The distain for romance, family, and the demonization of sexualality and women in Christianity

[GodsGrace]

I suspected you used it specifically but I felt I wanted to clarify what I meant.

We can if you like but if not it's ok. I really enjoy engaging with you. I have been on a lot of these sites and I must say you are at the top of the list of those I most like talking to. You speak with candor and it makes the discussions worthwhile AND enjoyable. You also remind me to be nice. I need that

As to church matters we can get back to that because I think you're all wet on those points lol

Well, I had to give you a LOVE after all those compliments!

But then you told me I'm all wet on some points!


Let's put it this way:
Would YOU like to hear a woman celebrating Mass?
Would YOU like to confess your sins to a woman priest?
Would YOU go to her with some particular problem?

Waiting for your reply
but later.

PS
I enjoy posting to you too.

 

[nedsk]

Well, I had to give you a LOVE after all those compliments!

But then you told me I'm all wet on some points!


Let's put it this way:
Would YOU like to hear a woman celebrating Mass?
Would YOU like to confess your sins to a woman priest?
Would YOU go to her with some particular problem?

Waiting for your reply
but later.

PS
I enjoy posting to you too.

I meant the all wet comment in good humor

No I wouldn't
No I wouldn't
If she wants as a priest you mean? I have no problem talking to women if I have a problem.

I'm not sure what that has to do with women being equal in the church.

Thank you. You made me blush

 

[Grailhunter]

I don't think we're addressing the same topic.

How women were treated back then.
And how we should treat them now.

 

[GodsGrace]

I meant the all wet comment in good humor

No I wouldn't
No I wouldn't
If she wants as a priest you mean? I have no problem talking to women if I have a problem.

Yes. I meant as a priest.

See.
We agree!

Women should not be priests and, in fact, the CC does not allow women priests.

I'm not sure what that has to do with women being equal in the church.

Thank you. You made me blush

How can women in the church be equal if they aren't offered the same opportunities?
They're equal in personhood and how they're treated...they are NOT treated as second class Catholics....
but to say that they're equal means they are equal in all....
and I don't find this to be true.

Women seem to do OK with the choir and with catechism....
I believe it ends there.

I just can't think of an office in the church of any importance that is held by a woman...
at least here.

 

[GodsGrace]

How women were treated back then.
And how we should treat them now.

Oh.

Well Moses made it a little easier for women by allowing divorce only with a certificate. It used to be that a man could just walk out on his wife. This is all I could think of right now. I'm painting my laundry room at the same time as posting.

So how we should treat women now.....
Of course they should be treated better now.

What I'm saying is simply that I don't believe women are equal in the churches that I know of.
Are they by you? You think women in churches have the same opportunities?


They get treated equally but they don't have the same opportunities.
(see no. 44)

 

[nedsk]

Yes. I meant as a priest.

See.
We agree!

Women should not be priests and, in fact, the CC does not allow women priests.

How can women in the church be equal if they aren't offered the same opportunities?
They're equal in personhood and how they're treated...they are NOT treated as second class Catholics....
but to say that they're equal means they are equal in all....
and I don't find this to be true.

Women seem to do OK with the choir and with catechism....
I believe it ends there.

I just can't think of an office in the church of any importance that is held by a woman...
at least here.

You seem to think equal is equivalent to being the same.

I think catechism is FAR more important than any other office in the church. One of my complaints about the church is how poorly catechized many Catholic are. That's not intended to be a knock on the people who are catechist but we've lacked strong direction in that area. The DRE at my last parish was excellent. The kids under her care knee their stuff. I remember the bishop praising her at a confirmation saying the young adults at our parish were some of the best prepared hed seen in the while diocese.

 

[nedsk]

Oh.

Well Moses made it a little easier for women by allowing divorce only with a certificate. It used to be that a man could just walk out on his wife. This is all I could think of right now. I'm painting my laundry room at the same time as posting.

So how we should treat women now.....
Of course they should be treated better now.

What I'm saying is simply that I don't believe women are equal in the churches that I know of.
Are they by you? You think women in churches have the same opportunities?


They get treated equally but they don't have the same opportunities.
(see no. 44)

Again equal doesnt mean the same.

 

[GodsGrace]

You seem to think equal is equivalent to being the same.

I think catechism is FAR more important than any other office in the church. One of complaints about the church is how poorly catechized many Catholic are. That's not intended to be a knock on the people who are catechist but we've lacked strong direction in that area. The DRE at my last parish was excellent. The kids under her care knee their stuff. I remember the bishop praising her at a confirmation saying the young adults at our parish were some of the best prepared her see in the while diocese.

I agree with you.
The problem in Rome is that they don't know for sure how to attack this problem.
Now they're trying new ideas because they feel catechism has to change for the new generation.
I disagree.

The CEI (Catechism Episcople Italian) wants to try to put more fun and games into catechism...make it seem less of an hour of study.
I coudn't disagree more. I think it should be more SERIOUS...with homework even. Somehow these kids are able to learn history and math...but Rome is worried that they can't learn about their faith in a serious manner.

