Demographic collapse. Capitalism Dies of Childlessness

[Chrysostomos]

This (above) is likely the root cause of your erred perspective; and why it is actually you who is out of touch with reality--God's reality.

Yes, the Bible promises what could be considered socialist ideas. But the world we live in is not part of that promise--in fact, it's all wrong, as is the logic that we can just apply biblical principles and fix everything. That is not biblical truth at all! Your list above is all given as parables--yes, to be practiced--but they are not what fixes this world. They are for example only.

The Bible is the most radical anti-capitalist book in history:

- Every 50 years: total debt cancellation + land returned to families (Leviticus 25)
- Total ban on usury (Deuteronomy 23:19–20)
- “Whoever has two coats must share with him who has none” (Luke 3:11)
- “It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter heaven” (Mark 10:25)
- The first church lived as a commune: “All things were common, and there was not a needy person among them” (Acts 4:32–35)

These are not “just parables or examples.”
These are direct commands from God for this world.

Capitalism is the exact opposite: debt slavery, land speculation, and the worship of wealth.
Biblically, that’s serving Mammon, not God (Matthew 6:24).
In short: satanism in a nice suit.

That’s why the world looks like hell, not like the Kingdom of God.
And your excuse is “these rules aren’t for this world.”
Convenient way to keep everything exactly as it is.

To the contrary--by order of God the world is passing away and is to be completely dissolved.

To say “God ordered the world to pass away and be dissolved” as a justification for doing nothing about injustice, poverty, and collapsing families is a straight-up confession of open Satanism.

No illusions were left anyway, but you just removed the last shred of doubt.

Your father is the devil, and he was a murderer from the beginning (John 8:44).

Mask off.

Meanwhile socialism is not God's way here in this world--profit is. How did you miss such an elementary biblical principle (rhetorical)?

That is the purest American prosperity-gospel heresy:
turning Mammon into God and calling profit a “biblical principle.”

The Bible says the exact opposite, over and over:

- “Woe to them that join house to house, that lay field to field, till there be no place…” (Isaiah 5:8 KJV) — direct condemnation of real-estate monopolies and land speculation.
- “Woe unto him… that useth his neighbour’s service without wages, and giveth him not for his work” (Jeremiah 22:13 KJV) — exploitation of labour is a sin that cries to heaven.
- “He that oppresseth the poor to increase his riches… shall surely come to want” (Proverbs 22:16 KJV).
- “The profit of the earth is for all” (Ecclesiastes 5:9 KJV) — resources belong to the community, not to private hoarders.
- “If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, and one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?” (James 2:15–16 KJV) — faith without material help is dead.

Jesus never praised profit.
He praised the widow who gave her last two coins, overturned the tables of the bankers, and told the rich ruler to sell everything and give to the poor.

Your “profit is God’s way” is not Christianity.
It is the worship of the golden calf wearing a suit and tie.

I quoted Isaiah 5:8 for a reason: God literally pronounces WOE on the capitalist real-estate moguls of his day.
You simply ignored it and declared profit holy.

That’s not missing a verse.
That’s rejecting the entire prophetic tradition of social justice, mutual aid, and economic redistribution that runs from Moses to Jesus to the apostles.

In short: the Bible is the most anti-capitalist document in human history.
You turned it into a defence of the 1 %.
That’s the real heresy here.

You might need to start over--completely, with "the renewing of your mind."

You absolutely need to start over, completely, with “the renewing of your mind” (Romans 12:2).

 

[Lizbeth]

The Bible is the most radical anti-capitalist book in history:

- Every 50 years: total debt cancellation + land returned to families (Leviticus 25)
- Total ban on usury (Deuteronomy 23:19–20)
- “Whoever has two coats must share with him who has none” (Luke 3:11)
- “It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter heaven” (Mark 10:25)
- The first church lived as a commune: “All things were common, and there was not a needy person among them” (Acts 4:32–35)

These are not “just parables or examples.”
These are direct commands from God for this world.

Capitalism is the exact opposite: debt slavery, land speculation, and the worship of wealth.
Biblically, that’s serving Mammon, not God (Matthew 6:24).
In short: satanism in a nice suit.

That’s why the world looks like hell, not like the Kingdom of God.
And your excuse is “these rules aren’t for this world.”
Convenient way to keep everything exactly as it is.

To say “God ordered the world to pass away and be dissolved” as a justification for doing nothing about injustice, poverty, and collapsing families is a straight-up confession of open Satanism.

No illusions were left anyway, but you just removed the last shred of doubt.

Your father is the devil, and he was a murderer from the beginning (John 8:44).

Mask off.

That is the purest American prosperity-gospel heresy:
turning Mammon into God and calling profit a “biblical principle.”

