understanding forgiveness

[thelord's_pearl]

Hi,
When Jesus on the cross said "Father, forgive them for they know not what they do.", why did He forgive those who didn't say sorry? Just trying to understand Jesus' kind of forgiveness... Thanks

 

[quietthinker]

Hi,
When Jesus on the cross said "Father, forgive them for they know not what they do.", why did He forgive those who didn't say sorry? Just trying to understand Jesus' kind of forgiveness... Thanks

God's forgiveness is present and active for all people before we ask. It is God's unsolicited forgiveness which is his drawing power.
It is the good news which we are to share with those who feel condemnation which in fact is the whole World.
The evidence that people feel condemnation is the active pursuit of anything that will make them feel better than they feel....from underarm deodorant to needing power over others and any form of altered consciousness. that's why drugs of any description are so popular....people want to feel better than they feel.
It matters not which distractions take our fancy. It might be fashion or food or money or prestige or collecting stamps or sport etc etc.

If we do not have the assurance of God's forgiveness how can we possibly tell others about it? We can't and we wont! We will only tell them religious stuff which others have convinced us of.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Hi,
When Jesus on the cross said "Father, forgive them for they know not what they do.", why did He forgive those who didn't say sorry? Just trying to understand Jesus' kind of forgiveness... Thanks

You have to understand who Jesus was talking to….

He was not talking to the religious leaders who orchestrated his execution, because Jesus had already consigned them to “Gehenna”, (Matt 23:33)….but he was asking God to forgive the Roman soldiers who drove the nails into his flesh and hoisted him up to hang like a common criminal.

These soldiers were just doing their job, one that they had probably done countless times, but this time without knowledge, that they were not executing a common criminal, but the son of God.

 

[Aunty Jane]

If we do not have the assurance of God's forgiveness how can we possibly tell others about it? We can't and we wont! We will only tell them religious stuff which others have convinced us of.

God’s forgiveness can be attained by all, but not all will qualify for it…..otherwise Jesus’ condemnation of the Pharisees would be meaningless.

To understand the meaning of “Gehenna” as opposed to “sheol” or “hades”, is to understand the limits of God’s forgiveness…..limits that apply to the incorrigibly wicked, who will not get to experience God’s forgiveness. He actually requires something from us, in order to qualify for his gift of everlasting life.

Jesus’ words prove that in order to forgive us, we need to forgive others. It’s part of the Lord’s Prayer.

 

[quietthinker]

God’s forgiveness can be attained by all, but not all will qualify for it…..otherwise Jesus’ condemnation of the Pharisees would be meaningless.

ALL qualify....present continuous; that is the good news to you also. Not all will want the company of one so gracious, just as the older brother refused to come to the party the Father turned on for the prodigal. Those who have a 'holier than thou' attitude (subliminally or not) have hoops for others to jump through and a hierarchical system which in their imagination they are climbing.

 

[quietthinker]

Jesus’ words prove that in order to forgive us, we need to forgive others. It’s part of the Lord’s Prayer.

If you refuse to forgive others you will loose the ability to believe you have been forgiven. That's how it works!

 

[Aunty Jane]

ALL qualify....present continuous; that is the good news to you also. Not all will want the company of one so gracious, just as the older brother refused to come to the party the Father turned on for the prodigal. Those who have a 'holier than thou' attitude (subliminally or not) have hoops for others to jump through and a hierarchical system which in their imagination they are climbing.

That might be what you assume, but what does the Bible say? Does God’s patience have limits? So many Bible accounts tells us that he does set limits on how far he will allow his enemies to go…..And the prophet Ezekiel was told to emphasize the fact that God’s enemies “will have to know that I am the Lord”….(Ezek 6:10)

This was after he had Ezekiel prophesied calamity for Israel, who had betrayed him by worshipping false gods.
God’s enemies do not have his forgiveness unless there is repentance followed by efforts to demonstrate a change of heart.
I do not know the God you speak of….he is not in my Bible.

If you refuse to forgive others you will loose the ability to believe you have been forgiven. That's how it works!

That again is your interpretation….that is not what the Bible says….if you want God to forgive you, you have to forgive others, first. The onus is on us to do as God tells us….not that we can tell God what to do….

 

[quietthinker]

That might be what you assume, but what does the Bible say? Does God’s patience have limits? So many Bible counts tells us that he does set limits on how far he will alllow his enemies to go…..And the prophet Ezekiel was told to emphasize the fact that God’s enemies “will have too know that I am the Lord”….(Ezek 6:10)

This was after he had Ezekiel prophesy calamity for Israel, who had betrayed him by worshipping false gods.
God’s enemies do not have his forgiveness unless there is repentance followed by orbs to demonstrate a change of heart.
I do not know the God you speak of….he is not in my Bible.


