I will raise them on the last day.

[Marty fox]

Marty, the Scripture evidence has been given to you.

EXAMPLE: pre-trib rapture is a FULL BLOWN LIE from satan and those who love that error will NEVER submit to the words of CHRIST and the Apostles and the OT Prophets = but they will make excuses even to the point of "adding to God's words what HE never said and denying the CLEAR Truth that HE did Say"

EVIDENCE: Matt ch24 and Hebrews 9:28 and many more

SHALOM

Once again I have no idea what your saying here and it has nothing to do with what I have repeatly asked you as you haven't proven anything with scripture so I'm out.

I don't mean any offence here but I'm not even sure if your just playing with me here or being serious.


I don't believe in a pretrib rapture either

 

[David in NJ]

I have also asked him similar questions, so stop wasting your time on that. He obviously is not interested in explaining how he is coming to the conclusion that Adam's age has anything to do with the thousand years of Revelation 20. So, we just have to assume he is making that up in his imagination. Otherwise, he should have no problem explaining it.

Hey now - no false accusations allowed.

Adam lived a literal 930 Years = unless you think that God "made this up"

 

[David in NJ]

Once again I have no idea what your saying here and it has nothing to do with what I have repeatly asked you as you haven't proven anything with scripture so I'm out.


I don't believe in a pretrib rapture either

i know you do dnot believe pre-trib

It is the SAME application to 1,000 years = understanding comes AFTER we receive the words of God

Hebrews 11:1-3
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. For by it the elders obtained a good report.

Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

 

[complete]

Are you saying that Adam didn't have an eternal spirit?

We all are body spirit, and soul and Adam died spiritually like we all do when we first sin

Hello @Marty fox,

'And so it is written,
The first man Adam was made a living soul;
the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual,
but that which is natural;
and afterward that which is spiritual.
The first man is of the earth, earthy:
the second man is the Lord from heaven.'
(1Co 15:45-47)

Adam was not spiritual, so he cannot be said to have died spiritually. That is what I am saying. He was made of the dust of the ground, and God breathed into his body the breath of life, and he became a living soul. A living person in other words.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The answer to that is real simple and plainly obvious. Unless of course one's doctrinal bias' are preventing one from seeing the obvious. Had Adam lived more than 1K years that would indicate that God had lied to him when He told him this--for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die(Genesis 2:17).

Obviously, a day consisting of 24 hours is not meant, the fact Adam did not die within 24 hours of eating thereof. It shouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that we then need to take a day to be involving an era of time consisting of more than 24 hours, in this case. And that 2 Peter 3:8, for instance, has since interpreted this for us, that the era of time this day represents is 1K years.

LOL. You guys don't realize how ridiculous you come across with this nonsense of trying to relate Adam's age when he died to the thousands years of Revelation 20. In no way, shape or form is there any correlation between the two. You are trying to say that God was telling him he would die "in the thousand years that thou eatest therof"? LOL! Get serious.

Are you somehow not aware of spiritual death in terms of being dead in sins? The concept of written about several times in scripture. The very day that Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit, they died spiritually in terms of becoming spiritually dead in their sins. That is what Genesis 2:17 is primarily about, though it did eventually result in their physical deaths as well. But, it certainly had nothing to do with them physically dying within a thousand years.

But look at the way a lot of interpreters interpret 2 Peter 3:8, that it simply means God is outside of time. Really? We wouldn't already know that from the OT alone, therefore, making us ignorant of that fact until 2 Peter 3:8 was penned?

Wow. Your bias comes through with every comment you make. The context of 2 Peter 3:8 is in relation to how long it was taking for Jesus to come again, so, yes, it does relate to God being outside of time. The main point Peter was making is not the God exists outside of time, but rather because God exists outside of time, it can't be said that the Lord is being slow to fulfill the promise of His second coming.

2 Peter 3:8 But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

You can't try to interpret 2 Peter 3:8 in isolation without looking at the context by also looking at verse 9. The reason Peter wrote what he did in verse 8 is shown in verse 9. Since the Lord exists outside of time, no one can claim He is being slack (slow) to fulfill His promise since one day and a thousand years make no difference to Him. No amount of time makes any difference to Him from His eternal perspective, so no matter how long He waits to return, no one can claim that He is being too slow to return.

