Can One Be Christian and Not Believe In The Trinity?

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CTK

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I have to get it from amazon.it
Not coming up,,,either with the ISBN code or the title....
Could you link it? (on amazon.it)

It might not be avx.
Go onto Amazon and type the ISBN # in the search field. It pops up right away.

Can you try it again and let me know? No need for hyphens. Thanks so much.
 

CTK

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I have to get it from amazon.it
Not coming up,,,either with the ISBN code or the title....
Could you link it? (on amazon.it)

It might not be avx.
Would anyone be willing to try and enter the ISBN# into the Amazon site and see if they bring it up ? Thanks
 

CTK

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I have to get it from amazon.it
Not coming up,,,either with the ISBN code or the title....
Could you link it? (on amazon.it)

It might not be avx.
Amazon tells me you can access the book through Amazon.com or Amazon.it

Please let me know if you are able to access it . Thanks again.
 
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GodsGrace

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Amazon tells me you can access the book through Amazon.com or Amazon.it

Please let me know if you are able to access it . Thanks again.
OK
The first time I copied and pasted and it didn't come up.
This time I left out the hyphens as you suggested and it did !

I'm going to order it.
I don't care too much about eschatology but I like having the books that members have written.
I do like Daniel 7: One like THE SON OF MAN....coming on the clouds.

Thanks!

 
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CTK

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OK
The first time I copied and pasted and it didn't come up.
This time I left out the hyphens as you suggested and it did !

I'm going to order it.
I don't care too much about eschatology but I like having the books that members have written.
I do like Daniel 7: One like THE SON OF MAN....coming on the clouds.

Thanks!

Thank you very much but you will find that most of Daniel covers the period from 606 BC to the last week of the 70 weeks of years prophecy- after all, the Book of Daniel is not written to recount the history of 4 ancient kingdoms - it really is to reveal the coming of the Messiah (first century).

After the cross, Daniel will pick things back up to reveal those things would take place - this is ALL captured in Chapter 11 (from the cross to the end of times- obviously, not in details but certainly up to the arrival of the little horn).

If you, or anyone would like to receive the commentary on Revelation (when finished hopefully within 2 months), I will send it to you free of charge as well.

Revelation picks up (in great detail) after the cross - after Daniel. It is like the continuation of Daniel chapter 23 and onward. Truly amazing! That is why Revelation begins with a discussion of the 7 churches- His followers pick up after the cross and go out into the world preaching the Good News and this is shown first with the establishment of His 7 churches.

I have found there is absolutely no way anyone can interpret Revelation without first interpreting Daniel - Daniel was the most difficult (seriously difficult) thing I ever did. It took me 6 years to unpack and as I now try to complete Revelation, I am still learning more about what God has included in Daniel.

But Revelation should not take 6 years- again, because of Daniel. Another few months will / should be enough and the total time will be approximately 1 year.

Best wishes always.
 
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GodsGrace

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Thank you very much but you will find that most of Daniel covers the period from 606 BC to the last week of the 70 weeks of years prophecy- after all, the Book of Daniel is not written to recount the history of 4 ancient kingdoms - it really is to reveal the coming of the Messiah (first century).

After the cross, Daniel will pick things back up to reveal those things would take place - this is ALL captured in Chapter 11 (from the cross to the end of times- obviously, not in details but certainly up to the arrival of the little horn).

If you, or anyone would like to receive the commentary on Revelation (when finished hopefully within 2 months), I will send it to you free of charge as well.

Revelation picks up (in great detail) after the cross - after Daniel. It is like the continuation of Daniel chapter 23 and onward. Truly amazing! That is why Revelation begins with a discussion of the 7 churches- His followers pick up after the cross and go out into the world preaching the Good News and this is shown first with the establishment of His 7 churches.

I have found there is absolutely no way anyone can interpret Revelation without first interpreting Daniel - Daniel was the most difficult (seriously difficult) thing I ever did. It took me 6 years to unpack and as I now try to complete Revelation, I am still learning more about what God has included in Daniel.

But Revelation should not take 6 years- again, because of Daniel. Another few months will / should be enough and the total time will be approximately 1 year.

Best wishes always.
LOL
I've never studied Revelation either.
Basically because there are such differing views on it and it's difficult to accept any one view.
My knowledge is very limited indeed.

Am putting the order thru when at home and have made a note to tell you after I take a look at it.
Will also leave a review on Amazon.

Maybe I'll get interested in eschatology --- who knows.
 

GodsGrace

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Nothing but there is a difference between three in one and 3 Gods together as a group forming the Godhead.
The United States----one country but 50 separate states.
Just substitute the word GODHEAD with TRINITY.
You don't even have to do that....
it does basically mean the same.

The problem is in HOW we describe it.
 

GodsGrace

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The Persons are Yahweh and Yeshua and Holy Spirit. Questions on the nature and substances are best left til we get to heaven. For now knowing their structure as such that they can sit on thrones,
I can respect that.
It's not easy...but those that know DO explain it very well.
 

Grailhunter

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Just substitute the word GODHEAD with TRINITY.
You don't even have to do that....
it does basically mean the same.

