Bible Study: The Gospel is in the Torah

[GracePeace]

The Christian who commits sin is no longer justified, and is returned to condemnation, though they are still "in their faith"?

Maybe I don't understand what you mean by "not . . . to be removed from their faith", do you mean that they continue in "saving faith?"

Much love!

Just to clarify, simplify, I agree with your simple "Christ alone" profession--the other details do present interesting questions, but nothing that is discovered there can change the very basic "Christ alone" profession.

 

[marks]

All about it, pls take some time to read.

Much love in Christ.

I have read it, please be specific.

Much love!

 

[soberxp]

I have read it, please be specific.

Much love!

No need for specifics—I think this is extremely well-said and absolutely correct.

It’s by far the most perfect post I’ve ever come across regarding this topic.

Amen.

 

[Episkopos]

@Episkopos let's see if I have a clue:

1)wicked-destiny is lake of fire.no attempt at a walk with God

The wicked: Neither loved God nor men. Fully selfish motivation, wicked behaviour. Destroyed in the lake of fire

2)unrighteous-destiny is outer darkness. attempted to walk with God but could not enter in,

Actually "The Filthy": Claimed to love God but took His name in vain...hypocrisy, mixture and unholy. Unteachable, unruly and obstinate...no humility or fear of the Lord. Spots on the feasts of charity. Empty clouds, no rain. Outer darkness forever, There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

3)Righteous-(meek)will inherit the earth. walked with God on a human level

Yes....God loves the righteous..humble and God-fearing. These are ACCEPTED with God.

4)Holy-will inherit heaven, walked with God and entered the perfected walk of Zion

Yes, The elect who ran a higher race of faith and developed a character like that of Christ up until the full stature in Christ. Like the righteous but much deeper. Intimacy with God and suffered for His name. The saints will rule over the righteous in the nations from the holy city....and the increase of the government of the Lord will never end.


:) <><

 

[Episkopos]

Heb 11:4
By FAITH Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

This has been covered...that in the OT God justifies (deems to be righteous) by faith OR/and by works. But you are missing the fact that God justified Abel as RIGHTEOUS...and not "imputed the righteousness of God to him" . Abel was righteous as a man....just like many others. And this is where modern evangelicalism falls apart right away. For the "other" gospel to succeed, God has to condemn all who don't adopt the religion of Christianity. The verse doesn't say that Abel was declared righteous by having certain beliefs. That is my point of contention with you concerning faith...as in..."you have to be a Christian believer before you can do something good". I don't think you have a firm grasp on what biblical faith is. Faith KNOWS GOD....either directly (the faith OF Christ) or intuitively as we see in the OT and in other religions.

I think a major problem with your understanding as a whole is a lack of knowing what faith actually is. It throws everything out of whack and makes you ignore the major weight of scripture because you are blinded by your "viewpoint". But so be it... many will be in grave error.

The truth is that the righteous actually offer a BETTER sacrifice than the religiously affiliated ones. They DO rightly as opposed to just agree to or claim to. Look at the whole verse. Look at the WHOLE counsel of God.

Proper DOING is proof of proper faith. Again, on the righteousness level...by intuition. On the holiness level by SEEING the kingdom realm.

Faith SEES and is not blind. It is the evidence (in experience) of the unseen realm.

You know, the very first verse of this chapter tells us what faith is as I’ve pointed out before in previous conversation with you:

Heb 11:1-2
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
For by it the elders obtained a good report.

What you disdainfully call imagination and “hopium”. God forgive you.

The "hopium" is based on religious beliefs....not faith. Faith becomes actual evidence through experience. Read the verse again. Faith brings intimacy with God like we read in the bible. All fakes to this truth will be rejected as ..."I never KNEW you"

People can claim what they want....but I correct those who try TEACHING falsehoods that get people cast into outer darkness.

The ONLY assurance we have of salvation is in being joined to Christ in Zion now...to walk in His resurrection life and power. When we are translated into the kingdom realm we can KNOW we are "saved" at the level of the gospel of the kingdom.

Otherwise the fear of the Lord and a broken humility is the wiser choice

 

[shepherdsword]

This has been covered...that in the OT God justifies (deems to be righteous) by faith OR/and by works. But you are missing the fact that God justified Abel as RIGHTEOUS...and not "imputed the righteousness of God to him" . Abel was righteous as a man....just like many others. And this is where modern evangelicalism falls apart right away. For the "other" gospel to succeed, God has to condemn all who don't adopt the religion of Christianity. The verse doesn't say that Abel was declared righteous by having certain beliefs. That is my point of contention with you concerning faith...as in..."you have to be a Christian believer before you can do something good". I don't think you have a firm grasp on what biblical faith is. Faith KNOWS GOD....either directly (the faith OF Christ) or intuitively as we see in the OT and in other religions.

