70th Week and Day of the Lord are separate events.

[covenantee]

"Seventy weeks are determined." I missed that. Nice. For years, I accepted the "orphaned" week theory. God's trick is for it to not really matter. Even if you think this is the leftover week from the last time and not the last week of the second time, we are still on the same page.

It's the last week of the first and only time.

 

[covenantee]

The final week in the first go around was from 27 A.D. to 33 A.D. The Crucifixion is widely agreed upon happening in 33 A.D. He will make a second trip, so there can be a second 70 Weeks, one for Messiah, one for prince to come. One little coma in Daniel 9:25 and this would be a thing.

Jesus was crucified in the midst of the week (Daniel 9:27), placing the crucifixion in 30 AD.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The final week in the first go around was from 27 A.D. to 33 A.D. The Crucifixion is widely agreed upon happening in 33 A.D. He will make a second trip, so there can be a second 70 Weeks, one for Messiah, one for prince to come. One little coma in Daniel 9:25 and this would be a thing.

Where is a second 70 weeks referenced in scripture (besides the 70 weeks referenced in Daniel 9:24-27)?

 

[jeffweeder]

Where is a second 70 weeks referenced in scripture (besides the 70 weeks referenced in Daniel 9:24-27)?

Surely Jesus or Paul, Peter etc would have said something about it- if it be true.

 

[quietthinker]

Surely Jesus or Paul, Peter etc would have said something about it- if it be true.

When one's cards are laid on the table and an enquiry is made as was Daniel's situation in Daniel 9. When an answer is forthcoming, as it was and a time period announced in response, only those on the run (those who have something to hide or an agenda to hide something) or the downright deluded, will break up the continuum ie, remove the last week of the 70 week prophecy from its continuity.

 

[jeffweeder]

The most holy place is still supervised by Jordan and Jews are not allowed to pray there.

Jesus anointed the most Holy Place with a new and living way through his atonement.


Hebrews 9:24
For Christ did not enter into a holy place made with hands, a mere copy of the true one, but [He entered] into heaven itself, now to appear in the very presence of God on our behalf;

1. Hebrews 10:19
   

   A New and Living Way​

   Therefore, believers, since we have confidence andfull freedom to enter the Holy Place [the place where God dwells] by [means of] the blood of Jesus,
   
   
2. Hebrews 10:20
   by this new and living way which He initiated and opened for us through the veil [as in the Holy of Holies], that is, through His flesh,

There will be a Second Advent to finish off the reasons for Christ crucifixion.

That would be the age of the Gospel of grace, as Jesus has completely atoned for the sins of the world.

Gods call to repentance now...,

30 Therefore God overlooked and disregarded the former ages of ignorance; but now He commands all people everywhere to repent [that is, to change their old way of thinking, to regret their past sins, and to seek God’s purpose for their lives], 31 because He has set a day when He will judge the inhabited world in righteousness by a Man whom He has appointed and destined for that task, and He has provided credible proof to everyone by raising Him from the dead.”

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Surely Jesus or Paul, Peter etc would have said something about it- if it be true.

For certain. But, they did not. And neither did Daniel or anyone else. As you may have noticed, many people on this forum like to just make things up that aren't taught anywhere in scripture. It's sad to see.

 

[HealthyShape]

Agree with you but the details are truly amazing.

But highly speculative.

1. The book of Daniel is not well preserved, there are many different textual versions. Just Greek manuscripts have like three different versions.

2. Both Hebrew and Greek words and sentences in there are ambiguous and can be translated and understood in many ways, which creates a lot of confusion.

3. And on the top of that, the prophetic language as such is ambiguous even in English (who could know that for example the abomination of desolation was specifically about Roman legions until Jesus said that?)

Trying to decipher imprecise ambiguous data leads to the much confusion we can see when people talk about Daniel. Or about the book of Revelation, for example. I do not think that the frequent enmity, personal attacks and endless arguments that come with it are worth the speculation.

It would be amazing if done in a friendly and academic manner, which is hard to do in online forums.

 

[HealthyShape]

Please don't limit scripture to one meaning. You can be symbolically correct, and an end times narrative can still be correct. "Already but not yet." God has a way of providing examples ahead of time. Look at Joseph.

The New Testament (NT) does not teach anywhere that it will happen twice with a huge gap between the two fulfillments. Neither the book of Daniel teaches such thing.

And why just twice, why not thrice or 100 times? The number is built upon nothing solid. It is like saying that Jesus can return multiple times. Technically, He can. But there is no such teaching in the NT.

 

[Dave Watchman]

I'm not trying to stir up trouble with you, but my system only works with certain dates. And I may be all wrong.

There's no worry here Steve. You can't stir up any trouble with me. I may be wrong too, but I'm sure I'm not. Because the dates of the two decrees which I have match with lock fit precision with the 7 and the 62 weeks. There are two different modern day commands to restore Jerusalem, 1535, and 1969, these are rock solid. There is no way these could have been by random chance. And it's not even just these things, there are multiple other prophetic time periods which connect and confirm. It's very spooky actually. It would be more fun to think you are right, than I am right. Because if I am right, it has to be happening now, not two years from now.

My system has these dates: the plaques on the mount are dated 1537, the pandemic arrived 2020,

Yes the plaques on the mount are dated 1537, but that is not the actual decree, or the command to restore Jerusalem. 1537, like the 1536 date chiseled into nearly a dozen of the sabils in the Old City of Jerusalem are the years that the buildings were commemorated, or dedicated. Remember, it is from the going forth of the command itself, that the count of heptads begin. It's not the construction, or the completion of the project, it's the order, the command, the decree itself.

“Know therefore and understand,

That from the going forth of the command​

To restore and build Jerusalem​

Until Messiah the Prince,
There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks;

the Abraham accords were signed in 2020,

That's remarkable. I have no doubt many things were happening in 2020. I believe it began two years earlier in 2018/2019.

"And this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.​

I believe that end came in 2018, on North Sentinel Island.

Right now, along with the timing of the 3 interstellar object visitations, John Chau, and Charlie Kirk appear to specifically have been placed as Bookends, framing in a specific time..

10/7/23 was the Abomination.

Me and a couple other guys figured out the Abomination on another forum. It was the most exciting time I had ever spent on a forum thread. It was over the span of one week, from one Saturday to another. I was up and down and walking the floor. I thought I had made the biggest discovery in Bible Prophecy. One of the other guys I think was Russian Orthodox or something. He took a fit when we found a USA connection. We found the 1290th day terminus with the "darkened sun" in January 2019. Sometimes these forums can be virtual idea factories. Everyone can add their input. We have such a great cloud of witnesses, many disciplines and backgrounds to draw from. Better than one guy talking his book, or doing his video.

I do like Dr. Christian though, I don't agree with his timeline 100%, but he is in the correct ballpark. There are two separate sets of 70 weeks, we are living in the last one of them. It is what it is. It's here. And Christian is a darn nice guy. I can tell he loves the Lord.

1535 blows up my system--don't know what to say.

I know. My deal is the Newton deal. I'm on the Newton team. It's hard to hear what I say because it means it has to be happening now, not two years from now.

I don't really want to write too long of a note here, but there's something Widener missed. Newton mentioned it in his note. He suspected the 7 week interval was specific to the second coming. He called it the compass of a Jubilee. He was correct. The two modem day decrees were a reverse mirror image of the first coming of Messiah. The 7 and the 62 are switched around, with the 7 weeks creating a new 50th year, just prior to the last week.

This indicates one of those verses in Daniel 9 was specific to the second coming only, in the two sets of 70 weeks. That's why the "weeks' were switched around. The other verse 26, was specific to the first visitation, and differentiates itself from the second set of 70 weeks, as occurring after the "62 weeks".

My system has a date to watch for: 4/19/27.

Just be careful Steve. Be careful that your system doesn't become like that other guy's "charts". Where our "system", or our "charts", might grow and become bigger, more important to us than the truth itself. This is where we are in danger of making our "understanding" itself become as self righteousness, like the Pharisees did in the first Visitation of Messiah. They made themselves the decider of truth. When the actual Messiah didn't fit the image they had placed on the "chart" of their erroneous understanding.

Scripture does not say we cannot predict when the antichrist will appear, and Paul says it is necessary for us to identify him before rapture.

I believe he has been here for some time, he is here now, everybody sees him, but he is not currently being recognized for who and what he really is. When he is "revealed" to all the world for who he is, we could be just hours, or minutes away, from the actual second coming. It's very difficult to get a specific time interval from the Pauline Epistles.

This time around, we are watching for headlines in the news we cannot miss, but events are more subtle.

Exactly.

I even read people on the Agnostic news forums ask: "is any of this stuff Biblical?

But we agree prophesy is occurring in front of our eyes.

Exactly.

That is the exact phase used by a guy on our old Abomination thread. It's happening right in front of our eyes, right before our eyes.

Remember how the Pharisees did not recognize the Messiah because they wanted Superman, not Jesus.

Exactly.

This is exactly what Christian Widener is doing correctly. He is putting the prophetic time period first. Put the time periods of prophecy first, before what we think is our already established understanding. And then asking what could all these thing be?, If they are happening now?

This is where price action makes for market commentary. Here is where we trade the charts, do not trade a story. There's too many stories out there. Like how the pilot trusts, and flies by his instrumentation, when poor visibility precludes the use of GFR. We see through the glass dimly.

Our technical analysis, our charts and our instrumentation as Bible People, are in those prophetic time periods found in Daniel and Revelation. Show me where the 7 and the 62 weeks are, and like the three wise men, I can show when to be looking for His star in the East. Let me find the 5 months of Revelation 9, and I will be able to show you that the mark of the beast began already in 2018, because those 5 months of Revelation 9 only had an impact on the men who had already taken the mark of the beast. It didn't hurt anyone who had the Seal of God.

If we can figure out where are in those time periods, the Two Witnesses, the Antichrist, and the Mark of the Beast, among other things, has to be happening now, but were not what we thought they were.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I may be wrong too, but I'm sure I'm not.

 

[SteveSmid]

‘Can we discuss some key facts about Daniel’s 70 weeks?


“Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), Matthew 24:15

Daniel's description can be read as more than one event. The first event on 10/7/23 sets up the antichrist standing in the holy place 1290 days later on 4/19/27. Yes, this sets a date, but it's for the revealing of the antichrist. Paul said this must happen before we are out of here, so having him appear on a certain date makes sense--we will be sure of it.

 

[covenantee]

Daniel's description can be read as more than one event. The first event on 10/7/23 sets up the antichrist standing in the holy place 1290 days later on 4/19/27. Yes, this sets a date, but it's for the revealing of the antichrist. Paul said this must happen before we are out of here, so having him appear on a certain date makes sense--we will be sure of it.

There's no antichrist in Daniel 9 or anywhere else in the OT. The word does not exist in OT Hebrew or Aramaic.

The abomination of desolation referred to in Matthew 24:15 is identified in the parallel synoptic verse of Luke 21:20.

It was the Roman armies, who destroyed Jerusalem in 70 AD.

 

[SteveSmid]

There's no worry here Steve. You can't stir up any trouble with me. I may be wrong too, but I'm sure I'm not. Because the dates of the two decrees which I have match with lock fit precision with the 7 and the 62 weeks. There are two different modern day commands to restore Jerusalem, 1535, and 1969, these are rock solid. There is no way these could have been by random chance. And it's not even just these things, there are multiple other prophetic time periods which connect and confirm. It's very spooky actually. It would be more fun to think you are right, than I am right. Because if I am right, it has to be happening now, not two years from now.


Yes the plaques on the mount are dated 1537, but that is not the actual decree, or the command to restore Jerusalem. 1537, like the 1536 date chiseled into nearly a dozen of the sabils in the Old City of Jerusalem are the years that the buildings were commemorated, or dedicated. Remember, it is from the going forth of the command itself, that the count of heptads begin. It's not the construction, or the completion of the project, it's the order, the command, the decree itself.

“Know therefore and understand,

That from the going forth of the command​

To restore and build Jerusalem​

Until Messiah the Prince,
There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks;


That's remarkable. I have no doubt many things were happening in 2020. I believe it began two years earlier in 2018/2019.

"And this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.​

I believe that end came in 2018, on North Sentinel Island.

Right now, along with the timing of the 3 interstellar object visitations, John Chau, and Charlie Kirk appear to specifically have been placed as Bookends, framing in a specific time..


