"Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned."

[Jack]

Your senile question is demeaning.

You're preaching water baptism for salvation and you won't even tell us how you're baptized? What's wrong with this picture?

Let me try again: Were you baptized in Jesus' Name?

 

[gpresdo]

You're preaching water baptism for salvation and you won't even tell us how you're baptized? What's wrong with this picture?

Let me try again: Were you baptized in Jesus' Name?

When r u going to answer outstanding questions before you..first? You don't have a one sided communicator here. Do you understand english...yet? What is wrong with that picture?

 

[gpresdo]

Greetings gpresdo,

The thief on the cross was crucified with Christ in true faith and confession and experience. What we do symbolically he did in actual fact. He demonstrated more faith than most of the Apostles and his contemporaries believing in the resurrection of Jesus as the Messiah, and the return of Jesus to set up His Kingdom on the earth. He asked to be remembered when Jesus came to set up His Kingdom, and Jesus assured him then and there that he would be with Jesus when he came again.

Kind regards
Trevor

You are very correct in your conclusion.
That is outside of the baptism point.

 

[Jack]

When r u going to answer outstanding questions before you..first? You don't have a one sided communicator here. Do you understand english...yet? What is wrong with that picture?

I was baptized in Jesus' Name. Your turn. It seems that you're evading telling us that you were baptized wrong, while preaching water baptism salvation!

 

[gpresdo]

I was baptized in Jesus' Name. Your turn.

My last with you...where is the answer to my question?...which you owe.

 

[Jack]

My last with you...where is the answer to my question?...which you owe.

IOW, you don't want to even tell us how you were baptized. So stop preaching water baptism for salvation!

 

[LightBearer316]

Was Jesus referring to water baptism or spiritual baptism? I'm thinking it's the latter. What do you believe?

Mark 16:14-18
14 Afterward he appeared to the eleven themselves as they were reclining at table, and he rebuked them for their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they had not believed those who saw him after he had risen. 15 And he said to them, “Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: in my name they will cast out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18 they will pick up serpents with their hands; and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will recover.”

I don’t think Jesus was talking about some kind of “spiritual baptism” in Mark 16:16. The wording is pretty straightforward. In the early church, when someone believed the gospel, they immediately went and got baptized in water. It was the outward step that normally followed faith.


But notice something important in the verse:
Jesus doesn’t say, “He that isn’t baptized will be condemned.”
The only thing tied to condemnation is unbelief.


That lines up with the rest of the New Testament. Faith is what saves. Baptism comes after as the public identification with Christ. You see the same pattern in Acts over and over—people hear, they believe, and then they’re baptized.


So yes, it’s talking about water baptism, but not as the thing that actually saves anyone. It’s belief first, baptism second. The emphasis is clearly on faith, not the ritual.

Regarding Mark 16:16 KJV there would be two results of the preaching. Some would believe, be baptized, and be saved; some would disbelieve and be condemned.

Verse 16 is used by some to teach the necessity of water baptism for salvation. We know it cannot mean that for the following reasons:

1. The thief on the cross was not baptized; yet he was assured of being in Paradise with Christ (Luke 23:43 KJV).

2. The Gentiles in Caesarea were baptized after they were saved (Acts 10:44–48 KJV).

3. Jesus Himself did not baptize (John 4:1, 2 KJV)—a strange omission if baptism were necessary for salvation.

4. Paul thanked God that he baptized very few of the Corinthians (1 Cor. 1:14–16 KJV)—an impossible thanksgiving if baptism were essential for salvation.

5. Approximately 150 passages in the NT state that salvation is by faith alone. No verse or few verses could contradict this overwhelming testimony.

6. Baptism is connected with death and burial in the NT, not with spiritual birth. What then does verse 16 mean? I believe it mentions baptism as the expected outward expression of belief. Baptism is not a condition of salvation, but an outward proclamation that the person has been saved.

Grace and Peace

 

[Jack]

But notice something important in the verse:
Jesus doesn’t say, “He that isn’t baptized will be condemned.”
The only thing tied to condemnation is unbelief.

Exactly! And gpresdo preaches water baptism for salvation but won't even tell us how he was baptized! Maybe he was baptized wrong? Not saved?

 

[Jack]

My last with you...where is the answer to my question?...which you owe.

Maybe you were baptized wrong, not saved? Were you baptized in Jesus Name'?

 

[TrevorHL]

Greetings Jack,

Maybe you were baptized wrong, not saved? Were you baptized in Jesus Name'?

I am confused as to why you are insisting on this. What exactly are you trying to distinguish here? There is very much involved in a true baptism and the exact words used may have a number of different expressions.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Jack]

Greetings Jack,

I am confused as to why you are insisting on this. What exactly are you trying to distinguish here? There is very much involved in a true baptism and the exact words used may have a number of different expressions.

Kind regards
Trevor

Read the thread. It totally explains.

 

[TrevorHL]

Greetings again Jack,

Read the thread. It totally explains.

All 131 Posts? Perhaps you cannot give a brief summary.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Jack]

Greetings again Jack,

All 131 Posts? Perhaps you cannot give a brief summary.

Kind regards
Trevor

If you're interested you will take a little time to read them. Only a few minutes. It explains it all.

 

[TrevorHL]

Greetings again Jack,

It explains it all.

Possibly, but this shows that you do not have a simple, clear statement.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Jack]

Greetings again Jack,

Possibly, but this shows that you do not have a simple, clear statement.

Kind regards
Trevor

More likely that you're just a troll.

 

[TrevorHL]

Greetings again Jack,

More likely that you're just a troll.

I have participated in this thread with Posts 2,4,119. As such I receive alerts.

If you're interested you will take a little time to read them. Only a few minutes. It explains it all.

I have now spent 25 minutes having a quick browse. I had to forsake my computer and go to my old tablet as the advertisements lock up my computer.
You have posted with Posts 18,25,31,36,37,70,71,72,75,76,81,83,131,133,135.
In addition the following posts are asking the question: "In Jesus' Name?":
Posts 80,82,103,105,121,124,126,128,129.
I am now no closer to understanding why you ask this question.

So to repeat what I said earlier:

I am confused as to why you are insisting on this. What exactly are you trying to distinguish here? There is very much involved in a true baptism and the exact words used may have a number of different expressions.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Jack]

Greetings again Jack,

I have participated in this thread with Posts 2,4,119. As such I receive alerts.

I have now spent 25 minutes having a quick browse. I had to forsake my computer and go to my old tablet as the advertisements lock up my computer.
You have posted with Posts 18,25,31,36,37,70,71,72,75,76,81,83,131,133,135.
In addition the following posts are asking the question: "In Jesus' Name?":
Posts 80,82,103,105,121,124,126,128,129.
I am now no closer to understanding why you ask this question.

So to repeat what I said earlier:

Kind regards
Trevor

Why don't you tell us what YOU believe about water baptism being mandatory for salvation?

 

[TrevorHL]

Greetings again Jack,

Why don't you tell us what YOU believe about water baptism being mandatory for salvation?

Please refer to my three Posts, #2,4,119. In addition I consider that Luke specifically gives an example of the acceptable method and the true teaching on this subject:

Acts 8:5-6,12 (KJV): 5 Then Philip went down to the city of Samaria, and preached Christ unto them. 6 And the people with one accord gave heed unto those things which Philip spake, hearing and seeing the miracles which he did. 12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

Philip preached the Gospel of the Kingdom and Name, the Samaritans believed the Gospel and were motivated to identify with the death and resurrection of Jesus by baptism in water for the forgiveness of sins and salvation.

Kind regard
Trevor

 

[Jack]

Greetings again Jack,

Please refer to my three Posts, #2,4,119. In addition I consider that Luke specifically gives an example of the acceptable method and the true teaching on this subject:

Acts 8:5-6,12 (KJV): 5 Then Philip went down to the city of Samaria, and preached Christ unto them. 6 And the people with one accord gave heed unto those things which Philip spake, hearing and seeing the miracles which he did. 12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

Philip preached the Gospel of the Kingdom and Name, the Samaritans believed the Gospel and were motivated to identify with the death and resurrection of Jesus by baptism in water for the forgiveness of sins and salvation.

Kind regard
Trevor

And they were baptized in Jesus' Name. No other way.

 

[Davy]

Was Jesus referring to water baptism or spiritual baptism? I'm thinking it's the latter. What do you believe?

Mark 16:14-18
14 Afterward he appeared to the eleven themselves as they were reclining at table, and he rebuked them for their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they had not believed those who saw him after he had risen. 15 And he said to them, “Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: in my name they will cast out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18 they will pick up serpents with their hands; and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will recover.”

Notice Jesus said, "... but whoever does not believe will be condemned." He didn't say whoever does not get baptized will be condemned. So why did He command the believer to get baptized, and then not... show without water baptism also along with unbelief will cause condemnation?

The answer to that should be simple, if you recall the malefactor crucified with Jesus who believed on Him and His Kingdom. The malefactor admitted that he was a sinner, yet he believed on Lord Jesus, even while hanging on his cross. Did that malefactor have the opportunity to come down off his cross and get water baptized? No, of course not. So do you think Jesus still has the Power to save in that situation? I'd hate to have to answer Lord Jesus at His coming when He asks why we don't believe He has the Power to save without the ritual of water baptism.

Thus the way we are to think of it is this: Jesus Himself got baptized of water by John the Baptist. So Lord Jesus set the example of water baptism for us, and we have no excuse if we are able to get baptized. But someone who believes on Jesus on their deathbed, and isn't able to get water baptized, Jesus still has the Power to save. So it's not up to us. It's up to our Lord Jesus, it's HIS decision, not ours.

As for baptism by The Holy Spirit, that is a different matter, because The New Testament shows some received The Holy Spirit before they were baptized of water, and others that had only John's baptism hadn't received The Holy Spirit until they had heard about Christ's death and resurrection, and then they were immediately (by hearing The Gospel) baptized of The Spirit. It does not say they went and had water baptism again.

So I'd recommend the believer go get baptized of water, just to make sure.

Water baptism definitely marks you as belonging to Jesus Christ.

Even though I was raised in the Christian Church, I didn't get baptized until I turned 40. I always believed, but only once I got baptized at 40 did The Holy Spirit hit me and started opening up His Word in my understanding. Before my baptism, I don't know how many times I had tried to study and understand God's Word but it was like a foreign language to me, even when reading it in my natural language of birth (English).