Some argue one day can mean 10,000 years, a million years, etc, since God doesn't view time like man does. As if God is going to violate the very 'time' He created. As if there is no such thing to God as a literal 1K years.

Yes, that's a very valid argument. Why would you try to argue with it as if God does view time like man does? No, He clearly does not from His eternal perspective.

For example. Jesus was in the heart of the earth for 3 days and 3 nights. Since God is outside of time, BTW no one is disputing that, and since one day to God is as a thousand years, can allegedly also mean 10K years, even 1 million years, etc, this should mean God views this 3 days and 3 nights in the same manner.

LOL! Do you have any understanding of context at all? Clearly, the context of that reference is in relation to 3 literal days and nights from a finite, earthly perspective. But, 2 Peter 3:8 is clearly not talking about a finite, earthly perspective because it's talking about God's perspective of time. Why else do you think that Peter said the Lord can't be accused of being slow to fulfill His promise to come again except besides the fact that it's not possible for Him to be too slow to fulfill that promise from His eternal perspective?

That to God it could maybe mean 300 days and nights, 3k days and nights, so on and so on. after all, God is outside of time, right? If one can't see the problem here, I guess I can't help them.

The key then is this--one day = an era of time, and this same era of time = one day. And the following analogy proves it. One day = an era of time consisting of 24 hours, and this same era of time consisting of 24 hours = one day. Which would look like this in 2 Peter 3:8--- One day = an era of time consisting of 1K years, and this same era of time consisting of 1K years = one day. And no, even to God 1000 years can't mean 10K years, or even a million years. The same way to God that a 24 hour day can't mean a 48 hour day, nor a million hour day, etc. God does not violate the very 'time' He created just because He is outside of time. 24 hours still means 24 hours, 1k years still mean 1k years, regardless.

Good grief. Do you really think that 2 Peter 3:8 is saying that one day is exactly equivalent to 1,000 years from God's perspective? You know that's not true, right? You are acknowledging He is outside of time, so how would it be possible that one day would be exactly equal to 1000 years to Him? That makes no sense from His eternal perspective. No amount of time makes any difference to Him from His eternal perspective. One day and a million years are no different to Him. It says one day IS AS a thousand years to Him, not one day is equal to a thousand years.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

i know you do dnot believe pre-trib

It is the SAME application to 1,000 years = understanding comes AFTER we receive the words of God

Hebrews 11:1-3
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. For by it the elders obtained a good report.

Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

If someone asked you to explain why you believe in post-trib, you would just show the scriptures which clearly teach that, right? You wouldn't just try to say that's just the way it is and it's a mystery that you must spiritually discern. So, why are you not willing to back up your understanding of the thousand years similarly? Instead, you make it out to be a mystery that can't be explained clearly using scripture the way post-trib can.

 

[David in NJ]

If someone asked you to explain why you believe in post-trib, you would just show the scriptures which clearly teach that, right? You wouldn't just try to say that's just the way it is and it's a mystery that you must spiritually discern. So, why are you not willing to back up your understanding of the thousand years similarly? Instead, you make it out to be a mystery that can't be explained clearly using scripture the way post-trib can.

God Spoke JUST the WAY it IS = GENESIS = Adam lived a LITERAL 930 years on earth

You cannot get anymore of a STRICT, MATTER of FACT TRUTH then that!!!

SHALOM

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Simple

God created man in His image = Male/Female
The Man and his Wife became ONE flesh when God created them and HE created them in Marriage = Prophetic Image of CHRIST and the Church
God created Man to Walk with HIM together, on earth for 1,000 Years = CLEARLY seen in Adam living 930 literal years

BIG PROBLEM = Adam sinned and fell short of the GLORY intended for him = 70 years short of 1,000 years

SomeONE had to make UP for the lost 70 Years

SHALOM Marty

@Nancy, i believe you SEE this???