The Bible says the exact opposite, over and over:

- “Woe to them that join house to house, that lay field to field, till there be no place…” (Isaiah 5:8 KJV) — direct condemnation of real-estate monopolies and land speculation.
- “Woe unto him… that useth his neighbour’s service without wages, and giveth him not for his work” (Jeremiah 22:13 KJV) — exploitation of labour is a sin that cries to heaven.
- “He that oppresseth the poor to increase his riches… shall surely come to want” (Proverbs 22:16 KJV).
- “The profit of the earth is for all” (Ecclesiastes 5:9 KJV) — resources belong to the community, not to private hoarders.
- “If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, and one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?” (James 2:15–16 KJV) — faith without material help is dead.

Jesus never praised profit.
He praised the widow who gave her last two coins, overturned the tables of the bankers, and told the rich ruler to sell everything and give to the poor.

Your “profit is God’s way” is not Christianity.
It is the worship of the golden calf wearing a suit and tie.

I quoted Isaiah 5:8 for a reason: God literally pronounces WOE on the capitalist real-estate moguls of his day.
You simply ignored it and declared profit holy.

That’s not missing a verse.
That’s rejecting the entire prophetic tradition of social justice, mutual aid, and economic redistribution that runs from Moses to Jesus to the apostles.

In short: the Bible is the most anti-capitalist document in human history.
You turned it into a defence of the 1 %.
That’s the real heresy here.

You absolutely need to start over, completely, with “the renewing of your mind” (Romans 12:2).

The early church did not live in a commune.......they willingly shared what they had so that nobody had any lack and neither did anybody have any surplus left over. Because of the Holy Spirit, moving mightily in them and among them, not because it was imposed upon them by laws........"great grace was upon them all".

 

[JohnDB]

Capitalism is the exact opposite: debt slavery, land speculation, and the worship of wealth.
Biblically, that’s serving Mammon, not God

Nope....
Consider Abraham....AKA: God's friend.

He created the spice trade route and became filthy rich because of it. He was also entitled as King of the Hebrews. The word "Hebrew" at that time meant literally "homeless and worthless bum". These were people purchased in the slave market and made to work for Abraham on his spice trade route. These slaves had been kicked out of their families for completely ignoring or not doing their assigned duties within their families. These slaves were not rich. They worked for food and clothing only while Abraham became exceedingly wealthy.

And Abraham (a capitalist) was God's Friend. He dealt in spices. It wasn't communal living. It wasn't a situation where everyone was equal.

And some of the slaves were turned out into the wilderness desert to die when they did not produce or caused strife. Hagar found out the hard way on this.

 

[Chrysostomos]

I mentioned war for the USSR because they have a unique style of waging it that involves "meat waves".....essentially men are moved forward on battle lines to become Cannon Fodder.

This has zero effect on births per woman but it DOES seriously affect that all the births 20 years previously have ended prematurely and no longer add to the population.

That's why....war shrinks populations in TWO ways.
One is that live births slow down. People wait for the war to end to have children.

Second way is that men die in war.

1. Soviet losses in Afghanistan: ≈14,500 dead over 10 years.
That’s 0.03 % of the male population of military age. Demographically: zero impact. Even if every single one had been a married 30-year-old father (they weren’t), it wouldn’t move TFR by a single tenth.

2. There were no “meat-wave assaults.”
It was classic guerrilla warfare: the mujahideen (“dukhi”) hit columns and outposts, then vanished into villages and mountains. Soviet forces mostly defended roads, cities, and conducted sweeps. There was nothing to “storm” in human waves; the enemy never stood and fought. “Meat waves” is a myth.

3. The real proof came after 1991:
- USSR collapses → capitalism arrives in Russia, Ukraine, Baltics, etc.
- Fertility crashes from 2.2–2.5 to 1.2–1.6 in just a few years.
- At the exact same time, North Korea loses its main sponsor (USSR), faces famine and sanctions, yet TFR stays at 2.0–2.2 and never drops below 1.9.

Same external shock (collapse of the socialist bloc):
- Where capitalism came → instant fertility collapse.
- Where socialism survived → fertility stayed above replacement.

The facts are stubborn.

 

[Chrysostomos]

The USA started out communist....
People love to forget that. The early Jamestown record of the first successful settlement is kinda bleak and unsettling.

They were scared of drinking water (Europe had no safe drinking water) ....and so they did successfully get the brewery set up and running. However the brewery ran short on grain regularly due to poor crops in the communal fields. (All the communal fields failed miserably with poor harvests).
The women discovered caches of dried peas that the Indigenous people had made and raided them to keep from starving.

Finally in the third year with barely 20% of the original population left alive....
They realized that communist lifestyles were not working whatsoever.
They appointed people to various plots of land to live or die by what they farmed. This added to the knowledge that they needed to plant seeds with small fish caught in nets....

