How did the Trinity doctrine develop in the early church?

[GodsGrace]

But Yahweh says there is one God.



Yeshua is not an angel.



What part of Isaiah 53?


New Testament.

There IS only One God !

3 PERSONS in ONE GOD.

Jesus was accepted as being God from the very beginning.
This is NOT a new teaching by the CC.

The CC ALWAYS believed Jesus is God.
Those that the Apostles taught believed Jesus is God.

Please see my previous post, no. 1279.

 

[Grailhunter]

There IS only One God !

3 PERSONS in ONE GOD.

Jesus was accepted as being God from the very beginning.
This is NOT a new teaching by the CC.

The CC ALWAYS believed Jesus is God.
Those that the Apostles taught believed Jesus is God.

Please see my previous post, no. 1279.

Sorry it takes me a little bit to respond because this site locks up my browser.
Yeshua was accepted as being a God…..the Son of God....In the New Testament.
1. God the Father Yahweh.
2. God the Son Yeshua.
3. God the Holy Spirit the unnamed God.
Three Gods and no Divine blender….

The love of God and our Lord Jesus…..notice the and. The word and does mean equal or the same it means an addition.

Post 1279…..I know what the ECF’s said…..so?

 

[GodsGrace]

Sorry it takes me a little bit to respond because this site locks up my browser.
Yeshua was accepted as being a God…..the Son of God....In the New Testament.
1. God the Father Yahweh.
2. God the Son Yeshua.
3. God the Holy Spirit the unnamed God.
Three Gods and no Divine blender….

The love of God and our Lord Jesus…..notice the and. The word and does mean equal or the same it means an addition.

Post 1279…..I know what the ECF’s said…..so?

The NT teaches that Jesus is God.
The Apostles believed Jesus is God.
They passed this teaching on to the next generation...
which is who I posted.

You stated that the CC invented the theory of the Trinity after hundreds of years...
this is just not correct.

I'm going to stop posting about this...
The problem was in trying to understand who Jesus was.

At least you believe He's God...
but, as you've said, there is only one God...
so why have you created three?

This is tritheism at its best and polytheism at its worst.

 

[ProverbsInPink]

The NT teaches that Jesus is God.
The Apostles believed Jesus is God.
They passed this teaching on to the next generation...
which is who I posted.

You stated that the CC invented the theory of the Trinity after hundreds of years...
this is just not correct.

I'm going to stop posting about this...
The problem was in trying to understand who Jesus was.

At least you believe He's God...
but, as you've said, there is only one God...
so why have you created three?

This is tritheism at its best and polytheism at its worst.

One way to differentiate false doctrine is to realize,Jesus never taught God was Triune.
When you have seen me you have seen the Father.

The Word made esh.
Our God is One.

Something the CC could never corrupt. The Old Testimony of and from God.

Besides Me there is no Savior.

 

[Grailhunter]

The NT teaches that Jesus is God.
The Apostles believed Jesus is God.

Yeshua is a God.
But find in the New Testament the statement that Yeshua is God.
When speaking of Yahweh and Yeshua they would say things like…..the love of God and our Lord Jesus.
They believed there was only one God Almighty that was Yahweh.

The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all. 2nd Corinthians 13:4 notice the and(s)

And this is eternal life, that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent. John 17:3 Notice the and(s)

ands are additions not the same or equal.

You stated that the CC invented the theory of the Trinity after hundreds of years...
this is just not correct.

The McKenzie Bible Dictionary explains it this way.... “The Trinity of God is defined by the Church as the belief that in God there are three persons who subsist in one nature. The belief as so defined was reached only in the 4th and 5th centuries AD and hence is not explicitly or formally a biblical belief.” Which hold true to the fact that the word Trinity does not occur in the Holy Bible.

The Church this is talking about is the Roman Catholic Church during the Ecumenical Councils.

People like the hocus pocus of the three in one formula for the Trinity but it is not biblical. Over a hundred scriptures prove it wrong and it skews the meaning of over a hundred scriptures it is the one belief that hurts understanding of the Bible most.

But still you will not hurt my feelings if you quit posting about it.

