Matthew 24:30 may have a significant mistranslation

[Spiritual Israelite]

He knew too that he didn't have to. But still, as you can see from the extract I have given, it was at that time (until 70 AD) still accepted with God.

It was tolerated for a time, but not required. Again, the old covenant was made obsolete by the blood of Christ, not by the events of 70 AD.

If the Old Covenant (which is Gods covenant) still continues, then it is still in effect.

It did not continue by God's command. You believe that Christ's blood established the new covenant, don't you? How could both the new covenant and old covenant be in effect at the same time? That's not possible. The better new covenant replaced the inferior old covenant, according to Hebrews 8:6-7. Do you not know what the word obsolete means? The old covenant became obsolete upon the death of Christ when the veil of the temple was torn in two to signify that. To be obsolete means to come to an end. To no longer be in effect.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Bad translation of this verse. The word "First" applies to the verb "to shew light unto the people and to the Gentiles" - NOT to the verb "rise from the dead". Christ was the first to do this after He had risen from the dead with His command, "Go ye into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature...". Not just to the lost sheep of the house of Israel anymore, but to the Gentiles as well. And Christ was the FIRST to command that this gospel evangelism be done in Gentile lands.

Nonsense. You have apparently decided that you don't want to be taken seriously. You are twisting scripture left and right to make it fit your doctrine. You should be ashamed of yourself. It is not a bad translation of the verse and is similar to many other translations of the verse. Show me a translation that you think is better that lines up with your understanding of the verse.

 

[3 Resurrections]

Please quote those OT passages.

You should be well aware of the widow of Zarephath's son raised to life again in 1 Kings 17:22, and the Shunammite's son raised to life again in 2 Kings 4. "Women received their dead raised to life again..." Hebrews 11:35 reminds us. There is also the dead man who came to life again by his dead body touching the prophet's bones. So three examples of bodily resurrections from the OT, as well as the deathless Melchizedek who was still alive as Hebrews 7:8 was being written. All of these left this planet back in the AD 70 return of Christ.

 

[ProDeo]

For what it is worth...

In Paul’s comments, “alive and remain” simply means still living at the Lord’s coming—ordinary believers who haven’t died. Paul even includes himself in the “we,” not a special class of previously resurrected people. The sequence is plain: the Lord descends, the dead in Christ rise first, and then those living are caught up together with them to meet the Lord and be with Him forever. That doesn’t fit the idea that “alive and remaining” refers to folks like Lazarus or the saints of Matthew 27 who had already been raised earlier.

Scripture treats Lazarus and Dorcas as restored to mortal life (they eat, walk, and later die again); it never says they lived on for decades awaiting a unique AD 70 catching-up. Matthew’s brief note about “many bodies of the saints” being raised is a sign tied to Jesus’ death and resurrection, not the start of a new, separate category of semi-glorified believers who linger until 70. The New Testament reserves the general resurrection/glorification for the Lord’s return (1 Cor 15:20–23, 51–54).

Because Jesus’ warnings in Luke 21 and Matthew 24 about the abomination/desolation and “Jerusalem surrounded by armies” concern a local judgment on Judea in that generation. Fleeing spared lives during the Roman siege—an event most agree took place in AD 70. Those instructions make perfect sense even if the Parousia (the appearing described in 1 Thess 4; Acts 1:11) is a different event. Put simply: the flight sayings address survival in a specific war, while the catching-up addresses the worldwide gathering at the Lord’s appearing. Conflating the two collapses categories the texts keep distinct.

The New Testament’s language for the Lord’s appearing is universal, public, and consummating: “this same Jesus… will come in the same way you saw Him go” (Acts 1:11); “every eye will see Him” (Rev 1:7); He comes with “a cry of command… the trumpet of God,” the dead raised, the living transformed, and “we shall always be with the Lord” (1 Thess 4:16–17; 1 Cor 15:52–54). If that occurred in AD 70, it’s hard to explain why the post-70 churches—who certainly remembered the war—continued to look ahead to Christ’s future appearing and a still-future resurrection, rather than celebrating it as already accomplished.

Paul order of events shows that all who belong to Christ (dead and living) are gathered at His coming (1 Cor 15:23; 1 Thess 4:16–17). That’s why the New Testament ties the catching-up to the end (final resurrection, judgment, new creation), not to the fall of Jerusalem. The growth of the church after 70—which I’m glad we all acknowledge—fits perfectly if AD 70 was the fulfillment of Jesus’ Jerusalem prophecies and a sign of God’s faithfulness, but not the day of the universal resurrection and catching-up.

The missing parts in your theory -

1. Matt 25:31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne.
Matt 25:32 Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.

There is no shred of evidence we live in Christ 1000 year reign, or that the final judgement Matt 25 speaks about already took place, that Christ sits sits on his glorious throne on Earth.

2. The new Jerusalem from heaven, where is it located ?

 

[3 Resurrections]

Nonsense. You have apparently decided that you don't want to be taken seriously. You are twisting scripture left and right to make it fit your doctrine. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Why should I be ashamed of consulting various translations that do a better job of staying true to the original languages? Especially when it helps to reconcile all the Scriptures which seem to be in conflict. Why don't you accuse Biblehub of "twisting" the scriptures by giving all the various translations in one place?

 

[David in NJ]

Bad translation of this verse. The word "First" applies to the verb "to shew light unto the people and to the Gentiles" - NOT to the verb "rise from the dead". Christ was the first to do this after He had risen from the dead with His command, "Go ye into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature...". Not just to the lost sheep of the house of Israel anymore, but to the Gentiles as well. And Christ was the FIRST to command that this gospel evangelism be done in Gentile lands.

that
εἰ (ei)
Conjunction
Strong's Greek 1487: If. A primary particle of conditionality; if, whether, that, etc.

Christ
Χριστός (Christos)
Noun - Nominative Masculine Singular
Strong's Greek 5547: Anointed One; the Messiah, the Christ. From chrio; Anointed One, i.e. The Messiah, an epithet of Jesus.

would suffer,
παθητὸς (pathētos)
Adjective - Nominative Masculine Singular
Strong's Greek 3805: Destined to suffer. From the same as pathema; liable to experience pain.

[and as the]
εἰ (ei)
Conjunction
Strong's Greek 1487: If. A primary particle of conditionality; if, whether, that, etc.

first
πρῶτος (prōtos)
Adjective - Nominative Masculine Singular
Strong's Greek 4413: First, before, principal, most important. Contracted superlative of pro; foremost.

to rise
ἀναστάσεως (anastaseōs)
Noun - Genitive Feminine Singular
Strong's Greek 386: A rising again, resurrection. From anistemi; a standing up again, i.e. a resurrection from death (its author), or a recovery.

from
ἐξ (ex)
Preposition
Strong's Greek 1537: From out, out from among, from, suggesting from the interior outwards. A primary preposition denoting origin, from, out.

[the] dead,
νεκρῶν (nekrōn)
Adjective - Genitive Masculine Plural
Strong's Greek 3498: (a) adj: dead, lifeless, subject to death, mortal, (b) noun: a dead body, a corpse. From an apparently primary nekus; dead.

He would
μέλλει (mellei)
Verb - Present Indicative Active - 3rd Person Singular
Strong's Greek 3195: A strengthened form of melo; to intend, i.e. Be about to be, do, or suffer something.

proclaim
καταγγέλλειν (katangellein)
Verb - Present Infinitive Active
Strong's Greek 2605: To declare openly, proclaim, preach, laud, celebrate. From kata and the base of aggelos; to proclaim, promulgate.

light
φῶς (phōs)
Noun - Accusative Neuter Singular
Strong's Greek 5457: Light, a source of light, radiance. From an obsolete phao; luminousness.

to
τῷ (tō)
Article - Dative Masculine Singular
Strong's Greek 3588: The, the definite article. Including the feminine he, and the neuter to in all their inflections; the definite article; the.

our people
λαῷ (laō)
Noun - Dative Masculine Singular
Strong's Greek 2992: Apparently a primary word; a people.

and
καὶ (kai)
Conjunction
Strong's Greek 2532: And, even, also, namely.

to the
τοῖς (tois)
Article - Dative Neuter Plural
Strong's Greek 3588: The, the definite article. Including the feminine he, and the neuter to in all their inflections; the definite article; the.

Gentiles.
ἔθνεσιν (ethnesin)
Noun - Dative Neuter Plural
Strong's Greek 1484: Probably from etho; a race, i.e. A tribe; specially, a foreign one.
backtracking

 

[David in NJ]

You should be well aware of the widow of Zarephath's son raised to life again in 1 Kings 17:22, and the Shunammite's son raised to life again in 2 Kings 4. "Women received their dead raised to life again..." Hebrews 11:35 reminds us. There is also the dead man who came to life again by his dead body touching the prophet's bones. So three examples of bodily resurrections from the OT, as well as the deathless Melchizedek who was still alive as Hebrews 7:8 was being written. All of these left this planet back in the AD 70 return of Christ.

"All of these" previous resurrections were not unto Glorification

 

[David in NJ]

Of course that was true - but that was at the time Christ was then speaking to Nicodemus. That statement did not remain true. We can see in Scripture exactly when resurrected mankind was first allowed access into heaven's temple, and it was when the seventh plague had been poured out in Revelation 15:8. That plague was performed back in the first century in AD 70 and is already fulfilled. Which means resurrected mankind was able to enter heaven's temple back then.

CHRIST's words always remain TRUTH

We can see in Scripture exactly when resurrected mankind was first allowed access into heaven's temple, and it was when the seventh plague had been poured out in Revelation 15:8.

#1 - Mankind has not yet been Resurrected
#2 - The 7th Plague has not been poured out yet
#3 - CHRIST is the MAN in Heaven in a Glorified Body

The faster you let go of that 70AD falsehood, the faster God will give you LIGHT to SEE

 

[3 Resurrections]

In Paul’s comments, “alive and remain” simply means still living at the Lord’s coming—ordinary believers who haven’t died. Paul even includes himself in the “we,” not a special class of previously resurrected people. The sequence is plain: the Lord descends, the dead in Christ rise first, and then those living are caught up together with them to meet the Lord and be with Him forever.

The sequence does not say that merely the living would be caught up together with the resurrected ones. It says "we who are alive and REMAIN shall be caught up together with them...". Paul saying "we" was speaking as a representative of the church at large; he was not saying that he would be alive when Christ returned.

Pay careful attention to the word "REMAIN". The Greek is "perileipomenoi" which implies a special reserved status. This wasn't just merely the living who had never died. These "living" and "remaining" ones were such as the beloved disciple Lazarus whom Christ said would "remain" until He came.

There is a problem with thinking that the living can merely be caught up without first passing through death and a resurrection change of the body to the incorruptible and immortal before they enter heaven. NO man can look upon God and survive who has not passed through physical death and then the change into the incorruptible and immortal by the Holy Spirit's power. And there is absolutely no mention in 1 Thess. 4 of these "living" and "remaining" ones being changed. That is because they had already been through that resurrection change process, such as Lazarus and the Matt. 27:52-53 saints had experienced.

 

[CTK]

The sequence does not say that merely the living would be caught up together with the resurrected ones. It says "we who are alive and REMAIN shall be caught up together with them...". Paul saying "we" was speaking as a representative of the church at large; he was not saying that he would be alive when Christ returned.

Pay careful attention to the word "REMAIN". The Greek is "perileipomenoi" which implies a special reserved status. This wasn't just merely the living who had never died. These "living" and "remaining" ones were such as the beloved disciple Lazarus whom Christ said would "remain" until He came.

There is a problem with thinking that the living can merely be caught up without first passing through death and a resurrection change of the body to the incorruptible and immortal before they enter heaven. NO man can look upon God and survive who has not passed through physical death and then the change into the incorruptible and immortal by the Holy Spirit's power. And there is absolutely no mention in 1 Thess. 4 of these "living" and "remaining" ones being changed. That is because they had already been through that resurrection change process, such as Lazarus and the Matt. 27:52-53 saints had experienced.

Thanks, I think we will have to disagree on this...

 

[kdx]

It was tolerated for a time, but not required.

Yeah you can say it that way. Tolerated, or accepted. But definitely not required.

Again, the old covenant was made obsolete by the blood of Christ, not by the events of 70 AD.

The Old Covenant never was an alternative to Christ, even before Christs advent and crucifixion. So there isn't a direct correlation between the Old Covenant and Christ, in the sense that now that Christ is come and done his work, the Old Covenant automatically ceased to be. People were saved, in the Old Testament times, not by means of the Old Covenant, but under the Old Covenant, which is a different thing. Salvation has always been by Christ alone, typified under the Old Covenant worship, and completely revealed in the New Testament times.

You believe that Christ's blood established the new covenant, don't you? How could both the new covenant and old covenant be in effect at the same time?

Why couldn't they be in effect at the same time? They don't have the same end. I think you assume that both covenants have for their end the salvation of the soul, but this is not the case. The Old Covenant never had as it's goal the salvation of the soul, you could never achieve salvation by keeping the Old Covenant.

So they are entirely different as to their purpose, so no problem for them being in effect at the same time for a while.

 

[3 Resurrections]

CHRIST's words always remain TRUTH

So circumcision is still a requirement, since it was supposed to be a forever ritual? And the Levitical high priesthood is still in existence because that was called a forever thing also? There are changes in the law, Hebrews says. What once used to be true in John 3:13 about no man having yet ascended to heaven is no longer a reality. It was true at the time, but not any more. Just as "no man knoweth the day nor the hour" was true when that was spoken, but that ignorance did not last once God gave the Revelation to Christ to pass on to John to show His servants what was about to happen in the near future for them regarding Christ's soon-coming return.

#3 - CHRIST is the MAN in Heaven in a Glorified Body

Of course He is. And He brought many sons to glory with Him in AD 70. You just missed the news bulletins that were blasted all over the NT.

 

[3 Resurrections]

"All of these" previous resurrections were not unto Glorification

Nonsense. Once the spirit departs, a dead body which is raised to life again is only due to the Holy Spirit's power. You might as well say that you can kill the Holy Spirit itself. "It is appointed unto men ONCE TO DIE, and after that the judgment" (Heb. 9:27). There is no such thing a resurrected person dying twice physically. A resurrected body IS a glorified body that has been rendered capable of standing before God in heaven.

 

[3 Resurrections]

According to other scripture that you are either ignoring or don't have in your Bible, the wicked dead will most definitely be bodily resurrected.

You have no understanding about what a "resurrection to destruction" looks like, do you? The body and soul of the wicked both perish. God destroys them both for the wicked dead.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Why should I be ashamed of consulting various translations that do a better job of staying true to the original languages? Especially when it helps to reconcile all the Scriptures which seem to be in conflict. Why don't you accuse Biblehub of "twisting" the scriptures by giving all the various translations in one place?

I asked you to provide a translation of Acts 26:23 that matches your understanding of it and you didn't provide any. Should I assume you couldn't find any?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You have no understanding about what a "resurrection to destruction" looks like, do you? The body and soul of the wicked both perish. God destroys them both for the wicked dead.

Where do you get that from? You get everything wrong. You seem to have no spiritual discernment whatsoever. Scripture describes the wicked as experiencing eternal torment when they are judged and cast into the lake of fire.

Revelation 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, 10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: 11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

 

[David in NJ]

So circumcision is still a requirement, since it was supposed to be a forever ritual? And the Levitical high priesthood is still in existence because that was called a forever thing also? There are changes in the law, Hebrews says. What once used to be true in John 3:13 about no man having yet ascended to heaven is no longer a reality. It was true at the time, but not any more. Just as "no man knoweth the day nor the hour" was true when that was spoken, but that ignorance did not last once God gave the Revelation to Christ to pass on to John to show His servants what was about to happen in the near future for them regarding Christ's soon-coming return.


Of course He is. And He brought many sons to glory with Him in AD 70. You just missed the news bulletins that were blasted all over the NT.

There is not one "news bulletin" from the Apostles or the OT Prophets or Revelation of anyone other then CHRIST who is in Heaven in a Glorified Body.

Every Saint must wait for the Second Coming = GOSPEL/John 6:39-40 and 1 Thess 4:13-18 & 2 Thess ch2 & 1 Cor ch15


This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him/everyone UP at the last day.”

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be(future) made alive. But each one in his own order:
Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming.

 

[David in NJ]

Nonsense. Once the spirit departs, a dead body which is raised to life again is only due to the Holy Spirit's power. You might as well say that you can kill the Holy Spirit itself. "It is appointed unto men ONCE TO DIE, and after that the judgment" (Heb. 9:27). There is no such thing a resurrected person dying twice physically. A resurrected body IS a glorified body that has been rendered capable of standing before God in heaven.

You cannot negate the TRUTH with truth = you will only misinterpret/which you are doing

Your theories are from men and not from God = turn back to JESUS and His words of TRUTH

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Nonsense. Once the spirit departs, a dead body which is raised to life again is only due to the Holy Spirit's power. You might as well say that you can kill the Holy Spirit itself. "It is appointed unto men ONCE TO DIE, and after that the judgment" (Heb. 9:27). There is no such thing a resurrected person dying twice physically. A resurrected body IS a glorified body that has been rendered capable of standing before God in heaven.

Sometimes there are general rules in scripture that have a few exceptions. This is one of them. A vast majority of people who have ever lived have died once. But, some died twice and some will not die at all, such as those believers who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord (1 Thess 4:14-17). For your hyper-literal, rigid interpretation of Hebrews 9:27 to be true, you'd have to have those who are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord all die, but there is no indication of that at all. Why would they need to die?

 

[3 Resurrections]

Acts 26:23 says He was the first to rise from the dead, period, not the first to rise from the dead and then ascend to heaven. So, He was the first to rise from the dead with an incorruptible and immortal body. Who else did before Him? No one. Who else has since? No one. the dead in Christ will be resurrected unto bodily immortality at His future second coming.

If you think that none of those OT and NT examples of resurrections were to a glorified state because you think Christ had to be the first to have achieved this, you have created a Scripture contradiction for yourself. That would mean that all those bodily-resurrected individuals in the OT and NT died again for a second time. And Hebrews 9:27 declares that to be impossible, as well as Luke 20:36 that tells us "neither CAN they die anymore..."

The better translations of Acts 26:23 read, "...that the Christ is to suffer, whether first by a rising from the dead, he is about to proclaim light to the people and to the nations." (YLT). Or this one, "...how the Christ must suffer, and how, by the resurrection of the dead, he would be first to proclaim light both to these people and to the Gentiles." (WEB). There are several others that likewise recognize the correct verb being referred to. It solves the seeming contradiction problem.