No future hope for Israel in the Bible

[kdx]

I said "nation", not covenant being re-established. Boy, you are really reaching!

You said "physical nation". What does that even mean?

My whole point is (call it what you wish, physical or whatever), the nation state of Israel of today is no re-establishment of the nation state of Israel of old. This would only be the case if you re-establish the Old Covenant, on which that old nation state of Israel was founded.

That's all.

You see, Zionist-Israel is grounded on another covenant. It has other rules. And it hasn't been brought into being by the command of God, but by the mere desire of men.

 

[TribulationSigns]

@TribulationSigns

You always say that "they have so many things in common, just no covenant", but this covenant is the very thing that defined the nation state of Israel in the first place. No Old Covenant = no re-established nation state of Israel. If you want to re-establish the old nation state of Israel, you would have to re-establish the Old Covenant.

But, but, but… don’t waste your breath. You’re trying so hard to stuff words into my mouth it’s almost adorable.

There’s a nation on the map today called Israel — filled with people with Jewish ancestry, culture, language (Hebrew), heritage, identity, all of it. So tell me: how exactly did that nation appear without a covenant? Does it mean anything? No. It’s a nation like any other heathen nation, because it has no kingdom representative. Only the New Testament Church does.


And look, whether you like Israel of 1948 or can’t stand it, my point is simple: some people bend over backwards trying to cram modern Israel into end-times prophecy as if she’s still under some active covenant with God. Yet she’s the same Israel of old minus the Old Covenant. That’s the whole point. Relax.

But you? You’re acting like acknowledging the Israel in the Middle East today is some kind of heresy just because she wasn’t “re-established” by God with a covenant. Honestly, you’re funny.

 

[TribulationSigns]

You said "physical nation". What does that even mean?

Ask your middle school social studies teacher.

My whole point is (call it what you wish, physical or whatever), the nation state of Israel of today is no re-establishment of the nation state of Israel of old. This would only be the case if you re-establish the Old Covenant, on which that old nation state of Israel was founded.

That's all.

You see, Zionist-Israel is grounded on another covenant. It has other rules. And it hasn't been brought into being by the command of God, but by the mere desire of men.

I said... relax... you are still really reaching.

 

[kdx]

Yet she’s the same Israel of old minus the Old Covenant.

This statement is, biblically speaking, untenable. You're trying to deal with this fact as if it's a small detail (Israel has it all, just no covenant), whereas in the Bible God dealt with Israel only because it actually was his covenant-people. There is no nation state of Israel without God. You're trying to read modern secular phenomena back into the biblical text, instead of doing it the other way around.

Ask your middle school social studies teacher.

You tell me what a "physical nation" means. Is America a "physical nation"? Germany? Brazil? And what is the difference between that and a non-physical nation? You tell me, please.

I can assure you, none of my old teachers would know what that is. They could give me definitions of nations, but not of physical nations.

You’re acting like acknowledging the Israel in the Middle East today is some kind of heresy just because she wasn’t “re-established” by God with a covenant.

I never said such a thing. All I say is that modern Israel has nothing to do with the Israel of the Bible.

 

[TribulationSigns]

This statement is, biblically speaking, untenable. You're trying to deal with this fact as if it's a small detail (Israel has it all, just no covenant), whereas in the Bible God dealt with Israel only because it actually was his covenant-people. There is no nation state of Israel without God. You're trying to read modern secular phenomena back into the biblical text, instead of doing it the other way around.

Oh, I "read modern secular phenomena back into Biblical text?" Where did I say that exactly?! LOL.

You tell me what a "physical nation" means. Is America a "physical nation"? Germany? Brazil? And what is the difference between that and a non-physical nation? You tell me, please.

No. You figure it out. Why don't you answer your own question, "Is America is a physical nation?" Yes or no?

I can assure you, none of my old teachers would know what that is. They could give me definitions of nations, but not of physical nations.

LOL!!!!!

You do not know the definition of a "physical nation?" Wow.

A physical nation is a real, tangible, geopolitical nation. Not symbolic, not spiritual, not metaphorical. It refers to a nation that exists physically on the earth with:

• Land/territory
• Borders
• Government
• Population (citizens)
• Economy and infrastructure
• Recognized political status

In other words, a physical nation is the concrete, earthly, political entity you can point to on a map. It is a definitions of a nation, a physical nation! LOL!

