Satan and his demons are real beings/entities (with personalities) not abstract evil within unregenerate man

[TribulationSigns]

No, Jesus said the rich man was in Hades, but 2 Peter 2:4 talks about the angels being in Tartarus. In English, the Greek words "hades" and "tartarus" are normally translated as "hell", but in the original text they are not the same. The reason the word is different in relation to the angels is because angels aren't in hades, but the souls and spirits of dead unbelievers are

Wrong again! The unbelievers are the angels—the messengers—of their own rebellious spirit called Satan! Their souls are already being held in that place of silence, and it has been since Cain! Hell, Hades, and Tartarus all refer to the very same place—the realm that will one day give up all the dead messengers (not angels) before judgment. I have already explained the truth about Hades in my earlier posts, so I will not waste time repeating it. What I see here is nothing but continued denial and stubborn blindness from both SI and WPM.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Want some tissues?



No, they are not the so-called angels.

1st John 4:1

• "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world."

And speaking of ministering spirits, we are also warned to beware of what type spirits that come because all are not sent by God. Some are sent by Satan and are merely masquerading as messengers (not angels) who are ministers of light.

2nd Corinthians 11:14-15

• "And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
• Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works."

The false messenger who appears as a minister righteousness, a messenger of light, in order to deceive. These are false ministering spirits appearing as true ministering spirits, of which God warns us not to believe every spirit. Try or prove them, and the way to do that is by the word of God! The way not to be deceived is to pay close attention to their authority. Is it the word of God or the words, traditions, and speculations of men?

...but I digress. The messengers who are true ministering spirits are those who are truly sent of God to evangelize. Not your fantasy of celestial created beings.

As for the rest of your post, I won't deal with it because I already covered it. You were just repeating yourself with wrong interpretation.

You are lying. You have not dealt with the rest of his post. Tell me, who are the devil and his angels referenced in Matthew 25:41 and Revelation 12:9? You say the devil is the evil spirit of man. So, do you think "the devil and his angels" are "the spirit of man and his spirit of men"? LOL. You haven't addressed this.

James 4:7 says "resist the devil and he will flee from you". How can man resist his own spirit and have it flee from him? LOL. Your spirit can't flee from you. There are many points made in the original posts that you have nothing to offer to refute them, but you stubbornly refuse to admit it.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Wrong again! The unbelievers are the angels—the messengers—of their own rebellious spirit called Satan! Their souls are already being held in that place of silence, and it has been since Cain! Hell, Hades, and Tartarus all refer to the very same place—the realm that will one day give up all the dead messengers (not angels) before judgment. I have already explained the truth about Hades in my earlier posts, so I will not waste time repeating it. What I see here is nothing but continued denial and stubborn blindness from both SI and WPM.

Is there no end to the number of false doctrines you believe in? In order to keep your doctrine afloat you have to claim that Hades and Tartarus are the same thing with no evidence to back that up. Your stubborn blindness knows no bounds. You go out of your way to deny truth repeatedly with your made up nonsense.

Jesus indicated that dead unbelievers are conscious! Read Luke 16:19-31! You are denying obvious truth here. I'm backing up my view with scripture and you are backing up yours with nothing but your own empty words. How do you get around Luke 16:19-31 where Jesus describes an unbeliever, the rich man, as being conscious in hell/Hades? You can't.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Here are a multitude of devils coming out of Mary

Luke 8:2 And certain women, which had been healed of evil spirits and infirmities,
Mary called Magdalene, out of whom went seven devils,

How can @TribulationSigns get around this? I'm sure he will try. But, he says that evil spirits represent the evil spirit of man. How can one person have multiple evil spirits if that was the case? That wouldn't be possible. So, this, along with many other scriptures proves the existence of evil spirits who are not human.

And an evil spirit from the LORD to trouble Saul

1 Sam 16:14 But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.

What does @TribulationSigns think, that Paul's spirit was made evil by the Lord? Of course it wasn't.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Want some tissues?



No, they are not the so-called angels.

1st John 4:1

• "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world."

And speaking of ministering spirits, we are also warned to beware of what type spirits that come because all are not sent by God. Some are sent by Satan and are merely masquerading as messengers (not angels) who are ministers of light.

2nd Corinthians 11:14-15

• "And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
• Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works."

