Satan and his demons are real beings/entities (with personalities) not abstract evil within unregenerate man

[Muna]

The serpent — also called Satan or the Devil — represents the spirit of man, the spirit of disobedience.

The beast, on the other hand, symbolizes a collective body of people driven by that same spirit of disobedience. People with the spirit of antichrist.

That’s all it is — plain and simple.

Not seeing, Satan who is the Devil, the Dragon, and that old Serpent who is also Leviathan
as the spirit of man that God breathed into him.

He gave us a serpent?

Matt 7:10 Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?

 

[Muna]

Peter says the devil is as a roaring lion, walking about

1 Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour

Paul was delivered out of the mouth of the lion

2Ti 4:17 Notwithstanding the Lord stood with me, and strengthened me; that by me the preaching might be fully known, and that all the Gentiles might hear: and I was delivered out of the mouth of the lion.

The devil (or Satan) "walking about", seems to be play off what the LORD shows us in Job

Job 1:7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

What is cool is that as the devil seeketh whom he may devour (as the mouth of the lion would) God's word is also shown as a thing that devours

Jerm 5:14 Wherefore thus saith the LORD God of hosts, Because ye speak this word, behold, I will make my words in thy mouth fire, and this people wood, and it shall devour them.

 

[Muna]

Dan 6:22 My God hath sent his angel, and hath shut the lions' mouths,

 

[Muna]

Acts 27:23 For there stood by me this night the angel of God, whose I am, and whom I serve,

That angel must have had wings because wasnt Paul in the middle of the Sea there?

 

[Muna]

What wrong influence? This might be hard to follow because he sticks two weird things together see the red part

TribulationSigns might say at least, in part here (as he has on another thread)

The serpent worked within Eve's mind. It wasn't a created angelic being

But again, that is not what it is showing there, following into the next verse

He ephasizes the two here

2 Cr 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

And stops there (to show some inner serpent) but Paul continues

For "if he that cometh" is mentioned behind it


Sorry I can be a bit hard to follow, I wasnt adressing the second part of what he said, which was the red underlined

The serpent worked within Eve's mind. It wasn't a created angelic being

Is that better?

^Thats^ probably harder to follow, so let me present the way I see it minus clouding it with Tribs stuff mingled into it

2 Cr 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

2 Cr 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

Gen 3:1 Yea, hath God said

2 Cr 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

The serpent attempted to deceive her with his words, and his seed would do the same

The man and the woman in Genesis is this

Ephes 5:32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

And so similarly, Paul writes them/ the Church saying.

2 Cr 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty

He fears their minds would be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

Seeing soon after the word is sown, who shows up in the garden but

Rev 12:9 That old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world

And here Satan is again ishowing up to take away the word sown in their heart by the way side

Mark 4:15 And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard,
Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

Similarly, soon after the word of God come by Jesus Christ false prophets would arise

2 Cr 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
2 Cr 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

As Satan come to take away the word from others so these do the same, word stealers

Jerm 23:30 Therefore, behold, I am against the prophets, saith the LORD, that steal my words every one from his neighbour.

Deceivers as he is, that use their tongues, and say, "He saith."

Jerm 23:31 Behold, I am against the prophets, saith the LORD, that use their tongues, and say, "He saith."

The Serpent to the woman , "Yea, hath God said"

Which would be "he that cometh" and preacheth another Jesus, seeking to beguile the Church as he that beguileth Eve similarly transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.

Again, Paul

2 Cr 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

2 Cr 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

Paul is speaking of an outside influence here such as "a false prophet", or false apostle, in the words "he that cometh" trying to persuade them with words (or another gospel) there. John also writes his children in the faith saying,

1 John 2:26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.

1 John 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

1 John 2:28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.

And theres the word ashamed planted right there, and thats fitting because Jesus said,

Luke 9:26 For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father's, and of the holy angels.

Want to be sure I correct the record without the confusion between what I am seeing versus Tribs, hope that helps

 

[Muna]

I did. I do not see your answer on WHEN did God create Satan and the "angels", exactly? I asked for verses, not OP because it does not show a verse that answer the question.

And I see something else on your OP that I want some clarification from you:

"Revelation 12:1-4 shows Satan and his devils being eternally evicted from heaven."​

When were they evicted from heaven, exactly?

When was the Lamb slain?

