Should you help the wicked and love those who hate the Lord? Because of this, wrath has gone out against you from the Lord.

[amigo de christo]

No need to be. I'm not at all easily offended. Though I've been known to point to comments I think are inappropriate, but not to express offense, just to try and bring discussion to a higher level.


Walking in the Spirit is taught to us that we will be as God describes here:

Galatians 5:22-24 KJV
22) But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23) Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
24) And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

Patience, gentleness, meekness, self-control, this is what the person who is walking in the Spirit will show.


I woudn't know why that would be.



Personally I think that the one who is walking in the Spirit will find greater understanding, not less.

Help them do wickedness? Or help them to stop doing wickedness? Love them for their evil, or love them as the Lord loves,

Matthew 5:44-48 KJV
44) But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
45) That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
46) For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
47) And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
48) Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Doing good to all men, regardless of who they are. God gives rain and sun to the just and unjust, and continuing to provide the unjust with food in this way allows them to continue in their evil. But God doesn't leave it there, He condemns their evil, and has sent Jesus to save even them also, if they will repent and believe.



I'm not planning to speak for them.

I of course have based my comments on the book I read, the English translation. I've not been able to find any reference to a different "original ending", can you point me to something?

Regardless, I'm assuming what you have said is true, unless I find otherwise, that the ending was changed. But I'm not speaking towards the ending I haven't read.

So I'm fine leaving Tolstoy out of this, and focusing on what the Bible says.

I've not read the ending upon which you've based your assertions.

At the end of the day, I believe this depends on the particular situation, and how the Holy Spirit is leading us in that moment.

We have examples in the Bible, just looking at Paul for a moment, he both accepted abuse, and alternatively demanded his rights as a Roman citizen. I believe that there is place for both.

I didn't mean it to be pointed solely at you, just to say, that one speaks and another doesn't understand, rather than try to say, "it's you who is not speaking clearly", which takes an accusatory stance, my suggestion is to use "reflective listening" to gain that understanding. Rather than just point a finger, seek to remedy the situation with proactive responses designed to elicit clarification.


I'll say again that I think there is a time and place for different responses depending on the particular circumstance, and the Lord's leading.

I hope you understand me better now. Do you?

Much love!

dont heed that man about lizbeth and soebrx
Lisbeth and soberx are not at all the same . I have known lisbeth for years
and while i know that none is perfect but GOD , i know she beleives in AND FOLLOWS the LORD , as DO i .
as far as this other , N ot looking good is all i can say .

 

[amigo de christo]

No need to be. I'm not at all easily offended. Though I've been known to point to comments I think are inappropriate, but not to express offense, just to try and bring discussion to a higher level.


Walking in the Spirit is taught to us that we will be as God describes here:

Galatians 5:22-24 KJV
22) But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23) Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
24) And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

Patience, gentleness, meekness, self-control, this is what the person who is walking in the Spirit will show.


I woudn't know why that would be.



Personally I think that the one who is walking in the Spirit will find greater understanding, not less.

Help them do wickedness? Or help them to stop doing wickedness? Love them for their evil, or love them as the Lord loves,

Matthew 5:44-48 KJV
44) But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
45) That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
46) For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
47) And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
48) Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Doing good to all men, regardless of who they are. God gives rain and sun to the just and unjust, and continuing to provide the unjust with food in this way allows them to continue in their evil. But God doesn't leave it there, He condemns their evil, and has sent Jesus to save even them also, if they will repent and believe.



I'm not planning to speak for them.

I of course have based my comments on the book I read, the English translation. I've not been able to find any reference to a different "original ending", can you point me to something?

Regardless, I'm assuming what you have said is true, unless I find otherwise, that the ending was changed. But I'm not speaking towards the ending I haven't read.

So I'm fine leaving Tolstoy out of this, and focusing on what the Bible says.

I've not read the ending upon which you've based your assertions.

At the end of the day, I believe this depends on the particular situation, and how the Holy Spirit is leading us in that moment.

We have examples in the Bible, just looking at Paul for a moment, he both accepted abuse, and alternatively demanded his rights as a Roman citizen. I believe that there is place for both.

I didn't mean it to be pointed solely at you, just to say, that one speaks and another doesn't understand, rather than try to say, "it's you who is not speaking clearly", which takes an accusatory stance, my suggestion is to use "reflective listening" to gain that understanding. Rather than just point a finger, seek to remedy the situation with proactive responses designed to elicit clarification.


I'll say again that I think there is a time and place for different responses depending on the particular circumstance, and the Lord's leading.

