Is God Magnanimous? - (as opposed to tyrannical)

[Lizbeth]

Where did you get the idea that your scriptures supersede mine?
I have been very clear that the three biblical doctrines of the final judgement are all contradictory.
I forget whether you favor Damnationism (the forever burning hell) or Annihilationism. (the wicked are destroyed)
But both of those are contradictory as well.

I see, so you admit those Rom 9 scripture contradict your understanding of other scrips.

Scripture doesn't contradict scripture (because God doesn't contradict Himself)............once we understand and rightly divide them. If we see contradiction it's because there is something we aren't understanding correctly because we do not have the mind of Christ on the subject. And His mind is a spiritual mind, with spiritual understanding, not the carnal mind with it's inability to perceive spiritual things.

1Co 2:10-16

But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

 

[St. SteVen]

Scripture doesn't contradict scripture (because God doesn't contradict Himself)

All three biblical doctrines of the final judgement are in contradiction.
- the forever burning hell is in contradiction with Annihilationism. (the wicked destroyed)
- Both are in contradiction to all being saved. (universalism)

 

[Wrangler]

Maybe because you said "no wonder I don't trust the Bible"?

This begs the question of what does @St. SteVen trust?

 

[St. SteVen]

Yes, God is the Boss. It's his universe; we're just living in it. What is it about this that causes you to bristle?

Tell them what you believe about the Trinity. Thanks.

 

[Jack]

This begs the question of what does @St. SteVen trust?

I've asked STV several times. ZERO answer! He doesn't seem to like answering simple questions. I've asked him several. No answers!

 

[Lizbeth]

- If God is omnipotent and omniscient, then he chose to confuse his followers with the Bible and isn't omnibenevolent.
- If God is omnipotent and omnibenevolent, then he failed to realize his followers would be confused by the Bible and isn't omniscient.
- If God is omniscient and omnibenevolent, then he knew the Bible would confuse his followers but he couldn't do any better, then he isn't omnipotent.

No, He doesn't confuse, but He TESTS us........do we have the Spirit to be able to understand? are we willing to believe the truth? do we love the truth? or do we only believe what the carnal mind and flesh wants to believe and what feels and seemeth right to us? And also there is the matter of growth and of paying the price to "buy the truth". If we are confused over anything - and we may be confused at times along the way - that is on us. But if we actually will SEEK the LORD for understanding and wisdom He has promised to give it without upbraiding....that means looking to HIM for understanding, not looking to man or to our own mind.

There are things He HIDES from the wise and learned but REVEALS them to little children.......which we must become as little children to enter the kingdom of heaven....that means to trust, believe, rely and depend on our heavenly Father, not on ourselves, or men or churches. This is a spiritual journey for those who have the Spirit and genuine faith. It is not a journey of man's fleshly carnal wisdom and the carnal logical mind of the natural man....which always has a natural tendency to exalt and justify itSELF.

2Co 10:3-5

For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh.

For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds,

casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ,

 

[Lizbeth]

What is it about those scriptures that get your attention Lizbeth? Is it the idea that God kills and gives life, hates and loves?...arbitrarily?.....because he is the Boss?

What gets my attention is that it directly addresses and very clearly answers some of the things that are being said here.

But He is the Boss,, ie, the Lord God Almighty, and that is the whole point. Sovereign ruler and reigning King over everything that is. Until we lower and humble our SELVES, bow down and worship Him as such, we are not rightly relating to Him as GOD.

 

[Wrangler]

No, He doesn't confuse, but He TESTS us

@Lizbeth, you are very wise. Being tested is seen as oppression and tyranny to those who wilt under the slightest pressure.

 

[Jack]

What gets my attention is that it directly addresses and very clearly answers some of the things that are being said here.

But He is the Boss,, ie, the Lord God Almighty, and that is the whole point. Sovereign ruler and reigning King over everything that is. Until we lower and humble our SELVES, bow down and worship Him as such, we are not rightly relating to Him as GOD.

Isn't it amazing that several here think they can tell God what to do?

 

[amigo de christo]

What gets my attention is that it directly addresses and very clearly answers some of the things that are being said here.

But He is the Boss,, ie, the Lord God Almighty, and that is the whole point. Sovereign ruler and reigning King over everything that is. Until we lower and humble our SELVES, bow down and worship Him as such, we are not rightly relating to Him as GOD.

and what i say to one i say to all , Satan is highly clever indeed .
He knows exactly how to feed the flesh and hearts of man the very lie and lies
to make them as THE GOD and not humble TO THE GOD but rather serving this other god who has come claoked
in wool .
So long as folks continue to hope and to trust , to follow and to obey , to put their hopes INTO MEN and THE EARTHERN KINGDOMS
into politics and who knows what else the churches do teach
THEY REMAIN the blind , hollering we SEE but cannot see their foot is IN THE SNARE and that it is for their destruction only .
Many bow down to the god of self .
I shall become as
I shall be as
But never knowing and unable to see WHY it was written
CURSED IS THE MAN WHOSE HOPE BE IN MAN . BLESSED BE THE MAN WHOSE HOPE BE IN GOD , IN CHRIST .

 

[Wrangler]

Isn't it amazing that several here think they can tell God what to do?

