Revelation 20: 5&6

[rebuilder 454]

Readers,

Christ is the 'firstfruit' of resurrection of 'firstborn' from the dead, meaning, there has been no resurrection of or from the dead since Adam and Eve.

After Christ the 'firstfruit' or 'firstborn', there has been no resurrection of the dead until the 'first resurrection' we read in Revelation 20:5.

Only the dead in Christ shall rise, meaning the Body of Christ the church, who've died for their faith even during the Great Tribulation, and asleep in their graves awaiting.

Then the Body of Christ the church that are living and have come out the Great Tribulation, together both will be changed taking on the Heavenly body before ascension.

Next they together will ascend to meet the Lord in the clouds, and taken to Heaven, given white robes and are told to rest until their 'fellowservants' make it at the 'second resurrection.

'Second resurrection', where there'll be those who 'resurrect unto life' and those who 'resurrect unto damnation' in the 'Final Judgement' of Christ.

Apparently this is the 'second resurrection' of the dead in Christ and final judgement after the 'thousand years' is over.

Christ separates between the sheep, good and faithful servants who resurrect unto life and goats, workers of iniquity and lawless servants who resurrect unto damnation.

We don't see why Christ waste time in judging the world, when initially they're dead to sin and death, and have not believed the Son for salvation. (John 16:8-10)

144,000 are the true Jews and Israelites, and who are the descendants of Jacob or house of Jacob, so they're not the fathers or patriarchs of Israel.

For the 'patriarch of Israel' i believe are the 24 elders who are already in Heaven and seated on thrones, those ascended bodily like Enoch and Elijah or in the spirit receiving the Heavenly body.

As Christ won salvation for the dead and the living, for those in Heaven and for those on earth, without 'damnation'.

The 144,000 Israelites will be taken up to Heaven after the 'Armageddon according to the book Revelation', the final restitution.

Shalom in the name of Lord Jesus Christ.

No.
We see the 144k in heaven, before the wrath,in Rev 14.
Taken mid 7 yr trib.

You must be reading the NIV to think you are seeing a resurrection in Rev 20.
Rev 20 points to a PREVIOUS resurrection.
Nobody resurrected immediately prior to the mil.

NIV incorrectly translated "...and they lived...." to say "...and they came to life.."
NIV stands for "not inspired version"

It is imperative to invoke the Greek

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Your own interpretation?

i did not testify that He returns to earth on His second coming, but rather He'll be 'in' the clouds and as per to the scripture.

Usually the clouds are in the sky and that's where the the Lord will be 'inside' on His second coming.

And the church saints at the 'first resurrection' will ascend and meet Him 'in' the clouds.

False, for you folks to assume is the atmosphere and probably the world could see, non Biblical.

Sorry but Jesus descending into teh clouds is not a biblical return so it doesn't count as His second coming. In order for this to be His second coming, He would have had to descend just into teh atmosphere once before. that would be His first coming.

Well I know that at the rapture Jesus descends either into teh first heaven (atmosphere) or the second heaven (space) for He leaves the third heaven.

The church meeting Jesus in the clouds is the pre-trib rapture.

 

[bro.tan]

Lets go read about the first one in Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

So lets rewind a bit and see this first resurrection, because we need to understand how this came to be. This next verse we are going to read take place toward the ending of the great tribulation. After the sky roll back and sun and moon do not give her light. Lets read this in Revelation 6: 12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. 14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

So after the sky is roll back, there will be some time in between, because the lord will be looking at the people who pierce him. Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. (Rev. 1:7)

Now let see when the Lord is descending or coming down, and notice Jesus not coming with anybody, he coming alone.

Lets go into 1 Thessalonians 4: 13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

If you sleep in Jesus it means you have done his will. Lets keep reading and see how Jesus bring the saints with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

This verse just told us that some will be alive to be in this first resurrection, the coming of Jesus, and there are those who will be asleep. Notice they asleep and not in heaven chilling and watching over people, smiling at all this hell going on.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Notice: Only the dead in Christ will rise first, but the Lord has descended...meaning coming down

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Notice we those that where asleep or dead rise first, then those which are alive and remain rise next, to meet the Lord in the air, and altogether we the first resurrection.

Paul said in 1 Thessalonians 3:13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

Now let's go back and take a look at the second resurrection into Revelation 20: 11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

 

[Fred J]

Sorry but Jesus descending into teh clouds is not a biblical return so it doesn't count as His second coming. In order for this to be His second coming, He would have had to descend just into teh atmosphere once before. that would be His first coming.

Well I know that at the rapture Jesus descends either into teh first heaven (atmosphere) or the second heaven (space) for He leaves the third heaven.

The church meeting Jesus in the clouds is the pre-trib rapture.

1 Thessalonians 4:
17. Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them 'in the clouds', to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Apparently the meeting point is in the 'air', not on earth, or in Heavens you're falsely claiming.

Where the clouds are, and we shall be caught up together with them who rise from the grave, 'inside the clouds'


Next, the church underwent the Great Tribulation during the reign of anti-Christ, uncomplying and were persecuted.

And them we're witnessing in Heaven included in the 'first resurrection', that is after anti-Christ and the false prophet are cast into the lake of fire burning with brimstone.

For even satan was bound in the bottomless pit, and they from then on reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Therefore the 'first resurrection' takes place after the Great Tribulation, meaning, post-Tribulation rapture.

Revelation 7:
14. And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Historically, the true church, besides the lukewarm ones, did undergo tribulation worldwide, even the scripture depicts prophetically would undergo the Great Tribulation as well in the future.

Am not going to go around in circle debating your lack of credibility version and not tangible to the scripture quote and doctrine.

Readers, decide for yourself whether it's a. Pre-Trib rapture or Mid-Trib rapture or Post-Trib rapture, for our testimony scripture and doctrine based is sound.

Thank you and shalom in the name of Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Lets go read about the first one in Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

So lets rewind a bit and see this first resurrection, because we need to understand how this came to be. This next verse we are going to read take place toward the ending of the great tribulation. After the sky roll back and sun and moon do not give her light. Lets read this in Revelation 6: 12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. 14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

So after the sky is roll back, there will be some time in between, because the lord will be looking at the people who pierce him. Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. (Rev. 1:7)

Now let see when the Lord is descending or coming down, and notice Jesus not coming with anybody, he coming alone.

Lets go into 1 Thessalonians 4: 13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

If you sleep in Jesus it means you have done his will. Lets keep reading and see how Jesus bring the saints with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

This verse just told us that some will be alive to be in this first resurrection, the coming of Jesus, and there are those who will be asleep. Notice they asleep and not in heaven chilling and watching over people, smiling at all this hell going on.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Notice: Only the dead in Christ will rise first, but the Lord has descended...meaning coming down

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Notice we those that where asleep or dead rise first, then those which are alive and remain rise next, to meet the Lord in the air, and altogether we the first resurrection.

Paul said in 1 Thessalonians 3:13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

Now let's go back and take a look at the second resurrection into Revelation 20: 11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Lets go read about the first one in Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

So lets rewind a bit and see this first resurrection, because we need to understand how this came to be. This next verse we are going to read take place toward the ending of the great tribulation. After the sky roll back and sun and moon do not give her light. Lets read this in Revelation 6: 12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. 14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

So after the sky is roll back, there will be some time in between, because the lord will be looking at the people who pierce him. Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. (Rev. 1:7)

Now let see when the Lord is descending or coming down, and notice Jesus not coming with anybody, he coming alone.

Lets go into 1 Thessalonians 4: 13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

If you sleep in Jesus it means you have done his will. Lets keep reading and see how Jesus bring the saints with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

This verse just told us that some will be alive to be in this first resurrection, the coming of Jesus, and there are those who will be asleep. Notice they asleep and not in heaven chilling and watching over people, smiling at all this hell going on.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Notice: Only the dead in Christ will rise first, but the Lord has descended...meaning coming down

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Notice we those that where asleep or dead rise first, then those which are alive and remain rise next, to meet the Lord in the air, and altogether we the first resurrection.

Paul said in 1 Thessalonians 3:13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

Now let's go back and take a look at the second resurrection into Revelation 20: 11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Now read it without imagining a postrib rapture.

You added a ton of stuff.
Way way off.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Apparently the meeting point is in the 'air', not on earth, or in Heavens you're falsely claiming.

and your point?

Next, the church underwent the Great Tribulation during the reign of anti-Christ, uncomplying and were persecuted.

Underwent? are you saying the great tribulation and the antichirist have already happened?

Therefore the 'first resurrection' takes place after the Great Tribulation, meaning, post-Tribulation rapture.

So Jesus is on His way down to earth and when He gets into the atmosphere, He is going to raise the dead and snatch the believers off teh earth in the minute or two before He lands on earth? do you really believe that?

Revelation 7:
14. And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Historically, the true church, besides the lukewarm ones, did undergo tribulation worldwide, even the scripture depicts prophetically would undergo the Great Tribulation as well in the future.

So are y0u saying the earth has been undergoing great tribulation for nearly 2000 years now?

What the bible calls the tribulation (Matt. 24, Luke, JOhn in revelation, and numerous OT prophecies) is the 70th week of Daniel to prepare Israel as a nation to receive her Messiah.

Am not going to go around in circle debating your lack of credibility version and not tangible to the scripture quote and doctrine.

Readers, decide for yourself whether it's a. Pre-Trib rapture or Mid-Trib rapture or Post-Trib rapture, for our testimony scripture and doctrine based is sound.

What are you saying here? Your grammar is atrocious and I cannot comprehend the point you are trying to make other than you accusing me of a lack of credibility.

 

[bro.tan]

Now read it without imagining a postrib rapture.

You added a ton of stuff.
Way way off.

Not way off at all, just a matter of understanding, knowledge and wisdom. There is no posttrib or rapture written in the Bible. If you are not dead in the ground, you will be apart of this great tribulation on earth!

 

[Fred J]

and your point?

My given point is, the church saints shall be caught up together with them 'in' the 'clouds', to meet the Lord in the air.

But you were mentioning, 'atmosphere' and '2nd Heaven', but scripture do not quote such.

Underwent? are you saying the great tribulation and the antichirist have already happened?

You're saying that.

But am referring to Revelation 20:3&4, that says the church saints underwent the Great Tribulation under the reign of anti-Christ and the false prophet.

These are the church saint souls, Apostle John saw already in Heaven, therefore the 'first resurrection' happened before Christ came down to earth, and until all are taken up.

For example, if the church saints can be changed in the twinkling of an eye, why can't the rapture happened in a moment, or an hour for GOD.

Next Christ and His angels came down to earth to war against anti-Christ and the kings of the earth and their armies.

And anti-Christ and the false prophet were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone, and also satan is bound into the bottomless pit.

The souls whom John saw in Heaven, are also those made it in the 'first resurrection', therefore it is post-Great Tribulation rapture, and after that the thousand years of peace.

So Jesus is on His way down to earth and when He gets into the atmosphere, He is going to raise the dead and snatch the believers off teh earth in the minute or two before He lands on earth? do you really believe that?

Again it's your saying

So are y0u saying the earth has been undergoing great tribulation for nearly 2000 years now?

Read the scripture carefully, there's tribulation for the church saints after Christ, and there's Great Tribulation that is coming for the church saints as well.

Watch CBN news that are reported and not reported, in the world many true church saints are being persecuted for their faith in Christ, while the 'lukewarm' church is safe.

What the bible calls the tribulation (Matt. 24, Luke, JOhn in revelation, and numerous OT prophecies) is the 70th week of Daniel to prepare Israel as a nation to receive her Messiah.

If mentioned only Israel as a nation to receive her Messiah, it already come to pass in the Gospel itself.

What are you saying here? Your grammar is atrocious and I cannot comprehend the point you are trying to make other than you accusing me of a lack of credibility.

Based on the reply as above, it shows you're immature and lack of credibility responding in your carnal intellect.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Not way off at all, just a matter of understanding, knowledge and wisdom. There is no posttrib or rapture written in the Bible. If you are not dead in the ground, you will be apart of this great tribulation on earth!

1) the doctrine you are supporting is from the NIV translation.
2) The NIV INCORRECTLY reads " they came to life"
That is what started all that false mess to begin with.
3) The problem is, the NIV is the DOMINANT VERSION in the churches.
So...you have tons of people like yourself with some HUGE investment in a farce.

4) The first resurrection is ALL THOSE IN CHRIST.
5) JESUS WAS FIRST.
Those in paradise with Jesus.
THEY TOGETHER ARE THE FIRSTFRUITS of THE FIRST RESURRECTION
The bible invokes HARVEST due to invoking firstfruits.
6) HARVEST IS 4 PARTS.
IN Christ, THE REASON for the resurrection, is to be BODILY IN HEAVEN AS JESUS AND THE PATRIACHS ARE BODILY IN HEAVEN.

7) The resurrection is completed way before where you think it is.

8) The reason for the 4 part harvest is to attend the marriage supper in heaven.
All those in Christ resurrected way before your doctrine places it.
Then the Jews gathered in Rev 14 right before the wrath.
ALL IN HEAVEN FOR THE MARRIAGE SUPPER.

So now we Do NOT NEED Rev 20 to declare a resurrection where it says NOTHING of a resurrection after the 7 yr trib.
It just says John saw "those PREVIOSLY RESURRECTED years prior," sitting on thrones.

NIV HOAX, that Christians bought into, via omission of God's word, and understanding.

 

[Fred J]

Not way off at all, just a matter of understanding, knowledge and wisdom.

From where that you speak of above, comes, and do we put the scripture aside?

There is no posttrib or rapture written in the Bible.

In those words no, but in other words and similar meaning according to wisdom given the church, yes!

'First resurrection' or in other words 'rapture'. (1Thessalonians4:14-17)

(Prior to this only Christ qualify and remain, and alone, the firstfruit of resurrection or firstborn from the dead.)

Who are included in the 'first resurrection'(which afterwards only the church saints then qualify)??

Revelation 20:4!!

Therefore the church saints went through the Great Tribulation, souls witnessed by John already in Heaven.

'Beheaded', during anti-Christ's rule, whilst assisted by the false prophets, the kings of the earth and their armies.

And those who 'came out' of the Great Tribulation, whether dead or alive, and not escaped it!! (Revelation7:14)

What's after the 'first resurrection'??

The 'Great Tribulation' starts, to claim pre-trib rapture or 'continues', to claim mid-trib rapture??

No!!

The answer is, 'a thousand years of peace'!!

Why peace?

Because, anti-Christ and the false prophet been cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone, and not come out.

And, satan likewise been bound in the bottomless pit for the same thousand years, and will be let loose after that!!

If you are not dead in the ground, you will be apart of this great tribulation on earth!

??

 

[bro.tan]

From where that you speak of above, comes, and do we put the scripture aside?

In those words no, but in other words and similar meaning according to wisdom given the church, yes!

'First resurrection' or in other words 'rapture'. (1Thessalonians4:14-17)

(Prior to this only Christ qualify and remain, and alone, the firstfruit of resurrection or firstborn from the dead.)

Who are included in the 'first resurrection'(which afterwards only the church saints then qualify)??

Revelation 20:4!!

Therefore the church saints went through the Great Tribulation, souls witnessed by John already in Heaven.

'Beheaded', during anti-Christ's rule, whilst assisted by the false prophets, the kings of the earth and their armies.

And those who 'came out' of the Great Tribulation, whether dead or alive, and not escaped it!! (Revelation7:14)

What's after the 'first resurrection'??

The 'Great Tribulation' starts, to claim pre-trib rapture or 'continues', to claim mid-trib rapture??

No!!

The answer is, 'a thousand years of peace'!!

Why peace?

Because, anti-Christ and the false prophet been cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone, and not come out.

And, satan likewise been bound in the bottomless pit for the same thousand years, and will be let loose after that!!


??

Let’s take a look at Jesus coming in Matthew 24: 29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 and then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. This includes (1Thessalonians4:14-17)

Now all this will start after the great tribulation. So if you live through the great tribulation, you will change and if you sleep in christ, you will raise and or change. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. (1 Corinthians 15: 51, 52) These are only the saints. Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. (Revelation 14:12) Notice the saints kept the commandments, these are the Ten Commandments brothers and Sisters.

Let's go to Revelation 20: 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

There's more verses to add but this is the first to understand here. This is all within the same event at this time.

 

[bro.tan]

1) the doctrine you are supporting is from the NIV translation.
2) The NIV INCORRECTLY reads " they came to life"
That is what started all that false mess to begin with.
3) The problem is, the NIV is the DOMINANT VERSION in the churches.
So...you have tons of people like yourself with some HUGE investment in a farce.

4) The first resurrection is ALL THOSE IN CHRIST.
5) JESUS WAS FIRST.
Those in paradise with Jesus.
THEY TOGETHER ARE THE FIRSTFRUITS of THE FIRST RESURRECTION
The bible invokes HARVEST due to invoking firstfruits.
6) HARVEST IS 4 PARTS.
IN Christ, THE REASON for the resurrection, is to be BODILY IN HEAVEN AS JESUS AND THE PATRIACHS ARE BODILY IN HEAVEN.

7) The resurrection is completed way before where you think it is.

8) The reason for the 4 part harvest is to attend the marriage supper in heaven.
All those in Christ resurrected way before your doctrine places it.
Then the Jews gathered in Rev 14 right before the wrath.
ALL IN HEAVEN FOR THE MARRIAGE SUPPER.

So now we Do NOT NEED Rev 20 to declare a resurrection where it says NOTHING of a resurrection after the 7 yr trib.
It just says John saw "those PREVIOSLY RESURRECTED years prior," sitting on thrones.

NIV HOAX, that Christians bought into, via omission of God's word, and understanding.

Let’s take a look at Jesus coming in Matthew 24: 29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 and then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. This includes (1Thessalonians4:14-17)

Now all this will start after the great tribulation. So if you live through the great tribulation, you will change and if you sleep in christ, you will raise and or change. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. (1 Corinthians 15: 51, 52) These are only the saints. Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. (Revelation 14:12) Notice the saints kept the commandments, these are the Ten Commandments brothers and Sisters.

Let's go to Revelation 20: 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

There's more verses to add but this is the first to understand here. This is all within the same event at this time.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

My given point is, the church saints shall be caught up together with them 'in' the 'clouds', to meet the Lord in the air.

But you were mentioning, 'atmosphere' and '2nd Heaven', but scripture do not quote such.

You're saying that.

But am referring to Revelation 20:3&4, that says the church saints underwent the Great Tribulation under the reign of anti-Christ and the false prophet.

These are the church saint souls, Apostle John saw already in Heaven, therefore the 'first resurrection' happened before Christ came down to earth, and until all are taken up.

For example, if the church saints can be changed in the twinkling of an eye, why can't the rapture happened in a moment, or an hour for GOD.

Next Christ and His angels came down to earth to war against anti-Christ and the kings of the earth and their armies.

And anti-Christ and the false prophet were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone, and also satan is bound into the bottomless pit.

The souls whom John saw in Heaven, are also those made it in the 'first resurrection', therefore it is post-Great Tribulation rapture, and after that the thousand years of peace.

Again it's your saying

Read the scripture carefully, there's tribulation for the church saints after Christ, and there's Great Tribulation that is coming for the church saints as well.

Watch CBN news that are reported and not reported, in the world many true church saints are being persecuted for their faith in Christ, while the 'lukewarm' church is safe.

If mentioned only Israel as a nation to receive her Messiah, it already come to pass in the Gospel itself.

Based on the reply as above, it shows you're immature and lack of credibility responding in your carnal intellect.

Well I cannot argue with you. You have created your own version of the Bible based on extreme allegorical reinterpretations. Be well in your man made religion. Have the last word if you wish.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Let’s take a look at Jesus coming in Matthew 24: 29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 and then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. This includes (1Thessalonians4:14-17)

Now all this will start after the great tribulation. So if you live through the great tribulation, you will change and if you sleep in christ, you will raise and or change. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. (1 Corinthians 15: 51, 52) These are only the saints. Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. (Revelation 14:12) Notice the saints kept the commandments, these are the Ten Commandments brothers and Sisters.

Let's go to Revelation 20: 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

There's more verses to add but this is the first to understand here. This is all within the same event at this time.

QUOTE
""Let’s take a look at Jesus coming in Matthew 24: 29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 and then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. This includes (1Thessalonians4:14-17)""

Matt 24 is damaging to a postrib rapture theory.
Which you just demonstrated!
In the rapture Jesus gathers from earth.
In mat 24 vs 31is says;
"(after the trib) ANGELS GATHER ( not Jesus), FROM HEAVEN ( not earth)...
WHICH YOU OMITTED!!!!
You took that verse out!!!!

Matt 24 says that Jesus comes after the trib in power and great glory.
Ahem....that is the second coming ...YES AFTER THE TRIB, ON MILLIONS OF WHITE HORSES.

1thes 4 has no such setting.
You did all that MODIFICATION TO mat 24!!!
WHY????
WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT?????

 

[rebuilder 454]

Let’s take a look at Jesus coming in Matthew 24: 29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 and then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. This includes (1Thessalonians4:14-17)

Now all this will start after the great tribulation. So if you live through the great tribulation, you will change and if you sleep in christ, you will raise and or change. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. (1 Corinthians 15: 51, 52) These are only the saints. Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. (Revelation 14:12) Notice the saints kept the commandments, these are the Ten Commandments brothers and Sisters.

Let's go to Revelation 20: 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

There's more verses to add but this is the first to understand here. This is all within the same event at this time.

Now take a closer look .
By Jesus depicted as the FIRSTFRUITS OF THE FIRST RESURRECTION, that points directly to harvest.
Harvest is 4 parts.
1st resurrection is 4 parts.
Name them.
I will wait.

 

[bro.tan]

Now take a closer look .
By Jesus depicted as the FIRSTFRUITS OF THE FIRST RESURRECTION, that points directly to harvest.
Harvest is 4 parts.
1st resurrection is 4 parts.
Name them.
I will wait.

Since you saying all this you show me with scriptures and verses.

 

[David in NJ]

5. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of GOD and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

Dear readers,

The scripture reads, 'first resurrection', and not, 'the resurrection', could it be there's a 'second resurrection' after the 'thousand years'?

Also it reads, 'But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished'.

In other words, there's no resurrection of the dead until the thousand years were finished?

We know the second coming of Jesus will be until the clouds, where the dead in Christ shall rise and the living, both will be changed, and taken up to meet Him in the clouds.

Therefore this is the 'first resurrection' which takes place after the Great Tribulation, where the church saints came out of it persecuted dead or alive.

Then His third coming with His angels on earth to confront the beast and kings of the earth, and their armies, who'll wage war.

Furthermore it reads, 'Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such second death hath no power'.

Looks like not all who are in Christ hath part in the first resurrection, as also relating to the parable, 'one will be taken while the other left behind' and the 'ten virgins'.

So the church left behind will face a thousand years, hence the second death hath power over them?

Thank you and shalom in the name of Lord Jesus Christ

the First Resurrection is THE Resurrection = GOSPEL, OT Prophets , 1 Thess 4:13-18 and 1 Cor ch15

 

[David in NJ]

Now take a closer look .
By Jesus depicted as the FIRSTFRUITS OF THE FIRST RESURRECTION, that points directly to harvest.
Harvest is 4 parts.
1st resurrection is 4 parts.
Name them.
I will wait.

NOPE

ONE HARVEST at the End of the AGE = GOSPEL

“Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a dragnet that was cast into the sea and gathered some of every kind,
which, when it was full, they drew to shore; and they sat down and gathered the good into vessels, but threw the bad away.
So it will be at the end of the age.
The angels will come forth, separate the wicked from among the just, and cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.”

 

[bro.tan]

QUOTE
""Let’s take a look at Jesus coming in Matthew 24: 29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 and then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. This includes (1Thessalonians4:14-17)""

Matt 24 is damaging to a postrib rapture theory.

Maybe if you stop using words that not in the Bible, that would help me understand you better.

Which you just demonstrated!
In the rapture Jesus gathers from earth.
In mat 24 vs 31is says;
"(after the trib) ANGELS GATHER ( not Jesus), FROM HEAVEN ( not earth)...
WHICH YOU OMITTED!!!!
You took that verse out!!!!

Matt 24 says that Jesus comes after the trib in power and great glory.
Ahem....that is the second coming ...YES AFTER THE TRIB, ON MILLIONS OF WHITE HORSES.

1thes 4 has no such setting.
You did all that MODIFICATION TO mat 24!!!
WHY????
WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT?????

 

[rebuilder 454]

Since you saying all this you show me with scriptures and verses.

I asked you to name the 4 parts of harvest.

Your reply is "show me"?

What I am demonstrating is the omission of critical end times foundational understanding.

If the "harvest" component is left out of end times view, we are GUARANTEED error.