Satan and his demons are real beings/entities (with personalities) not abstract evil within unregenerate man
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2 Peter 2:4 (KJV) For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
These angels are those human messengers of God from Old, who lived in the days of Noah and the flood. This is NOT speaking of spiritual beings, but of human beings who were not saved from the waters of the flood. Why? Because instead of being messengers of God they aligned themselves with the world, against the only one person found righteous before God.
This whole chapter Peter 2 is speaking of those who call themselves by the name of Christ but who "were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction." It is they not spirit beings, but those people who are of their father the devil. They are men of Old, and in death from the flood they are cast down to lowest hell and delivered into chains of darkness to be reserved unto judgment.
One cannot but help remembering the parable of Lazarus and the rich man when we read this chapter. Lazarus carried by the spirit messengers of God, the angels, into the arms of Abraham. The rich man in death is simply buried in the grave and describing what awaits him is torment and suffering that shall be at the Judgment.
By His cross and resurrection Christ descended into the part of the grave where the Old Covenant saints of God called Abraham's bosom. Before ascending to heaven Christ emptied this part of the grave, taking the captives there with Him to heaven a spiritual body, living souls, but that part of the grave tartaroos, the deepest part of the abyss is still reserved for some who no longer have hope of salvation because these Old Covenant people died in unbelief.
I do not agree. He is specifically talking about destruction. Sodom and Gomorrah are often used when Scripture is describing the pouring out of God's wrath and complete destruction.
NO! Devils are evil invisible spirits, they are NOT angels! I find it extraordinary that one as learned as you cannot distinguish between evil spirits of Satan, and angels spirits of God both of which are MESSENGERS. And equally extraordinary that you could believe that Satan, who was, is and always shall be evil was created an angel of God until he rebelled! How do you reconcile this to eliminate the contradiction and confusion it causes?
All of mankind until they are born again of the Spirit of Christ in them is spiritually speaking of the spirit of Satan, or of the Spirit of Christ. All man walk according to the spirit (mind/heart/will/emotions) that is in them. If the spirit of evil, we are of our father the Devil, if the Spirit of Christ, we are of our Father in heaven. Our spirit (mind/heart/will/emotions) is the control center of every man.
Scott, if Satan is a fallen angel why is it said speaking of him:
John 8:44 (KJV) Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
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Which is one problem with translations. The Greek word angelos would have caused less confusion and forcing contradiction into the Word of God if it had simply been translated 'messenger' as found in The Concordant Version of Holy Scripture.
CV - For if God spares not sinning messengers, but, thrusting them into the gloomy caverns of Tartarus, give them up to be kept for chastening judgment,
This is not erroneous because angelos is defined - a messenger; especially an "angel"; by implication, a pastor:—angel, messenger.
In this the student of the Word through the power of the Spirit in them would be able to better understand when the 'messenger' in view is spirit angel of God, or human messenger of God as has been written of John the Baptist. It would also help us not to confuse when Scripture speaks of demonic spirit(s) or the angels, spirits of God.
They cannot rebut truth which is why they seldom address what is actually said. However I do notice today that WPM has at least tried to make an argument against the truths presented. I've replied with rebuttals to them from the Word, I will wait to see whether my replies will be received honestly or will he continue to try to accuse, trying to provoke because its hard to build a defense against that which is biblical truth.
Referring to which part of the verse? 'He was a murderer from the beginning'
To me this refers to the garden of Eden, where by his actions he caused the death of all people, Adam, Eve and all of humanity.
And the lie was in how he spoke to Eve. In v4, he lied to her about the dying part, they did die.
In v5, what he says makes Eve question God's motives for keeping the fruit from her, and it was desirable and looked good.
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Now the serpent was more cunning than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said to the woman, “Has God indeed said, ‘You shall not eat of every tree of the garden’?”
2 And the woman said to the serpent, “We may eat the fruit of the trees of the garden; 3 but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God has said, ‘You shall not eat it, nor shall you touch it, lest you die.’ ”
4 Then the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. 5 For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”
6 So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was [a]pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate. She also gave to her husband with her, and he ate. 7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves [b]coverings.
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About the serpent, Satan took the form of a serpent.
There are very many species of snakes living today.
I have owned some and none of them were cunning, devious, or evil, supernatural.
How can a serpent speak human language?
Now the serpent was more cunning than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said to the woman, “Has God indeed said, ‘You shall not eat of every tree of the garden’?”
He was a physical being, not a spirit.
Satan took on physical form.
The Bible is not explicitly clear on the origins for when the spirits, both angels and demonic came into existence. We have only this:
Exodus 20:11 (KJV) For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
Scripture reads as though the serpent, we discover is representative of Satan, was either made among the beast of the field,or it could be saying the serpent was called a beast of the field.
Genesis 3:1 (KJV) Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
They are spiritual beings, assigned to be spirit messengers of God, or spirit messengers of Satan. The power of Satan to work within hearts and minds of humanity begins small until this spirit messenger enters the hearts/minds of A&E, and through deception deceives them into disobeying God, and in doing so making them his servants/slaves. It seems that when they were tempted if they had only remembered the commandment of God and chose not to heed the voice of evil and eat of the forbidden tree, at that moment Satan may have ceased altogether.
But that was not the plan ordained in heaven before the foundation of the world. This evil spirit messenger of Satan would be the vehicle for which God would show A&E how sin and death through sin would be the end of God's creation. The emotions of good and evil cannot be known or created, they must be experienced. Through discovering good & evil man would understand their hopelessness without The Saviour!
These Old Testament humans were, like Noah to be messengers of God. But they gave themselves over to sin, and chose the things of the world rather than God. Noah alone was righteous before God. So these human messengers of God are kept in the deepest, darkness abyss to be reserved for Judgment. This was before the advent of Christ, before He descended into hell to set the captives free. That's why they like the rich man in the parable of Lazarus and the rich man are being held in that part of the grave that is separated from the bosom of Abraham.
There are not rebellious angels of God mentioned in Gen 6. There are only sons of God, who is never called an angel. It was not angels who sinned, but those who were the sons of God, but chose the world and rejected God.
I agree! Satan, called serpent in the beginning is and always has been the father of lies and murderer.
The lie was not of them dying, it was in they would become as God. A&E would deceived into believing they could be their own gods, and be in control of their own destiny. They chose death rather than to submit to God and live under His dominion forever.
Genesis 3:4-5 (KJV) And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
Sons of God are also mentioned in Job
These creatures are not men, not human beings.
These are the same ones Genesis 6 speaks of.
Satan appears to be of the same order of being as themselves.
Peter also refers to 'celestial beings'. in other words angels.
Angels also appear to be of a large amount of variety in kind, some are called 'watchers', but they all are 'celestial', until they leave their appointed by God places, purposes and functions, habitations, against His will.
Job 1
Satan Attacks Job’s Character
6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and [e]Satan also came among them. 7 And the Lord said to [f]Satan, “From where do you come?”So Satan answered the Lord and said, “From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking back and forth on it.”
8 Then the Lord said to Satan, “Have you [g]considered My servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, one who fears God and [h]shuns evil?”
9 So Satan answered the Lord and said, “Does Job fear God for nothing? 10 Have You not [i]made a hedge around him, around his household, and around all that he has on every side? You have blessed the work of his hands, and his possessions have increased in the land. 11 But now, stretch out Your hand and touch all that he has, and he will surely curse[j] You to Your face!”
12 And the Lord said to Satan, “Behold, all that he has is in your [k]power; only do not lay a hand on his person.”
So Satan went out from the presence of the Lord.
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