I never said such a thing. All I say is that modern Israel has nothing to do with the Israel of the Bible.

Well, that is what I was trying to say all along. LOL.

 

[Chrysostomos]

But, but, but… don’t waste your breath. You’re trying so hard to stuff words into my mouth it’s almost adorable.

There’s a nation on the map today called Israel — filled with people with Jewish ancestry, culture, language (Hebrew), heritage, identity, all of it. So tell me: how exactly did that nation appear without a covenant? Does it mean anything? No. It’s a nation like any other heathen nation, because it has no kingdom representative. Only the New Testament Church does.


And look, whether you like Israel of 1948 or can’t stand it, my point is simple: some people bend over backwards trying to cram modern Israel into end-times prophecy as if she’s still under some active covenant with God. Yet she’s the same Israel of old minus the Old Covenant. That’s the whole point. Relax.

But you? You’re acting like acknowledging the Israel in the Middle East today is some kind of heresy just because she wasn’t “re-established” by God with a covenant. Honestly, you’re funny.

Do you really believe modern Israelis are direct descendants of those "lost" northern tribes scattered by Assyria 2,700 years ago?

Historically, the Northern Kingdom of Israel, comprising ten tribes, was conquered by Assyria around 722 BCE. The Assyrians deported much of Israel's population to regions like Assyria, Mesopotamia, and Media, as part of their policy of scattering conquered peoples (2 Kings 17:24). This led to...

www.christianityboard.com

 

[rwb]

This whole thing God took away, when he brought the Romans in the first century.

I'm compelled to ask, do you NOT believe all was taken away from the nation of Old through the advent of Christ? Christ declared they had been left desolate even before going to the cross.

Matthew 23:37-38 (KJV) O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

 

[Zao is life]

Hello,

I want to present the most strong and undeniable argument that makes it absolutely impossible for any prophecy to take place regarding “Israel” in the Bible. I know that there were many fine Christians in history who held such a doctrine, even today all those who are called dispensationalists. But now let me give you the argument. It is this:

Israel, as defined by the Bible (and this is the most important thing of all), doesn’t exist anymore.

Israel, the nation Israel we know about in the Old and New Testament, was created by God making a covenant with the people who came out of Egypt at Mount Sinai. This was the old covenant. This covenant doesn’t exist anymore, it is replaced by the new covenant. Therefore this Israel doesn’t exist anymore. Therefore, there are no prophecies left regarding this Israel.

Prove me wrong, if you can.

Kind regards and God bless.

The Old Covenant was made with the whole house of Israel - before it was divided into the House of Israel (the Northern Kingdom) and the House of Judah (the Southern Kingdom).

The New Covenant (promised by God through Jeremiah) was promised to, and made with the same nation (the House of Israel and the House of Judah - Jeremiah 31:31).

"Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah"

Paul states very clearly that only a remnant of that nation accepted the New Covenant (Romans 11:1-5).

If it were not for that remnant of the whole house of Israel (the house of Israel and the house of Judah) there would be no natural branches in the olive tree - and then IF GOD CHOSE (HYPOTHETICALLY SPEAKING) to make the New Covenant with an entirely new elect nation comprised only of Gentiles - then the Gentiles would be a new nation because of the new covenant - but that's not what God promised, nor what the prophets and apostles who authored the Bible, or what the New Testament / Covenant books tell us, is it?

Through His mother Christ, the Son of God, is the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Judah. The son of David. Son of Israel. Son of man. Son of God.

The covenant was made with a nation - and it was not a Gentile nation:

"Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people." (Jeremiah 31:31-33).

Not ALL Israel accepted the New Covenant, but for the sake of the elect remnant of Israel who are in Christ, God confirmed His election of the seed of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob:

Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:

"If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever."

Thus saith the LORD;

"If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off ALL the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD." (Jeremiah 31:35-37).

So not ALL the seed of Israel were / are broken off through unbelief (Romans 11:17). Paul says that those who were / are broken off, are not even true Israelites:

"For they are not ALL Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they ALL children (Romans 9:6-7).

The New Covenant was made with the house of Israel and the house of Judah who are true Israelites.