They had a huge surplus harvest with private ownership of land. More than enough with multiples better harvests than communist living ever had produced.
So they invited the Indigenous people over for a three day feast. These Pilgrims (AKA Missionaries) went on hunting parties with the indians (sharing the fresh livers) and shot turkeys and venison. Today we are celebrating this three day feast next week on Thursday and call it Thanksgiving.

However, the failures of communism were never remembered and groups of people tried to set up utopian communities in various places that are kinda well known today as cesspool large cities. Including such places as Virginia, Pennsylvania, New Hampshire, New Jersey, and of course New York all each according to their particular Denominational beliefs with goals to prove their denominational beliefs were better than the other denominations.

EVERY LAST ONE OF THEM FAILED SPECTACULARLY and had to allow the entire settlement to include "Deists" (known better today as non-denominationalists but definitely God fearing Christians) into their communities. Plus the whole communal farm life was also a resounding failure just the same as Jamestown was with exact same results in ALL of these original Utopian societies. Philadelphia is the Latin term for "Brotherly love" and its city started out as a Utopian society of Quakers. Today it's an armpit city where it's not really safe to go out at night. Richmond Virginia was also known for the Baptists as a Utopian Society. (Same issues there)
Many more Utopian, Communist Christian communities were started and ALL failed miserably.

Is anyone today interested in teaching this repeated failed lifestyle ?
Nope.
But people are very interested in trying it again. As if it's going to work this time.

Jamestown wasn’t “communism”; it was a corporate plantation run by the Virginia Company of London. Colonists worked for absentee shareholders and had to ship everything back to England. Pure early capitalism. Switching to private plots in 1620 simply ended their indentured servitude to investors.

Plymouth’s “common store” lasted 3 years and ended because the London sponsors’ contract expired, not because of laziness.

Every 19th-century “utopian commune” you listed was a tiny voluntary religious sect, not socialism.

Real 20th-century test:
- USSR, DDR, Czechoslovakia, Hungary: 70 years of actual socialism → TFR 2.2–2.5
- Same countries after 1991 capitalism → TFR collapses to 1.2–1.6 overnight

Thanksgiving doesn’t celebrate “capitalism saved us.”
It celebrates the end of corporate debt-slavery.

You just proved my point. Thanks.

 

[Chrysostomos]

The “Pilgrims tried socialism and starved” story is a myth.

1. Plymouth wasn’t a commune.
It was a corporate venture funded by London merchants. For 7 years every colonist was legally required to put all produce into a common store owned by the investors, not by the community. That’s indentured servitude to absentee shareholders—early capitalism, not socialism.

2. William Bradford ended the common store in 1623 because the investors’ contract expired, not because of “laziness.” Once the debt was paid off, families kept what they grew. That’s ending corporate control, not “discovering capitalism.”

3. Bradford himself wrote the real reason: women hated being forced to work in communal fields instead of their homes, and young men refused to labour for strangers. It was a gender-role and contractual issue, not a proof that socialism fails.

4. Rush Limbaugh’s version conveniently skips the merchant sponsors, the 7-year debt contract, and Bradford’s actual words.

In short: Thanksgiving celebrates the end of corporate debt-slavery, not the triumph of capitalism over socialism.
You’ve been sold a 400-year-old libertarian fan-fiction.

 

[ScottA]

You didn’t say a single word on the actual topic.
Everything you wrote is pure off-topic noise and personal attacks.
And yes, that is the truth. It’s all here on record.

But I’ll give you one chance to prove me wrong and finally talk about the subject instead of about me.

Answer, honestly:

- Are you married?
- Has your wife ever given birth?
- How much did the entire process cost you out-of-pocket (prenatal visits, ultrasounds, blood tests, delivery, hospital stay)?
- Does the United States have paid maternity leave? If yes, how many paid years did your wife get while keeping 100 % of her salary and her job guaranteed?
- How much is daycare per month where you live, and how long is the waiting list?
- How much does it cost to put a child in swimming lessons, dance, chess club, or any normal after-school activity?
- How much is a one-month summer camp?

Give me the real numbers from your own life.
No theories, no slogans.

Then we’ll see who’s actually living in reality and who’s hiding behind “bUt SoCiAliSm!!” when asked to face the price tag of raising the next generation under the system you keep defending.

This (above) reveals you completely: Your focus is totally worldly, and mammon.

Contrary to all that, I gave you the real reason things are the way they are, how you are wrong, and how God's plan for this world is completely opposite of what you advocate. It's anti-God.

And that is enough. I will not entertain you now squirming as you face God and His reality. Blaming me or anyone else changes nothing. And yes, "it's all here on record."