Me and a couple other guys figured out the Abomination on another forum. It was the most exciting time I had ever spent on a forum thread. It was over the span of one week, from one Saturday to another. I was up and down and walking the floor. I thought I had made the biggest discovery in Bible Prophecy. One of the other guys I think was Russian Orthodox or something. He took a fit when we found a USA connection. We found the 1290th day terminus with the "darkened sun" in January 2019. Sometimes these forums can be virtual idea factories. Everyone can add their input. We have such a great cloud of witnesses, many disciplines and backgrounds to draw from. Better than one guy talking his book, or doing his video.

I do like Dr. Christian though, I don't agree with his timeline 100%, but he is in the correct ballpark. There are two separate sets of 70 weeks, we are living in the last one of them. It is what it is. It's here. And Christian is a darn nice guy. I can tell he loves the Lord.


I know. My deal is the Newton deal. I'm on the Newton team. It's hard to hear what I say because it means it has to be happening now, not two years from now.

I don't really want to write too long of a note here, but there's something Widener missed. Newton mentioned it in his note. He suspected the 7 week interval was specific to the second coming. He called it the compass of a Jubilee. He was correct. The two modem day decrees were a reverse mirror image of the first coming of Messiah. The 7 and the 62 are switched around, with the 7 weeks creating a new 50th year, just prior to the last week.

This indicates one of those verses in Daniel 9 was specific to the second coming only, in the two sets of 70 weeks. That's why the "weeks' were switched around. The other verse 26, was specific to the first visitation, and differentiates itself from the second set of 70 weeks, as occurring after the "62 weeks".


Just be careful Steve. Be careful that your system doesn't become like that other guy's "charts". Where our "system", or our "charts", might grow and become bigger, more important to us than the truth itself. This is where we are in danger of making our "understanding" itself become as self righteousness, like the Pharisees did in the first Visitation of Messiah. They made themselves the decider of truth. When the actual Messiah didn't fit the image they had placed on the "chart" of their erroneous understanding.


I believe he has been here for some time, he is here now, everybody sees him, but he is not currently being recognized for who and what he really is. When he is "revealed" to all the world for who he is, we could be just hours, or minutes away, from the actual second coming. It's very difficult to get a specific time interval from the Pauline Epistles.


Exactly.

I even read people on the Agnostic news forums ask: "is any of this stuff Biblical?

Exactly.

That is the exact phase used by a guy on our old Abomination thread. It's happening right in front of our eyes, right before our eyes.


Exactly.

This is exactly what Christian Widener is doing correctly. He is putting the prophetic time period first. Put the time periods of prophecy first, before what we think is our already established understanding. And then asking what could all these thing be?, If they are happening now?

This is where price action makes for market commentary. Here is where we trade the charts, do not trade a story. There's too many stories out there. Like how the pilot trusts, and flies by his instrumentation, when poor visibility precludes the use of GFR. We see through the glass dimly.

Our technical analysis, our charts and our instrumentation as Bible People, are in those prophetic time periods found in Daniel and Revelation. Show me where the 7 and the 62 weeks are, and like the three wise men, I can show when to be looking for His star in the East. Let me find the 5 months of Revelation 9, and I will be able to show you that the mark of the beast began already in 2018, because those 5 months of Revelation 9 only had an impact on the men who had already taken the mark of the beast. It didn't hurt anyone who had the Seal of God.

If we can figure out where are in those time periods, the Two Witnesses, the Antichrist, and the Mark of the Beast, among other things, has to be happening now, but were not what we thought they were.

Dave: I would be interested in an outline, even though you caution against it. Could you do a list of general points? For example, what was your Abomination of Desolation?

Recently, Christian Widener determined the Day of the Lord would occur on a Jubilee. He has a video. His research suggests the 120th Jubilee starts in 2027 at the end of the 70th Week. The numbers jump out here. Genesis 6 says man's days are set at 120 years. 120 X 50 = 6000.

As the name of the thread states, the 70th Week and the Day of the Lord are exclusive. So, 1290 days after the first Abomination event, the 70th Week ends and the Day of the Lord begins. The 7 Seals are a blue print. The horsemen bring tribulation in the first four. Rapture during the 5th. Day of the Lord begins with the 6th. 7th leads to Judgement.