Where does scripture itself teach that "God created Man to Walk with HIM together, on earth for 1,000 Years"? I don't see that taught anywhere. Adam living for 930 years certainly does not prove that theory. Are you suggesting that if Adam hadn't sinned he would have died at 1000 years old rather than 930 years old? If so, what is that based on? I would think that he would have never died if he never sinned since he died because he sinned.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

God Spoke JUST the WAY it IS = GENESIS = Adam lived a LITERAL 930 years on earth

You cannot get anymore of a STRICT, MATTER of FACT TRUTH then that!!!

SHALOM

LOL. This is one of the weakest arguments I've ever seen. I, of course, am not denying that Adam lived a literal 930 years on earth. Why are you talking to me as if I denied that? Are you purposely trying to misrepresent what I believe? As anyone here can see, what I'm denying is that Adam's age when he died has anything to do with the thousand years of Revelation 20. Saying that he lived 930 years is not proof at all of anything one way or another in relation to the thousand years of Revelation 20.

 

[David in NJ]

Where does scripture itself teach that "God created Man to Walk with HIM together, on earth for 1,000 Years"?

And they heard the [c]sound of the Lord God walking in the garden in the [d]cool of the day, and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God among the trees of the garden.

9Then the Lord God called to Adam and said to him, “Where are you?”

10So he said, “I heard Your voice in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; and I hid myself.”

11And He said, “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree of which I commanded you that you should not eat?”

12Then the man said, “The woman whom You gave to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I ate.”

13And the Lord God said to the woman, “What is this you have done?”

The woman said, “The serpent deceived me, and I ate.”

14So the Lord God said to the serpent:

“Because you have done this,
You are cursed more than all cattle,
And more than every beast of the field;
On your belly you shall go,
And you shall eat dust
All the days of your life.
15And I will put enmity
Between you and the woman,
And between your seed and her Seed;
He shall bruise your head,
And you shall bruise His heel.”
16To the woman He said:

“I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception;
In pain you shall bring forth children;
Your desire shall be for your husband,
And he shall rule over you.”
17Then to Adam He said, “Because you have heeded the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree of which I commanded you, saying, ‘You shall not eat of it’:

“Cursed is the ground for your sake;
In toil you shall eat of it
All the days of your life.
18Both thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you,
And you shall eat the herb of the field.
19In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread
Till you return to the ground,
For out of it you were taken;
For dust you are,
And to dust you shall return.”
20And Adam called his wife’s name Eve, because she was the mother of all living.

21Also for Adam and his wife the Lord God made tunics of skin, and clothed them.

22Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”— 23therefore the Lord God sent him out of the garden of Eden to till the ground from which he was taken. 24So He drove out the man; and He placed cherubim at the east of the garden of Eden, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to guard the way to the tree of life.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Hey now - no false accusations allowed.

Adam lived a literal 930 Years = unless you think that God "made this up"

When did I deny that Adam lived a literal 930 years? Never. I agree that he lived a literal 930 years and never came close to saying otherwise. Why are you acting as if I claimed that when everyone else here can clearly see that I never claimed such a thing?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

And they heard the [c]sound of the Lord God walking in the garden in the [d]cool of the day, and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God among the trees of the garden.

9Then the Lord God called to Adam and said to him, “Where are you?”

10So he said, “I heard Your voice in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; and I hid myself.”

11And He said, “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree of which I commanded you that you should not eat?”

12Then the man said, “The woman whom You gave to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I ate.”

13And the Lord God said to the woman, “What is this you have done?”

The woman said, “The serpent deceived me, and I ate.”

14So the Lord God said to the serpent:

“Because you have done this,
You are cursed more than all cattle,
And more than every beast of the field;
On your belly you shall go,
And you shall eat dust
All the days of your life.
15And I will put enmity
Between you and the woman,
And between your seed and her Seed;
He shall bruise your head,
And you shall bruise His heel.”
16To the woman He said:

“I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception;
In pain you shall bring forth children;
Your desire shall be for your husband,
And he shall rule over you.”
17Then to Adam He said, “Because you have heeded the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree of which I commanded you, saying, ‘You shall not eat of it’:

“Cursed is the ground for your sake;
In toil you shall eat of it
All the days of your life.
18Both thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you,
And you shall eat the herb of the field.
19In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread
Till you return to the ground,
For out of it you were taken;
For dust you are,
And to dust you shall return.”
20And Adam called his wife’s name Eve, because she was the mother of all living.