If worship is more serious...it seems more real and more important...
washing it down is the opposite of what would work - IMHO.

 

[Grailhunter]

Well Moses made it a little easier for women by allowing divorce only with a certificate. It used to be that a man could just walk out on his wife. This is all I could think of right now. I'm painting my laundry room at the same time as posting.

Kind of one sided. A guy with 5 wives could divorce one to marry a younger wife. And the wife did not get the kids or property.

The wife could not divorce her husband. If she just left it was automatically considered adultery and she could be killed.

Even in Christianity a wife could not divorce her husband until around the 18th century.

 

[GodsGrace]

Again equal doesnt mean the same.

What does it mean?
You didn't agree with the definition I gave?

 

[Grailhunter]

Do you think women in churches have the same opportunities?

No.
But with over 30.000 denominations, some treat women better than others.

 

[GodsGrace]

Kind of one sided. A guy with 5 wives could divorce one to marry a younger wife. And the wife did not get the kids or property.

The wife could not divorce her husband. If she just left it was automatically considered adultery and she could be killed.

Even in Christianity a wife could not divorce her husband until around the 17th century.

Well, now everyone is divorcing everybody.
What a mess.
How about a marriage dissolving after 25 years because the husband found a girlfriend?

At least he has to pay her a monthly alimony and MAYBE she'll get half of the house but she'll still have to move (unless she pays him a hefty 1/2 for his part).

But getting back to the subject....

How do YOU define EQUAL?

 

[GodsGrace]

No.
But with over 30.000 denominations, some treat women better than others.

OK.

Equal means having the same opportunities.

So what about the fact that churches do not allow women Deacons or Priests?
(some churches).

Do you agree with this?

 

[nedsk]

What does it mean?
You didn't agree with the definition I gave?

I can have equal amounts of water and gasoline but they arent the same. I have equal amounts of water in a plastic bucket to the amount of gasoline in a can. Not the same. The value of equal amounts of water and gasoline are not the same. Youre talking about what you think is fair. That's an entirely different matter.

 

[GodsGrace]

No.
But with over 30.000 denominations, some treat women better than others.

What do you mean by "treated better"?
Do you mean that in some denominations women get MISTREATED?

 

[nedsk]

OK.

Equal means having the same opportunities.

So what about the fact that churches do not allow women Deacons or Priests?
(some churches).

Do you agree with this?

This is why I enjoy talking to you. You don't agree there should be women priests but you can argue for their not have equal opportunities. I LOVE that you can do that, i really do!

 

[Grailhunter]

How do YOU define EQUAL?

Pretty much what you said. Women should have the same opportunities in church and society.

 

[Grailhunter]

OK.

Equal means having the same opportunities.

So what about the fact that churches do not allow women Deacons or Priests?
(some churches).

Do you agree with this?

Women should have the same opportunities in church and society.

 

[GodsGrace]

I can have equal amounts of water and gasoline but they arent the same. I have equal amounts of water in a plastic bucket to the amount of gasoline in a can. Not the same. The value of equal amounts of water and gasoline are not the same. Youre talking about what you think is fair. That's an entirely different matter.

I feel like we're getting into philosophy....
but I looked up equal: See the difference between B1 and B2

Would you say that women in the church setting would be explained better by B2?


equal
adjective

us

/ˈiː.kwəl/ uk

/ˈiː.kwəl/

equal adjective (SAME)​

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B1
the same in amount, number, or size:
One quart is equal to two pints.
equal in One box may look bigger than the other, but in fact they are roughly (= almost) equal in volume.
Thesaurus: synonyms, antonyms, and examples
exactly like each other

• the sameI have the same dress as her.
• identicalThe employees all wore identical blue shirts.
• indistinguishableThe counterfeit certificate was so good it was indistinguishable from the real thing.
• equalFour groups of ten is equal to two groups of twenty.

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B1
the same in importance and deserving the same treatment:
All people are equal, deserving the same rights as each other.
equal pay/status They have a long way to go before they achieve equal pay/status for men and women.
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SMART Vocabulary: related words and phrases

equal adjective (ABLE)​

[ after verb ] formal
skilled or brave enough for a difficult duty or piece of work:
prove equal to It's a challenging job but I'm sure you'll prove equal to it.
equal to the task Do you think he's equal to the task ahead of him?
SMART Vocabulary: related words and phrases



equal
noun [ C ]

us

/ˈiː.kwəl/ uk

/ˈiː.kwəl/

B2
someone or something that has the same importance as someone or something else and deserves the same treatment:
The good thing about her as a boss is that she treats us all as equals.
Throughout her marriage she never considered her husband as her intellectual equal.
have no equal As an all-around athlete he has no equal (= no-one else is as good).

 

[GodsGrace]

Pretty much what you said. Women should have the same opportunities in church and society.

OK. Agreed.

But they don't.

The question becomes: In the church setting, is this good or bad?

Plus, I think we're off topic.