 

[rwb]

I think Tribs cuts 1 Cr 11:3 down to one verse to reduce the serpent down to a beast made within the woman, thise having this inner serpent in her when Paul says

2 Cr 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

2 Cr 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

How was Eve beguiled? Paul is saying she allowed her mind to be corrupted by receiving the message the serpent brought to her. In the spiritual sense her mind became of the same spirit nature that was able to deceive her.

How did the serpent attempt to deceive her, but with his words

Gen 3:1 Yea, hath God said

This is sure part of how she became deceived, by making her question the words spoken by God. But the deception that cast her into darkness was in believing that if she disobeyed God, she would become as gods. The moment she believed this lie, she believed they, Adam also, and she would be their own gods, and they would have authority over their destiny, they would no longer need the True, Creator God, but could choose to do whatever was pleasing to them.

Genesis 3:5 (KJV) For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

TribulationSigns might say at least, in part here (as he has on another thread)

The serpent worked within Eve's mind. It wasn't a created angelic being

The serpent representing Satan was NOT a created angelic being! This is clear by reading the nature that God created him with. The serpent representative of Satan was created to be the vehicle whom God would use to test humankind. This is how God has always worked with mankind in the world. Again, spiritually speaking Eve's mind became dead in trespasses and sins, and passed that desire for sin and death down to the entire human race. Her mind (spirit) became of the world, a natural spirit having the spirit (Satan) of the serpent within her. This is why man must be born again before they can know (see) or enter the Kingdom of God through the Spirit of God creating new spiritual life (new heart, new mind) within.

But again, that is not what it is showing there, following into the next verse

2 Cr 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

This is exactly what Paul is saying! Eve was first to be beguiled through the subtilty of the evil spirit, called Satan, for whom the serpent represented. Her mind and heart (spirit in her) became darkened, and without the Light/Life (Spirit of God) she had received when she was created out of man.

So if Tribs might say,

"The serpent worked within Eve's mind"

I can somewaht agree, that his words might be at work in there. Maybe she will consider those (before casting them down) because "he that cometh" can come wth deceiving and enticing words as any false prophet can come with the same.

Only somewhat agree? TS is not being a false prophet, if that is what you are implying. He is speaking truth, and you have proven that through what you have said.

 

[rwb]

Oops, I THINK Tribs would agree with this one, not sure, can you clarify?

Rev 9:11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.

When the bottomless pit is opened by the One given the key, John gives a vivid description of what comes out of the pit. TS does NOT deny there are spirits, both for good and for evil in this world. This argument is made either by misrepresenting, or taking out of context what is said, or lacking the spiritual understanding TS has been given through his study of the word.

 

[rwb]

Which would be "he that cometh" and preacheth another Jesus, seeking to beguile the Church as he that beguileth Eve similarly transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.

Is this what you imagine TS is doing?

Want to be sure I correct the record without the confusion between what I am seeing versus Tribs, hope that helps

I can't help but wonder if you really understand that TS is bringing TRUTH! Does he have perfect understanding of the spiritual realm of God? Do any of us? To say or even imply he is a liar and deceiver comes not from the Spirit of God, but by believing the lies being cast about him, and anyone else who shows gratitude for the spiritual understanding God has blessed him with. But even the beloved Apostle Paul lacked perfect understanding, but still God showed him His grace! Should we do anything less toward our brother in Christ, TS?

 

[rwb]

When was the Lamb slain?

According to promise from the foundation of the world. According to Biblical, physical evidence when Christ died or the cross.

Revelation 13:8 (KJV) And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

 

[Scott Downey]

What the Church Fathers Taught About Genesis 6 and the Nephilim - Chasing the Giants

Explore how the early Church Fathers interpreted Genesis 6. Were the sons of God angels? Who were the Nephilim? Learn what ancient Christian teachers really believed.

chasingthegiants.com

 

[rwb]

What the Church Fathers Taught About Genesis 6 and the Nephilim - Chasing the Giants

Explore how the early Church Fathers interpreted Genesis 6. Were the sons of God angels? Who were the Nephilim? Learn what ancient Christian teachers really believed.

chasingthegiants.com

Do you find any Biblical contradiction or confusion caused by MOST of the early church fathers believing angels procreated with human?

This is how much error has been passed down and perpetuated through the ages. When Christians are content to read what others taught without harmonizing what was and is being taught with all Scripture.

