Your missing the point, if he tells us to look there whether its them or us we look, we look if we are trying to show if something was already fulfilled or not, and prove these things out for a bettter understanding, its a part of building the doctrine through the scriptures that we adhere to, even according to the very truth you just pointed out.
Not a future seeing Jesus coming guy
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Your missing the point, if he tells us to look there whether its them or us we look, we look if we are trying to show if something was already fulfilled or not, and prove these things out for a bettter understanding, its a part of building the doctrine through the scriptures that we adhere to, even according to the very truth you just pointed out.
This was not the point of Jesus. He did not want His disciples to "academically" speculate for 2,000 years if something was fulfilled or not.
He gave them a practical and certain warning:
“So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’ spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak...
...Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door. Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.
Fetch what Daniel spoke about because he was giving the prophets a witness concerning what he wrote already
He referred them to what Daniel had written, who saw things he himself did not understand, and there Jesus says, "let the reader understand"
You know, that if I asked you for a summary of your eschatology from start to finish (and where it comes from) that goes for you and anyone else, they would just hand me (if they could) a long list of how you (or your particular church) lego together what it is you believe, and why, and thats I am talking about. Putting the pieces together.
Ah, now I understand your point. You think Jesus is saying this and it confuses you. No, this is a note by the author of the gospel. Jesus was not talking to readers/us. And the author of the gospel was talking to the 1st century readers.
I try to minimize my eschatology, exactly because I do not want to create needless speculations. When I stick only to the teachings of the first church, then preterism is the only working eschatology. Futurism needs to go back to the Old Testament and built a Lego unknown to the first church.
No I was referring to not understanding as shown in Daniel and what is sealed
Dan 12:8-9 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things? And he said,
Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.
And what the reader can now understand in contrast to Daniel.
I have seen preterists things, they lego things together too, all doctrines and eschatologies do. I never read one that did not. Whether correctly or incorrectly, each party believes they have correctly lego'd their stuff and tells us, "I am thus and such" because, "here are my lego's"
I am no longer following you...
Hard to react to "I have seen preterists [sic] things, they do xyz". Did I lego'd something beyond what the New Testament says?I have seen preterists things, they lego things together too, all doctrines and eschatologies do. I never read one that did not. Whether correctly or incorrectly, each party believes they have correctly lego'd their stuff and tells us, "I am thus and such" because, "here are my lego's"
Daniel heard not understand, and he was told to move along (did not apply to him) but when Jesus brings their attention back to Daniel it says let him the readeth understand. That was not given to Daniel, and now here Jesus is quoting Daniel and that is "let"
I did not say you have personally lego'd (You hate legos! haha) I said if I asked you for a list of your beliefs as a preterist (for example) if I received it in my hand there would be ton of "legoing" (as I jest) as with any other eschatalogy as presented, because all of them will use the scriptures from various places (piecing them together) to show what they believe and why they do. And the New testament contains quotes from the Old Testament, and I am certain when proving preterism that you have to eliminate what you are not talking about (especially when conversing with others who hold different beliefs from the same scriptures). If you are debating them in otherwords.
Being online for over 20 years I have come across peoples graphs and lists of lego'd scripture built to show me (as we do one another) why each of us thinks we are right. Its a natural thing, and in the midst of discourse we may or may not change our minds.
May the best legoer win! (maybe not) but if someone can put together their things and make sense of places where something might be unclear (and are correct as it can be proven out) thats just a big win for everyone.
I am still not sure what you are trying to say.
Even though it may be true that nobody is 100% without this issue, some eschatological views need much more of it by design and cannot even survive without it.
But keep in mind that just giving a list of verses is not what I mean. I mean cherry picking verses to create something different from the teaching of the New Testament. To create a different view from the view of the apostles. As I said in the post #454:
That is where the authority of the apostles comes in. We are not supposed to build eschatology, they did.
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Maybe it was inspired chicken scratch to you, but to me I think it fits
I'm sure some have more and others less, but is it lego'd correctly?
And its not just eschatology either, because you can say a very truth, with a single scripture but you can say the same thing in a sermon with a collection of things written down and put together in a way that really brings it home for other.
Its all good HealthyShape, one day I hope to see all your legoing!
In summary - Bible was not written in a systematic way. There is plenty of ambiguous texts, ambiguous prophecies, metaphors in which one can see anything etc.Maybe it was inspired chicken scratch to you, but to me I think it fits
I'm sure some have more and others less, but is it lego'd correctly?
And its not just eschatology either, because you can say a very truth, with a single scripture but you can say the same thing in a sermon with a collection of things written down and put together in a way that really brings it home for other.
Its all good HealthyShape, one day I hope to see all your legoing!
So, in a way, I agree with you that whoever wants to even work with the Bible, needs to do some "Lego construction". And my view is that only Jesus and the apostles had the authority/were inspired to do that.
And BTW, that is also why I do not like most sermons.
I do not know if I can show my legoing, I can show you the list of verses proving preterism or some cultural context to some verses, but that is probably all. I have no strong dogmatic opinions on what this or that prophecy meant, I have no charts, I have no "systematic eschatology" etc.
I am with you on that sermon thing, but I do love watching people connect the dots in the scripture correctly when I can find it. I love doing that myself. If I could chose between a two week vacation on a Island or just staying home undistracted and dig through the scriptures doing that I would chose the later, theres nothing more awesome to me than doing just that.
And you know, I was just busting on you with showing your legoing.
I have never said Lego so many times in my entire life since I met you hating on them lol
But who can say that it is correct if not Jesus and the apostles?
Me neither. Using "a puzzle theology" next time?
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Marvelloustime
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Marvelloustime
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Marvelloustime
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Their words are scripture, and that what the scriptures are for. They are for our correction concerning doctrine
2 Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness
The church is built upon the foundation of all the same
Ephes 2:21 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone
Certainly not bubble belly buddha and muhammad
You know, HS, I was looking at Judas just recently (for example) and trying to click in place various pieces of all of what pertains to him in Psalm 109:8 and the NT and elsewhere by examining the places where they could be possibly found, thats quite a puzzle. I do not see where there is an allegorical aproach to him as prophesied of him as we might take with Abrahams two women (covenantally) where we can compare spiritual things with spiritual but that shows itself to be more of a puzzle where various pieces come together in him ( at least to me).