 

[St. SteVen]

The McKenzie Bible Dictionary explains it this way.... “The Trinity of God is defined by the Church as the belief that in God there are three persons who subsist in one nature. The belief as so defined was reached only in the 4th and 5th centuries AD and hence is not explicitly or formally a biblical belief.” Which hold true to the fact that the word Trinity does not occur in the Holy Bible.

There are probably plenty of words defined by doctrines that are not found in the Bible.

 

[Hiddenthings]

Yeshua is a God.

Son of a....

 

[ProverbsInPink]

Yeshua is a God.
But find in the New Testament the statement that Yeshua is God.
When speaking of Yahweh and Yeshua they would say things like…..the love of God and our Lord Jesus.
They believed there was only one God Almighty that was Yahweh.

The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all. 2nd Corinthians 13:4 notice the and(s)

And this is eternal life, that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent. John 17:3 Notice the and(s)

ands are additions not the same or equal.


The McKenzie Bible Dictionary explains it this way.... “The Trinity of God is defined by the Church as the belief that in God there are three persons who subsist in one nature. The belief as so defined was reached only in the 4th and 5th centuries AD and hence is not explicitly or formally a biblical belief.” Which hold true to the fact that the word Trinity does not occur in the Holy Bible.

The Church this is talking about is the Roman Catholic Church during the Ecumenical Councils.

People like the hocus pocus of the three in one formula for the Trinity but it is not biblical. Over a hundred scriptures prove it wrong and it skews the meaning of over a hundred scriptures it is the one belief that hurts understanding of the Bible most.

But still you will not hurt my feelings if you quit posting about it.

Yeshua is God

You're trying to push polytheism here?

 

[Grailhunter]

Yeshua is God

You're trying to push polytheism here?

Exactly. A some do not like that.
The Gentiles that Paul converted were use to it.

But still for those that do not like it maybe Yahweh should have given it a second thought to having a Son. The Jews were looking for a human warlord Messiah….Maybe He should of just let the Messiah be a human and just continued Judaism and the Mosaic Law.

But then a human could not have provided salvation. The truth will set you free. So the Messiah had to be a God. But not just that, Yahweh did not create another God….a God did not make Himself an infant and fly up Miriam’s womb…..Yahweh begot a real Son so the Messiah would be a God and the Son of Yahweh. Christians are OK with the idea of the Son of God, just not the way it happens.

Yahweh and Yeshua were not worried about controversy. The requirement of the Bread and Wine ritual….drinking Yeshua’s blood and eating His body was an offensive idea to many then and today. His Apostles were shocked and He lost many of His disciples but it had to happen.

The real mystery is the un-named God the Holy Spirit, where did the Holy Spirit come from? The answer to that I think Christians would really not like. The reason the name of the Holy Spirit was not divulged.

 

[soberxp]

.

The real mystery is the un-named God the Holy Spirit, where did the Holy Spirit come from? The answer to that I think Christians would really not like. The reason the name of the Holy Spirit was not divulged.

Spiritual Eve......I guess.
But how about this time Spiritual Adam come from Holy spirit....as Eve was took from Adam's bone and flesh.

But whatever it is all will of God.

Hard to tell the thinking way of God.

Since Eve was once want to be as God, what if God knew it before and let it happen,
So Rome believe in All Gods........

I have always believed that myths from all over the world have their own significance.

But I still know there is only one true God.

What if God was want to made Gods as himself but as one..

Many of your own selves, that makes God himself happy?


Celestial being but not the only one true God.
神 God
神仙 Celestial being
仙人 Some kind of Ascension of Jesus Christ

 

[St. SteVen]

Celestial being but not the only one true God.
神 God
神仙 Celestial being
仙人 Some kind of Ascension of Jesus Christ

That's very interesting.
Do you have more insights like that to share?

I remember seeing this years ago.

 

[soberxp]

That's very interesting.
Do you have more insights like that to share?

I remember seeing this years ago.

I will,give you something else and new.

皇帝.emperor,In China, the emperor represented the Son of Heaven.
白 means white "the color of light"
王 king
上帝 The Lord God.