With this in mind, you can make the puzzle pieces fit. You don't need a hidden antichrist already active in his 42 month reign, and you don't need to symbolize away all the Trumpets. Trumpets are still judgements, and the Church was promised no involvement, but it was promised tribulation which it receives the entire week. The Trumpets have not started yet--they will in 2027, followed by the Bowls in 2030.

The parable of the 10 Virgins is at play here. Consider all the different religious outfits that do not focus on the Gospel. There will be a huge number of Foolish Virgins left. Trumpets are for warning. The Trumpets are for them, and a massive revival will occur. The antichrist will confirm the Abraham Accords to symbolically hide Israel from the world stage while he goes after her children--Christians who find true faith. The restrainer is removed at the end of antichrist's reign, and then Israel is attacked during the Bowls.

No true Christian will go through the Bowls. This must be dealt with. If we only have 7 years for all, then the Bowls have to last for a very short time, and the true Church has to be out of here before then. I used to believe in a one-week scenario, but when reading through Revelation, I always wondered how all this could happen in a 7-year stretch, and if a pre-trib Rapture wasn't true, there was less than 50% chance of surviving anyway.

Rethink your understanding. Even though I have no takers in this forum, my system satisfies all futurists. The Church goes through the Tribulation. Rapture happens after the identity of the antichrist is known, and then the Church avoids judgement. Plus, you can resolve your questions of the Two Witnesses, the mark, etc.

Hope to hear more from you.

 

[SteveSmid]

What do you mean exactly? Be as specific as possible so that I don't have to guess as to what you are asking and why.


How can that be exactly? Please stop being so vague and be specific about what you are talking about.

If eschatology refers to the past, and Israel was replaced by the Church, then Israel of today has no place in eschatology. It just strangely reformed after 2000 years and became a big pain in the ass for the world.

Epiphanes and then the Romans did Abominations that caused desolation. Doesn't mean there cannot be another one. Plus, you can create a sermon out of scriptures, but they can still be about future events. Joseph's story is about relying on God, enduring great hardships, and forgiveness, but it also foretells the coming of Jesus.

 

[SteveSmid]

Where is a second 70 weeks referenced in scripture (besides the 70 weeks referenced in Daniel 9:24-27)?

Same place where the 2 advents were discussed--nowhere. All discussions have assumptions. Scripture does not nail down eschatology.

 

[SteveSmid]

Welcome, Steve. The actual end of what?

How does the end of the indignation occur? When is the new heavens and earth? Do you read this symbolically, or will Jesus return and rule from the new temple?

 

[SteveSmid]

Jesus anointed the most Holy Place with a new and living way through his atonement.


Hebrews 9:24
For Christ did not enter into a holy place made with hands, a mere copy of the true one, but [He entered] into heaven itself, now to appear in the very presence of God on our behalf;

1. Hebrews 10:19
   

   A New and Living Way​

   Therefore, believers, since we have confidence andfull freedom to enter the Holy Place [the place where God dwells] by [means of] the blood of Jesus,
   
   
2. Hebrews 10:20
   by this new and living way which He initiated and opened for us through the veil [as in the Holy of Holies], that is, through His flesh,

That would be the age of the Gospel of grace, as Jesus has completely atoned for the sins of the world.

Gods call to repentance now...,

30 Therefore God overlooked and disregarded the former ages of ignorance; but now He commands all people everywhere to repent [that is, to change their old way of thinking, to regret their past sins, and to seek God’s purpose for their lives], 31 because He has set a day when He will judge the inhabited world in righteousness by a Man whom He has appointed and destined for that task, and He has provided credible proof to everyone by raising Him from the dead.”

I fully understand where you come from--have for decades. You could have simply passed on my obvious futurist post. All prophesy of the first Advent literally came true, but in your eyes, the Bible turned into a poem for the Second.

 

[SteveSmid]

It's the last week of the first and only time.

Got it. We don't need to agree on this, but what about the separation of the 70th Week and the Day of the Lord? I really want to discuss.

 

[covenantee]

How does the end of the indignation occur? When is the new heavens and earth? Do you read this symbolically, or will Jesus return and rule from the new temple?

None of that is in Daniel 9:24-27.