The false messenger who appears as a minister righteousness, a messenger of light, in order to deceive. These are false ministering spirits appearing as true ministering spirits, of which God warns us not to believe every spirit. Try or prove them, and the way to do that is by the word of God! The way not to be deceived is to pay close attention to their authority. Is it the word of God or the words, traditions, and speculations of men?

...but I digress. The messengers who are true ministering spirits are those who are truly sent of God to evangelize. Not your fantasy of celestial created beings.

As for the rest of your post, I won't deal with it because I already covered it. You were just repeating yourself with wrong interpretation.

@rwb Can you explain why you continually like posts like this where TribulationSigns denies the existence of created spirit beings called angels when you have said that you do believe in their existence?

 

[Muna]

Heres another thing I meant to post here but I posted on another thread

TribulationSigns posted on another thread we were on this...

I hope you understand that Satan is NOT an angel or even created being as most thought (more on this some other time).

But Tribulations signs had also posted

"Satan doesn't give command to Apollyon, Satan "is" Apollyon"

Who is shown as AN ANGEL here

Rev 9:11 And they had A KING over them, WHICH IS THE ANGEL of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name "APOLLYON"

 

[TribulationSigns]

LOL. Jesus was not made lower than the humans He died for! Are you kidding me? Where do you get that idea from? He was made human. You come up with ridiculous ways to deny every truth that is presented to you. Your stubbornness is unbelievable. Jesus was not made a little lower than the people He died for, He was made a little lower than the angels in the sense that He was human and mortal (bodily) while angels are not able to die and are immortal. Humans can die and angels can't. That's how Jesus was made a little lower than the angels. You are basically saying that Jesus was made human but somehow made a little lower than the humans He died for. LOL? What? In what way exactly was Jesus made lower than us? Hello? In no way, obviously.

Congratulation on finding my post and "read" it. Told ya!

If you insist Christ has make himself lower than your version of angels, then I think you need to re-read the verses slowly, carefully, and THINK, if you can:

Heb 2:7-9
(7) Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:
(8) Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.
(9) But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

What angels did Paul talked about here? Did Christ suffer death for THEM - the angels or men as messengers (angels)?

Which one?
The problem is that you do not understand what the "little lower" and "angels" Christ talked about. There is no reason for God to make Jesus a little lower than your vision of supernatural, celestial, winged, ministering beings from heaven unless man invents a reason and through eisegesis reads it into the Bible. This is what you do. Because it sure is not in the Bible. There is a reason why God made Jesus a little lower than his messengers, and the reason is he was sent not to be ministered to as God, but to minister to them as a servant. We don't read of any supernatural beings who Christ is spoken of as being lower than, do we? Only Messengers because there is no Hebrew word angel in the Psalms from which this passage is taken. Of course, we don't read that of heavenly angels because that's not the point of the text. The point is in the context of the gospel message to humans, and specifically, the human messengers of God. HIS PEOPLE that He came to save. Christ did not come to save your angels! Duh! The context is "why" He was made lower than God's messengers to suffer death for THEM! Not for the world, not for alleged supernatural angels, but only for His messengers, His witnesses, His people that He came to carry their burden as a servant. To not be ministered unto, but to minister to them. This demonstrates His divine office as the suffering servant for "THEM," ...the messengers.

2nd Corinthians 5:21

• "For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him."

US = human messenger. Not your feathered angels. That is who Christ suffered of death FOR! He was lowered to carry every man's sin, not angels, that they might be lifted up to be the righteousness of God. As it is written:

Philippians 2:7-8

• "But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a SERVANT, and was made in the likeness of men:
• And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross."

He answers again, for the suffering of death. He took upon Himself to be lower than Messengers coming in the form of their servants. If you still deny this, there is nothing I can do for you and allow you to get yourself decevied by your empty refutation. The Lord judges and I am comfortable with it!

 

[Muna]

How can @TribulationSigns get around this? I'm sure he will try. But, he says that evil spirits represent the evil spirit of man. How can one person have multiple evil spirits if that was the case? That wouldn't be possible. So, this, along with many other scriptures proves the existence of evil spirits who are not human.

Doesn't psychology teach these might be multiple personalities of some sort?
Not only that but evil spirits were given the permission to leave a man and enter into pigs.