I think a major problem with your understanding as a whole is a lack of knowing what faith actually is. It throws everything out of whack and makes you ignore the major weight of scripture because you are blinded by your "viewpoint". But so be it... many will be in grave error.

The truth is that the righteous actually offer a BETTER sacrifice than the religiously affiliated ones. They DO rightly as opposed to just agree to or claim to. Look at the whole verse. Look at the WHOLE counsel of God.

Proper DOING is proof of proper faith. Again, on the righteousness level...by intuition. On the holiness level by SEEING the kingdom realm.

Faith SEES and is not blind. It is the evidence (in experience) of the unseen realm.



The "hopium" is based on religious beliefs....not faith. Faith becomes actual evidence through experience. Read the verse again. Faith brings intimacy with God like we read in the bible. All fakes to this truth will be rejected as ..."I never KNEW you"

People can claim what they want....but I correct those who try TEACHING falsehoods that get people cast into outer darkness.

The ONLY assurance we have of salvation is in being joined to Christ in Zion now...to walk in His resurrection life and power. When we are translated into the kingdom realm we can KNOW we are "saved" at the level of the gospel of the kingdom.

Otherwise the fear of the Lord and a broken humility is the wiser choice

Jesus said "I am the way, the truth and the life, no man comes to the Father but by me" We sometimes think Jesus is making a point of validation about a religion in His name. However, what if he is not? Not saying "you must believe in me a certain way" BUT..rather saying "no man comes to the Father unless I decide, unless I let him, unless I approve him"? In other words "no man comes to the Father but by me because I am the one who makes the decision"

That would give new meaning to the Jericho road parable. The ones with the correct doctrine walked around the bleeding and dying man with distain. It was the heretical Samaritan who treated the man with love and so fulfilled the will of the Father.

We need to take heed and consider such things.

 

[Episkopos]

Jesus said "I am the way, the truth and the life, no man comes to the Father but by me" We sometimes think Jesus is making a point of validation about a religion in His name. However, what if he is not? Not saying "you must believe in me a certain way" BUT..rather saying "no man comes to the Father unless I decide, unless I let him, unless I approve him"? In other words "no man comes to the Father but by me because I am the one who makes the decision"

That would give new meaning to the Jericho road parable. The ones with the correct doctrine walked around the bleeding and dying man with distain. It was the heretical Samaritan who treated the man with love and so fulfilled the will of the Father.

We need to take heed and consider such things.

Exactly. Good one Shep! :) Not a lot to approve on this thread otherwise. Not a lot to uplift the inner man.

 

[Lizbeth]

This has been covered...that in the OT God justifies (deems to be righteous) by faith OR/and by works. But you are missing the fact that God justified Abel as RIGHTEOUS...and not "imputed the righteousness of God to him" . Abel was righteous as a man....just like many others. And this is where modern evangelicalism falls apart right away. For the "other" gospel to succeed, God has to condemn all who don't adopt the religion of Christianity. The verse doesn't say that Abel was declared righteous by having certain beliefs. That is my point of contention with you concerning faith...as in..."you have to be a Christian believer before you can do something good". I don't think you have a firm grasp on what biblical faith is. Faith KNOWS GOD....either directly (the faith OF Christ) or intuitively as we see in the OT and in other religions.

I think a major problem with your understanding as a whole is a lack of knowing what faith actually is. It throws everything out of whack and makes you ignore the major weight of scripture because you are blinded by your "viewpoint". But so be it... many will be in grave error.

The truth is that the righteous actually offer a BETTER sacrifice than the religiously affiliated ones. They DO rightly as opposed to just agree to or claim to. Look at the whole verse. Look at the WHOLE counsel of God.

Proper DOING is proof of proper faith. Again, on the righteousness level...by intuition. On the holiness level by SEEING the kingdom realm.

Faith SEES and is not blind. It is the evidence (in experience) of the unseen realm.



The "hopium" is based on religious beliefs....not faith. Faith becomes actual evidence through experience. Read the verse again. Faith brings intimacy with God like we read in the bible. All fakes to this truth will be rejected as ..."I never KNEW you"

People can claim what they want....but I correct those who try TEACHING falsehoods that get people cast into outer darkness.

The ONLY assurance we have of salvation is in being joined to Christ in Zion now...to walk in His resurrection life and power. When we are translated into the kingdom realm we can KNOW we are "saved" at the level of the gospel of the kingdom.