YOU (and me - all Gentiles) have received mercy BECAUSE OF the rejection of THE REST OF the house of Israel and the house of Judah - and we have been grafted into that Olive Tree - the nation that never ceased to exist - among its remnant of natural branches, to share with them in the root and fatness of that olive tree

- but in Christ (who is an Israelite according to the flesh) there is neither Jew nor Gentile.

All these facts ALSO show the whole accusation of "replacement theology" that is leveled by some Jewish believers and Dispensationalists against those who say that the church is Israel, to be gibberish - because there never has been a "new" house of Israel and house of Judah with whom the New Covenant has been made;

but the Old Covenant HAD a temple - in Jerusalem - but the New Covenant MAKES THE CITIZENS OF THE NATION - THE BELIEVING JEWS; AND ALL THE GENTILES JOINED TO THEIR COVENANT THROUGH FAITH IN CHRIST - THE TEMPLE, i.e THE CHURCH.

IN the New Covenant there is no difference between the temple (church) and the citizens of the nation - who are also all the priests of the New Covenant temple (church) - which shows the whole false "replacement theology" accusation up to be unbiblical gibberish.

But you're also talking absolute nonsense - and it betrays the fact that you believe neither God nor the scriptures:

I'm compelled to ask, do you NOT believe all was taken away from the nation of Old through the advent of Christ? Christ declared they had been left desolate even before going to the cross.

Matthew 23:37-38 (KJV) O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

Where Jesus told them that their house was left to them desolate, you corrupt His words by changing what He said to "THEY" (the people) had been left desolate - as though the New Covenant was made with Gentiles - even though scripture tells you that we Gentiles only get to share in the New Covenant with the believing remnant of the nation called Israel and the house of Israel and the house of Judah (by God) in Jeremiah 31:31-33 when He promised the new covenant to them.

 

[kdx]

Oh, I "read modern secular phenomena back into Biblical text?" Where did I say that exactly?! LOL.

You dont say it, you do it.

No. You figure it out. Why don't you answer your own question, "Is America is a physical nation?" Yes or no?

How can I answer my own question if I do not know the meaning of a "physical nation"? I can answer the question if America is a nation, yes it is. But the physical nation definition is still up to you.

Nation - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Can't find anything on "physical nation" there.

Do you really believe modern Israelis are direct descendants of those "lost" northern tribes scattered by Assyria 2,700 years ago?​

Historically, the Northern Kingdom of Israel, comprising ten tribes, was conquered by Assyria around 722 BCE. The Assyrians deported much of Israel's population to regions like Assyria, Mesopotamia, and Media, as part of their policy of scattering conquered peoples (2 Kings 17:24). This led to...

www.christianityboard.com

Maybe most modern Jews are of Khazar descent. It's an interesting topic.

I'm compelled to ask, do you NOT believe all was taken away from the nation of Old through the advent of Christ? Christ declared they had been left desolate even before going to the cross.

Yes but, the temple stood still, and the worship continued, until 70 AD. Even the apostles still kept the law in it's ordinances. Here an extract of John Owens commentary on the epistle to the Hebrews, where he explains it a little:

IV. He takes it for granted, in the whole Epistle, that the Judaical church-state did yet continue, and that the worship of it was not yet disallowed of God; suitably to what was before declared concerning his own and the other apostles’ practice. Had that church-state been utterly abolished, all observation of Mosaical rites, which were the worship of that church as such, had been utterly unlawful, as now it is. Neither did the determination recorded Acts 15 abolish them, as some suppose, but only free the Gentiles from their observance. Their free use was yet permitted unto the Jews, Acts 21:20, 22–26, 27:9; and practised by Paul in particular in his Nazaritical vow, chap. 21:26, which was attended with a sacrifice, Num. 6:13–21. Nor was Mosaical worship utterly to cease, so as to have no acceptance with God, until the final ruin of that church, foretold by our Saviour himself, Matt. 24, by Peter, 2 Epist. 3, by James also, chap. 5:6–9, and by our apostle in this Epistle, chap. 10:37, 12:25–27, was accomplished. Hence it is that our apostle calls the times of the gospel “The world to come,” Heb. 2:5, 6:5,—the name whereby the Jews denoted the state of the church under the Messiah,—proper unto it only whilst the legal administrations of worship did continue. Thus, as de facto he had showed respect unto the person of the high priest as one yet in lawful office, Acts 23:5, so doctrinally he takes it for granted that that office was still continued, Heb. 8:4, 5, with the whole worship of Moses’ institution, chap. 13:11, 12. And this dispensation of God’s patience, being the last trial of that church, was continued in a proportion of time answerable to their abode in the wilderness upon its first erection; which our apostle minds them of, chap. 3, 4. The law of Moses, then, was not actually abrogated by Christ, who observed the rules of it in the days of his flesh; nor by the apostles, who seldom used their liberty from it, leaving the use of it to the Jews still; but having done its work whereunto it was designed, and its obligation expiring, ending, and being removed or taken away, in the death and resurrection of Christ, and promulgation of the gospel that ensued thereupon, which doctrinally declared its ἀνωφελείαν, or uselessness, God in his providence put an end unto it as to its observation, in the utter and irrecoverable overthrow of the temple, the place designed for the solemn exercise of its worship. So did it “decay, wax old,” and “vanish away,” chap. 8:13. And this also God ordered, in his infinite wisdom, that their temple, city, and nation, and so, consequently, their whole church-state, should be utterly wasted by the pagan Romans, before the power of the empire came into the hands of men professing the name of Christ; who could neither well have suffered their temple to stand as by them abused, nor yet have destroyed it without hardening them in their impenitency and unbelief.

John Owen, An Exposition of the Epistle to the Hebrews, hg. von W. H. Goold, Bd. 18, Works of John Owen (Edinburgh: Johnstone and Hunter, 1854), 12.

 

[marks]

I don't go anywhere. I stay right here:

In God's New Will and Testament, all covenants and promises are fulfilled only in Christ, and in those who are in Christ.

The OT covenants and promises are the promissory clauses of God's Old Will and Testament, and they are both revoked and fulfilled in the promissory clauses of His New Will and Testament, written in the Blood of His Son Jesus Christ, the Divine Testator, coming into full force and effect upon His death.

If you have written your own Will and Testament, you will see that the very first clause states the following or its equivalent:

"I HEREBY REVOKE all former Wills and other testamentary dispositions by me at any time therefore made and declare this to be my Last Will and Testament."

This means that all former wills and testaments, and all of their promissory clauses in their entirety, are completely null and void. In their place, the promissory clauses of the current last new will and testament are the only ones in force and effect. Any promissory clause which appeared in the old will and testament, but does not appear in the new will and testament, is irrevocably null and void unless yet another new will and testament is made which re-includes it.

Thus we see:

Hebrews 9
15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

Hebrews 10
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

Hebrews 8
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

God`s New Will and Testament is everlasting:

Hebrews 13
20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant.

There is none greater.

We see other new promissory clauses of the New Will and Testament in:

Matthew 21:33-45
In this parable, the son, who is identified as the heir, typifies Christ.

Galatians 3:16
Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

2 Corinthians 1:20
For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.

Hebrews 1:1,2
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

In them, we see that the Heir and Beneficiary is Christ alone, that all of the promises are affirmed and confirmed in Him, and that He is Heir of all things. All includes the OT land promises, the restoration promises, the blessings promises, and all else. There are no exceptions.

God has appointed His Son alone as heir of all things. Unbelieving Israel is not an heir. Galatians 4:30-31.

His New Will and Testament contains even better promises:

Hebrews 8
6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

Such as:

Hebrews 11
16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

Additional promissory clauses in...:

Romans 8:16-17
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

Galatians 3:29
And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

...declare that those who are in Christ are heirs and joint heirs with Him.

But it is clear, plain, and undeniable:

There are no promissory clauses for anyone, Jew or Gentile...

Who is not in Christ under His New Covenant/Testament.

I see all these long, convoluted posts that attempt to make the case that we should not believe plainly stated Scriptures, both old and new testaments, but this really is a simple matter, and I'm going with, the sun rose today, therefore the people to whom God made the promise remain a nation before Him today. I

Much love!

 

[Jericho]

Israel, as defined by the Bible (and this is the most important thing of all), doesn’t exist anymore.

Israel, the nation Israel we know about in the Old and New Testament, was created by God making a covenant with the people who came out of Egypt at Mount Sinai. This was the old covenant. This covenant doesn’t exist anymore, it is replaced by the new covenant. Therefore this Israel doesn’t exist anymore. Therefore, there are no prophecies left regarding this Israel.

Prove me wrong, if you can.

There wasn't just one covenant in the Bible; there are at least seven "distinct" covenants. Some were conditional and temporal, and others were not. The covenant with Abraham was unconditional and everlasting (Gen 17:7-8). I don't know about you, but to me, everlasting means everlasting. It's true that the kingdom of Israel is no more, but there was also promised a restoration. You would have to completely disregard Romans 11, among other scriptures, to deny that.

Maybe most modern Jews are of Khazar descent. It's an interesting topic.

I have debunked that theory before.

 

[Chrysostomos]

Maybe most modern Jews are of Khazar descent. It's an interesting topic.

There’s a nation on the map today called Israel — filled with people with Jewish ancestry, culture, language (Hebrew), heritage, identity, all of it.

I understand that the thread "Do you really believe modern Israelis are direct descendants of those 'lost' northern tribes scattered by Assyria 2,700 years ago?" has stretched to 8 pages, and not everyone can manage even the first two or three.
So, I’ll copy here the final post that sums up all 7 pages of discussion.
Post #135

DNA proves MY point, not yours.
You say DNA supports your case? Wrong. Ashkenazi Jews have 50% European DNA and only 50% Levantine, tied to ancient Judah, not the 10 northern tribes lost to Assyria in 722 BCE.
2 million Soviet repatriants in Israel have Slavic DNA, barely any Levantine markers.

The northern tribes—Reuben, Gad, Naphtali—are gone, with no genetic markers in modern populations. Meanwhile, Palestinians carry 81–87% ancient Levantine DNA, closer to the biblical inhabitants than most Israelis. If DNA is your trump card, it’s a bust.

Cultural practices? Irrelevant.
You point to “cultural adherence” as evidence? That’s laughable.
You haven’t shown one shred of evidence linking them to the northern kingdom of Israel or even Judah in biblical times. Where’s the continuity?

Biblical prophecies? Weightless.
Your “scriptural evidence” is just 19th-century Dispensationalist fan fiction, courtesy of John Nelson Darby. You lean on verses like Amos 9:14–15, which I’ve already shown were fulfilled in 538 BCE when Judah returned from Babylon (Ezra, Nehemiah). No northern tribes are mentioned—zero. Your futuristic spin on Zechariah or Romans 11 is theology, not history, and it proves nothing about modern Israelis being descendants of the 10 lost tribes. Interpretations aren’t facts. They’re opinions, and yours don’t hold water.

 

[TribulationSigns]

You dont say it, you do it.

LOL. Weak accusation.

How can I answer my own question if I do not know the meaning of a "physical nation"? I can answer the question if America is a nation, yes it is. But the physical nation definition is still up to you.

Nation - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Can't find anything on "physical nation" there.

Boy you are really working hard to discredit me, aren't you?

Listen carefully:

The physical nation is a nation that exists as a country on a map with physical land, geopolitical border, territory, and government. It focuses on the geographical, political, and physical reality like modern state of Israel is.

The nation is a group of people that is set apart for a covenant purpose as marked by obedience and worship. For example, the "holy nation" of the Old Testament (Exodus 19:6) and the New Testament (1 Peter 2:9) is make up of Saints of faith in Jesus Christ started with the Old Covenant Israel to those redeemed out of every tribe and language under the New Covenant.

So when I talked about the modern state of Israel, I was talking about it as a physical nation. Get it?

 

[Zao is life]

Some statements / posts / threads are clearly made just to attack the Jews - and the total lack of respect for the Bible (the way it gets corrupted by the person who started this thread) and the words of God Himself (the way His words get corrupted by the person who started this thread), shows that as far as @kdx is concerned, the words of God and of scripture is fit only for being sacrificed on the altar of blind antisemitism, worthy only of being corrupted in order to be used as a base upon which to build anti-Jew falsehoods.

 

[Chrysostomos]

Some statements / posts / threads are clearly made just to attack the Jews - and the total lack of respect for the Bible (the way it gets corrupted by the person who started this thread) and the words of God Himself (the way His words get corrupted by the person who started this thread), shows that as far as @kdx is concerned, the words of God and of scripture is fit only for being sacrificed on the altar of blind antisemitism, worthy only of being corrupted in order to be used as a base upon which to build anti-Jew falsehoods.

So, nothing substantial left to say? Just resorting to labels and accusations of antisemitism?

 

[Chrysostomos]

There’s a nation on the map today called Israel — filled with people with Jewish ancestry, language (Hebrew),

Modern Hebrew was artificially revived in the 19th–20th centuries for political reasons by figures like Eliezer Ben-Yehuda. No one knows how biblical Hebrew sounded—its pronunciation, accents, and much of its vocabulary were lost. Before Israel’s founding, Jews spoke Yiddish, Ladino, or local languages, not this reconstructed Hebrew. The modern state language is a political invention, not a living link to the northern tribes’ tongue. It’s irrelevant to descent.

 

[Chrysostomos]

But, but, but… don’t waste your breath. You’re trying so hard to stuff words into my mouth it’s almost adorable.

There’s a nation on the map today called Israel — filled with people with Jewish ancestry, culture,

Modern Jewish culture—Ashkenazi, Sephardi, whatever—has zero connection to the northern kingdom of Israel. Even in biblical times, the northern tribes’ culture and religion were a mess, riddled with idolatry and rebellion, as the prophets like Hosea and Amos hammered home. They were nowhere near the pure Mosaic faith you imagine. Today’s Israeli culture, with its rabbinic traditions and secular vibe, is a modern construct, not a revival of some lost tribal legacy. Show me one cultural practice tied to the northern tribes. You can’t.

Here’s the issue: Israel’s founders in 1948 chose the name “Israel” over “Judea.” Why?
Israel (the Northern Kingdom) had zero God-pleasing kings—all 19, from Jeroboam I to Hoshea, were condemned for idolatry (1–2 Kings).

Judea, however, had 8 godly kings out of 20: Asa, Jehoshaphat, Joash, Azariah, Jotham, Hezekiah, Manasseh (after repentance), and Josiah (2 Kings 18–23).
By choosing “Israel,” the founders signaled a vision tied to a rebellious, idolatrous legacy, not Judea’s godly remnant.

The 10 northern tribes of Israel got fully assimilated and dissolved over the course of ~800 years after the Assyrian conquest.
And you’re telling me that in over 2,000 years since the fall of Judah, the descendants of Judah and Benjamin somehow didn’t mix at all?
Seriously?

 

[kdx]

There wasn't just one covenant in the Bible; there are at least seven "distinct" covenants.

Of course, descendants of Jacob/Israel were there before Moses, for a period of time, who then went into Egypt. But what the Mosaic Covenant did was to create out of those families a distinct nation. Israel was Gods nation and people, and because of that God gave them a land and laws that would govern their moral, civil and religious life, so that they could worship Him in an acceptable way. And the kings and prophets that came afterwards always reminded them of this covenant, dealt with them and rebuked them according to that covenant, and even prophesied that at one point in time (with Christ) this covenant would be no more (Jeremiah 31).

The covenant with Abraham was unconditional and everlasting (Gen 17:7-8).

That's not true, just read from the very beginning of Genesis 17, here it is:

"When Abram was ninety-nine years old the Lord appeared to Abram and said to him, “I am God Almighty; walk before me, and be blameless, that I may make my covenant between me and you, and may multiply you greatly.” Then Abram fell on his face. And God said to him, “Behold, my covenant is with you, and you shall be the father of a multitude of nations. No longer shall your name be called Abram, but your name shall be Abraham, for I have made you the father of a multitude of nations. I will make you exceedingly fruitful, and I will make you into nations, and kings shall come from you. And I will establish my covenant between me and you and your offspring after you throughout their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and to your offspring after you. And I will give to you and to your offspring after you the land of your sojournings, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession, and I will be their God." (Genesis 17, 1-8)

Furthermore, this covenant and it's promises belong only to those who belong to Christ. This is explicit in the New Testament:

Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, “And to offsprings,” referring to many, but referring to one, “And to your offspring,” who is Christ. (Gal 3,16.)

And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s offspring, heirs according to promise. (Gal 3,29.)

One offspring: Christ, to whom belong the promises. And therefore all who belong to Christ are the receivers of those promises. They are the heirs. These are Christians.

That's why the Jews boasted of being the children of Abraham. But the New Testament teaches that believers in Christ are the true children of Abraham:

Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham. (Gal 3,7.)

