Pre mill doctrine denies the body glorification of all saved believers in Christ

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Scott Downey

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When Christ returns a second time, scripture says we saved people shall all be changed to have a body like his own glorified body.
All Christians dead or living when Christ comes a second time are transformed changed, to have a glorified body like he has.


Philippians 3:20-21
20 For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, 21 who will transform our lowly body that it may be conformed to His glorious body, according to the working by which He is able even to subdue all things to Himself.

1 John 3:2
Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.

1 Corinthians 15:50

Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
But for pre trib doctrine they do not believe the scriptures here.

They do this because they only allow the glorification for what they call the body of Christ, the church, when Christ comes in a hidden invisible secret rapture gathering when He comes for His bride to gather them into the air and go where, who knows where.... for a period time of 7 to 3.5 years.

Their teaching is any people who believe in Christ after this coming, are not the body of Christ, but are the 'tribulation saints' who will remain as flesh and blood, and if they are lucky to survive until the 3rd coming of Christ as they missed the pre trib rapture gathering will remain as earthly flesh and blood bodies. Marry, have babies and refill the world with flesh.

They also deny 1 Cor 15:50 which states flesh and blood CAN NOT inherit the kingdom of God, which their doctrine then is that believing saved Christians who missed the rapture, survive the great tribulation, and who remain flesh and blood during the 1000 year earthly reign will not inherit the kingdom of God.

The following is what the pre mill doctrine believes, see if you can also see the false doctrine contained here, as there are some more problems.
Actually everything in red is false teaching.

The first 3 scriptures totally destroy pre mill doctrine, so if you do not believe what they teach, you will not believe what the other scriptures teach either.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


The millennial kingdom is the future reign of Jesus Christ on earth as He sits on David’s throne in Jerusalem. Everyone who enters that kingdom will be redeemed by God and therefore righteous (see Isaiah 35:8–10). Among those redeemed will be two distinct groups of people: those with glorified physical bodies and those with natural, earthly bodies.


Those who occupy the millennial kingdom with glorified bodies can be divided into three subgroups: the church, whose bodies were either resurrected or changed at the rapture (1 Thessalonians 4:13–18; 1 Corinthians 15:21–23, 51–53); tribulation martyrs, who are resurrected after Christ returns to earth (Revelation 20:4–6); and the Old Testament saints, who we assume are resurrected at the same time (see Daniel 12:2). Those who occupy the kingdom with earthly bodies have survived the tribulation and can be subdivided into two groups: believing Gentiles and believing Jews.

Revelation 19:11–16 describes the second coming of Jesus Christ. This is distinct from the rapture (1 Thessalonians 4:13–18; 1 Corinthians 15:51–53), which is an earlier appearing of Christ in the air. (There is no mention in Revelation 19—20 of any kind of rapture event. This implies that saints who are on earth when Christ returns will remain on earth to enter the millennial kingdom in their natural bodies.)

Part of Jesus’ setting up the kingdom will be His judgment of the sheep and the goats (Matthew 25:31–46). The “sheep” are the righteous Gentiles, who showed their faith by their good works toward God’s people; the “goats” are the unrighteous Gentiles, who failed to aid God’s children. Christ will cast the unrighteous into the lake of fire for eternal punishment (Matthew 25:46). Because of this judgment, and because all Israel will believe at that time (Zechariah 12:10; Romans 11:25–32), no unbeliever will enter the millennial kingdom (also see Matthew 13:24–30, 36–43).

So, those who occupy the millennial kingdom, at the start, will be the righteous of all previous dispensations: believing Gentiles in earthly bodies, redeemed Israel in earthly bodies, and resurrected/raptured believers in glorified bodies. Those who occupy the millennial kingdom will be from “many nations,” but the knowledge of the Lord Jesus will be universal: “The earth will be filled with the knowledge of the Lord as the waters cover the sea” (Habakkuk 2:14). It will be standard practice for those who occupy the millennial kingdom to travel to Jerusalem and worship the Lord in person: “Many nations will come and say, ‘Come, let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the temple of the God of Jacob. He will teach us his ways, so that we may walk in his paths.’ The law will go out from Zion, the word of the Lord from Jerusalem” (Micah 4:2).

Those who occupy the millennial kingdom will see the nation of Israel exalted to its fullest glory. All will be restored spiritually and physically: “‘In that day,’ declares the Lord, ‘I will gather the lame; I will assemble the exiles and those I have brought to grief. I will make the lame my remnant, those driven away a strong nation’” (Micah 4:6–7).


During the millennial kingdom, the saints in earthly, natural bodies will enjoy long lives (Isaiah 65:20), and they will produce children. By the end of the thousand years, the world is fully populated, and there are many—“in number they are like the sand on the seashore”—who rebel against the Lord (Revelation 20:7–8).

Children born during the millennial kingdom will have the responsibility to exercise faith in Christ, the same as all people of past ages. Some of those born during the millennial kingdom will choose to not believe.
That is why Scripture speaks of those who die under a curse (Isaiah 65:20) and why the Lord lays out consequences for nations that do not worship Him: “If any of the peoples of the earth do not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord Almighty, they will have no rain” (Zechariah 14:17).
 
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ewq1938

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The first 3 scriptures totally destroy pre mill doctrine, so if you do not believe what they teach, you will not believe what the other scriptures teach either.

That is nonsense. This entire post is so misleading it is shameful. The title also badly misleads and lies outright but no surprise there.

At best this post speaks to some flaws that only Pre-trib Premills have, not Premill itself which includes post-tribbers. Nothing in this post disproves any part of Premill held by Post-tribbers.
 
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Scott Downey

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That is nonsense. This entire post is so misleading it is shameful. The title also badly misleads and lies outright but no surprise there.

At best this post speaks to some flaws that only Pre-trib Premills have, not Premill itself which includes post-tribbers. Nothing in this post disproves any part of Premill held by Post-tribbers.
It is a truth that you can't comprehend.
 

Scott Downey

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Philippians 3:20-21
20 For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, 21 who will transform our lowly body that it may be conformed to His glorious body, according to the working by which He is able even to subdue all things to Himself.

1 John 3:2
Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.

1 Corinthians 15:50

Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption.​


These are truths the darkness cannot comprehend.
If a doctrine of men, (premill), says the opposite of what the scripture states, then it is from the darkness, actually evil.
And they clearly state some saved believers in Christ, will not be glorified together with Christ when He comes a second time.

Another scriptural proof

1 If then you were raised with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ is, sitting at the right hand of God. 2 Set your mind on things above, not on things on the earth. 3 For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. 4 When Christ who is our life appears, then you also will appear with Him in glory.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Why would you follow the darkness and not the light?
 

Scott Downey

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Romans 8:30
Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

Premills doctrine is against the scriptures, as those who He justified, He glorifies.
Premills believe saved Christians who survive in the world till Christ returns in their earthly bodies, will retain their earthly bodies and not be glorified together with Christ at the second coming.

It is clearly false doctrine.
You refuse to believe the scriptures, when you uphold the doctrine of men.
Fact is you seek to invalidate the word of God by your traditions.
 

Scott Downey

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Premills doctrine also says these earthly bodied Christians who live on the earth will not be resurrected.
They will marry and have children and repopulate this still evil world.

During the millennial kingdom, the saints in earthly, natural bodies will enjoy long lives (Isaiah 65:20), and they will produce children. By the end of the thousand years, the world is fully populated, and there are many—“in number they are like the sand on the seashore”—who rebel against the Lord (Revelation 20:7–8).

Premills deny them their faithfulness to Christ, that some Christians will not be resurrected, glorified, they deny the words of Christ and Paul referring to the resurrection that we shall all be changed and that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God.

