Playing with Fire: The Cost of Willful Sin

[bdavidc]

I'm not twisting anything. Do the homework before you tell me that.

Never mind, actually, I had my fill of vain accusations for the day.

This is exactly the same pattern you’ve used in other threads, and it needs to be called out plainly. You keep interrupting discussions by twisting the passage away from what God actually says. Hebrews 10 is not about temple rituals and it is not about “losing salvation over one sin.” That is a distraction you insert every time someone deals with a serious warning in Scripture. The text defines the sin in verse 29, and it is willful rejection of Christ Himself: trampling the Son of God, counting His blood as common, and insulting the Spirit of grace. Scripture is clear. The danger is rebellion against Christ after knowing the truth. Nothing in the passage points to your interpretation.

And yes, your pattern of showing up to derail threads with the same false interpretation needs to be addressed. Scripture warns that false teachers turn people away from the truth with arguments that sound spiritual but reject the meaning of the text ~2 Timothy 4:3-4. You continually do that with Hebrews. You replace God’s warning with your system, and you give people false assurance where God gives a sober call to fear. That is not contending for truth; that is opposing it.

The Bible says the one who belongs to God listens to His Word, not to theories that contradict it ~John 8:47. You are not “rightly dividing” when you remove the force of the warning and turn it into something the passage does not even mention. That is why these conversations keep coming back to the same point: the Word says what it says. Hebrews 10 warns against rejecting Christ after receiving the knowledge of the truth. Hebrews 10 calls that path destruction. Hebrews 10 says there is no sacrifice left for someone who tramples Christ. That is not optional, and it is not symbolic.

If you want to participate, stay with the text and stop twisting the meaning. This thread is about the warning God gave, and His Word is the authority, not your reinterpretation.

 

[marks]

If you want to participate, stay with the text and stop twisting the meaning. This thread is about the warning God gave, and His Word is the authority, not your reinterpretation.

Do the homework and get back to me.

Much love!

 

[marks]

That is why these conversations keep coming back to the same point: the Word says what it says.

That's my point. But it disagrees with your interpretation. You could research this, and gain from it, but you choose instead to throw it back on me with your vain words. So that tells me about you. You won't even do a simple word search, and prefer to bully me off your thread.

The danger is rebellion against Christ after knowing the truth.

And do you in fact equate "knowing the truth" with "being born again"? You've not answered that so far as I can tell. You act as though it is the same, but you've not come out to say that. Again, so far as I've seen.

Much love!

 

[ProDeo]

The willfull sin it speaks of is the return to unbeleif .

What is a willful sin anyway?

A definition would be helpful.

How can a born again willfully sin?

1Joh 3:9 No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God.

 

[amigo de christo]

What is a willful sin anyway?

A definition would be helpful.

How can a born again willfully sin?

1Joh 3:9 No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God.

Wanna hear another question . that will indeed answer this question you asked .
How often i have heard many cliam to be born again , ONLY it aint evident in their walk , in their fruit
Many have NOT THE SPIRIT .
They came to another jesus f riend . One that was okie dokey with whatever lust they desired to keep .
And i think we both know JESUS IS NOT MINSTIR of sin , nor deal maker with sin .
So many do indeed return to the wallowing in the mud .
For many love one god above all else , NAMELY the one in their mirror . KNOWN AS SELF .

 

[ProDeo]

Wanna hear another question . that will indeed answer this question you asked .
How often i have heard many cliam to be born again , ONLY it aint evident in their walk , in their fruit
Many have NOT THE SPIRIT .
They came to another jesus f riend . One that was okie dokey with whatever lust they desired to keep .
And i think we both know JESUS IS NOT MINSTIR of sin , nor deal maker with sin .
So many do indeed return to the wallowing in the mud .
For many love one god above all else , NAMELY the one in their mirror . KNOWN AS SELF .

1John 3:9 No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God.

It may go deeper than that, even for a born again, allow me to make a confession.

James 5:16 Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great power as it is working.

How can it be a born again living 1 john 3:9 started to watch porn so now and then, even together with his wife some 25-30 years ago. Instinctively I knew it was wrong but reasoned since I am happily married and never would commit adultery it was kind of okay. And yet every time after it felt wrong. It was until someone put Matt 5:27-28 under my nose.

Matt 5:27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’
Matt 5:28 But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

And I repented, no more porn, no more watching sex scenes in movies or other media.