That again is your interpretation….that is not what the Bible says….if you want God to forgive you, you have to forgive others, first. The onus is on us to do as God tells us….not that we can tell God what to do….

There we have it AJ. Your paradigm turns the order back to front. That is why we find disagreement. You do this because you have not seen the unspeakable immensity of Gods kindness in Jesus. The order you operate by makes mans doing the priority and determiner of God's kindness. It appears to me you soft pedal Jesus and misinterpret Paul to shore up your view.

 

[soberxp]

Hi,
When Jesus on the cross said "Father, forgive them for they know not what they do.", why did He forgive those who didn't say sorry? Just trying to understand Jesus' kind of forgiveness... Thanks

I once saw a version in the sky,
The Roman soldier who stabbed him prayed piously before Jesus Christ.

matthew
5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

5:46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?

Jesus Christ just do what he teaches.

 

[Lambano]

Jesus Christ just do what he teaches.

 

[Lambano]

Hi,
When Jesus on the cross said "Father, forgive them for they know not what they do.", why did He forgive those who didn't say sorry? Just trying to understand Jesus' kind of forgiveness... Thanks

The reason Jesus Himself gives is that those crucifying Him didn't know what they were doing. If you don't know you did wrong, you won't say "sorry". I'm sure the Roman soldiers thought executing a would-be king in opposition to Caesar thought they were doing the right thing. And I'm sure the Sanhedrin thought executing one who "practiced sorcery and enticed Israel to apostasy" (Talmud, Sanhedrin 43a) thought they were doing the right thing also.

How can Jesus say, "they didn't know what they're doing"? My guess is that He meant they didn't know they were assassinating the Son of God. Assassinating the King's son is definitely a sign of disrespect. Wars have started over things like that; see " Ferdinand, Archduke Franz". How should God respond to that kind of rebellion? And yet, Jesus asked His Father to not destroy them.

 

[Behold]

You have to understand who Jesus was talking to….

When Christ told us to "love our enemies" He was not just talking about the nice ones. @Aunty Jane

So, God's Love, is for everyone.... Pharisee, Atheist, JW, Scientologist, Islamist, Murderer, Democrat, Marxist....ect.

"Jesus came into the world to SAVE SINNERS"....and everyone is a sinner.....so, everyone is offered God's Salvation, including God's enemies.

"God is no respector of persons".. so, being good, being bad, being evil, or being crazy.........God does not accept you based on YOU.
He only accepts you based on THE CROSS OF CHRIST that is the UNIVERSAL offer of Salvation, which is where God's eternal acceptance is found Hanging there.

Hell only takes in those who were never forgiven their sin and not born again, before they died.

 

[quietthinker]

That might be what you assume, but what does the Bible say? Does God’s patience have limits? So many Bible accounts tells us that he does set limits on how far he will allow his enemies to go…..And the prophet Ezekiel was told to emphasize the fact that God’s enemies “will have to know that I am the Lord”….(Ezek 6:10)

This was after he had Ezekiel prophesied calamity for Israel, who had betrayed him by worshipping false gods.
God’s enemies do not have his forgiveness unless there is repentance followed by efforts to demonstrate a change of heart.
I do not know the God you speak of….he is not in my Bible.


That again is your interpretation….that is not what the Bible says….if you want God to forgive you, you have to forgive others, first. The onus is on us to do as God tells us….not that we can tell God what to do….

The truth is, if you are not assured of forgiveness yourself, you will not forgive others from your heart even if you do a head job.

 

[thelord's_pearl]

Hmm... I'm still a bit confused.. so Jesus was not talking about those who crucified him/abused him when He said ''Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do? What if someone knows what they did is wrong but still did it but didn't say sorry, do we still forgive those people? I'm trying to understand the scripture and Jesus. Thanks everyone!

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

It's forgive them, for They know not what they do in fact !

That being they are Carnal dupes who are locked into this world ?

We are to come out from this world ! die to all such temptations of that are not worthy of Christ Jesus = The Lordship of Salvation ! because such is Salvation and Jesus is the Saviour of Souls and in that we become Virtue its self ?
Such people did not have Grace in fact !

Sorry does not come into it ! one can not say sorry. one only can move forward !

When I started working for my dad and big brother, they riped me off big time in malice with pathetic dribble come backs of total hatred that I would ask even. when my mates eaned 4 times to 7 times more than me.
Do I forgive them for doing that, Hell No ! and I can not ever forgive Malice. I look down on it, it's something one should never forgive because if you do you are a creep as well, who is living under a Lie !
They thought it a great joke. but that's the industry it's full of creep shows like such.
It's an Industry that is Possessed !
Knowing what I do now I would never get invoved in such If I had my time over again, I would run away, like I felt like doing but could not, because I was Trapped into it ! I had to prove myself to them, If I said No ! I would never hear the end of it. they would push and push 7 days a week and I was in so much pain. my knees were on fire that I could not sleep. Helping people out, who could not give a rats about you at all.