I hope you understand me better now. Do you?

Much love!

when it comes also to lizbeth and big boy johnson .
Again they are not even the same .
I have learned by watching folks . lisbeth i KNOW she SERVES THE LORD
though , as she would tell you herself , OH i test her too , as she me , against biblical doctrine .
cause if even peter and barnabas could slip , well , CANT TRUST MAN . but we can T RUST GOD .
AND MAN he has lots of words IN THAT BIBLE too . WORDS which i highly suggest we learn and love and love and learn .

 

[Chrysostomos]

No need to be. I'm not at all easily offended. Though I've been known to point to comments I think are inappropriate, but not to express offense, just to try and bring discussion to a higher level.


Walking in the Spirit is taught to us that we will be as God describes here:

Galatians 5:22-24 KJV
22) But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23) Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
24) And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

Patience, gentleness, meekness, self-control, this is what the person who is walking in the Spirit will show.


I woudn't know why that would be.



Personally I think that the one who is walking in the Spirit will find greater understanding, not less.

Help them do wickedness? Or help them to stop doing wickedness? Love them for their evil, or love them as the Lord loves,

Matthew 5:44-48 KJV
44) But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
45) That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
46) For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
47) And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
48) Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Doing good to all men, regardless of who they are. God gives rain and sun to the just and unjust, and continuing to provide the unjust with food in this way allows them to continue in their evil. But God doesn't leave it there, He condemns their evil, and has sent Jesus to save even them also, if they will repent and believe.



I'm not planning to speak for them.

I of course have based my comments on the book I read, the English translation. I've not been able to find any reference to a different "original ending", can you point me to something?

Regardless, I'm assuming what you have said is true, unless I find otherwise, that the ending was changed. But I'm not speaking towards the ending I haven't read.

So I'm fine leaving Tolstoy out of this, and focusing on what the Bible says.

I've not read the ending upon which you've based your assertions.

At the end of the day, I believe this depends on the particular situation, and how the Holy Spirit is leading us in that moment.

We have examples in the Bible, just looking at Paul for a moment, he both accepted abuse, and alternatively demanded his rights as a Roman citizen. I believe that there is place for both.

I didn't mean it to be pointed solely at you, just to say, that one speaks and another doesn't understand, rather than try to say, "it's you who is not speaking clearly", which takes an accusatory stance, my suggestion is to use "reflective listening" to gain that understanding. Rather than just point a finger, seek to remedy the situation with proactive responses designed to elicit clarification.


I'll say again that I think there is a time and place for different responses depending on the particular circumstance, and the Lord's leading.

I hope you understand me better now. Do you?

Much love!

In short, you're playing for both teams at once. One case — one side, another case — the other side.

As for Tolstoy, I can only add one thing to what’s already been said: don’t read Tolstoy.
Read Vladimir Solovyov — War, Progress, and the End of History: Three Conversations, Including a Short Story of the Antichrist.

 

[amigo de christo]

In short, you're playing for both teams at once. One case — one side, another case — the other side.

As for Tolstoy, I can only add one thing to what’s already been said: don’t read Tolstoy.
Read Vladimir Solovyov — War, Progress, and the End of History: Three Conversations, Including a Short Story of the Antichrist.

yeah rather , LET US READ the BIBLE . This generation is in dire trouble my friend .

 

[marks]

In short, you're playing for both teams at once. One case — one side, another case — the other side.

Then I think you don't understand what I'm saying. That's OK. Maybe in time to come.

As for Tolstoy, I can only add one thing to what’s already been said: don’t read Tolstoy.
Read Vladimir Solovyov — War, Progress, and the End of History: Three Conversations, Including a Short Story of the Antichrist.

Nowadays I pretty much just read the Bible.

I appreciate the discussion. To summarize my POV,

Ecclesiastes 3:1-8 KJV
1) To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
2) A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;
3) A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;
4) A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;
5) A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;
6) A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away;
7) A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;
8) A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.

Much love!

 

[Chrysostomos]

yeah rather , LET US READ the BIBLE . This generation is in dire trouble my friend .

Do you read anything besides the Bible?

 

[Chrysostomos]

Then I think you don't understand what I'm saying. That's OK. Maybe in time to come.

Do you even understand what you're writing?

Nowadays I pretty much just read the Bible.

I appreciate the discussion. To summarize my POV,

Ecclesiastes 3:1-8 KJV
1) To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
2) A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;
3) A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;
4) A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;
5) A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;
6) A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away;
7) A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;
8) A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.

Much love!

Good for you.

 

[marks]

Do you even understand what you're writing?

Very much so, thank you for asking!

Much love!

 

[GRACE ambassador]

God is No "respecter" of persons, Under His Grace, Today, Since "Israel has fallen,"
God "Set them Aside (temporarily), and Now Is "Having Mercy on All", So:

Yes, we should love All of our neighbors in obedience Of God's Command:

With Christ Living In us, To Fulfil:

All Of His Law, In One Word: ►► love ◄◄ thy neighbor​

as thyself!" (Galatians 5:14; Romans 13:8-10 AV)​

Getting them All His Precious Gospel Of Grace, eh? Which is:

Great Preparation For "gold, silver, and precious stones" At:

The Bema Judgment Seat Of Christ! (1 Corinthians 3:8-15 AV)​

Amen!

 

[MatthewG]

You should do whatever you want to do.

Like someone, hate them, ignore them... I mean in the end it's your choice.

I doubt everyone here just loves everyone... I know I have issues in loving everyone...

Everyone has that issue -- if you say you dont -- I say you are a liar. People can typically even hate themselves.


Whether you help or not... i mean sometimes you can sometimes you cant

You can't save people.

Except maybe if they are choking or whatever, or you use CPR methods.

But you can't save people to the Kingdom of Heaven anyway...

People make that choice.

 

[amigo de christo]

Do you read anything besides the Bible?

I read, or at least read on quite a bit of christain books
But FRIEND i put them down with tears and disgust .
But the bible never once did that to me . I always have enjoyed reading it daily .
But you would marvel at the junk most sell as christain these days . Scary stuff my friend .
people ooh and awe over books like circle makers , ya best life now ,
purpose driven life and scores of others , THEY ought to hang their heads in shame at that stuff .
And beleive me , stuff was not the first word that popped into my mind , BUT its the word i used anyway .

 

[amigo de christo]

God is No "respecter" of persons, Under His Grace, Today, Since "Israel has fallen,"
God "Set them Aside (temporarily), and Now Is "Having Mercy on All", So:

Yes, we should love All of our neighbors in obedience Of God's Command:

With Christ Living In us, To Fulfil:

All Of His Law, In One Word: ►► love ◄◄ thy neighbor​

as thyself!" (Galatians 5:14; Romans 13:8-10 AV)​

Getting them All His Precious Gospel Of Grace, eh? Which is:

Great Preparation For "gold, silver, and precious stones" At:

The Bema Judgment Seat Of Christ! (1 Corinthians 3:8-15 AV)​

Amen!

well believe me when i say this intefaith finding common ground , AINT mercy its darkness and
will damn many a soul . God , HIS MERCY , POINTS TO FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST
Not faith in whatever version of god you think is god and call god .
I SEEN what those men of belial did and said to them false religoins on st age . And it was of anti christ .
SO lets keep that in mind . Anway be encouraged now and let all that has breath praise the glorious LORD .
That is right , TIME for a praise fest to the glorious LORD .

 

[Chrysostomos]

Very much so, thank you for asking!

Much love!

Based on what you’ve written, in the context of the question: Should you help the wicked and love those who hate the Lord?—what logical conclusion do you draw about how you answer this question: yes or no?

 

[Chrysostomos]

I read, or at least read on quite a bit of christain books
But FRIEND i put them down with tears and disgust .
But the bible never once did that to me . I always have enjoyed reading it daily .
But you would marvel at the junk most sell as christain these days . Scary stuff my friend .
people ooh and awe over books like circle makers , ya best life now ,
purpose driven life and scores of others , THEY ought to hang their heads in shame at that stuff .
And beleive me , stuff was not the first word that popped into my mind , BUT its the word i used anyway .

So, among all the books you’ve read, there isn’t a single one you’d recommend? Besides the Bible, of course.
Really, not even More Than a Carpenter by Josh McDowell?

 

[Chrysostomos]

God is No "respecter" of persons, Under His Grace, Today, Since "Israel has fallen,"
God "Set them Aside (temporarily), and Now Is "Having Mercy on All", So:

Yes, we should love All of our neighbors in obedience Of God's Command:

With Christ Living In us, To Fulfil:

All Of His Law, In One Word: ►► love ◄◄ thy neighbor​

as thyself!" (Galatians 5:14; Romans 13:8-10 AV)​

Getting them All His Precious Gospel Of Grace, eh? Which is:

Great Preparation For "gold, silver, and precious stones" At:

The Bema Judgment Seat Of Christ! (1 Corinthians 3:8-15 AV)​

Amen!

So, you’re saying we should help the wicked and love those who hate the Lord?