Still, before I repented, instead of listening to my conscience I kept watching porn several times, the power of the sinful flesh (James 1:14:15), even as I considered myself as a born again.

How is that somehow not willfully (deliberate) sinning?

I wonder.

 

[amigo de christo]

1John 3:9 No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God.

It may go deeper than that, even for a born again, allow me to make a confession.

James 5:16 Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great power as it is working.

How can it be a born again living 1 john 3:9 started to watch porn so now and then, even together with his wife some 25-30 years ago. Instinctively I knew it was wrong but reasoned since I am happily married and never would commit adultery it was kind of okay. And yet every time after it felt wrong. It was until someone put Matt 5:27-28 under my nose.

Matt 5:27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’
Matt 5:28 But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

And I repented, no more porn, no more watching sex scenes in movies or other media.

Still, before I repented, instead of listening to my conscience I kept watching porn several times, the power of the sinful flesh (James 1:14:15), even as I considered myself as a born again.

How is that somehow not willfully (deliberate) sinning?

I wonder.

Do you realize that many watch porn and have no conviction.
That is a bad sign my friend . And that is why folks need to do as paul and others said to do .
Exhort one another daily , lest any does become hardened through the decietfulness of sin .
I see grown men and women in churches justifying sin as though its not sin . BAD SIGN right there .
And worse many leaders have no p roblem with it either .
When one is born of GOD believing in Christ a new heart is given .
And its why we have a biblical pattern we ought to have kept and not left off .
Exhorting daily WITH THE TRUTH . Reminding one another as DID the early church .
because sin can and will harden the heart .
Correction IS DIRE NECESSARY . Reminders of both the GOODNESS and SEVERITY of GOD , necessary .
From every warning to promise to every Word of the LORD , ITS necessary to be reminded of this .
For when any part of it be left off , compromised in any way , YOU can bet leaven gonna increase .

 

[Marvelloustime]

Wanna hear another question . that will indeed answer this question you asked .
How often i have heard many cliam to be born again , ONLY it aint evident in their walk , in their fruit
Many have NOT THE SPIRIT .
They came to another jesus f riend . One that was okie dokey with whatever lust they desired to keep .
And i think we both know JESUS IS NOT MINSTIR of sin , nor deal maker with sin .
So many do indeed return to the wallowing in the mud .
For many love one god above all else , NAMELY the one in their mirror . KNOWN AS SELF .

@amigo de christo

 

[Gottservant]

In response to the OP:

There is a weed on the Earth, that no-one wants to touch, for its fruit is continual poison and it is "I will believe in them, when they believe in me".

Refuse to share your oil! It is the only way!

 

[bdavidc]

In response to the OP:

There is a weed on the Earth, that no-one wants to touch, for its fruit is continual poison and it is "I will believe in them, when they believe in me".

Refuse to share your oil! It is the only way!

That is not what Hebrews is teaching.

God does not tell us to refuse to share anything He gives. The Lord says plainly, “Freely ye have received, freely give” ~Matthew 10:8. The parable of the ten virgins is not a command to refuse to give the truth. It is a warning to be ready when Christ returns because at the last minute, we cannot borrow preparedness. The oil is a personal relationship with Christ, not a refusal to aid those who need it.

Hebrews 10 is exhorting believers to stand firm in the faith and warn sinners of the peril of turning away from the gospel. It never tells us to hide away from people who need the truth. The desire of God’s heart is that sinners would repent and believe. “Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God” ~Romans 10:17.

No, “refuse to share your oil” is not the way. Obedience is the way. Holiness is the way. Clinging to Christ is the way. And we are commanded to shine the light of the gospel, not to hide it. Jesus said, “Let your light so shine before men” ~Matthew 5:16.

The danger in Hebrews 10 is not that we are giving too much of our oil. The danger is in turning from the truth, treating grace as if it is cheap, and shriveling back to destruction. That is the warning. And the call is simple. Stand firm in Christ. Hold fast to Him. And keep pointing others to the only One who saves.

 

[marks]

Still, before I repented, instead of listening to my conscience I kept watching porn several times, the power of the sinful flesh (James 1:14:15), even as I considered myself as a born again.

How is that somehow not willfully (deliberate) sinning?

I wonder.

Of course it's willful sin. Being a Christian, I believe there is no sin we cannot refuse to commit. But with that being said, we are works in progress.

This passage,

Hebrews 10:26 KJV
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

This is not about the born again. This is about the Jew who has been told the Gospel, and cannot now just return to the temple with a lamb. Their only option is Jesus.