Babes in Christ. Still drinking milk when they should be eating meat.

This is why I stayed away all year. Debating elementary points with those who use their "questions" to not get on with serving God, actually reaching out to people and advance the Great Commission, refuse to work, to give food to the hungry, water to the thirsty, refuse to visit those in hospital or prison, extend grace, reflect the love of Christ.

While they lament God is not as magnanimous as they believe he should be, they don't hold themselves to that standard one little bit.

 

[Lizbeth]

All three biblical doctrines of the final judgement are in contradiction.
- the forever burning hell is in contradiction with Annihilationism. (the wicked destroyed)
- Both are in contradiction to all being saved. (universalism)

What "you" are seeing as contradiction is resolvable. Just because "you" can't resolve those scrips doesn't mean they are not resolvable. "You" are not the measure of truth. (nor are any of us...that's why we always need the LORD to resolve what might appear on the surface to be contradictory)

 

[amigo de christo]

Isn't it amazing that several here think they can tell God what to do?

Seeing many have omitted the severity of GOD and have preached even a false goodness
YEAH , i would for sure say many sure do think they can TELL GOD what to do .
Oh GOD , they say , REMOVE THY LAKE OF FIRE , make it not apply , make it not real
preach to us a broad path with a good end .
Many do call GOD a liar . May i suggest that not once be done by the lips of any sheep .
Rather let us a children simply BELEIVE what is written .
Not being as the many who rather heap and twist things to suit their own ears
and to please their own flesh , and to bow b efore the ONE who did this first in heaven and was cast out .
THERE is a true Kingdom wherein the sheep who Beleived in and did Beleive GOD CHRIST .
But just as real there is enternal damnation . A lake of fire . For all who did deny HIM .

 

[Jack]

Seeing many have omitted the severity of GOD and have preached even a false goodness
YEAH , i would for sure say many sure do think they can TELL GOD what to do .
Oh GOD , they say , REMOVE THY LAKE OF FIRE , make it not apply , make it not real
preach to us a broad path with a good end .
Many do call GOD a liar . May i suggest that not once be done by the lips of any sheep .
Rather let us a children simply BELEIVE what is written .
Not being as the many who rather heap and twist things to suit their own ears
and to please their own flesh , and to bow b efore the ONE who did this first in heaven and was cast out .
THERE is a true Kingdom wherein the sheep who Beleived in and did Beleive GOD CHRIST .
But just as real there is enternal damnation . A lake of fire . For all who did deny HIM .

Makes me wonder about the name of this forum. Unorthodox / Bible attackers ...

 

[amigo de christo]

What "you" are seeing as contradiction is resolvable. Just because "you" can't resolve those scrips doesn't mean they are not resolvable. "You" are not the measure of truth. (nor are any of us...that's why we always need the LORD to resolve what might appear on the surface to be contradictory)

LOOK at his langague . LOOK at it . IT IS DARN obvious HE learned what is known as DECONSTRUCTIONSIM .
Ask HIM and you will see . LOOK at the lanaguage he uses .
But you go , you ask him if he did . See what he says to you .
I see this very simliar language and that langauge is HOW they broke down the chuches from within
and reformed them into a letus just have unity and common ground .

 

[amigo de christo]

@Lizbeth, you are very wise. Being tested is seen as oppression and tyranny to those who wilt under the slightest pressure.

as is correction my friend . iT too is seen as oppression , tyranny , judgmental , hateful , TO those who desire to remain IN SIN .

 

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:
All three biblical doctrines of the final judgement are in contradiction.
- the forever burning hell is in contradiction with Annihilationism. (the wicked destroyed)
- Both are in contradiction to all being saved. (universalism)

What "you" are seeing as contradiction is resolvable. Just because "you" can't resolve those scrips doesn't mean they are not resolvable. "You" are not the measure of truth. (nor are any of us...that's why we always need the LORD to resolve what might appear on the surface to be contradictory)

It's not rocket science.
Do those in hell burn forever or are they completely destroyed?
The Bible supports both views.

 

[quietthinker]

Yes, God is the Boss. It's his universe; we're just living in it. What is it about this that causes you to bristle?

God's 'bossness' so to speak is not the superimposition that man project onto him.
It is the superimposition, the one which many falsely claim is the real deal, which makes me bristle.

Even in the face of his incarnation, his sojourn, his submission to being murdered and his resurrection, he is tarred with the attributes of the devil.

 

[quietthinker]

What gets my attention is that it directly addresses and very clearly answers some of the things that are being said here.

But He is the Boss,, ie, the Lord God Almighty, and that is the whole point. Sovereign ruler and reigning King over everything that is. Until we lower and humble our SELVES, bow down and worship Him as such, we are not rightly relating to Him as GOD.

Do you think God wants servants or friends?

 

[ProDeo]

1 Timothy 4:10 NIV
That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God,
who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.

I wonder what Paul meant when he added the mysterious and especially of those who believe.

BTW, you forgot to quote the IMO strongest evidence for Universalism :

Jes 45:23 By myself I have sworn; from my mouth has gone out in righteousness a word that shall not return: ‘To me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear allegiance.’

Filipp 2:9 Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name,
Filipp 2:10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
Filipp 2:11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Wish it were true.

I can not know for sure, not in this life.