 

[Lizbeth]

So, you’re saying we should help the wicked and love those who hate the Lord?

Should we as the church and followers of Christ help unbelievers to continue in their sin and love how they live and what they believe? No. Join arms with them in their error and pretend it doesn't matter, and sing kumbya? No. But help them if they are in need and love them as God loves them (which is not the same as fickle human emotion)? Yes.

Rom 12:18-21

If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.
Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.
Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.
Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

And that is distinct from what governments are supposed to do. Governments are about the law and meting justice. The church is about mercy which triumphs over justice. We are instructed in God's word to discern and distinguish between the holy and profane/common, between heavenly and earthly.

 

[HealthyShape]

Should we as the church and followers of Christ help unbelievers to continue in their sin and love how they live and what they believe? No. Join arms with them in their error and pretend it doesn't matter, and sing kumbya? No. But help them if they are in need and love them as God loves them (which is not the same as fickle human emotion)? Yes.

Rom 12:18-21

If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.
Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.
Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.
Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

And that is distinct from what governments are supposed to do. Governments are about the law and meting justice. The church is about mercy which triumphs over justice. We are instructed in God's word to discern and distinguish between the holy and profane/common, between heavenly and earthly.

Yes, it needs practical wisdom. Neither love/pacifism nor justice/retaliation is for all situations.

I would say love and peace should be our default we start with until it is not good anymore.

 

[Chrysostomos]

You should do whatever you want to do.

Like someone, hate them, ignore them... I mean in the end it's your choice.

I doubt everyone here just loves everyone... I know I have issues in loving everyone...

Everyone has that issue -- if you say you dont -- I say you are a liar. People can typically even hate themselves.


Whether you help or not... i mean sometimes you can sometimes you cant

You can't save people.

Except maybe if they are choking or whatever, or you use CPR methods.

But you can't save people to the Kingdom of Heaven anyway...

People make that choice.

What choice have you made yourself?

By the way, you reminded me of a story that Deacon Andrei Kuraev once shared. He was invited to speak at a religious conference. So, he’s sitting backstage with other speakers, waiting for his turn.
Suddenly, the next speaker’s name is announced, but she’s nowhere to be found and doesn’t take the stage. A couple of seconds later, a woman bursts in, shoving everyone aside with her elbows, cursing loudly for people to get out of her way, all while finishing a cigarette and tossing the butt on the floor.

Deacon Andrei Kuraev looks at this “speaker” and says: “Colleagues! I’d bet anyone here that she’s about to give a talk on love, morality, and chastity.”

A few minutes later, everyone backstage bursts into laughter. Sure enough, this woman starts delivering a lecture on the importance of love and morality in modern society.

I’m not hinting at anyone here. It’s just a story that came to mind, which might well reflect the situation, including on this forum, as you rightly pointed out.

 

[amigo de christo]

You should do whatever you want to do.

Like someone, hate them, ignore them... I mean in the end it's your choice.

I doubt everyone here just loves everyone... I know I have issues in loving everyone...

Everyone has that issue -- if you say you dont -- I say you are a liar. People can typically even hate themselves.


Whether you help or not... i mean sometimes you can sometimes you cant

You can't save people.

Except maybe if they are choking or whatever, or you use CPR methods.

But you can't save people to the Kingdom of Heaven anyway...

People make that choice.

look at your first line a gain .
In otherwords SERVE and please yourself . that god is not the god we aim to please .
GOD is THE GOD we aim to please and do as HE commands we do .

 

[amigo de christo]

So, among all the books you’ve read, there isn’t a single one you’d recommend? Besides the Bible, of course.
Really, not even More Than a Carpenter by Josh McDowell?

yes among all the other books i have read , There is not even a singel one i can recommend .
But i aint read all other book , nor have i even read this more than a carpenter
BUT OH YES and OHHHH YES the many books i have read authored by so called christains
WERE PUT DOWN FAST . yet NOT THE BIBLE , its been held onto and clung to t hem pa ges .
ANY guesses as To WHY that even is my freind .
Wanna know what i seem to notice
that those people who clung to them certain books and certain shows like the chosen
have one thing in common , THEY DONT like it much
when the BIBLE is brought and HIS OWN WORDS are said . but boy they sure do f ind the time
to be reading lots of books and watching lots of shows . THAT be WHAT I have clearly noticed .
But as it is written we cannot love the things of this world .
FOR WE will cling to one and hate the ot her . AND boy do they cling to ONE and hater the OTHER
only IT DARN SURE AINT GOD they cling too . know what i mean .