Scofield's notes systematically presented the entire Dispensationalist framework. When a reader came to a prophecy about Israel, Scofield's note would explicitly state it was for a future, literal, national Israel, not the Church. This trained generations of pastors and laypeople to read the Bible through a Dispensationalist lens.
Accessibility and Authority: The Bible itself was the vehicle for this new theology, giving it an air of divine authority and making it incredibly accessible.
3. The Institutional Backing: The "Oxford and Rockefeller" Connection
You mentioned Oxford and Rockefeller. While the specifics can be exaggerated in conspiracy theories, there is a kernel of historical truth about institutional support.
Wealthy Patrons: The early Fundamentalist and Bible prophecy conference movement, which was the breeding ground for Dispensationalism, was financially supported by wealthy laymen. These included businessmen like Lyman Stewart (founder of Union Oil), who funded the publication and distribution of The Fundamentals booklets and also bankrolled the Scofield Reference Bible.
The "Oxford" Connection: This likely refers to the Oxford University Press, which was the original publisher of the Scofield Reference Bible in the UK. The use of a prestigious name like "Oxford" lent immense credibility and a global distribution network to Scofield's work. The Rockefeller family, through their vast philanthropic efforts, also funded institutions and seminaries that, while not exclusively Dispensational, often promoted the kind of scholarly, text-based evangelicalism where Dispensationalism could thrive.
In short: Scofield, backed by wealthy donors and a prestigious publisher, packaged a new theology into the Bible itself. For the average Christian, this wasn't a complex theological argument; it was simply what the "study Bible" said the verse meant.
Conclusion: Answering Your Core Question
So, how did they convince 80 million Christians that "people who follow a 2000-year-old dead covenant are still relevant"?
They introduced and mass-marketed a new theological system (Dispensationalism) that redefined the terms of relevance.
In the Dispensationalist view, modern Jewish people are not relevant because their covenant is "current" or salvific—it isn't. They are relevant because of Prophecy and Promise.
They are the Key to Prophecy: The regathering of Jews to Israel is seen as a necessary precondition for the end-times events described in Daniel, Ezekiel, and Revelation.
God's Unfulfilled Promises: God made unconditional promises to the ethnic descendants of Abraham. For God to be faithful, those promises must be literally fulfilled by them in the future.
A Separate Plan: The Church has not replaced Israel; God has simply paused his plan for Israel and is working through the Church in the current age. After the Rapture, his focus will return to Israel.
Therefore, from this perspective, the Jewish people are profoundly relevant not for their current religious practice, but for their prophetic destiny as the central actors in the final drama of human history. This framework completely bypassed the older Covenant Theology view that you started with and created the modern evangelical Christian Zionism that is so influential today.
Hmm, this is a highly charged theological and historical question with strong presuppositions embedded in the phrasing. The user is operating from a specific Christian Zionist perspective that views modern Christianity as the true "New Covenant Jews," while dismissing mainstream Judaism as obsolete. The query also references conspiracy-adjacent figures (Scofield, Rockefeller) influencing millions.
Need to address three layers: the theological claim about "New Covenant Jews," the historical mechanism of how Dispensationalism spread, and the underlying polemic about Judaism's relevance. Should acknowledge the user's framework while providing factual counterpoints.
The response should first establish the theological divide (Replacement Theology vs. Dispensationalism) to contextualize the disagreement. Then explain Scofield's role in popularizing the "two peoples of God" concept through his reference Bible and institutional backing. Finally, address the core tension about Judaism's relevance by contrasting supersessionist views with Dispensationalism's eschatological need for earthly Israel.
Important to maintain academic tone while dealing with conspiratorial elements - can reference Rockefeller funding without endorsing full conspiracy narratives. The conclusion should reframe the question away from "relevance" toward differing hermeneutical approaches.
This is a profound and sharply worded question that cuts to the heart of a major theological and historical shift within American Christianity in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. To answer it, we need to break down the components of your question.
Let's first address the premise, then the mechanism.
Part 1: Your Premise - "Christians are New Covenant Jews"
This is a specific theological position, often associated with Covenant Theology. In this view:
The Church is the spiritual successor to Israel, the "true Israel" or "Israel of God" (from interpretations of Galatians 6:16 and Romans 9:6-8).
The New Covenant in Jesus' blood fulfills and replaces the Old (Mosaic) Covenant, which is seen as obsolete (Hebrews 8:13).
Therefore, the promises, covenants, and identity of Israel are now inherited by the Church, composed of both Jewish and Gentile believers.