As in the pic of map, .The object on the man's head in the map is very similar to the one worn by Chinese emperors.


The first emperor to unify China possessed a imperial jade seal inscribed with: "Mandated by God, which is life eternal and prosperous"

皇后.Queen
皇后 Means "behind the king"
You could see a woman behind the man.

 

[GodsGrace]

Yeshua is a God.
But find in the New Testament the statement that Yeshua is God.

Can "a God" (instead of God)
forgive sins?
do miracles?
be worshipped?

Thomas called Jesus GOD...Jesus did not correct Him.

Why did Caiphas tear his robe?
Because he believed that Jesus blasphemed,,,calling Himself God. (not a god).

Find in the bible where it states that we shouldn't do drugs.
Find in the bible lots of behavior we shouldn't engage in that is excplicitly stated.

When speaking of Yahweh and Yeshua they would say things like…..the love of God and our Lord Jesus.
They believed there was only one God Almighty that was Yahweh.

GH,,,sometimes the AND means BOTH God and Savior.

Titus 2:13
13 looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,

Paul states WHO is the great God and Savior....
Christ Jesus.

One and the same.

1 Peter 1:3
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,

here Peter distinquishes between God Father and our Lord Jesus.


2 Peter 1:1b
...who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ:

Here there is no distinction...Peter calls Jesus God and Savior...Peter identifies Jesus as being BOTH.


When there are two similar passages...one with less information and one with more information...
the law of contextual criticism states that we must accept the passage with more information.

The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all. 2nd Corinthians 13:4 notice the and(s)

In this case you're right.
But NOT in every case.

Thomas:

John 20:28
28 Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!"

Thomas is calling Jesus BOTH Lord and God.

And this is eternal life, that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent. John 17:3 Notice the and(s)

ands are additions not the same or equal.

See above.
Jesus said THE FATHER AND I ARE ONE.

Are YOU one with the Father??

The McKenzie Bible Dictionary explains it this way.... “The Trinity of God is defined by the Church as the belief that in God there are three persons who subsist in one nature. The belief as so defined was reached only in the 4th and 5th centuries AD and hence is not explicitly or formally a biblical belief.” Which hold true to the fact that the word Trinity does not occur in the Holy Bible.

The Church this is talking about is the Roman Catholic Church during the Ecumenical Councils.

I believe I've already replied to this.

It was believed that jesus was God at the time of the Apostles and immediately thereafter...
I've posted writings of the early church fathers dating back to late 1st century and early 2nd century.

Can YOU provide historical proof that it was not believed that Jesus was God until the 4th or 5th century?


This is from AGNOSTIC Bart Ehrmann...even HE knows correct church history:

agnostic historian Bart Ehrman writes,

Constantine did call the Council of Nicea, and one of the issues involved Jesus’ divinity. But this was not a council that met to decide whether or not Jesus was divine.... Quite the contrary: everyone at the Council—in fact, just about every Christian everywhere—already agreed that Jesus was divine, the Son of God. The question being debated was how to understand Jesus’ divinity in light of the circumstance that he was also human. Moreover, how could both Jesus and God be God if there is only one God? Those were the issues that were addressed at Nicea, not whether or not Jesus was divine. And there certainly was no vote to determine Jesus’ divinity: this was already a matter of common knowledge among Christians, and had been from the early years of the religion. [Emphasis added.]3

source: Did the Council of Nicea Invent the Deity of Christ?


The Council of Nicea was NOT to confirm that Jesus was God...
this was already believed by the early church.

It was to explain HOW and combat the heresy of arianism.

I believe you know that councils were not to create new doctrine, but to confirm beliefs already present in the church.

People like the hocus pocus of the three in one formula for the Trinity but it is not biblical. Over a hundred scriptures prove it wrong and it skews the meaning of over a hundred scriptures it is the one belief that hurts understanding of the Bible most.

But still you will not hurt my feelings if you quit posting about it.

Some scripture sounds like OSAS is a correct doctrine.
But it is not.

We have to go by the laws of hermeneutics.
We have to be guided by the early church.
The early church believed Jesus to be God.