I have a neighbor who is a psychologist and they are not allow to state anyone has an spirit in them.
She is a christian and she even said, its clear they have another spirit working in them but she is only allowed to perscribe
them drugs.

What does @TribulationSigns think, that Paul's spirit was made evil by the Lord? Of course it wasn't.

And the LORD also sent a lying spirit, which was one singular spirit to be in the mouth of many (plural) prophets showing the same working error in the many being of that one spirit. These all having their own spirits before this.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Wrongooooo! You still have a lot to learn. You need to pray for wisdom.

I have NOTHING to learn from you. That is for certain.

Hebrews 2:9

• "But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man."

The question is, why was He made a little lower than messengers (men)?

He was not made a little lower than men! That is utterly ridiculous to claim that! That is not what it says. He was not made a little lower than any man. He is higher than every man because no other person could sacrifice themselves for the sins of the whole world.

The answer given is for the suffering of death! In other words, so that He could suffer death for them (the messengers). He came as the suffering "servant!" The servant is lower the lower. This verse has nothing to do with suffering death FOR your fake supernatural angelic beings with wings being above Christ!

No one said He suffered for angels. You continually make ridiculous straw man arguments like that. He was made a little lower than spirit beings called angels because if He was like the angels, He couldn't die. He had to be made a little lower than the angels as a human so that He could die as a sacrifice for our sins. We are HIS servants. He is not lower than us and was never lower than men! This is complete nonsense!

But with Christ's office as a servant to take upon Himself our sins and be numbered with the transgressors. He was made to be servant to the messengers of God for the suffering of death. Hello?! That says it all. This speaks of what some Christians might call the condescension of God to lower Himself.

He lowered Himself from His status as GOD in heaven to come to earth in human flesh, but He was not lower than the humans He died for. That is ludicrous. Lower than sinners? Nonsense!

Isaiah 53:3-4

• "He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
• Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted."

That's how LOW God made Himself, a man of sorrows, a man not in royal apparel, but a man despised and smitten of God.

Zechariah 9:9

• "Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass."

He couldn't be made more lowly, because this is the very reason He came. He lowered Himself, came riding on an ass, humble before His messengers, lowly as to become their servant.

Matthew 20:28

• "Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many."

Literally, even as the Son of Man did not come to be ministered to, but to minister, and to give his life as a ransom for many in suffering death for them. That's what Him being made a little lower than the messengers (for the suffering of death) means. It doesn't mean He was made lower than your fake supernatural heavenly beings for some unknown made-up reason as some suppose, for what would be the point of that?!?!?!?

LOL. Tell me how multiple evil spirits (demons) were inside the man that said his name was "Legion, for we are many" if supernatural spirit beings don't exist? Each human has one spirit, not many. You have NO ANSWER for this. How have you tried to get around this? By claiming that Jesus was just telling a parable and that there wasn't actually a real demon-possessed person with many demons inside him. You have to deny obvious truth to keep your false doctrine afloat.

There is no reason for God to make Jesus a little lower than supernatural, celestial, winged, ministering beings from heaven unless man invents a reason and through eisegesis reads it into the Bible.

The reason is obvious! Angels can't die. Humans can. So, He had to be made a little lower in status than angels in order to be able to die for the sins of the world.

Because it sure is not in the Bible! There is a reason why God made Jesus a little lower than his human messengers, and the reason is he was sent not to be ministered to as God, but to minister to THEM as a servant. Not your angels!

But, they are His servants as well, so He was never lower than His human messengers. That is ludicrous.

 

[Muna]

You are foisting your Chrisdadelphian teaching on Jude and Peter. No humans go there. It is a spiritual place of restraint for demons.

As far as the angel and spirit debate, outside the resurrection debate, it seems to be an old one

Acts 23:8 For the Sadducees say that there is no resurrection, neither angel, nor spirit:
but the Pharisees confess both.

I wonder if its the same argument

Matt 16:6 Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Doesn't psychology teach these might be multiple personalities of some sort?

Yes, because it too denies the existence of angels, including fallen angels called demons.

Not only that but evil spirits were given the permission to leave a man and enter into pigs.

