Nothing changes the requirement of salvation through faith in Christ, which adds the believer to "all Israel". Romans 9:6; 11:26
My personal eclectic view
- Thread starter Randy Kluth
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1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
If a Gentile is not in the church at the time the Antichrist is revealed, God will put on them a strong delusion to believe his lies. Up until then the "fulness of the Gentiles" is still happening, but when the Antichrist is revealed, then Christians will be perfected by the trials of the GT, unless they are already perfect before it starts. The GT will be for national Israel to come into spiritual Israel and be saved.
8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. (That means they cannot be added to the Church. Haven't you been taught these scriptures, or at least read them on your own?)
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
You are obviously blind as to what Romans 11 means. The nation of Israel was never blinded. You have to be blind to think that. It's only "the rest" of the people in Israel besides the remnant of believers (which included Paul), who were blinded. Not the entire nation. Open your eyes when you read Romans 11 and you can then see this.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
One's DNA or nationality never has and never will have anything to do with salvation! It always has been and always will be about God's grace and about personal faith. Never about nationality. You are sadly mistaken.
Don't you realize that there is no substitute for salvation through faith in Christ, past, present, and future?
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
No, the fullness of the Gentiles is about Gentiles.
That part is correct, but, of course, Jews come into the church during the time that Gentiles have been coming into the church as well. Do you know that there are two Israels? It's only the people of one of the two Israels of which all are and all will be saved.
How do you interpret this passage?
Romans 9:6 It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7 Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham’s children. On the contrary, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.”[a] 8 In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring.
LOL! That is a foolish statement. Who exactly do we have being replaced and who replaces them? In my view God's people have always been those who have faith. After Jesus came and shed His blood, that brought Jew and Gentile believers together as "one new man" in "one body". There is no replacement here. Instead, there is a joining together as one of all believers, Jew and Gentile. Who is replaced? No one. As I already told you, replacement theology is a term made up by dispensationalists like you to misrepresent what people like me believe.
Do you ever read the New Testament? It doesn't seem like you do. Have you never read this...
Ephesians 3:1 For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for the sake of you Gentiles—2 Surely you have heard about the administration of God’s grace that was given to me for you, 3 that is, the mystery made known to me by revelation, as I have already written briefly. 4 In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5 which was not made known to people in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God’s holy apostles and prophets. 6 This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.
Gentile believers are fellow heirs with Israelite believers of God's promises. That's what Paul taught, which was a mystery in Old Testament times. Do you accept that or not?
Galatians 3:16
Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
2 Corinthians 1:20
For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.
Hebrews 1:1,2
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
In these promises, we see that the Heir and Beneficiary is Christ alone, that all of the promises are affirmed and confirmed in Him, and that He is Heir of all things. All includes the OT land promises, the restoration promises, the blessings promises, and all else. There are no exceptions.
God has appointed His Son alone as heir of all things. Unbelieving Israel is not an heir. Galatians 4:30-31.
His New Will and Testament contains even better promises:
Hebrews 8
6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
Such as:
Hebrews 11
16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.
Additional promises in...:
Romans 8:16-17
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
Galatians 3:29
And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
...declare that those who are in Christ are heirs and joint heirs with Him.
But it is clear, plain, and undeniable:
There are no promises for anyone, Jew or Gentile...
Who is not in Christ under His New Covenant/Testament.
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
This is a circular argument. Before proving that the "time of the end" actually applies to the endtime, you claim, dogmatically, that it is so. Then you argue, based on that unproven fact that the prophecy in Dan 11.45 must be about the endtime.
My point is that if the "time of the end" in the passage refers not to the endtime but rather, to the time of the end of this succession of kings, then Antiochus 4 may indeed be the person Dan 11.45 is speaking of.
And in my earlieer post I showed you how the "time of the end" is indeed speaking of the end of this particular succession of kings. It is the time of "wrath" against these particular kings. It is happening towards the "latter end" of these kings' reigns. And the particular kings are named, indicating, towards the end, the king of Greece and his latter day representative, which we know from history to be Antiochus 4.
Antiochus 4 had a palatial tent--a military tent--set up outside of Jerusalem, representing his continuing assault upon that city. Antiochus himself was in the process of returning from his wars in the East, dying along the way from illness.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
Amen. It couldn't be more clear, yet dispensationalists still can't see it. Sad.
Romans 8
8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
jeffweeder
Well-Known Member
The time for natural Israel to be saved is today. God has been calling all people everywhere to repent since Jesus.
Act 17
30 Therefore God overlooked and disregarded the former ages of ignorance; but now He commands all people everywhere to repent [that is, to change their old way of thinking, to regret their past sins, and to seek God’s purpose for their lives], 31 because He has set a day when He will judge the inhabited world in righteousness by a Man whom He has appointed and destined for that task, and He has provided credible proof to everyone by raising Him from the dead.”
Natural Israelites become Spiritual Israelites when they are born again of the Spirit along with all repentant Gentiles.
This is Gods only Household of his Sons and Daughters who will inherit the Kingdom
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
Sure. Describes our behaviors when we walk after the Spirit.
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jeffweeder
Well-Known Member
John is addressing the born of God believers in Christ.
3 See what an incredible quality of love the Father has shown to us, that we would [be permitted to] be named and called and counted the children of God! And so we are! For this reason the world does not know us, because it did not know Him.
2 Beloved, we are [even here and] now children of God, and it is not yet made clear what we will be [after His coming]. We know that when He comes and is revealed, we will [as His children] be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is [in all His glory].
3 And everyone who has this hope [confidently placed] in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure (holy, undefiled, guiltless).
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
It shows more than that. If prayers go unanswered you are NOT practicing righteousness.
cc: @jeffweeder
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
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