21Also for Adam and his wife the Lord God made tunics of skin, and clothed them.

22Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”— 23therefore the Lord God sent him out of the garden of Eden to till the ground from which he was taken. 24So He drove out the man; and He placed cherubim at the east of the garden of Eden, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to guard the way to the tree of life.

Nothing there at all about God creating man to live on earth for a thousand years. Let me know if you ever want to be serious about this particular topic. At this point you are not offering any serious arguments to back up your belief that Adam's age when he died has something to do with the thousand years of Revelation 20.

 

[David in NJ]

Nothing there at all about God creating man to live on earth for a thousand years.

#1 - Where in the Scriptures did God ever, even once, say: man SHALL NOT live a literal 1,000 years???

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

#1 - Where in the Scriptures did God ever, even once, say: man SHALL NOT live a literal 1,000 years???

LOL. Nowhere, of course. Where does it say that man shall not live a literal 2,000 years? Nowhere. What is the point?

Imagine if you tried to support your post-trib belief (which I share) with the kind of arguments you use to support Premil. No one would take you seriously about your post-trib belief in that case. But, instead, I have seen you use convincing arguments to back up your post-trib belief using clear scriptures that support post-trib. But, when it comes to your Premil belief you come up with ridiculous stuff like this to try to support it. I don't get it.

 

[David in NJ]

LOL. Nowhere, of course. Where does it say that man shall not liver a literal 2,000 years? Nowhere. What is the point?

You just solidified God's POINT = HE Said man SHALL rule and reign with CHRIST for 1,000 Years on earth.

God OPENLY displayed it on earth with Adam, but because of SIN, Adam fell short by 70 years.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You just solidified God's POINT = HE Said man SHALL rule and reign with CHRIST for 1,000 Years on earth.

LOL! No, He did not ever say that. Why are you making things up?

God OPENLY displayed it on earth with Adam, but because of SIN, Adam fell short by 70 years.

LOL. Are you saying that you think if Adam didn't sin he would have died at 1,000 years old? If so, why would he have died if he didn't sin?

 

[David in NJ]

LOL! No, He did not ever say that. Why are you making things up?


LOL. Are you saying that you think if Adam didn't sin he would have died at 1,000 years old? If so, why would he have died if he didn't sin?

LOL = YES HE DID = GENESIS and REVELATION

I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands.
They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

LOL = YES HE DID = GENESIS and REVELATION

Where? Genesis certainly says nothing about the thousand years and you are not doing anything to show otherwise.

I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands.
They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Where does it say that takes place on earth? John saw the souls of martyrs. Where would their souls be located? Heaven. It does not say they bodily came to life. It says they lived and reigned with Christ. There are the souls of the dead in Christ in heaven reigning with Christ right now.

 

[David in NJ]

Where? Genesis certainly says nothing about the thousands years and you are not doing anything to show otherwise.

930 years that was CUT-SHORT because of SIN = only 70 years short of 1,000

70/1000 = 0.07 = 7% = "for God so loved the world HE gave His only begotten Son"

Where does it say that takes place on earth?

GENESIS, GOSPEL, REVELATION

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

930 years that was CUT-SHORT because of SIN = only 70 years short of 1,000

70/1000 = 0.07 = 7% = "for God so loved the world HE gave His only begotten Son"


GENESIS, GOSPEL, REVELATION

Let me know if you want to share a serious argument about this. I can't take this 930 years stuff seriously. And you won't even answer any of my questions. You say that Adam's life was cut short of 1,000 because of his sin. Does that mean you think he would have lived 1,000 years and then died instead? Is this question too hard for you to answer? If not, can you please just answer it? Why are you unwilling to make any attempt to clarify what in the world your point is here?