 

[Chrysostomos]

Do the Socialist Nations want Population growth ? No ! they clearly want to reduce the world population in fact ! and the Fat cats are in bed with them ! to them ends and it has been said 80% of the worlds Population has to go ! or else mother earth can not sustaine such ! and we all die ?
Such Satanist have been clearly full on in the working of hell bent on creating Gays etc Abortion on demand etc, so as to help reduce such in their Plans. setting women up as well, they reject women in fact ! for they give no worthy regards to what such is in fact ! how clearly Satanic ! so some man can play the woman ? Haha ! what total jerks ! but they get away with such outright Lies in fact ! clearly do to the Media being a down right Whore !

1. Your “socialism” in the West = cultural Marxism, rainbow flags, abortion-on-demand, drag-queen story hour, and “depopulation” conspiracies.
That version was literally invented in American and Western-European universities after 1968.

2. Real socialism/communism (USSR, China, North Korea, Cuba, Vietnam, and even today’s Russian Communist Party – КПРФ, second-largest party in the Duma) =
- abortion banned or heavily restricted for decades,
- medals and free apartments for mothers of 3+ children,
- “gay propaganda” illegal,
- official policy: “the more children, the stronger the nation”.

Russian communists today would laugh in your face if you told them socialism means pride parades.
For them (and for every actually-existing socialist state in history) “LGBTQ+ rights” are a decadent Western bourgeois invention designed to weaken families and birth rates.

So yes: the moment Western corporations and NGOs glued abortion + gay flags onto the red flag, they weren’t “revealing true socialism”.
They were deliberately poisoning the brand to make sure nobody ever tries the real version again.

You didn’t get infiltrated by socialists.
You got colonised by corporate marketing departments pretending to be socialists.
And you fell for it.

 

[ScottA]

I did read it.
That’s exactly how I know it’s 100 % fantasy and 0 % on-topic.

Then you have a problem with comprehension.

 

[ScottA]

The Bible is the most radical anti-capitalist book in history:

- Every 50 years: total debt cancellation + land returned to families (Leviticus 25)
- Total ban on usury (Deuteronomy 23:19–20)
- “Whoever has two coats must share with him who has none” (Luke 3:11)
- “It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter heaven” (Mark 10:25)
- The first church lived as a commune: “All things were common, and there was not a needy person among them” (Acts 4:32–35)

These are not “just parables or examples.”
These are direct commands from God for this world.

Capitalism is the exact opposite: debt slavery, land speculation, and the worship of wealth.
Biblically, that’s serving Mammon, not God (Matthew 6:24).
In short: satanism in a nice suit.

That’s why the world looks like hell, not like the Kingdom of God.
And your excuse is “these rules aren’t for this world.”
Convenient way to keep everything exactly as it is.

To say “God ordered the world to pass away and be dissolved” as a justification for doing nothing about injustice, poverty, and collapsing families is a straight-up confession of open Satanism.

No illusions were left anyway, but you just removed the last shred of doubt.

Your father is the devil, and he was a murderer from the beginning (John 8:44).

Mask off.

That is the purest American prosperity-gospel heresy:
turning Mammon into God and calling profit a “biblical principle.”

The Bible says the exact opposite, over and over:

- “Woe to them that join house to house, that lay field to field, till there be no place…” (Isaiah 5:8 KJV) — direct condemnation of real-estate monopolies and land speculation.
- “Woe unto him… that useth his neighbour’s service without wages, and giveth him not for his work” (Jeremiah 22:13 KJV) — exploitation of labour is a sin that cries to heaven.
- “He that oppresseth the poor to increase his riches… shall surely come to want” (Proverbs 22:16 KJV).
- “The profit of the earth is for all” (Ecclesiastes 5:9 KJV) — resources belong to the community, not to private hoarders.
- “If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, and one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?” (James 2:15–16 KJV) — faith without material help is dead.

Jesus never praised profit.
He praised the widow who gave her last two coins, overturned the tables of the bankers, and told the rich ruler to sell everything and give to the poor.

Your “profit is God’s way” is not Christianity.
It is the worship of the golden calf wearing a suit and tie.

I quoted Isaiah 5:8 for a reason: God literally pronounces WOE on the capitalist real-estate moguls of his day.
You simply ignored it and declared profit holy.

That’s not missing a verse.
That’s rejecting the entire prophetic tradition of social justice, mutual aid, and economic redistribution that runs from Moses to Jesus to the apostles.

In short: the Bible is the most anti-capitalist document in human history.
You turned it into a defence of the 1 %.
That’s the real heresy here.

You absolutely need to start over, completely, with “the renewing of your mind” (Romans 12:2).

Squirm, squirm.

 

[Chrysostomos]

A Wog means that such is a foreign body in fact ! and nothing more ! as in it's not a issue of anything but the fact their of.

My mum is a Wog ! big deal, it's a fact get over it.

Bring in the wrong Wogs is the issue tho and too many of such is totaly retarded ! that only a total moron would force on a Nation, but typical intent of Socialist wanting to cause only troubles in fact ! because such a Government is only trying to sharft it's own People in fact !