From this perspective, your statement is logical. If the Church is the continuation of God's covenant people, then modern Judaism, which does not accept Jesus as the Messiah, is following a superseded religious system.
Part 2: The Mechanism - How Scofield, Oxford, and Rockefeller Changed the Narrative
The system that directly challenged your premise and convinced millions of Christians of the ongoing relevance of ethnic Israel and the "Old Covenant" people is known as Dispensationalism.
Here’s how it happened, addressing the figures you named:
1. The Theological Innovation: Dispensationalism
Dispensationalism is a system of biblical interpretation that:
Divides history into distinct "dispensations" or periods where God relates to humanity in different ways.
Makes a sharp distinction between Israel and the Church. In this view, Israel is God's earthly people with earthly promises (land, nation, temple), and the Church is God's heavenly people with spiritual promises. They are two separate entities in God's plan.
Teaches a Literal, Future Fulfillment of Old Testament Promises to National Israel. Because God's promises to Abraham and David were unconditional and given to a specific ethnic nation, they must be literally fulfilled by that same nation in the future. This requires a regathering of the Jewish people to their land and a restoration of the Davidic kingdom.
Popularized the Doctrine of the "Pre-Tribulation Rapture." This teaching, that the Church will be taken to heaven before a period of "Tribulation" focused on Israel, further reinforced the separation between God's plans for Israel and the Church.
2. The Key Figure: C.I. Scofield and His Reference Bible
This is where C.I. Scofield becomes central. He did not invent Dispensationalism (that credit often goes to John Nelson Darby), but he was its most effective popularizer.
The Scofield Reference Bible (1909, 1917): This was a King James Version Bible with extensive study notes printed right on the same page as the biblical text. For millions of Christians, these notes were not just commentary; they were authoritative explanation.
The Power of the Platform: Scofield's notes systematically presented the entire Dispensationalist framework. When a reader came to a prophecy about Israel, Scofield's note would explicitly state it was for a future, literal, national Israel, not the Church. This trained generations of pastors and laypeople to read the Bible through a Dispensationalist lens.
Accessibility and Authority: The Bible itself was the vehicle for this new theology, giving it an air of divine authority and making it incredibly accessible.
3. The Institutional Backing: The "Oxford and Rockefeller" Connection
You mentioned Oxford and Rockefeller. While the specifics can be exaggerated in conspiracy theories, there is a kernel of historical truth about institutional support.
Wealthy Patrons: The early Fundamentalist and Bible prophecy conference movement, which was the breeding ground for Dispensationalism, was financially supported by wealthy laymen. These included businessmen like Lyman Stewart (founder of Union Oil), who funded the publication and distribution of The Fundamentals booklets and also bankrolled the Scofield Reference Bible.
The "Oxford" Connection: This likely refers to the Oxford University Press, which was the original publisher of the Scofield Reference Bible in the UK. The use of a prestigious name like "Oxford" lent immense credibility and a global distribution network to Scofield's work. The Rockefeller family, through their vast philanthropic efforts, also funded institutions and seminaries that, while not exclusively Dispensational, often promoted the kind of scholarly, text-based evangelicalism where Dispensationalism could thrive.
In short: Scofield, backed by wealthy donors and a prestigious publisher, packaged a new theology into the Bible itself. For the average Christian, this wasn't a complex theological argument; it was simply what the "study Bible" said the verse meant.
Conclusion: Answering Your Core Question
So, how did they convince 80 million Christians that "people who follow a 2000-year-old dead covenant are still relevant"?
They introduced and mass-marketed a new theological system (Dispensationalism) that redefined the terms of relevance.
In the Dispensationalist view, modern Jewish people are not relevant because their covenant is "current" or salvific—it isn't. They are relevant because of Prophecy and Promise.
They are the Key to Prophecy: The regathering of Jews to Israel is seen as a necessary precondition for the end-times events described in Daniel, Ezekiel, and Revelation.
God's Unfulfilled Promises: God made unconditional promises to the ethnic descendants of Abraham. For God to be faithful, those promises must be literally fulfilled by them in the future.
A Separate Plan: The Church has not replaced Israel; God has simply paused his plan for Israel and is working through the Church in the current age. After the Rapture, his focus will return to Israel.
Therefore, from this perspective, the Jewish people are profoundly relevant not for their current religious practice, but for their prophetic destiny as the central actors in the final drama of human history. This framework completely bypassed the older Covenant Theology view that you started with and created the modern evangelical Christian Zionism that is so influential today.
And here’s the kicker:
