I will raise them on the last day.

[David in NJ]

Sorry David but I dont get how this is a start to refuting dispensational teaching.

If its too painful to type, wait til you are better and can respond at your best

AVoid the 'shotgun' approach to scripture.

Apply the Marksmen approach = Pinpoint Accuracy

Foucs on the CENTER of TRUTH = Gospel to All nations which is CHRIST

For us, Today, the Center of TRUTH begins in Gospel of John chapter 1

 

[David in NJ]

Glad we can agree on that, at least. If only you understood that is what Revelation 20 is about. Ask God for wisdom about this (James 1:5-7).


Jesus defeating Satan and the powers of darkness relates directly to the binding of Satan, but you just are not discerning that.

As for Jesus exercising His power, what do you think, that He is just completely inactive on earth? Are you aware that the Holy Spirit is also called "The Spirit of Christ" and that He dwells in us and is the One who convicts people of their sins? Do you think the Holy Spirit is not active on earth?


Exactly, and you have yet to understand the TRUTH of Amillennialism.

This is what "i have to do" = go to work to feed my family

Lift up prayer for my son Daniel who is battling a tick-born disease that took doctors a year to figure out even though we were telling them.

Now we need special treatment for Daniel = $$$$$ that we do not have

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

This is what "i have to do" = go to work to feed my family

Yes, many of us here need to do that.

Lift up prayer for my son Daniel who is battling a tick-born disease that took doctors a year to figure out even though we were telling them.

You bet. Will do.

Now we need special treatment for Daniel = $$$$$ that we do not have

I can relate to struggling to come up with the money to pay for treatments. It's hard not to be discouraged about it, but just remember hard times in the past when God helped you through them and know that He will do it again. I'll pray that God either provides the money you need or just heals Daniel Himself.

 

[David in NJ]

Yes, many of us here need to do that.


You bet. Will do.


I can relate to struggling to come up with the money to pay for treatments. It's hard not to be discouraged about it, but just remember times in the past when God helped you through them. I'll pray that God either provides the money you need or juts heals Daniel Himself.

THANK YOU my Brother in Christ

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

THANK YOU my Brother in Christ

You're welcome, brother. I know I can come across as kind of harsh on here, but I know you agree that TRUTH from God's word is important and you are passionate about that just like I am. But, Amil or Premil or any other end times doctrines are not nearly as important as the health of your son.

 

[ewq1938]

Please I am waiting for you to tell me one thing that mainstream dispensationalism teaches is error. you profess to know it is falsehood

Post-trib have exposed many many holes in Pre-trib like the rejection of the definition of Apostasia and the fact that the rapture cannot happen until after the man of sin is revealed which happens after the Great Tribulation has started so a rapture before it starts is impossible. Or the misuse of John 14:2-3 where there is nothing about Christ taking anyone back to heaven. And the other misuse of Rev 3:10 where only one church is kept from the hour of temptation. It doesn't say kept from the Great Tribulation and it doesn't apply to any other of the churches. Then of course there is the false claim that the church is not seen in Revelation after the 4th chapter when the church in the form of the 144k and the two witnesses and it's own two candlesticks which is two churches are very much there in Revelation and going through the Great Tribulation. Pre-trib has more holes than Swiss cheese! This is only a partial list!

 

[Marty fox]

This is what "i have to do" = go to work to feed my family

Lift up prayer for my son Daniel who is battling a tick-born disease that took doctors a year to figure out even though we were telling them.

Now we need special treatment for Daniel = $$$$$ that we do not have

Hello David I am sorry to hear that I will be praying for you and your family too

My go to verse

Isaiah 41:10​

10 So do not fear, for I am with you;
do not be dismayed, for I am your God.
I will strengthen you and help you;
I will uphold you with my righteous right hand.

The first two lines are actually commands and the second two lines are our promises

 

[Doug]

Post-trib have exposed many many holes in Pre-trib like the rejection of the definition of Apostasia and the fact that the rapture cannot happen until after the man of sin is revealed which happens after the Great Tribulation has started so a rapture before it starts is impossible.

Lets look at the passage...................[2Th 2:1-3 KJV] 1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and [by] our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Because verse 1 speaks of our gathering together, which is the rapture, many see the rapture as being the day of Christ. The day of Christ is NOT the rapture.
Paul is saying that the day of Christ was not at hand. The day of Christ wont happen until the man of sin is revealed.
The day of Christ is Christ coming to destroy the man of sin which corresponds to these verses................[2Th 2:8 KJV] 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
{Rev 19:19 KJV] 19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

 

[Doug]

Or the misuse of John 14:2-3 where there is nothing about Christ taking anyone back to heaven.

[Jhn 14:2-3 KJV] 2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if [it were] not [so], I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, [there] ye may be also.

You didnt say how this verse is misused

Jesus was not talking about heaven. That anyone would go to heaven was not revealed until revealed to Paul
Jesus more than likely was referring to the holy city in the earthly kingdom.............[Rev 21:2 KJV] 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

 

[Doug]

And the other misuse of Rev 3:10 where only one church is kept from the hour of temptation. It doesn't say kept from the Great Tribulation and it doesn't apply to any other of the churches.

[Rev 3:10 KJV] 10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Again you havent said how this is misused

I think its a wrong assumption to say this applies only to this church. He doesnt say Thou ONLY has kept the word of patience I will keep ONLY keep thee

There are other saints who kept his word..................[Rev 14:12 KJV] 12 Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

The hour of temptation could be that they will be kept safely in the tribulation and/or from taking the mark

 

[Doug]

Then of course there is the false claim that the church is not seen in Revelation after the 4th chapter when the church in the form of the 144k and the two witnesses and it's own two candlesticks which is two churches are very much there in Revelation and going through the Great Tribulation. Pre-trib has more holes than Swiss cheese! This is only a partial list!

I dont see the church the body of Christ being in Revelation anywhere. The trib is only dealing with Israel. It refines them and separates unbelieving Israel from believing Israel
I think the 144k are risen (not resurrected) saints from the believing remnant of Israel who believed on Jesus during his earthly ministry and maybe the twelve

 

[Davidpt]

I dont see the church the body of Christ being in Revelation anywhere. The trib is only dealing with Israel. It refines them and separates unbelieving Israel from believing Israel
I think the 144k are risen (not resurrected) saints from the believing remnant of Israel who believed on Jesus during his earthly ministry and maybe the twelve

Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Obviously, this---and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ--leads to this in Revelation 13:7---And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them

But let's pretend that this--and have the testimony of Jesus Christ--is not meaning the church. As if that fits unbelieving Jews instead. Or maybe satanists, or maybe even atheists. God forbid that it can fit the church. God forbid that the church is the one that has the testimony of Jesus Christ.

It really makes a whole lot of sense that both Revelation 12:17 and Revelation 13:7 are involving a war against the church that is taking place in heaven rather than the earth, since that is where Pretrib has the church located when both Revelation 12:17 and Revelation 13:7 are meaning.

 

[shepherdsword]

John 6:54
54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

Jesus said it all here, He will raise them on the last day, not raise them a thousand years before the last day.

2 Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

The last day is the 1000 year millennial kingdom. The first resurrection occurs at the 7th seal, 7th trumpet and 7th vial.(they are simultaneous) This ushers in the last day (1000) years. The 2nd resurrection occurs at the end of the 1000 year reign of Christ, when He hands the kingdom up to the Father

1 Co 15:23-25 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

(Jesus will rule the earth for 1000 years)

24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

Rv 20:7-8
And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.


(this happens at the end of the 1000 reign after all enemies are subdued)

 

[David in NJ]

[Rev 3:10 KJV] 10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Again you havent said how this is misused

I think its a wrong assumption to say this applies only to this church. He doesnt say Thou ONLY has kept the word of patience I will keep ONLY keep thee

There are other saints who kept his word..................[Rev 14:12 KJV] 12 Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

The hour of temptation could be that they will be kept safely in the tribulation and/or from taking the mark

Read carefully Doug

This is the LORD's Promise to all who "keep His commandments" = "the word of His patience"
Promise = "I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation"

1 Thess 1:10
wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.

James 5:7-9
Be patient, then, brothers, until the Lord’s coming.
See how the farmer awaits the precious fruit of the soil—how patient he is for the fall and spring rains.
You, too, be patient and strengthen your hearts, because the Lord’s coming is near.
Do not complain about one another, brothers, so that you will not be judged. Look, the Judge is standing at the door!

Hebrews 6:13-15
For when God made a promise to Abraham, because He could swear by no one greater, He swore by Himself, saying, “Surely blessing I will bless you, and multiplying I will multiply you.”
And so, after he had patiently endured, he obtained the promise

 

[David in NJ]

I dont see the church the body of Christ being in Revelation anywhere. The trib is only dealing with Israel. It refines them and separates unbelieving Israel from believing Israel
I think the 144k are risen (not resurrected) saints from the believing remnant of Israel who believed on Jesus during his earthly ministry and maybe the twelve

Take off the dispensation blinders and believe the TRUTH

Every saint is a member of the Church, which is His Body

Romans 16:1-2
I commend to you Phoebe our sister, who is a servant of the church in Cenchrea, that you may receive her in the Lord in a manner worthy of the saints, and assist her in whatever business she has need of you; for indeed she has been a helper of many and of myself also.

1 Corinthians 6:1-3
Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unrighteous, and not before the saints? 2Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world will be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters? 3Do you not know that we shall judge angels? How much more, things that pertain to this life?

Acts 9:41
But Peter put them all out, and knelt down and prayed. And turning to the body he said, “Tabitha, arise.” And she opened her eyes, and when she saw Peter she sat up. Then he gave her his hand and lifted her up; and when he had called the saints and widows, he presented her alive

Ephesians 5:3
But let sexual immorality and all impurity or covetousness not even be named among you, as also is proper among saints,

Ephesians 4:3
And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ

 

[David in NJ]

Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Obviously, this---and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ--leads to this in Revelation 13:7---And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them

But let's pretend that this--and have the testimony of Jesus Christ--is not meaning the church. As if that fits unbelieving Jews instead. Or maybe satanists, or maybe even atheists. God forbid that it can fit the church. God forbid that the church is the one that has the testimony of Jesus Christ.

It really makes a whole lot of sense that both Revelation 12:17 and Revelation 13:7 are involving a war against the church that is taking place in heaven rather than the earth, since that is where Pretrib has the church located when both Revelation 12:17 and Revelation 13:7 are meaning.

It really makes a whole lot of sense that both Revelation 12:17 and Revelation 13:7 are involving a war against the church that is taking place in heaven rather than the earth,

Are you jesting here???

 

[ewq1938]

Because verse 1 speaks of our gathering together, which is the rapture, many see the rapture as being the day of Christ. The day of Christ is NOT the rapture.

Scripture disagrees with you.

 

[ewq1938]

You didnt say how this verse is misused

Yes I did.

 

[ewq1938]

I dont see the church the body of Christ being in Revelation anywhere.

I know you don't but the church is there.

 

[Doug]

Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Obviously, this---and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ--leads to this in Revelation 13:7---And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them

But let's pretend that this--and have the testimony of Jesus Christ--is not meaning the church. As if that fits unbelieving Jews instead. Or maybe satanists, or maybe even atheists. God forbid that it can fit the church. God forbid that the church is the one that has the testimony of Jesus Christ.

It really makes a whole lot of sense that both Revelation 12:17 and Revelation 13:7 are involving a war against the church that is taking place in heaven rather than the earth, since that is where Pretrib has the church located when both Revelation 12:17 and Revelation 13:7 are meaning.

[Rev 12:1-2 KJV] 1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: 2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered....................I think the woman is Israel.....................[Gen 37:9 KJV] 9 And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me..............based on other verses in Genesis 37 I would say the woman's description aligns with his dream and is Israel................[Rev 12:5 KJV] 5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and [to] his throne............the man child is Christ who descended from Jacob which is Israel................[Rev 12:6 KJV] 6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred [and] threescore days.............the wilderness is on earth NOT HEAVEN and Israel flees the beast there.............[Rev 12:17 KJV] 17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ..............the remnant is the believing remnant of Israel not the church the body of Christ