Christians will not be retaining earthly bodies, marry and have children
Premills deny to those believing people their faithfulness for the kingdom of God inheritance which God will give to them, that He prepared for them from the foundation of the world.

They deny them to be called the sons of God, sons of the resurrection, they say they will marry and have children.
They deny they are worthy to attain that age, to be equal to the angels and are sons of God

Luke 20
34 Jesus answered and said to them, “The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage. 35 But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; 36 nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.

Scripture tells us we are sons of God, premills deny this to some believing saved Christians.
God does not qualify us to be sons because we died in the natural body before Christ returned.
Scripture qualifies us to be sons because of our faith in Christ, because He has chosen us to be sons.

Ephesians 1:4-6
New King James Version
4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He [a]made us accepted in the Beloved.

Galatians 3:26
For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
 

Scott Downey

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New Testament Tensions against pre mill doctrines are these​

Paul and Jesus emphasize a single, climactic return of Christ, not two phases:

1 Corinthians 15:51–53 — All believers—living and dead—are glorified simultaneously, not in stages.

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I tell you a [m]mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

2 Thessalonians 1:6–10 — Christ returns “in blazing fire” to judge the wicked and glorify the saints on the same day.

6 since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with [c]tribulation those who trouble you, 7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, 8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who [d]believe, because our testimony among you was believed.


Matthew 25:31–46 — The sheep and goats judgment occurs at Christ’s return, with no mention of a separate rapture or earthly-bodied saints continuing to reproduce.
 

Scott Downey

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John 6:40 — “…everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

John 6:44 — “…No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

These verses affirm:

All believers in Christ are raised.

The resurrection happens at “the last day”—not in multiple phases.

There’s no distinction between “church age” believers and “tribulation saints” in terms of resurrection timing.


Premillennial dispensationalism teaches:

A secret rapture of the church before the tribulation.

A later resurrection of tribulation saints and Old Testament believers at Christ’s visible return.

Some believers (tribulation survivors) enter the Millennium in natural bodies, marry, and reproduce.

But John 6 directly contradicts this:

Jesus promises to raise everyone who believes at the last day—not before or after it.

There’s no biblical support for believers remaining in mortal bodies after Christ’s return.

The “last day” is consistently used in John’s Gospel to refer to the final resurrection and judgment, not a 1,000-year interim period.
 

Scott Downey

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Premillennialism divides believers into glorified and non-glorified groups, undermining the unity of the body of Christ.

It implies that some faithful Christians are denied glorification and sonship—contrary to Paul’s teaching that “we shall all be changed.”

It introduces a post-return human society that contradicts Jesus’ own words about the resurrection age.

Christ’s return is final and universal—resurrection, judgment, and glorification happen together.

No believers remain in mortal bodies after His return.

The kingdom is inherited by all sons of God, who are glorified and equal to the angels.
 

Scott Downey

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I created a chart that shows the premill doctrines and refutations

1762181960582.png
 

Scott Downey

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Premillennial dispensationalism introduces a two-tiered resurrection that contradicts the unified glorification promised to all believers. It denies the full inheritance of the kingdom to some Christians, despite their faith, and undermines the clear teaching that all who are justified are glorified.
 

Scott Downey

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No one can refute any of what this says according to the NT scriptures or according to their own premill doctrines, as this is what they believe..

These are the facts in evidences.
 

Scott Downey

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That's just a lame insult so you can avoid the fact that you are misleading people with this thread.
If the truth gets you upset, then that is good, and you should not be following the traditions of men.
You can't dispute any of this as it is man's premill doctrine, their system, versus the God of scripture.
 

ewq1938

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If the truth gets you upset, then that is good, and you should not be following the traditions of men.
You can't dispute any of this as it is man's premill doctrine, their system, versus the God of scripture.

Your posts are not truth or truthful. You teach the doctrines of man, not teaching in opposition of them.