Right. So, his way around that is to say that Jesus was just telling a parable there to teach a lesson and it didn't actually happen. But, those with discernment know otherwise.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

As far as the angel and spirit debate, outside the resurrection debate, it seems to be an old one

Acts 23:8 For the Sadducees say that there is no resurrection, neither angel, nor spirit:
but the Pharisees confess both.

I wonder if its the same argument

Matt 16:6 Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.

Good catch. We are dealing with someone who has fallen for the leaven of the Sadducees.

 

[Muna]

He was not made a little lower than men! That is utterly ridiculous to claim that! That is not what it says. He was not made a little lower than any man. He is higher than every man because no other person could sacrifice themselves for the sins of the whole world.

EXACTLY my point!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

As far as the angel and spirit debate, outside the resurrection debate, it seems to be an old one

Acts 23:8 For the Sadducees say that there is no resurrection, neither angel, nor spirit:
but the Pharisees confess both.

I wonder if its the same argument

Matt 16:6 Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.

@TribulationSigns How do you explain (try to get around) Acts 23:8? Clearly, Jesus was implying that the Sadducees were wrong not only in claiming that there is no resurrection, but also that there is "neither angel, nor spirit". You say angels represent human messengers. So, are you going to try to claim that Jesus was saying the Sadducees were wrong for saying that human messengers don't exist? Is that what you think the Sadducees were denying? Obviously, that is not the case. Like you, they denied the existence of angels.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

It is utterly foolish to deny the existence of angels, including fallen angels like Satan and his angels. Ironically, that is a doctrine of demons. A doctrine of evil spirit beings that people like @TribulationSigns deny exist.

 

[WPM]

Hello! Wow… looks like you’ve been binge-watching The Exorcist a little too much. Careful—you might start thinking every shadow in your house is a demon!



No, it is their own spirit of disobedience that has blinded them. They have been deceived by the lies they tell themselves, and their stubborn pride keeps them from seeing the truth.



Of course! That’s exactly why false prophets and false Christs appear among us—we must test their own spirit, which is called none other than Satan.

Mat 4:1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.

Contrary to what you teach, this is not Jesus encountering an abstract impersonal “collective manifestation of human depravity.” No! This is Jesus encounter our arch-enemy the devil – a real evil being. This is a being with volition, an agenda and feelings. Satan is “the prince of the devils.” He is the king of the kingdom of darkness. He speaks. He reasons. He has intellect. He deceives. He manipulates. He intimidates.

There is no mention of any ungodly human being in this story who is controlled by "their own spirit of disobedience that has blinded them." This is Satan himself, a fallen angel.

1st Temptation

Matthew 4:3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.

This attempt was to try and get Jesus to think about his own welfare. After all, He was hungry. Food would have been extremely appealing to Him after forty days and forty nights without it.

Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God (He quoted this from Deuteronomy 8:3).

Jesus doesn’t miss the mark. He puts the ball in the net every time. He reminded Satan that we are governed, satisfied and nourished by something more important than natural food, spiritual food – God’s truth.

Christ demolished this attack by resisting the devils attack, and by employing applicable Scripture to state the truth and expose his nonsense.

This is what you need to do with what he is hitting you.

2nd Temptation

Matthew 4:5 Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,

6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

Having failed in his attempt to get Jesus to fulfill any selfish desires, Satan went to the other extreme and tempted Jesus to wantonly throw himself upon the Father’s protection. This was so sneaky. Simply, he was trying to tell Jesus what to do by manipulating the words of Scripture. He’s really good at that. Amen?

Matthew 4:7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God (He quoted this from Deuteronomy 6:16).

This is such a bold but simple biblical dismissal of the evil one. We sometimes think that we need to get into a long elaborate prolong battle with the devil when that is not the case.

Christ again demolished this attack by resisting the devils attack, and by employing applicable Scripture to state the truth and expose his nonsense.

3rd Temptation

Matthew 4:8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.

This temptation here involved an alternative path – a less painful path to win the nations. The only problem was, this was not what God planned.

This tells me: the devil will always offer you a Plan B that is easier and more palatable – don’t fall for it!

Matthew 4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve (He quoted this from Deuteronomy 6:13).

Jesus reminded Satan of who is submitted to who!

Christ again demolished this attack by resisting the devils attack, and by employing applicable Scripture to state the truth and expose his nonsense.

Are there not lessons here for you and me?