I remember the biggest Boom in Australias history where I had no work, because Asians came and undermined my Buisness ! not that it was the Asians who were the issue but that of greed driven Aussies who only wanted to use the Asians for their own greed driven spastic ends in fact !
So the Aussie Builders demanded Asians come to help them and the Builders made huge money !
So I am talking to a Builder mate and he says, why don't you go and buy some houses ? like him 3 then 6 and working to 12 so as to rent ? I turnaround and say that I did not make anything out of the Boom at all ! He demands that's BS ! angery as hell at me for saying so ! I was still doing things for free all the way through the boom. my brothers and Dad as well in the same trade. so baby bro got out and went work for the Government and he said that it was so easy and that he did not have to work like a Slave anymore He was laughing at us for being just like niggro Slaves in the System ! I knew we were just that for years but not big bro or dad, they thought that they were big men ! movers that the world revolves around !
I remember back in 1981 in the Pub I said to my dad, see that bum who works on the Councel as a idiot nobody fool, he earns more money than you do ! or he is better off that you are in reality ! but he does not know it ? and he will be far better off when he retires that you ever will be. As I was totaly correct ! Them people did not have to work hard and had everything to back them up ! they got payed regardless ! no money problems at all, the life of Riley !
But my dad worked 7 days a week and like a man possessed flat out going for it, holidays hell no ! but he got kicked in the Guts due to Socialist Governments boom bust system that bankrupts such intentionaly ! and the top of Town percentage of right wing Devils they were and are in on it as well.

I remember the days of young people building a House, that they did not buy like young do nowadays at all, for they built a garage to live in and then a small house 1 bath and in time added to that more rooms, no A/C, no 2 cars ! if that ! drove some old bomb that would never pass too being on the road nowadays. next door had 7 kids, the next young dude had 3 kids and said he had to move out due to being too cramped for them.
Nowadays young demand everything 2 bathrooms A/C etc etc ! The Young start out working for good money nowadays, not so in times past that's for sure. when you truly work out the values. They are doing well. but to get into the housing market that has been created by the Socialist and greed Co dogs is the issue !

At the end of the day Socialism is a Cancer !

But what is the answer, well education is ! and if one abided in Christ Jesus all will become free of Tyrants etc.
Socialism is a mans works in fact ! because such is delusional and Idolised by fools in fact.

The young bloke who bought nextdoor he has done real well for himself, he came from Ireland ! he has 2 house 3 kids and rents nextdoor out now for 5 years.
I was talking to him of late and said how well he has done for himself, he totaly agreed and said if he had turned up now, he would of never got into the market ! I think he is only 30yo.

You come across hatefull people all the time in the Building game, I remember when I was 7yo working for my dad and them old buggers were not nice at all to anyone especially to young people ! it was the norm that one had to put up with, but for sure such old workers were in pain. back in the 70's etc medication was not as it is now. most were all dead before 65yo or at 66yo that I knew back them days.
I was called Boy till I was say 40yo. Haha.

I can understand why people have a hatred of Capitialism and I would be a Socialist for sure if I did not know any better ! for It's truly like a Vampier that bleeds everyone dry. but their are such Vampires in the Capitalist system as well for sure. but Capitalism is not the issue, it's the Vampires !

Quick recap of your whole post:

1. “In my day we started with a garage and added rooms later, today’s kids want everything at once.”
Translation: Gen Z refuses to work 80 hours a week for peanuts and raise children in a shed. How dare they.

2. “Asians took my jobs, but it’s the socialists’ fault.”

3. “Capitalism bleeds you dry, but socialism is worse.”
Translation: literally everything and everyone sucks.

So here’s the picture you painted:
- Gen Z is bad for refusing slave wages and poverty births.
- Migrants are bad for doing the jobs locals won’t do and paying into the welfare system you still use.
- Socialists are the devil, but the capitalists who created sky-high housing and turned life into a hamster wheel are somehow the lesser evil.

Bottom line: everything is bad, no solution offered.

So tell me straight:
What is your actual fix?
Anything concrete at all?

 

[GodsGrace]

Let’s recap what you have called me in this single thread:

- Muslim
- Jihadist
- Hateful atheist
- Fake
- Troll
- “Part of the problem”
- General cause of all Europe’s upheavals

You’ve smeared every migrant on the continent as “the problem,” including the Ukrainian nurses keeping your elderly alive as “the problem.”

And now you accuse me of sounding like a “hateful atheist”?

Look in the mirror.
The log in your own eye is the size of a telephone pole.

Just to let you know that I DID read the above replies.
Members are not responding to you because YOU do not respond to THEM.
You're not paying attention to what the replies are.
You're a mad person, lashing out at everyone.

And I did not label you what you have listed.
You might not comprehend English well.
I said you SOUND like an atheist.
I never called you PART OF THE PROBLEM.
And I never said you're part of Europe's upheaval.