"Received the knowledge of the truth" is not the same thing as "born again".

If this passage is intended to address born again children of God, then you and I, and everyone here, will be forever and permanently disqualified from salvation, and that's just not so.

Wilfull sins and inadvertant sins are a distinction made in the Law, God's covenant with Israel. Hebrews is written to the Jews who were in the midst of this change from the old covenant to the new covenant. There is tons we can learn from it, but we have to keep it in it's context.

Much love!

 

[mailmandan]

If you take this to mean you might lose your salvation for a wilfull sin, well, what sin is not wilfull? And having committed one wilfull sin, you are forever lost, is that what you believe?
"knows the truth" = "born again" in your interpretation of this passage?

Hebrews 10:26-27 KJV
26) For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27) But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Much love!

In Hebrews 10:26, to sin willfully carries the idea of deliberate intention that is habitual, which stems from rejecting Christ deliberately. This is continuous action, a matter of practice. Now we don't walk along our daily life and "accidentally" fall into a pit called sin. We exercise our will but, the use of the participle clearly shows willful, continuous action. The unrighteous practice sin (1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Galatians 5:19-21); not the righteous, who are born of God. (1 Corinthians 6:11; 1 John 3:9)

 

[Ronald Nolette]

But then comes a thunderclap of warning: “If we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment” (Hebrews 10:26–27). In other words, if we treat grace like a game, we’re playing with fire. God’s mercy is deep, but His holiness is real. You can’t trample on the blood of Jesus and expect peace in your soul. That’s not just rebellion, it’s spiritual suicide.

ou are taking this verse out of context! this is about the Hebrews who were on teh cusp of salvation. The whole book shows that it is written to those who may or may not have made a real profession of fatih.

When a person receives jesus as Savior- all their sins are forgiven! Not just past sins, but futre sins as well. The old sinful man is delcared dead by God and we are a new creture that will conform to the image of Jesus.

Sin is no longer an issue. That is not a license to sin1 We do not need a license to sin, we do that by our old man. We are notw in the process of being sanctified!

 

[bdavidc]

ou are taking this verse out of context! this is about the Hebrews who were on teh cusp of salvation. The whole book shows that it is written to those who may or may not have made a real profession of fatih.

When a person receives jesus as Savior- all their sins are forgiven! Not just past sins, but futre sins as well. The old sinful man is delcared dead by God and we are a new creture that will conform to the image of Jesus.

Sin is no longer an issue. That is not a license to sin1 We do not need a license to sin, we do that by our old man. We are notw in the process of being sanctified!

What you said is not what Scripture teaches. Not even close. The idea that “sin is no longer an issue” once someone is saved is the exact opposite of what the Word of God says. The Bible warns believers repeatedly about the danger of willful, continuing sin. “Let no one deceive you: he who practices righteousness is righteous… he who practices sin is of the devil” ~1 John 3:7–8. That is written to Christians.

Hebrews 10: 26–27 is not written to people “on the cusp” of salvation. It says “we” who have “received the knowledge of the truth.” The writer includes himself. It is a warning to professing believers who trample Christ’s blood by returning to willful sin. That does not erase salvation by grace. It exposes false conversion and willful rebellion.

Scripture never teaches that “sin is no longer an issue.” That is a lie. God commands believers to “put to death the deeds of the body” ~Romans 8: 13 and warns that those who walk in the flesh will die. Grace never excuses sin. Grace empowers obedience. The person who says sin doesn’t matter after salvation is not preaching the gospel. They are preaching rebellion.

A believer’s forgiveness is complete in Christ, but a believer’s life is not lawless. “Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? God forbid” ~Romans 6:1–2. The Bible does not give a free pass to sin. It gives a new heart that hates sin.

If someone teaches that sin “is no longer an issue” for Christians, they are contradicting the very Scriptures they claim to defend. This is why warnings exist. This is why Hebrews speaks so sharply. This is why Jesus said, “If you love Me, keep My commandments” ~John 14:15.

Grace saves us. Grace changes us. And grace never tells us sin doesn’t matter.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

What you said is not what Scripture teaches. Not even close. The idea that “sin is no longer an issue” once someone is saved is the exact opposite of what the Word of God says. The Bible warns believers repeatedly about the danger of willful, continuing sin. “Let no one deceive you: he who practices righteousness is righteous… he who practices sin is of the devil” ~1 John 3:7–8. That is written to Christians.