The problem is in HOW we describe it.

Sticking with the scriptures will get as close as we can get. Yahweh begot a Son with Miriam. That Son is the Son of Yahweh and as His Son He is a God. His mission was to offer salvation to the world. To bring humanity together with Yahweh in a relationship. My Father's house has many mansions....To open the gates of Heaven to Mankind.

Why did Yeshua have to die? Rules of Heaven. Sacrifices have to be made for sin.
Yahweh had to sacrifice His Son because of His cruelty in the Old Testament. Yeshua the Son of God and the Son of man served as the perfect sacrifice for the sins of Mankind. When He passed on the cross the veil in the Temple was torn in two. Signifying that Yahweh and Man were no long separated. And the sins of Mankind came under His authority.
 

CTK

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LOL
I've never studied Revelation either.
Basically because there are such differing views on it and it's difficult to accept any one view.
My knowledge is very limited indeed.

Am putting the order thru when at home and have made a note to tell you after I take a look at it.
Will also leave a review on Amazon.

Maybe I'll get interested in eschatology --- who knows.
Oh, one more thing if you do not mind. Before you leave Tuscany, I would ask that you might make a quick stop over to the Vatican. Perhaps you would not mind buying a second copy of the commentary and drop it off directly to the Pope. Tell him Charlie sent you this copy and maybe he can sign your copy as well. hlo Both of us attended the same university at the same time back in the days. Of course I never knew him --- we kept those Engineer and Math majors all on the west side of the campus while all of my classes were on the east side - where the good guys were.

But even if I did know him then, I can assure you he would not be very happy to read my commentary on Daniel - he would probably have me burned at the stake. Best wishes, Charlie
 
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GodsGrace

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Oh, one more thing if you do not mind. Before you leave Tuscany, I would ask that you might make a quick stop over to the Vatican. Perhaps you would not mind buying a second copy of the commentary and drop it off directly to the Pope. Tell him Charlie sent you this copy and maybe he can sign your copy as well. hlo Both of us attended the same university at the same time back in the days. Of course I never knew him --- we kept those Engineer and Math majors all on the west side of the campus while all of my classes were on the east side - where the good guys were.

But even if I did know him then, I can assure you he would not be very happy to read my commentary on Daniel - he would probably have me burned at the stake. Best wishes, Charlie
I'll be sure to give him a copy the next time he comes over for dinner.
sml

Maybe I'll actually have to read the book???
WHY would he not like it?
I know Catholic theology pretty well - would be interesting to know why.
I might even agree with him on some doctrine!!
:eek:

Could you state it in 25 words or less?
 
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CTK

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I'll be sure to give him a copy the next time he comes over for dinner.
sml

Maybe I'll actually have to read the book???
WHY would he not like it?
I know Catholic theology pretty well - would be interesting to know why.
I might even agree with him on some doctrine!!
:eek:

Could you state it in 25 words or less?
No, you are now going to have to read the book… that’s your penalty.
 

Lambano

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So, no, I cannot think of the aspect you have in mind....
No, you caught it.

Though when I mentioned "reverence" with "awe", I had in mind the Hebrew word יִרְאָה ("yirah"), which unfortunately the LXX translators turned into the Greek "phobos". I like your answer because you added some other aspects that I had overlooked.
 
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Lambano

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So should these group have survived?
"'Should' they have survived"? Did the Ebionites represent what Jesus himself taught and lived?

My point was that our judgment of what followers of Jesus "always believed" comes from a sample of only one thread that became dominant and suppressed opposing views.
 

Lambano

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They share the same essence and the same will.
When Jesus prayed in the Garden He said NOT MY WILL BUT YOURS BE DONE.
The will of the divine in Jesus was exactly the same as the will of the Father.
A couple of points.

First of all, note that the term "God" has been changed from a person to an essence or a nature. The Nicene fathers used the Greek word "ousia", or "substance", hence the word "consubstantial" in the Creed. This subtle change in nomenclature is the root of many of the laymen's misunderstanding of the Trinity and the source of some of the sillier arguments and counter-arguments you see in internet forums. (Though the paradox/self-contradiction of being "FULLY human and FULLY divine" also adds to chaos.)

Second, the verse cited shows that Jesus DID have a will distinct from His Father's that had to be aligned. This is one of the best verses for showing the personhood distinction between the Father and the Son.
 
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Lambano

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You were asking about whether or not I understand how some might understand that there are 3 Gods.
Mainly because you (we) relate to two distinct persons as "God". How does that differ in any practical way from having two Gods?

But I prefer your way to erasing any distinction between Father and Son.
 

GodsGrace

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5 basic Christian tenets that every Christian must believe.

Christianity is NOT open to reinvention.


 

TrevorHL

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Greetings again GodsGrace,
5 basic Christian tenets that every Christian must believe.
1. The Bible is God's Word - Agree
2. God is Three in One - Disagree
3. Jesus is Fully God - Disagree
4. We are saved by faith - Agree
5. There is life after death - Agree.
Possibly I pass the test 3 out of 5. I also disagree with some aspects of his elaboration of each item.

Kind regards
Trevor
 
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