I SAID that it sounds like you entered legally - so no problem.

And, just to clarify for those reading along...
I SAID IMMIGRATION IS A BIG PROBLEM and I explained why.

I NEVER stated that EVERY migrant is a problem.

And I NEVER said anything about any Ukrainian nurses.

And I will not be responding to your posts...
just wanted to clarify the above for the readers who might have missed my posts to you
and YOU are smearing ME with comments I NEVER made.

 

[Chrysostomos]

Ok, you are not listening to what people are saying.

The job you were begged to fill went unfilled for over 60 days. Why did you fill this job for the extremely low wages?

Why has the whole world chased after industrialization and modernization?

If you were to get married and had children, would you send them to school? WHY?
Isn't the reasons you did these things the same as the original sin of "wanting/expecting more"?

This may not be the world you want but it's the world you have to live in.

You can whine like a borrowed mule or you can choose to make the best of the situation you find yourself in.

I never agreed to work for low wages. I was paid exactly the same rate as local German specialists. The difference is that I accepted overtime work that native Europeans refused. That’s why I worked more than they did and earned more than they did. For locals it’s easy to say no — they’re at home, they have permanent residence, and if they get fired they’ll find another job tomorrow. For me every 2-3 years the visa can simply not be renewed, so I have much less certainty about tomorrow. That’s why I push harder and save more for a rainy day.

And your “original sin” argument is the classic American Calvinist trick: you take a real material crisis (children have become unaffordable) and turn it into the victim’s personal moral defect — “you wanted more than God intended, sinner.”
It’s exactly the same as saying “she was asking for it because she wore a short skirt.”

No.
Wanting a decent wage, education, and children who don’t die at age five is not original sin.

So stop blaming people for “original sin” just because they refuse to raise families in poverty.
The real sin belongs to the system that made a family the most expensive luxury on earth.
And that sin is not ours.

 

[amigo de christo]

Translation:
“I have no answer, so I’ll just declare victory and tell you to take your meds.”

Classic.

Whenever the facts get too uncomfortable, the conversation suddenly becomes “over” and the other person is crazy.

I’ve seen that move a thousand times.
It’s the sound of someone slamming the door because the mirror got too clear.

When the next hospital shift is covered by a Ukrainian nurse,
when the next construction crane is run by a Ukrainian crew,
when the next truck delivering your supermarket food is driven by a Ukrainian driver...
...when the next pension check lands in your account thanks to taxes paid by people with “foreign” names,
remember who actually kept the lights on while you were busy blaming the thermometer instead of the fever.
By the way:
the entire elderly-care industry in Western Europe (Germany, Italy, Austria, etc.) now runs almost entirely on Ukrainian women.
Why? Because they come with real medical training: at minimum registered nurses, often full doctors, who end up wiping asses in nursing homes for €12–15 an hour because your system priced your own daughters out of having families in the first place.
And you still have the nerve to call them the problem?
Yeah, conversation over.
Reality will keep talking even after you stop listening.

You’re wrong.

In Ukraine there are literally dozens of recruitment agencies whose entire business is to convince Ukrainians (by every possible means) to come work in the EU, including Italy.
My own sister, a fully qualified nurse, a few years ago had to choose between Italy (where we have relatives) and Germany (where they offered higher pay and better conditions).
She chose Germany.

Today any certified Ukrainian nurse isn’t just “welcomed” in Italy; they’re practically begged to come.
Nursing homes, hospitals, and agencies are on their knees offering contracts, housing, and bonuses because the local workforce simply doesn’t exist in sufficient numbers anymore.

So when you say “migrants are the problem and nobody wants them here,” you have no idea what you’re talking about.

The real ostrich with its head in the sand is the one pretending Italy isn’t actively hunting for people like us to keep the country running.

Sadly the reason they beg for ukrainians
IS because these western socities have no idea how to work , they only whine and complain and sit on their phones
for hours . Plus , the birth rate . Look around . How can one person plus another person who bring at most
one child into the world be even sustaining population . ITs dropping . They do not give a rip .
These people , these elites , THEY WANT a very small population .
One they can control and just enough folks to praise them as the gods they THINK they are .
Would you like to know
the one solid , the only real reason this w hole world grows in confusion and chaos .
Shunning the one true biblical GOD and CHRIST , and worse when sold out churches do it
AINT BRINGING a blessing but ONLY A CURSE .
And allow the one trick pony one more word , Ecumenial interfaith IS OF ANTI CHRIST .
but just in case many are WORLDY centered , just let me say IT CAME OF THE MOST PROGRESSIVE liberal
minds to ever sit the throne. WE BEEN DUPED .

 

[Chrysostomos]

The job you were begged to fill went unfilled for over 60 days. Why did you fill this job for the extremely low wages?