Hebrews 10: 26–27 is not written to people “on the cusp” of salvation. It says “we” who have “received the knowledge of the truth.” The writer includes himself. It is a warning to professing believers who trample Christ’s blood by returning to willful sin. That does not erase salvation by grace. It exposes false conversion and willful rebellion.

Scripture never teaches that “sin is no longer an issue.” That is a lie. God commands believers to “put to death the deeds of the body” ~Romans 8: 13 and warns that those who walk in the flesh will die. Grace never excuses sin. Grace empowers obedience. The person who says sin doesn’t matter after salvation is not preaching the gospel. They are preaching rebellion.

A believer’s forgiveness is complete in Christ, but a believer’s life is not lawless. “Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? God forbid” ~Romans 6:1–2. The Bible does not give a free pass to sin. It gives a new heart that hates sin.

If someone teaches that sin “is no longer an issue” for Christians, they are contradicting the very Scriptures they claim to defend. This is why warnings exist. This is why Hebrews speaks so sharply. This is why Jesus said, “If you love Me, keep My commandments” ~John 14:15.

Grace saves us. Grace changes us. And grace never tells us sin doesn’t matter.

Sin does not matter as afar as salvation is concerned.

Yes sin matters. the wages of sin is death. but once someone is saved- all of their sins have been frogiven- that includes future sins. this is not a license to sin, but a license to live righteously.

But make no mistakes. God has perfected forever, those who are being sanctified! Our sin s debt has been paid in full!

 

[marks]

In Hebrews 10:26, to sin willfully carries the idea of deliberate intention that is habitual, which stems from rejecting Christ deliberately. This is continuous action, a matter of practice. Now we don't walk along our daily life and "accidentally" fall into a pit called sin. We exercise our will but, the use of the participle clearly shows willful, continuous action. The unrighteous practice sin (1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Galatians 5:19-21); not the righteous, who are born of God. (1 Corinthians 6:11; 1 John 3:9)

I think "willful sin" relates to the Mosaic Covenant distinctions of "willful" and "unintentional" sin, and how they were each treated variously by the sacrificial system. Generally speaking, "Unintentional sins" were covered by the daily and yearly sacrifices, while "willful sins" required an individual sacrifice. Of course some sins (sins unto death) were not able to be covered by the sacrifices, and the guilty one had to die.

The writer of Hebrews is talking to the Hebrew people about the sacrificial system they all lived within.

If you commit one of these sins for which you would previously bring a sacrifice, well, now that you know about Jesus, you cannot just do that, as though Jesus' blood were no better than an animal's blood.

This passage isn't about Christians.

Much love!

 

[amigo de christo]

For all who play with this fire from heaven and workers of the healing the wound
PREPARE to be burned on the DAY of the LORD GOD ALL MIGHTY and the LAMB .
play with fire , reap the fiery destruction on the day of the LORD .
Just a friendly reminder . For he who sows to the winds of harlot
will reap the whirlwind of great and might destruction unto and upon themselves
on the DAY OF THE LORD . FOR S TRONG IS THE LORD GOD who will judge the harlot .
WHerefore heed not her ecumenical cry , her love call , her lips of unity
F or all who sip of that cup will reap only destruction unto themselves ON the DAY OF THE LORD .

 

[amigo de christo]

What you said is not what Scripture teaches. Not even close. The idea that “sin is no longer an issue” once someone is saved is the exact opposite of what the Word of God says. The Bible warns believers repeatedly about the danger of willful, continuing sin. “Let no one deceive you: he who practices righteousness is righteous… he who practices sin is of the devil” ~1 John 3:7–8. That is written to Christians.

Hebrews 10: 26–27 is not written to people “on the cusp” of salvation. It says “we” who have “received the knowledge of the truth.” The writer includes himself. It is a warning to professing believers who trample Christ’s blood by returning to willful sin. That does not erase salvation by grace. It exposes false conversion and willful rebellion.

Scripture never teaches that “sin is no longer an issue.” That is a lie. God commands believers to “put to death the deeds of the body” ~Romans 8: 13 and warns that those who walk in the flesh will die. Grace never excuses sin. Grace empowers obedience. The person who says sin doesn’t matter after salvation is not preaching the gospel. They are preaching rebellion.

A believer’s forgiveness is complete in Christ, but a believer’s life is not lawless. “Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? God forbid” ~Romans 6:1–2. The Bible does not give a free pass to sin. It gives a new heart that hates sin.

If someone teaches that sin “is no longer an issue” for Christians, they are contradicting the very Scriptures they claim to defend. This is why warnings exist. This is why Hebrews speaks so sharply. This is why Jesus said, “If you love Me, keep My commandments” ~John 14:15.

Grace saves us. Grace changes us. And grace never tells us sin doesn’t matter.

Grace does save us . Grace does change us , And grace never tells us sin does not matter .
IN fact this is what the grace of GOD does teach us
TO DENY all ungodliness and wordly lusts and be living righteously ,and godly in this world
hasteing unto the coming of the great KING and GLORIOUS GOD , THE CHRIST OF GOD ALL MI GHTY
upon whom we BELEIVED . TO the trenches one and to the trenches all .
We got A WHORE that has invaded almost every church known to man with her cup of fornicational
love and ecuminal int erfatih of anti christ . Expose hos , never sit with them and make deals .

 

[bdavidc]

Sin does not matter as afar as salvation is concerned.

Yes sin matters. the wages of sin is death. but once someone is saved- all of their sins have been frogiven- that includes future sins. this is not a license to sin, but a license to live righteously.

But make no mistakes. God has perfected forever, those who are being sanctified! Our sin s debt has been paid in full!

What you are now claiming directly conflicts with Scripture. You said sin “does not matter as far as salvation is concerned,” but the Bible says sin reveals the true condition of a person’s heart. “Whoever says ‘I know Him’ and does not keep His commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him” ~1 John 2:4. God does not separate salvation from obedience. The one who rejects obedience rejects truth.

You also said God has “perfected forever” those who are being sanctified, as if this means a believer can treat sin as harmless. Scripture applies that verse differently. God perfects His people through Christ, and that perfection produces a new walk. “We are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works” ~Ephesians 2:10. Salvation produces obedience. It never produces indifference. Using Christ’s completed work to minimize sin is not biblical faith. It is deception.

You said sin is paid for, so it cannot affect salvation. Scripture says sin reveals whether salvation ever took place. “They who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires” ~Galatians 5:24. A person who shrugs at sin is not crucifying the flesh. They are indulging it. The Bible does not call that assurance. It calls it evidence of spiritual death. “The mind set on the flesh is death” ~Romans 8:6.

You also said believers have a “license to live righteously,” but Scripture does not describe righteousness as a license. It describes it as a command. “Be holy, for I am holy” ~1 Peter 1:16. Holiness is not optional, secondary, or detached from salvation. It is the necessary result of salvation. A person who is not pursuing holiness is not walking in the salvation they claim.

Finally, you are ignoring the way Scripture ties love for Christ to obedience. Jesus said, “If you love Me, keep My commandments” ~John 14:15. When someone claims salvation while insisting that sin “does not matter,” they are denying the very evidence Jesus gave for genuine faith. Obedience does not save a person, but the absence of obedience exposes the absence of salvation.

Your statements do not reflect biblical grace. They reflect a false confidence that Scripture warns against. God saves completely, but He never teaches that sin becomes irrelevant. The believer’s forgiveness is real, but the believer’s fight against sin is also real. Anyone who dismisses that fight is not teaching the gospel of Christ. They are contradicting it.

 

[bdavidc]

Grace does save us . Grace does change us , And grace never tells us sin does not matter .
IN fact this is what the grace of GOD does teach us
TO DENY all ungodliness and wordly lusts and be living righteously ,and godly in this world
hasteing unto the coming of the great KING and GLORIOUS GOD , THE CHRIST OF GOD ALL MI GHTY
upon whom we BELEIVED . TO the trenches one and to the trenches all .
We got A WHORE that has invaded almost every church known to man with her cup of fornicational
love and ecuminal int erfatih of anti christ . Expose hos , never sit with them and make deals .

You’re not responding to anything I actually said. Nothing in your post addresses the point being discussed. I corrected a claim that “sin is no longer an issue” for the saved because Scripture says sin always matters. That was the topic. You shifted into things no one here mentioned.

Scripture warns about this kind of response. “He who answers a matter before he hears it, it is folly and shame unto him” ~Proverbs 18:13. You are speaking to issues that were never raised. I never defended ecumenical unity. I never excused sin. I never supported compromise. You are accusing me of things I did not say and were not part of this conversation.

If you want to contribute, stay with the Scripture being discussed. Hebrews 10 is the topic. Sin and grace are the topic. Nothing in my post defended error, and nothing in your reply addresses the actual subject. Please deal with what was written, not with things imagined.