Satan knows the power of the Word of God. In fact, he trembles at it. That is why the devil so desperately tries to keep you away from this Book brother/sister. He knows when you are in this Book, you are not ignorant. He knows when you’re employing this Book that he has nothing to counteract it.

 

[TribulationSigns]

How can @TribulationSigns get around this? I'm sure he will try. But, he says that evil spirits represent the evil spirit of man. How can one person have multiple evil spirits if that was the case? That wouldn't be possible. So, this, along with many other scriptures proves the existence of evil spirits who are not human.

Clearly, some of you either suffer from spiritual blindness or simply didn’t bother to read carefully what I explained about the seven “devils” or “spirits” last night. The number seven in Scripture is not random—it carries deep spiritual significance. It represents completeness, totality, and all-inclusiveness of whatever is in view. If you don’t understand that, then it’s time to do your homework instead of arguing from ignorance.


Look at Revelation 5:6:

• And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.”

Now tell me—does this mean God literally has seven horns? Seven eyes? Or seven separate spirits? Of course not! It symbolizes that God is all-powerful (the horns) and all-seeing, all-knowing (the eyes)—His omniscience and omnipresence. Now can you explain what seven spirits of God is, humm?

So, when Scripture says that seven devils were cast out of the woman, do you seriously think there were seven literal demons crawling around inside her? (Scoff.) No—Christ was showing us a spiritual reality, the total deliverance from the spirit of Satan—the complete cleansing of her soul.


But to see that, one must have spiritual discernment, not carnal reasoning. That’s the problem here. Christ’s miracles were not performed for entertainment or superstition, but to reveal the greater spiritual truth behind them. And no, they are not literal demons. Sorry to disappoint you.

Selah!

 

[WPM]

As far as the angel and spirit debate, outside the resurrection debate, it seems to be an old one

Acts 23:8 For the Sadducees say that there is no resurrection, neither angel, nor spirit:
but the Pharisees confess both.

I wonder if its the same argument

Matt 16:6 Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.

Wow! Great post! Check mate! Great catch!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Hello! Wow… looks like you’ve been binge-watching The Exorcist a little too much. Careful—you might start thinking every shadow in your house is a demon!

For crying out loud, man. Demon possession is very clearly taught in scripture.

Mark 5:6 But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him, 7 And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not. 8 For he said unto him, Come out of the man, thou unclean spirit. 9 And he asked him, What is thy name? And he answered, saying, My name is Legion: for we are many. 10 And he besought him much that he would not send them away out of the country. 11 Now there was there nigh unto the mountains a great herd of swine feeding. 12 And all the devils besought him, saying, Send us into the swine, that we may enter into them. 13 And forthwith Jesus gave them leave. And the unclean spirits went out, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the sea, (they were about two thousand;) and were choked in the sea.

This talks about a man who had many devils (demons)/unclean spirits in him and Jesus cast them out of him into the nearby swine who then ran off a cliff and fell into the sea. Your way around this is to say that this is a parable that Jesus made up to teach a lesson, which is nothing more than a joke. This is just one of many accounts in scripture of people being possessed by demons. You think those are all made up stories? LOL. No. Scritpure couldn't be more clear about the existence of spirit beings called angels, including evil spirit beings called devils or demons or unclean spirits. To deny their existence is just utterly ridiculous and makes me wonder how in the world you got to the point where you deny such obvious truths?

 

[Muna]

It is utterly foolish to deny the existence of angels, including fallen angels like Satan and his angels. Ironically, that is a doctrine of demons. A doctrine of evil spirit beings that people like @TribulationSigns deny exist.

And here are these things stated differently

Psalm 78:49 He cast upon them the fierceness of his anger, wrath, and indignation, and trouble, by sending evil angels among them.

But if we ditch the sending of evil angels we can the LORD sending evil spirits

1 Sam 16:14 But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.

And then if you ditch the evil spirits and evil angels He is shown sending a lying spirit

1 Kings 22:23 Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.

They are cast out of men, and sent into pigs also

Matt 8:31 So the devils besought him, saying, If thou cast us out, suffer us to go away into the herd of swine.

Here are devils speaking and requesting that when you cast us out of this man please sent us into a herd of swine

They speak and are specific to the location they want to go, but not into the place of torment they know they will be going.

Matt 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them (those persons) on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: