THE LORD'S PRAYER: JESUS DIDN'T PRAY IT, SHOULD WE?

[Muna]

The Jews were not to make any engraving or engraved image whether they worshipped them or not.

God wants the Gentiles to make them?

 

[Grailhunter]

God wants the Gentiles to make them?

I think God watches football with me.

 

[Muna]

I think God watches football with me.

I sit in the same room with my husband when he watches football, what does that have to do with making graven images?

 

[Muna]

Have you guys ever read that open letter to Dr Laura Schlessinger, who is an expert in all things law (supposedly)

Its called, "Why can't I buy a Canadian, a letter to Dr Laura Schlessinger"

He begins his letter,

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can.

When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate. I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the other specific laws and how to follow them:

When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15:19- 24. The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?

Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?

I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? - Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

Your devoted fan Jim

 

[Grailhunter]

I sit in the same room with my husband when he watches football, what does that have to do with making graven images?

Engraved images=television, computers, pictures, paintings, statues etc

 

[Muna]

Engraved images=television, computers, pictures, paintings, statues etc

Thats ridiculous its not an engraved image, Isaiah 44: 15-20, something graven that is considered God, even the Godhead

Acts 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

These things Paul was able to see in Athens

Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent

These had their wealth by the same

Acts 19:26 Moreover ye see and hear, that not alone at Ephesus, but almost throughout all Asia, this Paul hath persuaded and turned away much people, saying that they be no gods, which are made with hands

 

[Muna]

These agree

1 John 5:21 Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen

Lev 26:1 Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the LORD your God.

Acts 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone,
graven by art and man's device.

Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent

Rev 9:20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk

.

 

[Grailhunter]

Thats ridiculous its not an engraved image, Isaiah 44: 15-20, something graven that is considered God, even the Godhead

Acts 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

These things Paul was able to see in Athens

Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent

These had their wealth by the same

Acts 19:26 Moreover ye see and hear, that not alone at Ephesus, but almost throughout all Asia, this Paul hath persuaded and turned away much people, saying that they be no gods, which are made with hands

LOL God bless your heart.
You can look into it and apologize later.

 

[Muna]

LOL God bless your heart.
You can look into it and apologize later.

And God bless your heart Grailhunter, and I looked into it but my bible search engine wont cough up TV and computer (which we are both on). Picture, sure (love your avatar/picture by the way!) whats the guy forging?

Pictures, yes

Numbers 33:52 Then ye shall drive out all the inhabitants of the land from before you, and destroy all their pictures,
and destroy all their molten images, and quite pluck down all their high places

Every man in the "chambers of his imagery" yes

Ezekiel 8:12 Then said he unto me, Son of man, hast thou seen what the ancients of the house of Israel do in the dark,
every man in the chambers of his imagery? for they say, The LORD seeth us not; the LORD hath forsaken the earth.

The casting down of our imaginations, yes

2 Cr 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing
into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ

Idols in the heart, yes

Ezekiel 14:3 Son of man, these men have set up their idols in their heart, and put the stumblingblock of their iniquity
before their face: should I be enquired of at all by them?

As covetousness is also idolatry, yes

Col 3:5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection,
evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:

Idolizing men as gods, yes

Acts 14:15 And saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein:

TV and computer no, not in there.

However, I still dont watch TV (personal choice) but I do use my puter for studying for the most part,
but I also watch videos too.

 

[Grailhunter]

And God bless your heart Grailhunter, and I looked into it but my bible search engine wont cough up TV and computer (which we are both on). Picture, sure (love your avatar/picture by the way!) whats the guy forging?

Pictures, yes

Numbers 33:52 Then ye shall drive out all the inhabitants of the land from before you, and destroy all their pictures,
and destroy all their molten images, and quite pluck down all their high places

Every man in the "chambers of his imagery" yes

Ezekiel 8:12 Then said he unto me, Son of man, hast thou seen what the ancients of the house of Israel do in the dark,
every man in the chambers of his imagery? for they say, The LORD seeth us not; the LORD hath forsaken the earth.

The casting down of our imaginations, yes

2 Cr 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing
into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ

Idols in the heart, yes

Ezekiel 14:3 Son of man, these men have set up their idols in their heart, and put the stumblingblock of their iniquity
before their face: should I be enquired of at all by them?

As covetousness is also idolatry, yes

Col 3:5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection,
evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:

Idolizing men as gods, yes

Acts 14:15 And saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein:

TV and computer no, not in there.

However, I still dont watch TV (personal choice) but I do use my puter for studying for the most part,
but I also watch videos too.

forging a sword.

And God bless your heart Grailhunter, and I looked into it but my bible search engine wont cough up TV and computer (which we are both on). Picture, sure (love your avatar/picture by the way!) whats the guy forging?

Pictures, yes

Numbers 33:52 Then ye shall drive out all the inhabitants of the land from before you, and destroy all their pictures,
and destroy all their molten images, and quite pluck down all their high places

Every man in the "chambers of his imagery" yes

Ezekiel 8:12 Then said he unto me, Son of man, hast thou seen what the ancients of the house of Israel do in the dark,
every man in the chambers of his imagery? for they say, The LORD seeth us not; the LORD hath forsaken the earth.

The casting down of our imaginations, yes

2 Cr 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing
into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ

Idols in the heart, yes

Ezekiel 14:3 Son of man, these men have set up their idols in their heart, and put the stumblingblock of their iniquity
before their face: should I be enquired of at all by them?

As covetousness is also idolatry, yes

Col 3:5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection,
evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:

Idolizing men as gods, yes

Acts 14:15 And saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein:

TV and computer no, not in there.

However, I still dont watch TV (personal choice) but I do use my puter for studying for the most part,
but I also watch videos too.

You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth. Exodus 20:4 You are welcome.

The Johnny Appleseed of Truth
Be good and do good

 

[Muna]

forging a sword.

I knew it wasnt an idol, I was pulling your chain.

You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth. Exodus 20:4 You are welcome.

The Johnny Appleseed of Truth
Be good and do good

Exodus 20:4-25 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

Do you know anyone who has graven/carved themselves a TV in the likeness of anything in heaven above or earth beneath?

Its a box of wires that plugs into a wall.

I dont see how you can serve the thing, since the TV will typically serve the one with a remote

Not really seeing how God meant a TV where most people get their news, or weather or watch a game far away.

You turn it off if your conscience dissallows TV, or heck, just toss a a sheet over it when a program comes on, or throw it out and just listen to the radio.

I needn't worry bout that, I dont watch it.

 

[Grailhunter]

I knew it wasnt an idol, I was pulling your chain.


Exodus 20:4-25 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

Do you know anyone who has graven/carved themselves a TV in the likeness of anything in heaven above or earth beneath?

Its a box of wires that plugs into a wall.

I dont see how you can serve the thing, since the TV will typically serve the one with a remote

Not really seeing how God meant a TV where most people get their news, or weather or watch a game far away.

You turn it off if your conscience dissallows TV, or heck, just toss a a sheet over it when a program comes on, or throw it out and just listen to the radio.

I needn't worry bout that, I dont watch it.

Any man-made image of any thing.
You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth. Exodus 20:4
an idol, or any likeness
Look in any Jewish building and you will find no pictures or paintings or statues of people or animals

 

[Muna]

Any man-made image of any thing.
You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth. Exodus 20:4
an idol, or any likeness
Look in any Jewish building and you will find no pictures or paintings or statues of people or animals

I was going to say, I made a table, but then realized you are pressing these images things.

I think your trying to press this point with me as though I am tied in with any of those things. Your talking to someone who doesnt watch TV or decorates my home with pictures (one exception below) or has statutes of any kind, I don't. I dont even have a wedding ring or own a cross, I just don't have jewelry, I just dont have these. But its like you want me to wrest with you over it, and its not my beef.

The one exception is three pictures of our daughter who passed away when she was little, over one of the sofas in our living room. Even if I chose to take them down after all this time, my husband would never approve the removal of them and he is not a believer in God and wouldnt really care what you or I or anyone would say anyway.

Israelites burned incense to the Brasen serpent which God commanded Moses to make, and Hezekiah broke it because they were allowed to behold it (showing in a similitude) showing Christ, "look to him and live" but they began to burn incense to it and that was the end of that. The Orthodox church calls the brasen serpent an icon and and so an allowable thing to burn incense to (because they cense their idols/which they call icons) but if they are equating the brasen serpent as an icon, it got destroyed because they censed it, so that doesnt fly.

God is not talking about TV, but if you believe he is, throw it out (hey, better safe than sorry right?)

 

[Muna]

@Grailhunter I was asking AI a question for another thread and I thought, well., let me ask it about pictures in Jewish homes, here is how it responded.

Yes, many Jewish homes contain pictures, particularly of family members, religious figures, and Jewish-themed artwork. It is common for Jewish families to display photographs of their children, which are often kept for sentimental and commemorative reasons. Photos of respected rabbis and religious leaders, known as gedolim, are also frequently found in homes, especially within Orthodox and yeshivish communities, where they are believed to serve as a source of inspiration and spiritual guidance based on the idea that "your eyes will watch your teacher". This custom is thought to have roots in the Talmudic teaching that viewing one's teacher sharpens the mind and increases understanding.

In addition to personal and religious portraits, Jewish homes often feature artistic representations of Jewish themes, such as paintings by Marc Chagall, depictions of Jerusalem, or quotes from Psalms like "If I Forget Thee, O Jerusalem". Some homes also display a "Home Blessing" with a traditional inscription that invokes peace and blessings for the household. While there are halachic concerns about praying in the presence of images—such as the prohibition against bowing to pictures, even with closed eyes, due to the appearance of idolatry—these concerns do not generally extend to the general display of images in homes for personal or decorative purposes.

The presence of art and images in Jewish homes is now widespread and considered a normal part of Jewish life, though tensions can still exist, particularly in more traditional communities, regarding the appropriateness of certain depictions. Overall, the display of pictures in Jewish homes reflects a blend of personal, familial, and religious expression.

 

[Moontan13]

As a recitable prayer, the Lord's Prayer is a good prayer in my estimation if you take time to study it and understand all the meaning. In trying to get my prayer life improving, I have to consider written prayers of my own making. I have trouble remembering and my mind wanders off track. So, is written and read back OK. What about a prayer in a book that really reflects what you're thinking?

 

[Grailhunter]

I was going to say, I made a table, but then realized you are pressing these images things.

I think your trying to press this point with me as though I am tied in with any of those things. Your talking to someone who doesnt watch TV or decorates my home with pictures (one exception below) or has statutes of any kind, I don't. I dont even have a wedding ring or own a cross, I just don't have jewelry, I just dont have these. But its like you want me to wrest with you over it, and its not my beef.

The one exception is three pictures of our daughter who passed away when she was little, over one of the sofas in our living room. Even if I chose to take them down after all this time, my husband would never approve the removal of them and he is not a believer in God and wouldnt really care what you or I or anyone would say anyway.

Israelites burned incense to the Brasen serpent which God commanded Moses to make, and Hezekiah broke it because they were allowed to behold it (showing in a similitude) showing Christ, "look to him and live" but they began to burn incense to it and that was the end of that. The Orthodox church calls the brasen serpent an icon and and so an allowable thing to burn incense to (because they cense their idols/which they call icons) but if they are equating the brasen serpent as an icon, it got destroyed because they censed it, so that doesnt fly.

God is not talking about TV, but if you believe he is, throw it out (hey, better safe than sorry right?)

You are taking this the wrong way and out of context. I am not accusing you of breaking Jewish laws because the Jewish laws do not pertain to Christians. Some of the basic morals do but there are some horrendous laws that do not pertain to Christians. Christians do not have idols but have no restrictions on engraved images.

The restrictions on engraved images pertained to those in the Old Testament but as time went on the Jews reinterpreted the law on engraved images. Now a days Jews have televisions and computers and such and have family albums and wedding pictures etc. Then again in their synagogues you will not see pictures and paintings and statues of people or animals.

 

[David Lamb]

Israel was under covenant......the covenant was conditional with if you do this then/if you dont then
The forgiveness under covenant was not for eternal life. God would not forgive them to be blameless to enter the kingdom

But Israel had already been chosen as the people of God.

 

[Marvelloustime]

wanna hear something so lovely .
I have zero problem with the way paul wrote . IT sure has helped me , AS HAS EVERY THING JESUS ever spoke
that was recorded in the gospels and in revleation . As well as EVERY word the writer of hebrews wrote
as james , as pe ter , as jude , as john .
ITS MEN that cloud things and only those who love to hear twisted things will sit under such men .
WHY COME
or in proper english
HOW COME i seem to love and beleive ALL THINGS WRITTEN IN THAT BIBLE
now that is a question i have for every man , woman and child .
NOW WHY IS THAT .
How come i dont sit under pauline
How come i dont try and pit apostel against apostel
HOW COME i dont t ry and say OH certain things JESUS said apply ONLY TO JEWS
or was for another time , BUT RATHER BELEIVE THEM ALL and KNOW THEY ARE MEAT FOR MY SOUL
as was everything they all would write .
Allow me to introduce us to THE GRACE OF GOD and that grace DONT TRY AND OMIT ONE SINGLE WORD OF TRUTH .
and here you all might have thought i was gonna try and give me some kind of credit .
NO SIR . GOD DID THIS . what you are witnessing is the CHANGE GOD PUT UPON MY HEART .
I SHUN THE ALL INCLUSIVE INTERFAITH DOCTRINE TO HADES . and do feel free to ask my why that is as well .
WHY does a man who wont bend , wont omit , wont try and alter one word GOD INSPIRED in that bible
SO DARN ADAMANENT against the love so many are now in love and in bed with .
CAUSE IT BE OF SATAN and HIS WHORE
and it does naught but lead the decieved to the day of their own destruction . I will have no part with its unity
its kingdom , its love or its hope , i shall not trust in its god either , its presidents of either side for both do its will .
Many love to hear twisted things that suit their own hearts desires .
SHEEP , WELL THEY LOVE TRUTH . EVERY WORD OF GOD IS TRUTH

@amigo de christo

 

[amigo de christo]

But Israel had already been chosen as the people of God.

God has chosen Israel as the people of GOD .
but not all of israel is of ISRAEL .
pray and ponder on that my friend .
For the children after the flesh are NOT the children of GOD .
ITS all about CHRIST JESUS . Paul being a jew , a born a gain jew , knew this .

 

[Marvelloustime]

God has chosen Israel as the people of GOD .
but not all of israel is of ISRAEL .
pray and ponder on that my friend .
For the children after the flesh are NOT the children of GOD .
ITS all about CHRIST JESUS . Paul being a jew , a born a gain jew , knew this .

@amigo de christo