I’ve been thinking about it, and maybe what you’re really asking is this:

“Perhaps you’re wondering why I even agree to work for the market wage at all, when that wage is so low that you can’t afford five children?”

If that’s what you mean, then tell me: what’s the alternative?
Refuse and starve to death?

 

[amigo de christo]

The early church did not live in a commune.......they willingly shared what they had so that nobody had any lack and neither did anybody have any surplus left over. Because of the Holy Spirit, moving mightily in them and among them, not because it was imposed upon them by laws........"great grace was upon them all".

The problem with man and any system he do try and bring .
The problem with man and any solution he do try and bring . IS MAN .
WHEN o when is this generation going to learn
MAN cannot be trusted .
Our hopes and trusts SHOULD NOT BE IN MEN and in govts
BUT ONL Y IN GOD , ONLY IN CHRIST . Not a man one , govt one
can destroy my kingdom .
Not a man one or govt one , or its kingdoms will last .
We got a c hoice to make .
C hoose ye this day to hope in men and govts , in politics and in solutions of men
OR SIM PLY HOPE IN GOD , trust in GOD . this sheep done made its choice a long time ago .
The problem with the world IS MAN
thus no matter how well his plan , how well his solution sounds
ALWAYS REMEMBER it will be MEN who live by it and enforce it . And man j ust cannot be trusted .
ALWAYS there are temptations and within the heart of man lies much wickedness .
THANKFULLY , for the sheep OUR GOD , OUR CHRIST , HIS KINGDOM
WELL it is not s ubject to failure or fault . ITS PERFECT .
TIME WE T RUST IN HIM . TIME we put our affections above . FOR WE HAVE no home here
we have no continuing city , but we sure DO LOOK for one to come . ON HIS DAY .
Till then , OUR FOCUS should be THE HEAVENLY , the gospel , the winning of souls .
cause in the end ONLY ONE THING ever mattered . It was not about what politicain was in con trol
It was not about how much money i had
it was not about my best life now .
IN THE END and oN THE DAY of the LORD
none of that will have mattered . What will have mattered is
DO YOU HEAR , WELL DONE
or do you hear I NEVER KNEW YOU .
Too many are f ar too focused on the earthen , on the here and now
Might i suggest the total opposite . HEAVENLY and ETERNITY . where one spend e ternity
might not matter to many n ow , BUT IT DARN SURE WILL on the day OF THE LORD . that much I DO KNOW . it darn sure
will on the DAY OF THE LORD . only on that day , ITS TOO LATE .
either you was a sheep , or you was a goat .

 

[Mink57]

Quick recap of your whole post:

1. “In my day we started with a garage and added rooms later, today’s kids want everything at once.”
Translation: Gen Z refuses to work 80 hours a week for peanuts and raise children in a shed. How dare they.

No, translation: Gen Z wants everything handed to them without actually earning it. They think that earning a degree in Horticulture somehow entitles them to an 85K a year job in one of the STEM fields.

2. “Asians took my jobs, but it’s the socialists’ fault.”

Asian, Hispanic, Black, White, male, female....doesn't matter. Whoever has the best qualifications gets the job!

3. “Capitalism bleeds you dry, but socialism is worse.”
Translation: literally everything and everyone sucks.

Not even close to what Reggie said.

So here’s the picture you painted:
- Gen Z is bad for refusing slave wages and poverty births.

Slave wages? Poverty births? Both of my daughters are on the outskirts of Gen Z. My youngest (now mid 30's) has 3 kids...and a darn fine job, in a field she loves. She WORKED for her position for over 10 years. She now makes close to 6 digits.

So why should a Gen Z person come in, IF they have a college degree, and expect the same wages as my daughter, even though they have NO experience?

Oh, and...my daughter didn't have her first child while making 85K+ per year. She had her when she was unemployed. And her first job after that was making about $15 per hour. She worked her way UP. Let me repeat that...she WORKED her way up!

- Migrants are bad for doing the jobs locals won’t do and paying into the welfare system you still use.
- Socialists are the devil, but the capitalists who created sky-high housing and turned life into a hamster wheel are somehow the lesser evil.

Uh huh....eye roll....

Bottom line: everything is bad, no solution offered.

You mean...*ahem* kind of like what YOU'RE saying?

So tell me straight:
What is your actual fix?
Anything concrete at all?

And just what is YOUR 'fix'?

Do you REALLY think that if all of what you've posted happens, that people will WANT to start having kids enough in order to replenish the diminishing population?

Did it ever occur to you that things are going AS UNDERSTOOD by God? That God didn't know that this 'state of the world' would happen?

Seems to me that you want to rely too much on people...

...and not enough one God.

 

[Mink57]

I’ve been thinking about it, and maybe what you’re really asking is this:

“Perhaps you’re wondering why I even agree to work for the market wage at all, when that wage is so low that you can’t afford five children?”

