Refuting Losing Salvation! (A)

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Netchaplain

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Galatians 5:4 “Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.” “Whosoever” is not a confirmation but a supposition, thus it can be, it’s as if you have fallen from grace. These Galatians were attempting to be saved by the Law and Christianity. From what Paul said it can be seen that these Galatians had not fully decided to continue this error, mixing the Law with Christianity, which is impossible (Gal 5:10). It’s obvious they were more vulnerable than the other Galatians. Although they were still saved (but ignorant), it should also be realized that Christianity and the Law were new to all the Galatians, and they were also obviously susceptible to the knowledge of the Law. “Who did hinder you from obeying the truth?” The disobedience to the truth was, again, that they were trying to mix law with grace, which I believe they finally understood the impossibility of, from Paul showing them truth. “Should not obey the truth” is less convicting than “did not obey the truth.” “Should not” is not confirmative as “did not.” (NC)



Albert Barnes: Gal 5:4 “Ye are fallen from grace” - This passage does not prove that anyone who has ever been a true Christian has fallen away. The fair interpretation of the passage does not demand that. Its simple and obvious meaning is, that if a man who has been a professed Christian should be justified by his own conformity to the Law, and adopt that mode of justification, then that would amount to a rejection of the mode of salvation by Christ, and would be a renouncing of the plan of justification by grace. The two systems cannot be united. The adoption of the one is, in fact, a rejection of the other. Christ will be “a whole Savior,” or none. This passage, therefore cannot be adduced to prove that any true Christian has in fact fallen away from grace, unless it proves also that man may be justified by the deeds of the Law, contrary to the repeated declarations of Paul himself. The word “grace” here, does not mean grace in the sense of personal religion, it means the “system” of salvation by grace, in contradistinction from that by merit or by works.”


Albert Barnes: Heb 6:6 “If they shall fall away . . .” “That is, this would amount to apostasy from the religion of the Redeemer, and would be in fact a rejection of the grace of the gospel. That this had ever in fact occurred among true Christians the apostle does not affirm unless he affirmed that people can in fact be justified by the Law, since he makes the falling from grace a consequence of that. But did Paul mean to teach that? Did he mean to affirm that any man in fact had been, or could be justified by his own obedience to the Law? Let his own writings answer; see, especially, Romans 3:20. But unless he held that, then this passage does not prove that anyone who has ever been a true Christian has fallen away.

“The fair interpretation of the passage does not demand that. The simple and obvious meaning is, that if a man who has been a professed Christian should be justified by his own conformity to the Law, and adopt that mode of justification, then that would amount to a rejection of the mode of salvation by Christ, and would be a renouncing of the plan of justification by grace. The two systems cannot be united. The adoption of the one is, in fact, a rejection of the other. Christ will be “a whole Savior,” or none. This passage, therefore, cannot be adduced to prove that any true Christian has in fact fallen away from grace, unless it proves also that man may be justified by the deeds of the Law, contrary to the repeated declarations of Paul himself. The word “grace” here, does not mean grace in the sense of personal religion, it means the “system” of salvation by grace, in contradistinction from that by merit or by works.”

“It is not an affirmation that any had actually fallen away, or that in fact they would do it; but the statement is, that “on the supposition that they had fallen away,” it would be impossible to renew them again (it would require re-sacrificing the Lord Jesus, an impossibility—NC). It is the same as supposing a case which in fact might never occur: as if we should say, “had a man fallen down a precipice it would be impossible to save him,” or “had the child fallen into the stream he would certainly have been drowned.” But though this literally means, “having fallen away,” yet the sense in the connection in which it stands is not improperly expressed by our common translation. The Syriac has given a version which is remarkable, not as a correct translation, but as showing what was the prevailing belief in the time in which it was made, (probably the first or second century), in regard to the doctrine of the perseverance of the saints. “For it is impossible that they who have been baptized, and who have tasted the gift which is from heaven, and have received the spirit of holiness, and have tasted the good word of God, and the power of the coming age, should again sin, so that they should be renewed again to repentance, and again crucify the Son of God and put him to ignominy.

“Here it means undoubtedly to “apostatize from” (apostates were never saved—NC) and implies an entire renunciation of Christianity, or a going back to a state of Judaism, paganism, or sin. The Greek word occurs nowhere else in the New Testament. It is material to remark here that the apostle does not say that any true Christian ever had fallen away. He makes a statement of what would occur on the supposition that such a thing should happen - but a statement may be made of what would occur on the supposition that a certain thing should take place, and yet it be morally certain that the event never would happen. It would be easy to suppose what would happen if the ocean should overflow a continent, or if the sun should cease to rise, and still there be entire certainty that such an event never would occur.
 

marks

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Galatians 5:4 “Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.”
I understand this to mean that these are fallen from grace as the means of living out our Christian life. We cannot "walk in the Spirit" by working our way into it, this is by grace through faith only. We cannot "put on Christ" by working our way in. Only by grace through faith, unless you are fallen from grace, trying to gain spiritual fruit purchased by works.

Romans 5:1-2 KJV
1) Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
2) By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Much love!
 