Otherwise the fear of the Lord and a broken humility is the wiser choice

I'm afraid you are the one who doesn't know what faith is.......that is what joins us with Christ and makes us one spirit with Him via the Holy Spirit....and you presume to assume that everyone who questions and challenges you don't have experiences which confirm our faith and that we don't "do rightly". You're confusing faith with a mere head belief, and sadly your gospel is not THE gospel, for which you will have to answer to God. Faith is what your gospel attempts to undermine and shipwreck....the cornerstone and foundation of our faith UPON WHICH we are to build. I'm reminded that there are false belief systems ruled by other spirits which try to achieve a state of perfection without the foundation of Christ.

 

[Lizbeth]

Jesus said "I am the way, the truth and the life, no man comes to the Father but by me" We sometimes think Jesus is making a point of validation about a religion in His name. However, what if he is not? Not saying "you must believe in me a certain way" BUT..rather saying "no man comes to the Father unless I decide, unless I let him, unless I approve him"? In other words "no man comes to the Father but by me because I am the one who makes the decision"

That would give new meaning to the Jericho road parable. The ones with the correct doctrine walked around the bleeding and dying man with distain. It was the heretical Samaritan who treated the man with love and so fulfilled the will of the Father.

We need to take heed and consider such things.

It means no man can be reconciled to the Father except through faith in Christ and receiving Him, His Spirit.....Christ IN us is the hope of glory. We must be careful of adding meanings to His word that He doesn't intend. Epi has people coming to the Father without Christ, because they outwardly appear righteous and humble. Whereas the scripture says if you have not the Son, you have not the Father either.

The Samaritan parable was NOT teaching contrary to this. Again we must be careful of adding to His word.

 

[Episkopos]

I'm afraid you are the one who doesn't know what faith is.......that is what joins us with Christ and makes us one spirit with Him via the Holy Spirit

In theory? How do you know that your faith joins you to Christ? You claim to be one spirit with Him...how do you know? Is it because you read about it? Or do you enter into the realm of the kingdom to walk as He walked in the Spirit that is fully holy.

This is where honesty comes to bear.

....and you presume to assume that everyone who questions and challenges you don't have experiences which confirm our faith and that we don't "do rightly".

No, I ask people who make claims to make a sober-minded assessment of their situation minus the indoctrination. What is being experienced that makes people claim what they do?

Can people get drunk on ginger ale? No. But they might claim to be.

You're confusing faith with a mere head belief, and sadly your gospel is not THE gospel, for which you will have to answer to God.

This is about your therapy, not mine. I am the one questioning the accuracy of faith. Why do I do that? To save people from an indoctrination of condemnation.

Faith is what your gospel attempts to undermine and shipwreck....the cornerstone and foundation of our faith UPON WHICH we are to build.

Again...I'm speaking of a faith that opens up the unseen world. What I undermine is a false naming and claiming religious version that itself undermines the truth of the gospel...the POWER of the gospel.

The point is to test the spirits. And people who are unstable will be shaken by that....but the point is to get things right BEFORE judgment. Why defend one's alleged standing with God by ignoring the warnings in the bible? No warnings/no glory.

I'm reminded that there are false belief systems ruled by other spirits which try to achieve a state of perfection without the foundation of Christ.

This is incoherent. It is other spirits that make one believe they are something they are not. A person who walks in the Spirit...or has done so, is not put off by being questioned in their testimony. Is it the questioning that offends you? It shouldn't IF you had a testimony to share...it would be an OPPORTUNITY to share the miraculous power of God us-ward who believe. Paul states this. I am using the NT standard as laid out by Paul...AND Jesus.

My questioning is based on wisdom, knowledge and understanding. None of these are a threat to faith. They are however a mortal threat to religion and ideological beliefs.

 

[amigo de christo]

It means no man can be reconciled to the Father except through faith in Christ and receiving Him, His Spirit.....Christ IN us is the hope of glory. We must be careful of adding meanings to His word that He doesn't intend. Epi has people coming to the Father without Christ, because they outwardly appear righteous and humble. Whereas the scripture says if you have not the Son, you have not the Father either.

The Samaritan parable was NOT teaching contrary to this. Again we must be careful of adding to His word.