To us belong the promises of the Abrahamic covenant. Children of the flesh (mere physical descendants of Abraham) do not belong to God, have no part in God, are not the sons of God, are not the heirs of God:

This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring. (Rom 9,8)

And Romans 11 doesn't teach a future restoration of Israel. You can, if you wish, tell me where you think that it does.

 

[kdx]

I have debunked that theory before.

And that I have to read later when I find the time, thank you.

 

[Zao is life]

So, nothing substantial left to say? Just resorting to labels and accusations of antisemitism?

So, posting false accusations like the above - as though I had not already posted the following?

Never mind, keep showing up your personal deviousness with posts like the one above. It's very obvious by his mention of khazars etc that he's antisemitic - it's the same old false statements antisemites always use. I stand by what I said:

The Old Covenant was made with the whole house of Israel - before it was divided into the House of Israel (the Northern Kingdom) and the House of Judah (the Southern Kingdom).

The New Covenant (promised by God through Jeremiah) was promised to, and made with the same nation (the House of Israel and the House of Judah - Jeremiah 31:31).

"Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah"

Paul states very clearly that only a remnant of that nation accepted the New Covenant (Romans 11:1-5).

If it were not for that remnant of the whole house of Israel (the house of Israel and the house of Judah) there would be no natural branches in the olive tree - and then IF GOD CHOSE (HYPOTHETICALLY SPEAKING) to make the New Covenant with an entirely new elect nation comprised only of Gentiles - then the Gentiles would be a new nation because of the new covenant - but that's not what God promised, nor what the prophets and apostles who authored the Bible, or what the New Testament / Covenant books tell us, is it?

Through His mother Christ, the Son of God, is the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Judah. The son of David. Son of Israel. Son of man. Son of God.

The covenant was made with a nation - and it was not a Gentile nation:

"Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people." (Jeremiah 31:31-33).

Not ALL Israel accepted the New Covenant, but for the sake of the elect remnant of Israel who are in Christ, God confirmed His election of the seed of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob:

Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:

"If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever."

Thus saith the LORD;

"If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off ALL the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD." (Jeremiah 31:35-37).

So not ALL the seed of Israel were / are broken off through unbelief (Romans 11:17). Paul says that those who were / are broken off, are not even true Israelites:

"For they are not ALL Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they ALL children (Romans 9:6-7).

The New Covenant was made with the house of Israel and the house of Judah who are true Israelites.

YOU (and me - all Gentiles) have received mercy BECAUSE OF the rejection of THE REST OF the house of Israel and the house of Judah - and we have been grafted into that Olive Tree - the nation that never ceased to exist - among its remnant of natural branches, to share with them in the root and fatness of that olive tree

- but in Christ (who is an Israelite according to the flesh) there is neither Jew nor Gentile.

All these facts ALSO show the whole accusation of "replacement theology" that is leveled by some Jewish believers and Dispensationalists against those who say that the church is Israel, to be gibberish - because there never has been a "new" house of Israel and house of Judah with whom the New Covenant has been made;

but the Old Covenant HAD a temple - in Jerusalem - but the New Covenant MAKES THE CITIZENS OF THE NATION - THE BELIEVING JEWS; AND ALL THE GENTILES JOINED TO THEIR COVENANT THROUGH FAITH IN CHRIST - THE TEMPLE, i.e THE CHURCH.

IN the New Covenant there is no difference between the temple (church) and the citizens of the nation - who are also all the priests of the New Covenant temple (church) - which shows the whole false "replacement theology" accusation up to be unbiblical gibberish.

But you're also talking absolute nonsense - and it betrays the fact that you believe neither God nor the scriptures:

Where Jesus told them that their house was left to them desolate, you corrupt His words by changing what He said to "THEY" (the people) had been left desolate - as though the New Covenant was made with Gentiles - even though scripture tells you that we Gentiles only get to share in the New Covenant with the believing remnant of the nation called Israel and the house of Israel and the house of Judah (by God) in Jeremiah 31:31-33 when He promised the new covenant to them.

I'm compelled to ask, do you NOT believe all was taken away from the nation of Old through the advent of Christ? Christ declared they had been left desolate even before going to the cross.

Matthew 23:37-38 (KJV) O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.