Netchaplain

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I understand this to mean that these are fallen from grace as the means of living out our Christian life.
I agree with all in you said! If one "falls," it's not from grace, but from a false profession of Grace!
 

marks

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I agree with all in you said! If one "falls," it's not from grace, but from a false profession of Grace!
I'm more saying that someone can be born again, and living in God's grace. Then that person becomes convinced for whatever reason that they now have to be circumsized, or they now have to quit smoking, or they now have to do this or that, in order to become mature, or to "remain saved", and having once relied solely upon the Holy Spirit, they've now come to rely on them self. They've fallen from grace, referring to God's working in them based solely on the reconciliation bought by Jesus.

Just like we trust in Jesus to be justified, so also we trust in Jesus to be sanctified, and to mature. Falling from grace, that is, going from trusting in Jesus to thinking we have to do works doesn't cost us salvation. But it can stall us in our growth.

Much love!
 

Netchaplain

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I'm more saying that someone can be born again, and living in God's grace. Then that person becomes convinced for whatever reason that they now have to be circumsized, or they now have to quit smoking, or they now have to do this or that, in order to become mature, or to "remain saved", and having once relied solely upon the Holy Spirit, they've now come to rely on them self. They've fallen from grace, referring to God's working in them based solely on the reconciliation bought by Jesus.

Just like we trust in Jesus to be justified, so also we trust in Jesus to be sanctified, and to mature. Falling from grace, that is, going from trusting in Jesus to thinking we have to do works doesn't cost us salvation. But it can stall us in our growth.

Much love!
Not sure what you're trying to say Brother.
 

marks

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Not sure what you're trying to say Brother.
That "fallen from grace" refers to the born again Christian who has stopped relying 100% on God to keep them in His favor, and now relies on what they do keep them in God's favor.

Much love!
 

Netchaplain

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That "fallen from grace" refers to the born again Christian who has stopped relying 100% on God to keep them in His favor, and now relies on what they do keep them in God's favor.

Much love!
Thanks, I see what you mean. I think if we look from the perspective of eternal life, it's plainly seen that eternal life can't be taken away, because it's eternal! (if that addresses your reply)
 

marks

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Thanks, I see what you mean. I think if we look from the perspective of eternal life, it's plainly seen that eternal life can't be taken away, because it's eternal! (if that addresses your reply)
I'm in 100% agreement!

Whether you are looking at falling from grace as something unbelievers do when they reject God's reconciliation, or if you see it as something believers do when they are not trusting in God, I fully agree with you that when we are regenerated, that's forever.

Just like we cannot be "unborn" from our parents, neither will we be "unborn" from God. We can't make that happen, and He says it won't.

Much love!
 

marks

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The question is when does this "forever regeneration" take place?

John 1:12-13 KJV
12) But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13) Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Romans 6:3-4 KJV
3) Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4) Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

2 Corinthians 5:17-18 KJV
17) Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
18) And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

1 Peter 1:22-23 KJV
22) Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
23) Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

1 John 3:1-2 KJV
1) Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2) Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

Titus 3:5 KJV
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

When would you say it happens?

I would answer it is when we are baptized into Christ, when we believe, and receive Him.

Much love!
 

Jay Ross

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I would answer it is when we are baptized into Christ, when we believe, and receive Him.

But the Prophet Ezekiel suggested that it was possible for a righteous man to lose his salvation and not live but die the second death simply by turning away from God.

There are many who believe that they are righteous but, even though they can quote many scriptures to support their POV, there heart displays a very different future outcome.
 
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marks

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But the Prophet Ezekiel suggested that it was possible for a righteous man to lose his salvation and not live but die the second death simply by turning away from God.
Ezekiel did not say one could "lose his salvation . . . by turning away from God".

Under the covenant that God made with Israel at Mt Horeb,

Ezekiel 18:21-24 KJV
21) But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
22) All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.
23) Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?
24) But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.

We do not define one covenant by the terms of a different covenant.

Much love!
 

Jay Ross

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Ezekiel did not say one could "lose his salvation . . . by turning away from God".

Under the covenant that God made with Israel at Mt Horeb,

Ezekiel 18:21-24 KJV
21) But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
22) All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.
23) Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?
24) But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.

We do not define one covenant by the terms of a different covenant.

Much love!

Mark what is the outcome for a person if they turn away from God/Christ?

Will their name not be found in the Book of Life?
 
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ProverbsInPink

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Thanks, I see what you mean. I think if we look from the perspective of eternal life, it's plainly seen that eternal life can't be taken away, because it's eternal! (if that addresses your reply)
I think that's what seperates the goats from the sheep.
The goats are exposed when they insist they can choose to contradict what God ordains as a fact through his word.
 
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marks

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Mark what is the outcome for a person if they turn away from God/Christ?

Will their name not be found in the Book of Life?
Speaking hypothetically? Hypotheticals are not real. Who is this person who is regenerated, born again, a new creation, sealed by the Holy Spirit unto the day when God takes possession of His purchase?

We can pretend that people who are baptized into Christ may be dumped back out, but the Bible speaks otherwise.

For instance,

1 John 3:1-3 KJV
1) Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2) Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3) And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

If you are God's son now, you shall be like Him when you see Him.

Much love!
 
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Netchaplain

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Just like we cannot be "unborn" from our parents, neither will we be "unborn" from God. We can't make that happen, and He says it won't.
Amen, and everyone reborn will always choose to please God, because He works this in everyone reborn (Phl 2:13)!
 
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