MANY now do that sister . many within even christendom
believe other religoins be coming to GOD . ITS ALL A RELIGOIN of UNBELIEF .
But without FAITH IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO PLEASE HIM .
We got a well cloaked serpent who has long long been at work
in order to remove the YE MUST BELIEVE IN JESUS to be saved part .
ONLY the serpent would ever had dared to do such a thing .
But beware for he and his many co workers can make this seem as though ITS THE LOVE of GOD
But the sheep know better . SEEING GOD IS LOVE and DESIRES the death of none
HE TESTIFIED OF THE SON by WHOM if a person beleives They shall be saved .
The serpent wants UNBELEIF because all those are graved . HE has no love for humanity
but unto those whose love be the flesh , HE HAS SEDUCED THEM into the great lie that will damn them all .
And though he calleth it love , OH its but death .

 

[Marvelloustime]

MANY now do that sister . many within even christendom
believe other religoins be coming to GOD . ITS ALL A RELIGOIN of UNBELIEF .
But without FAITH IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO PLEASE HIM .
We got a well cloaked serpent who has long long been at work
in order to remove the YE MUST BELIEVE IN JESUS to be saved part .
ONLY the serpent would ever had dared to do such a thing .
But beware for he and his many co workers can make this seem as though ITS THE LOVE of GOD
But the sheep know better . SEEING GOD IS LOVE and DESIRES the death of none
HE TESTIFIED OF THE SON by WHOM if a person beleives They shall be saved .
The serpent wants UNBELEIF because all those are graved . HE has no love for humanity
but unto those whose love be the flesh , HE HAS SEDUCED THEM into the great lie that will damn them all .
And though he calleth it love , OH its but death .

@amigo de christo

 

[Lizbeth]

In theory? How do you know that your faith joins you to Christ? You claim to be one spirit with Him...how do you know? Is it because you read about it? Or do you enter into the realm of the kingdom to walk as He walked in the Spirit that is fully holy.

This is where honesty comes to bear.


No, I ask people who make claims to make a sober-minded assessment of their situation minus the indoctrination. What is being experienced that makes people claim what they do?

Can people get drunk on ginger ale? No. But they might claim to be.


This is about your therapy, not mine. I am the one questioning the accuracy of faith. Why do I do that? To save people from an indoctrination of condemnation.


Again...I'm speaking of a faith that opens up the unseen world. What I undermine is a false naming and claiming religious version that itself undermines the truth of the gospel...the POWER of the gospel.

The point is to test the spirits. And people who are unstable will be shaken by that....but the point is to get things right BEFORE judgment. Why defend one's alleged standing with God by ignoring the warnings in the bible? No warnings/no glory.

This is incoherent. It is other spirits that make one believe they are something they are not. A person who walks in the Spirit...or has done so, is not put off by being questioned in their testimony. Is it the questioning that offends you? It shouldn't IF you had a testimony to share...it would be an OPPORTUNITY to share the miraculous power of God us-ward who believe. Paul states this. I am using the NT standard as laid out by Paul...AND Jesus.

My questioning is based on wisdom, knowledge and understanding. None of these are a threat to faith. They are however a mortal threat to religion and ideological beliefs.

Oh I'm testing the spirits, thanks be to God. People can sure have spiritual experiences that are not of God and HIS Spirit. Such as Hindus and Buddhists and new agers have, as they aspire for perfection and holiness without the foundation of Christ. And of course they are being deceived. It is born of pride and the devil would think nothing of seducing Christians to the same thing using the name of Christ as bait.

Christ IN us, His holiness, perfection and righteousness, is IN us. THAT is the foundation and cornerstone which your teachings deny and undermine. The journey is one of essentially endeavouring and seeking to reveal/unveil Him, His spirit and nature, in our vessel as we die to our old man....all creation waits for the sons of God to be REVEALED.

 

[Episkopos]

It means no man can be reconciled to the Father except through faith in Christ and receiving Him, His Spirit.....Christ IN us is the hope of glory. We must be careful of adding meanings to His word that He doesn't intend. Epi has people coming to the Father without Christ,

This is false witness...as usual. The bible says that the righteous are SCARCELY saved. These don't have access to the Father. You are arguing against the bible and railing against the truth you hate...is all.

No one comes to the Father but by Christ. Jesus is the Mediator and the way to the Father.

I have said this many times...but slander is the only option for those who can't tolerate a sound doctrine.

Your beef is with God who is far more merciful than you are.

I state what is in the bible...but you refuse most verses I post... not because they are unbiblical...but because they undermine a false apprehension of the ones you do affirm.

 

[Episkopos]

because they outwardly appear righteous and humble. Whereas the scripture says if you have not the Son, you have not the Father either.

This is false again. The Samaritan didn't just appear to be righteous and humble. Again, you read in your own bent and lack of character into others...by mischaracterization. There are many people in the world who are far more humble and god-fearing than you. That should humble you...but it doesn't.