 

[WPM]

When the bottomless pit is opened by the One given the key, John gives a vivid description of what comes out of the pit. TS does NOT deny there are spirits, both for good and for evil in this world. This argument is made either by misrepresenting, or taking out of context what is said, or lacking the spiritual understanding TS has been given through his study of the word.

Are you his spokesman, ambassador or defender?

You seem to realize his arguments are crumbling.

 

[rwb]

Are you his spokesman, ambassador or defender?

You seem to realize his arguments are crumbling.

There is something seriously wrong within your spirit Paul!

 

[Scott Downey]

Do you find any Biblical contradiction or confusion caused by MOST of the early church fathers believing angels procreated with human?

This is how much error has been passed down and perpetuated through the ages. When Christians are content to read what others taught without harmonizing what was and is being taught with all Scripture.

The facts are what they are referring to several ECF believing that.
It was pretty much favored for the first 450 years of church history.

 

[rwb]

The facts are what they are referring to several ECF believing that.
It was pretty much favored for the first 450 years of church history.

I know, the question is, is what they believed and taught biblical, or does what they believed and taught cause contradiction and confusion?

 

[WPM]

There is something seriously wrong within your spirit Paul!

Not so. Can I remind you? You are both preaching heresy.

Why are you constantly talking on his behalf? Because you see what we can see: his doctrine has imploded.

 

[rwb]

Not so. Can I remind you? You are both preaching heresy.

Why are you constantly talking on his behalf? Because you see what we can see: his doctrine has imploded.

No, what I see here is a spirit of evil coming against a brother in Christ. Why? Because he speaks as one having spiritual discernment that some of you find offensive. Is he always right? Who is? When he shows spiritual discernment regarding spirit beings, does he use the Bible to support his view? Yes, he does! Just because some of you don't agree with YOUR brother regarding what you feel is so-called spiritual discernment, that does not mean that he, "the person" a brother in Christ should be attacked and falsely accused in the manner some of you are doing! Though you have all knowledge and understanding, without love for a brother in Christ your knowledge and understanding is sounding gong and clanging cymbal. Some of you need to learn how to dispute a doctrinal position through the Word of God without attacking the person!

 

[TribulationSigns]

Not so. Can I remind you? You are both preaching heresy.

You have not refute it biblically. When you can't gainsay or resist, you retorted to revile and deride our testimony of truth.

Matthew 5:11-12

• "Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
• Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you."

Like I said, the Lord judges and I am comfortable with it.

Why are you constantly talking on his behalf? Because you see what we can see: his doctrine has imploded.

Imploded? Only in your head because you do not like hearing the truth. I am still here preaching truth whether you like it or not.

 

[Muna]

How was Eve beguiled? Paul is saying she allowed her mind to be corrupted by receiving the message the serpent brought to her. In the spiritual sense her mind became of the same spirit nature that was able to deceive her.



This is sure part of how she became deceived, by making her question the words spoken by God. But the deception that cast her into darkness was in believing that if she disobeyed God, she would become as gods. The moment she believed this lie, she believed they, Adam also, and she would be their own gods, and they would have authority over their destiny, they would no longer need the True, Creator God, but could choose to do whatever was pleasing to them.

Genesis 3:5 (KJV) For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.



The serpent representing Satan was NOT a created angelic being! This is clear by reading the nature that God created him with. The serpent representative of Satan was created to be the vehicle whom God would use to test humankind. This is how God has always worked with mankind in the world. Again, spiritually speaking Eve's mind became dead in trespasses and sins, and passed that desire for sin and death down to the entire human race. Her mind (spirit) became of the world, a natural spirit having the spirit (Satan) of the serpent within her. This is why man must be born again before they can know (see) or enter the Kingdom of God through the Spirit of God creating new spiritual life (new heart, new mind) within.



This is exactly what Paul is saying! Eve was first to be beguiled through the subtilty of the evil spirit, called Satan, for whom the serpent represented. Her mind and heart (spirit in her) became darkened, and without the Light/Life (Spirit of God) she had received when she was created out of man.



Only somewhat agree? TS is not being a false prophet, if that is what you are implying. He is speaking truth, and you have proven that through what you have said.

Rwb, are you even reading what I am saying?

I dont even know where to begin with your posts, read what is there, if you have a problem with it point it out.

Stop putting your imaginations on my text

And you arent doing Tribs any favors here