I understand your frustration! I would be frustrated also if I supported and promoted a false doctrine. It is very frustrating trying to prove the Bible says Satan was good until he disobeyed God and became evil, because the Bible tells us the exact opposite. Especially when the Bible very clearly tells us that from the beginning Satan was, is, and always shall be a murderer and liar, and in fact he is called the father of lies.
A WAR IS COMING, BUT IT WON’T BE FOUGHT ON EARTH.
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Davy
Well-Known Member
Genesis 1:24-25 (KJV) And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so. And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
Genesis 3:1 (KJV) Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
Revelation 12:9 (KJV) And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
The Bible nowhere speaks of the spirit called Satan as having been created. In Genesis we read only that darkness was upon the face of the deep, and God, speaking to Isaiah says:
Isaiah 45:7 (KJV) I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
Ge 1:1 ¶ In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Ge 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
Throughout Scripture darkness is used as metaphor for wickedness, evil and Satan, as well as literally meaning night as opposed to day.
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Davy
Well-Known Member
Satan's title as "that old serpent" is a metaphor title. It does not mean Satan was a created snake, like you are trying to insinuate. That idea is kind of loony even.
Per God's parable about Lucifer in Ezekiel 28 using the "king of Tyrus", God said He originally created Lucifer perfect in his ways, and that he was created as the anointed cherub that covereth (the Mercy Seat, God's Throne). I don't know about you, but I know God's Word reveals the difference between a heavenly created being like a cherub vs. a snake.
Please see my edited reply to you above #63.
Reposting #53
The human king is operating under the power and influence of Satan. In the same manner we see Satan operated in the minds and hearts of man (Adam & Eve) at creation. Satan is the same throughout time given this earth whereby mankind might be eternally saved. It is not Satan, but mankind that was created with wisdom and perfection in beauty, who walked upon the stones in the garden of Eden until evil was found in them (Adam & Eve).
That does not mean the lamentation upon the king of Tyrus is that he might know what would become of the adversary called Satan. The lamentation is against him; king Tyrus!
Ezekiel 28:2 (KJV) Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:
Ezekiel 28:11-12 (KJV) Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
King Tyrus, belonging to mankind was of the natural seed of Adam (man), therefore that which befell Adam & Eve, befalls all of mankind, including King Tyrus. Tyrus allowed himself to become corrupted and prideful in the same manner in which A&E did when they listened to the voice of evil and disobeyed God. This is why God sent His prophet to speak judgment through parable/lamentation against these spiritually fallen kings, announcing what would become of them and every man through pride and arrogance that allow themselves to be overcome by the deception of Satan. Just as the serpent in the garden had convinced A&E they too could become as a god, Satan operates through the same deception convincing these spiritually fallen kings that they too through pride and arrogance had become as God.
Besides Ezekiel 28
15 From the day you were created
you were blameless in your ways—
until wickedness was found in you......which shows Satan was created blameless then wickedness was found in him...there is also Genesis 31 And God saw everything that he had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day......if Satan had fallen by day 6 then everything would not be good....in fact VERY GOOD.
In fact even the beast were good....you even posted scripture saying so. You used bold letters and underlined words.
Considering Satan was "good".....walked in the garden in an un-fallen state as a cherub...(an angelic living creature) clearly shows Satan was once a "good guy".....until he got into his I, I, I will mode in Isaiah 14...and fell.
Isaiah 14:12“How you are fallen from heaven,
O Day Star, son of Dawn!
How you are cut down to the ground,
you who laid the nations low!
13You said in your heart,
‘I will ascend to heaven;
above the stars of God
I will set my throne on high;
I will sit on the mount of assembly
in the far reaches of the north;c
14I will ascend above the heights of the clouds;
I will make myself like the Most High.’
15But you are brought down to Sheol,
to the far reaches of the pit.
No, it shows mankind, which is the entire human race, ALL the natural seed of Adam was created blameless until wickedness was found in man. King Tyrus, belonging to mankind, like Adam in the beginning was created blameless, but like Adam, so too, king Tyrus, became wicked. How does the fact that mankind caused God's "very good" creation to become corrupted through wickedness make what God created "very good" not "very good" after all? Just because what God created very good became corrupted through prideful man does not mean everything God created was not in the beginning "very good" just as God tells us it was.
The passage NEVER says Satan was good in the garden of Eden in an un-fallen state as a cherub. Neither cherubim or Satan are called angelic as you imagine. Satan was never a "good guy" as you again imagine. If he were, God would not say Satan is a liar and murderer from the BEGINNING. The beginning at creation Satan is the father of lies. Because the Bible tells us that everything that God created in heaven, the earth and the sea were created in six days.
Exodus 20:11 (KJV) For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
Revelation 10:6 (KJV) And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:
Satan was not good and then fell from his goodness and became evil. He is exactly what God created him to be "very subtil" that is cunning and crafty in a very bad sense. That's how the Bible describes the serpent, which is a metaphor for Satan.
The description is reflected in man...but the description isn't specifically of mankind...it speaks of Satan and who he is and was.
The description is of a supernatural being. The description is of a cherub.
The verse about Satan...presented as a type of Satan the King was... surely does.
Everything was created VERY GOOD....this would include Satan prior to his fall. Ezekiel 28 and Isaiah 14 speak of Satans fall.
Beginning ...can mean a specific time such as the first inning of a baseball game or the beginning of the game that was conceived of in the 1840's which took a few years to establish with the first professional team being formed in 1869.
That is the beginning can be expressed as a time period.
One could say the beginning of creation was day one or the beginning consisted of 7 days and a short time following the 7 days.
Yes, Satan fell in the beginning of our history.
You have no verse that speaks of Satan being created in an evil state...but there is a statement in the bible that everything was originally created as very good.
This is sheer speculation on your part.
You're not making sense! If the description reflects man, how is it not specifically mankind? It makes even less sense to argue the lamentation to be spoken to king Tyrus is about what shall befall the evil spirit called Satan??? A cherub is NOT a supernatural being, that too is illogical and makes even less sense.
If this were true how do you explain God calling him a murderer and liar from the BEGINNING? The spirit being; Satan, using the serpent to accomplish evil is also "very good" because God Himself takes credit for having creating both darkness and evil. And all that God created is pronounced "very good." Just because you can't understand how God uses evil to bring about good, doesn't mean all that God created was not "very good."
Genesis 50:20 (KJV) But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive.
Sheeze rwb....mankind was never a cherub.
How is a cherub not a supernatural being?
Did God place an unfallen human to guard the entrance to the garden? Of course not. God placed a member of the created order of what we call "angels" there.
What's next...angels don't exist?
I've already explained it...
Beginning ...can mean a specific time such as the first inning of a baseball game or the beginning of the game that was conceived of in the 1840's which took a few years to establish with the first professional team being formed in 1869.
That is the beginning can be expressed as a time period.
One could say the beginning of creation was day one or the beginning consisted of 7 days and a short time following the 7 days.
Yes, Satan fell in the beginning of our history.
You have no verse that speaks of Satan being created in an evil state...but there is a statement in the bible that everything was originally created as very good.
The bible doesn't say God created evil.
Evil isn't "very good". Sorry. It's not really worth arguing with you on this topic.
OK????? So what?
The verse says YE thought evil against me....It doesn't say God thought evil against me.
What denomination teaches your nonsense?