The Samaritan parable was NOT teaching contrary to this. Again we must be careful of adding to His word.

Adding to His word...??? this is rich.

 

[Lizbeth]

This is false witness...as usual. The bible says that the righteous are SCARCELY saved. These don't have access to the Father. You are arguing against the bible and railing against the truth you hate...is all.

No on comes to the Father but by Christ. Jesus is the Mediator and the way to the Father.

I have said this many times...but slander is the only option for those who can't tolerate a sound doctrine.

Your beef is with God who is far more merciful than you are.

Well it is GOD who says, If ye have not the Son, ye have not the Father either. Your false gospel has people being "accepted" by God without having received the Son within them. That is HOW He is the mediator and Way to the Father.......Christ IN us. There is no other way. That IS His great mercy.....there is no greater mercy.....He sacrificed His only Son to make THAT Way possible.

And His arm is not too short to save, everyone foreknown by God and appointed to salvation will receive Christ before they die, whether through evangelizing or by His direct communication with them in dream or vision or voice etc.

 

[Lizbeth]

This is false again. The Samaritan didn't just appear to be righteous and humble. Again, you read in your own bent and lack of character into others...by mischaracterization. There are many people in the world who are far more humble and god-fearing than you. That should humble you...but it doesn't.

Adding to His word...??? this is rich.

Except that the point of the good Samaritan parable was not about salvation.....there is nothing there about the good Samaritan being saved unto eternal life. The point of it was a lesson about hypocrisy, nothing more than that. And a good lesson it is, but it's not a teaching about salvation. Someone may attract the favour of God, like Cornelius........but they still need Christ in them to be saved. God went to to a lot of trouble to see that Cornelius heard and received the gospel.

 

[Episkopos]

Well it is GOD who says, If ye have not the Son, ye have not the Father either. Your false gospel has people being "accepted" by God without having received the Son within them.

You are reading the bible wrong. No one said that the righteous have the Father. That is for the saints. And your lies are SO BLATANT. You are calling Peter a liar? He is the one who says that people are ACCEPTED by BEHAVIOUR...namely DOING or WORKING righteousness and fearing God.

Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

Try being honest just one time. I didn't write the bible...but you are here to slander the bible and speak lies. Just admit that you have NO IDEA what the gospel is...

The meek inherit the earth....they are NOT joined to the Father. It doesn't say...only the Christian meek. People can claim to be Christians until the cows come home. That doesn't change God's judgment.

And you are writing these slanders and lies to impress the others here ...the pack. And their egos are aligned with yours.

That is HOW He is the mediator and Way to the Father.......Christ IN us. There is no other way. That IS His great mercy.....there is no greater mercy.....He sacrificed His only Son to make THAT Way possible.

Again, you are speaking in theory regarding how you appropriate what's in the bible for yourself.

And His arm is not too short to save, everyone foreknown by God and appointed to salvation will receive Christ before they die, whether through evangelizing or by His direct communication with them in dream or vision or voice etc.

You are making God jump through your hoops. God gives visions to those who He is calling into holiness...not just into being able to claim a saved status and then to condemn others.

Election is for those who are being conformed to Christ in holiness and character....not just for salvation. Salvation is for MORE people than the elect.

 

[Episkopos]

Oh I'm testing the spirits, thanks be to God. People can sure have spiritual experiences that are not of God and HIS Spirit. Such as Hindus and Buddhists and new agers have, as they aspire for perfection and holiness without the foundation of Christ. And of course they are being deceived. It is born of pride and the devil would think nothing of seducing Christians to the same thing using the name of Christ as bait.

Christ IN us, His holiness, perfection and righteousness, is IN us. THAT is the foundation and cornerstone which your teachings deny and undermine. The journey is one of essentially endeavouring and seeking to reveal/unveil Him, His spirit and nature, in our vessel as we die to our old man....all creation waits for the sons of God to be REVEALED.

You condemn yourself...

You speak in exact error...and hypocritically. You claim to be holy without holiness. You claim to be one spirit with God without any testimony. And you then claim that any experience you haven't had must be from another spirit. How convenient.

What you slander with shows you up. I never said that people of other religions are justified by visions...I said they are justified by their DEEDS...just as the bible attests to.

So your lack of both experience AND deeds shows you up as a pretender...and a terrible slanderer. And your claims become laughable.

 

[Episkopos]

Here is very simple wisdom that is fully beyond the understanding of many here.

We are not responsible for what happens to us (good or bad) but we are responsible of what we do with it (whether good or bad).