Like I said, I know that they being Possessed ! is all about.

Back in Jesus days, Jesus never forgave them for their Sins ! Hell No ! Salvation does not give way to Sins. but that one must be born again in fact ! Their is a New Day ? and you make progress in Grace ! you do not look at Sin as anything fruitful but that of a curse !
A Curse is like a Circle it just revolves around and around in Sin.

When I moved to a Town up north I found that this People were clearly worse, full of Trash People. and as I seen other Towns I could see some worse and some better people overall, It all had to do with Sin ! The more Sinfull Town the worst it is in fact !

Nowadays Sin is Idolised in fact, even in every Church denomination it is promoted !

I seen David Jeremiah 2 months ago best motivational speech on why Churches today are Spiritualy Dangerious ! and he is totaly correct on that Issue he talked about !
For They have tossed Jesus out with the bath water and it's because they know not Christ Jesus in fact, for They are locked into This world ! trying to keep the People happy ? but that's not what the Holy Spirit is about, for Truth is King ! and too bad if you do not like the Truth, it's only because one can not handle the Truth in fact, because such a one is weak and a abomination to God in fact ! for such is under a Curse in fact ! A Blight ! They in fact promote Sin !

The Truth will set you free ! so one can stand up to such as blighters ! do not give them an inch for they will take a mile.

 

[quietthinker]

Hmm... I'm still a bit confused.. so Jesus was not talking about those who crucified him/abused him when He said ''Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do? What if someone knows what they did is wrong but still did it but didn't say sorry, do we still forgive those people? I'm trying to understand the scripture and Jesus. Thanks everyone!

Jesus says it to all who crucify him....which is you and me.....yes, he took our sins.
'What we have done to the least we have done it to him', Jesus says. So we ask the question, who are the least? Those spat out by the system; the disenfranchised, immigrants, the imprisoned, the homeless, the sexually misguided and oppressed, drug addicts and all who are marginalised.

 

[Muna]

The reason Jesus Himself gives is that those crucifying Him didn't know what they were doing. If you don't know you did wrong, you won't say "sorry". I'm sure the Roman soldiers thought executing a would-be king in opposition to Caesar thought they were doing the right thing. And I'm sure the Sanhedrin thought executing one who "practiced sorcery and enticed Israel to apostasy" (Talmud, Sanhedrin 43a) thought they were doing the right thing also.

How can Jesus say, "they didn't know what they're doing"? My guess is that He meant they didn't know they were assassinating the Son of God. Assassinating the King's son is definitely a sign of disrespect. Wars have started over things like that; see " Ferdinand, Archduke Franz". How should God respond to that kind of rebellion?

Heres a few verses to that effect also, they knew him not

Acts 13:27 For they that dwell at Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor yet the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath day, they have fulfilled them in condemning him.

Had they have known it, it says,

1 Cr 2:8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

And so did this in ignorance

Acts 3:17 And now, brethren, I wot that through ignorance ye did it, as did also your rulers.

 

[Lambano]

What if someone knows what they did is wrong but still did it but didn't say sorry, do we still forgive those people? I'm trying to understand the scripture and Jesus.

A couple of things to think about...

1. What does it mean to forgive someone?

2. What would it mean to you if you knew, really knew, that God forgave you for something which you knew was wrong, did it anyway, and didn't say "sorry"? How would that affect your relationships with other people?

 

[Lambano]

I believe we should extend forgiveness in the same way that the Father does—treating the act as if it never occurred.

Hebrews 8:12 - For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

That's an interesting (and a good) choice of scripture. The author of Hebrews is quoting Jeremiah 31:31-34 in the context of a New Covenant between God and His people, and the acts of unrighteousness and sin and iniquity Jeremiah is talking about are corporate sins committed by God's people in the centuries leading up to the Babylonian Exile. How do we "say 'sorry'" for trespasses committed by our ancestors? I'm not sure if we the Church have that sense of corporate identity where the trespasses committed by others in the name of God (or in the name of Christ) are shared by us, even if we may or may not have personally committed them.

I like the use of the "forgetfulness" model of forgiveness. Does that mean that time can take the place of "say sorry"?

 

[Behold]

Hmm... I'm still a bit confused.. so Jesus was not talking about those who crucified him/abused him when He said ''Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do? What if someone knows what they did is wrong but still did it but didn't say sorry, do we still forgive those people? I'm trying to understand the scripture and Jesus. Thanks everyone!

God's forgiveness is not based on our behavior.. not ever.
He is not a human, whereas a human loves you based on what you do for them, or provide for them, or how you perform.
God's forgiveness is only based on God's love for us is UNCONDITIONAL.