So are the JWs correct then?
So how many heretical doctrines on the Trinity are available to modern man?

So should we be taught by men of today...
or the Apostles and those that knew the Apostles?

 

[GodsGrace]

One way to differentiate false doctrine is to realize,Jesus never taught God was Triune.
When you have seen me you have seen the Father.

The Word made esh.
Our God is One.

Something the CC could never corrupt. The Old Testimony of and from God.

Besides Me there is no Savior.

I'm not sure what you're stating since it's the Catholic Church that confirmed that Jesus is God.

 

[soberxp]

I'm not sure what you're stating since it's the Catholic Church that confirmed that Jesus is God.

When they say my lord and my God.
It is two different things that says to each other.
You just want to mix it.
If I said "my father and my God."
Cau you tell me which one is I mention.

 

[GodsGrace]

When they say my lord and my God.
It is two different things that says to each other.
You just want to mix it.
If I said "my father and my God."
Cau you tell me which one is I mention.

If you say
MY FATHER AND MY GOD
and you're speaking to YOUR FATHER

Then your father is:

YOUR FATHER and
YOUR GOD.

BOTH.

 

[soberxp]

If you say
MY FATHER AND MY GOD
and you're speaking to YOUR FATHER

Then your father is:

YOUR FATHER and
YOUR GOD.

BOTH.

No, my dad is my dad, my dad is create by God.
and my God is my God, he is my father Of create.

Jehovah sounds as grandfather and children in Chinese....

I really Don't want to call my God， father.
I am not Jesus Christ.
If Eve is the mother of all, then God is grandfather of all.

 

[GodsGrace]

No, my dad is my dad, my dad is create by God.
and my God is my God, he is my father Of create.

Jehovah sounds as grandfather and children in Chinese....

I really Don't want to call my God， father.
I am not Jesus Christ.
If Eve is the mother of all, then God is grandfather of all.

Sorry soberxp,,,
I don't really understand what you're saying.

I read the NT and I believe what it says.
I don't try to make excuses for it or try to change what it means to suit what I THINK it means.

It means what it means.
Some accept it and some do not.

Must leave for a while.

 

[soberxp]

Sorry soberxp,,,
I don't really understand what you're saying.

I read the NT and I believe what it says.
I don't try to make excuses for it or try to change what it means to suit what I THINK it means.

It means what it means.
Some accept it and some do not.

Must leave for a while.

Eve is the mother of all, it is Bible.

then God is grandfather of all, it is logic.

if I call God the father, then Adam is the God......it is logic, so I can't and don't want to call God father......

I am sober, not Religious fanatic.

 

[Grailhunter]

Can "a God" (instead of God)
forgive sins?
do miracles?
be worshipped?

Yes

Thomas called Jesus GOD...Jesus did not correct Him.

And Yeshua called His Father God. We got Gods!

Why did Caiphas tear his robe?
Because he believed that Jesus blasphemed,,,calling Himself God. (not a god).

Not exactly....Son of God...
Matthew 25
62 Then Caiaphas stood up. He said to Jesus, ‘You must reply now to what these men have said against you. Are the things that they say true?’ 63 But Jesus did not say anything.

So Caiaphas said to him, ‘I use the authority of the God who lives. You must promise to tell us what is true. Are you the Messiah? Are you the Son of God?’

64 ‘You have said it,’ Jesus replied. ‘And I tell all of you, soon you will see the Son of Man. He will be sitting in the most important place at the right side of the Most Powerful God. You will also see him coming to earth. He will be riding on the clouds in the sky.’

65 Then Caiaphas tore his clothes to show that he was angry.[b] He said, ‘Jesus has spoken bad words against God. We do not need anyone else to speak against him. You have heard him speak bad words against God. 66 Do you think that he is guilty?’

They replied, ‘He is guilty and he deserves to die.’

GH,,,sometimes the AND means BOTH God and Savior.

Very seldom

Jesus said THE FATHER AND I ARE ONE.

Are YOU one with the Father??

I have posted where Yeshua explained the oneness concept and it can include all of us as one and it is part of the concept of the body of Christ.