If that’s what you mean, then tell me: what’s the alternative?
Refuse and starve to death?

My goodness! Talk about black or white thinking!!!

Seems to me that MOST people live in the 'in-between' world. Not rich. Have bills. But not poor either. Not starving (not an insult to those what actually ARE starving).

Just a thought but...I'm sure you probably have a few friends who got married and had kids in the 'state the world is in'.

Maybe ask them WHY they did it...KNOWING that the world isn't that great?

And ask them with an OPEN MIND, and not someone who would condemn them for doing so....

 

[amigo de christo]

Just to let you know that I DID read the above replies.
Members are not responding to you because YOU do not respond to THEM.
You're not paying attention to what the replies are.
You're a mad person, lashing out at everyone.

And I did not label you what you have listed.
You might not comprehend English well.
I said you SOUND like an atheist.
I never called you PART OF THE PROBLEM.
And I never said you're part of Europe's upheaval.

I SAID that it sounds like you entered legally - so no problem.

And, just to clarify for those reading along...
I SAID IMMIGRATION IS A BIG PROBLEM and I explained why.

I NEVER stated that EVERY migrant is a problem.

And I NEVER said anything about any Ukrainian nurses.

And I will not be responding to your posts...
just wanted to clarify the above for the readers who might have missed my posts to you
and YOU are smearing ME with comments I NEVER made.

just wait till you hear
what the all inclusive ecumenical generation will soon call
the few YET THE TRUE sheep , who darn sure didnt conform to its false love .
Just wait .
but for a preview lets just say i have already been even labeled an anti christ
, mostly a hater who knows not GOD or HIS LOVE , even a satanist .
been banned more times than i can count FROM christain sites
it aint didly doo to me . You dont see me running to mods an d etc every time someone
says one little thing about me .
I could give a rip less what folks say about me. CEPT for this one thing , I weep for them
and ONLY wish they would repent FOR TH EIR OWN sakes . not mine .
By grace i have come to the mindset and understanding that men like me , sheep like me , whether man or woman ,
WE GOING to be hated and worse , BY MUCH OF CHRISTENDOM TOO .
But you wont hear me whining about it . I EMBRACE IT as only a badge of honor .
DO you realize what i just said .
Our prescious elites who decieve this people , FEAR that and they will end men like this .
WHY do they fear it . Because a man willing to suffer and to lose all for JESUS sake
IS a man THEY WILL NEVER CONTROL .
its why we have been made to look so darn dangerous to this sold out lukewarm people . WHO honestly
dont give a rip that JESUS has b een trod u nder foot . ALL they desire is their best life now
and the man who can give them that . WELL LOOK out is all i can say .
cause EVEN ADOLF appeared as a man with a great solution , that had he died before world war two
MANY historians agree HE WOULD have gone down as HITLER the great . NOT THE MONSTER .
HOPE IN T HIS WORLD and in these govts , in man and their solutions . WELL Lets just say IT WONT BODE WELL at all .

 

[amigo de christo]

Just to let you know that I DID read the above replies.
Members are not responding to you because YOU do not respond to THEM.
You're not paying attention to what the replies are.
You're a mad person, lashing out at everyone.

And I did not label you what you have listed.
You might not comprehend English well.
I said you SOUND like an atheist.
I never called you PART OF THE PROBLEM.
And I never said you're part of Europe's upheaval.

I SAID that it sounds like you entered legally - so no problem.

And, just to clarify for those reading along...
I SAID IMMIGRATION IS A BIG PROBLEM and I explained why.

I NEVER stated that EVERY migrant is a problem.

And I NEVER said anything about any Ukrainian nurses.

And I will not be responding to your posts...
just wanted to clarify the above for the readers who might have missed my posts to you
and YOU are smearing ME with comments I NEVER made.

if we think hitler did much damage .
If we think that mao did much damgage .
JUST WAIT til we see what is about to rise . And just like its anti christ interfaith solution
It will come in the name of love , of peace , of unity and common ground .
But reader beware . For in its heart was never the desire for the good of humanity
only their destruction .
and it uses men to do its ag enda , men and women who too can say WE do this for the good of humanity and the world .
BUT Indeed it was done for ONLY POWER and CONTROL .
And sadly a whole heap of christendom are just in love with its solution
to unify and be as one
And they will be okay with its solution to rid this earth of all that conformed not .
Have i ever said WE BEING DECIEVED and that the most dangerous wolf is the one claoked in wool .
WELL allow me to say it ag ain . WE BEEN DUPED BIG TIME by this ecumenical harlot
and the love of said harlot . SOON E VERY MAN WOMAN and child
will heed its call as one , its solution as one , for world peace n safety . BUT DO RMEMBER ITS THE DEVIL .
SO i would not heed it .